Taper help

[[or...]]

Hi OregonLady. I’m curious how you are doing? Which taper method did you choose and how is that going for you? I hope well. Give me an update when you can, and I’m crossing my fingers for you!

 

I'm doing ok, more mental/emotional issues, ups and downs or windows/waves so they say.  I have not gone down again as only yesterday I learned how to make my little, cheaper scale work for me, at least until I get really low in my taper.  I'm dry-cutting as I tried out the water and it isn't for me at this point.  I feel more secure using the scale.  Seems to go better for the anxiety I get over even the easiest video I've followed with the water.  I also found out I don't want to try and afford liquid 'script either.  I heard the liquid is not accurate, or I should say doesn't match up with the tablet mg.  Just too overwhelming for me to get too fancy.

 

Thanks much for checking in on me though, was very nice to see this morning  Denise

[[or...]]

Good morning, Bob!

 

I am new, I have been reading your posts.  You are definitely a guy I need on my team.  I was hoping you could help me with a simple taper plan.  In my signature you will see what I am on.  I do not take any other medications and I do not drink alcohol or take street drugs.  I am 53 yrs. old and a wife, mother, business owner.  I really got myself into a pickle taking this medication from a pdoc who assured me I could easily just stop!  I advised doc I want to stop; I have an appointment coming up in June.  I would like to request .25mg tablets.  I currently have broken up all my 1mg tablets into .5mg.  Any advice is greatly appreciated, I would like to go slow so I can continue to work through this process.  I am well aware of the hell in front of me, but all this great information has me prepared to ride the waves till I reach the shore. 

Patiently awaiting your response....

 

Just saying hello Fiona, and ask you if you've checked out the micro-tapers?  That's what I'll be starting possibly today if I can weigh out my first cut and feel secure about the dosage, a dry cut by the way using a small scale I was taught how to use from directions (tricks to use) on this forum.  If you decide to do it that way, I can point you to more info, and as you know, I am new too.  Glad to see you communicating with Bob (I think Bob7) and he has been very helpful to me

 

Good to see you and let me know if there's anything I might be able to help with.  Denise 

[[or...]]

formy4kids,

 

You are making a very common mistake.  You are getting stress and anxiety from trying to make a taper plan to cover the future days.  You have all kinds of changing (like every 15 days).  Your mistake is, no one can predict how a taper is going to go.  You put all that work and planning into a taper with so much detail and then when you try it, things will change and all that math must change.

 

You must learn to not worry about the future and every detail of your taper.  It will create anxiety about being perfect and anxiety makes the withdrawal much worst.

 

Instead, pick a simple taper and tell yourself, this is good for a few weeks but I am ok to change it if I need to.  Keep a journal of your dose and symptoms so your can detect when things are going well or poorly and make adjustments.

 

Also remember, all tapers will have withdrawal.  There is no perfect taper. Searching for it will exhaust you. 

 

In my opinion, a daily tiny taper is smoother than a cut and hold.  So yes, I think the water method of 300 ml and just decreasing 1 ml daily is better.

 

 

Boy, you can say that again, I CANNOT agree more Bob7, Excellent post, may be the best one I ever needed to see.  For some reason, I got it in my head I had to have this fancy worksheet with all my numbers figured out and it's just almost sent me over the edge.  Can't think straight, and this is just what I needed to see, maybe my tears, fears and prayers brought me to your post.  I am doing it ALL one day at a time, and I did figure out finally that I will only be cutting 0.3% not 3% of my tablet.  No worksheet, I'll just do it each day.  If I get lucky and grow a few more brain-cell replacements  maybe I can even cut more than one pill at a time.

 

Dry micro-taper, thanks so much for helping so many of us out here.  I can only be encouraged by your ability "to" help others.  I want to be there one day, Denise  

 

 

[[fo...]]

I need a gentle push. Or hope? I realize that starting a taper during a health crises is NOT what is wanted and I so so much don’t want to do that. However, I’m very stuck. I have severe long Covid with neurological symptoms. It knocked out my autonomic nervous system so now I’m battling POTS which they hope will actually improve. I have tremors and neuropathic pain 24/7 and it’s severe. It actually cripples me. I feel the veins in my legs as they ache all the time. I have been told by my physicians and psychiatrist not to taper….that my CNS is too upset by the long Covid. However, I’m not tolerating any meds. I can’t even take a children’s antihistamine. My feeling is that my 1 mg K is not working for me and may be causing these symptoms. I can’t get any support in regards to that. Im getting worse and I’m scared. I don’t want to end up in detox?! My psychiatrist wants to switch me to diazepam stating it may make me feel better. Can someone please help me get unstuck? I have been sitting in this fear for 10 months and could have been about done by now! I’ll never know what’s causing what but I DO know I’m very sick and don’t feel my K right now. Help please.

[[Pa...]]

I don’t feel crossing to Diazepam would be helpful for you at the moment, Clonazepam is fairly long acting and if you’re not dealing with interdose withdrawal, it’s best to avoid the trauma of switching to another benzodiazepine. 

 

If you’re determined to do this, we can help.  What size are your tablets and what is your dosing schedule?

[[fo...]]

I need to start tapering. I do not want to cut and hold and would rather microtaper. I have been on 1 mg K for 12 years. I can’t wrap my head around numbers in any way. I’ve tried. Can someone help me figure out what amt I would come down daily if I want to microtaper and want to keep it between 5-7% monthly? I’m overwhelmed by dry taper and do have a water taper plan but fear my body will reject it. Can anyone help? Thank you! 

[[or...]]

I think you've picked an excellent percentage per month, and along the way, you can always cut a bit more if you find you are stable.  I am doing what you are at minus 3% about every 2 weeks.  I am doing so well, and I took 1 mg of Clonazepam for 35 years, talk about tolerance wd, I know now I had wd long before I realized

I can show you how I do my taper, basically.  I cut more than the fellow in the video, and I cut only by weight.  I cut .003 every 2 weeks which equals right at about 6% per month. My way is simple for me, but I tried 2 other tapers, actually 4 if I count the CT  years ago, and a "too fast"taper 2 Summers ago.

Here's the video, and I'm here if you need more help, or others more experienced will be chiming it, we all help each other, DeniseThe guy in the video, and I as well, just go by weight as I mentioned, but later you can convert it to a percentage and I can show you how to do that as well, if needed

 

[[or...]]

Btw, I found the cheapest scale I bought works as well as the scale in video.  If you can't get a scale, let us know as well, so we can help you other ways Denise PS it just seems scales, among all other aspects of tapers, are unique to each person although I do know this one the guy is using is popular, about 25 bucks on amazon.

[[he...]]

Check out the "History" section of my profile to links for a nail file, pill splitter, and an analytical scale (if you have the money to spend). This particular pill splitter is a lifesaver (and a time saver).

[[fo...]]

Oh my! thank you! Oregon lady, I too am from Oregon! Hmmm I wonder if we are near one another? 
I did buy a Gemini 20 scale. My husband helped me with that and will be doing the filing etc. I’m on month 10 of horrible long Covid. My symptoms, though, have led me to wonder what is long Covid and what is sudden w/d. I had a psychiatrist tell me yesterday that long Covid “scrambled my brain” which I know it sure feels like it but it was a little harsh to hear. It definitely changed my neurotransmitters and this neuropathic pain, neck tightness, etc etc seems like maybe tolerance w/d? 
So you cut .003 every 2 weeks regardless of weight of the pill? (Sorry I’m overwhelmed).  You were so kind to help and send the video. At 6% a month starting at 1 mg K how long do you think this will take you? I’m SO relieved to hear it’s going ok. This is my first ever taper. 

[[or...]]

so sorry I didn't get an alert you had posted @[fo...] I know I didn't press the "notify" or "follow topic".

I am from Winston Oregon, born and raised there basically.  I've been in Northern CA for almost 8 years, but consider myself "always" an Oregonian   I've actually been trying to get moved back there, but slowed down the search for a place when I started my taper 5 months ago.

Sounds you've had a rough time, very rough, but you sound very good and so glad you are considering the taper.  I was a basket-case when I got here in March, but people here have really helped me when I had no one else around me that could understand. @[he...]is an excellent person and helped me from day 1, he's posted above so hope you saw that  

Yes, and the way you do your pills weight that I learned anyway, just for accuracy, is to take 10 pills and weigh them, then divide that weight by 10.  My TEVA brand of Clonazepam weigh an average of .170.  I'll help you step by step when you are ready to try it.  We could use the chat here for "real time" help maybe

Some of my info is in About Me on my profile, below the text is a short history on using the C, and my 5 months (approximate) taper if you want to look at that. It would be good if you keep track on paper to start with, and also do a little profile on when you started the benzo, and anything else that would help all of us help you along   Easy does it, and stick on BB, I believe it to be a life-saver as we do need doctors, but some sadly are not up on the personal experience folks here have had.

Since my taper has just been 5 months but if I stick with 6% I am figuring 16 to 17 months, but remember, everyone is different, so I am just going by how I feel, if I feel very good, and stable, I go ahead and make another cut, if I don't I hold longer, so far that is working great.  But I want you to read about others that have gone before us.  So we'll see if we can get more attention to your post, but they too will need you to fill in a little bit about yourself in the About Me.  They were able to help me faster knowing where I was coming from with 35 years of 1 mg of C, and some of my history like a Cold Turkey I did many years ago, and the time I was tapered too fast by a doctor

Hope to see you soon, I am kind of groggy right now but really wanted to get back to you, and you are not alone ok Denise

[[fo...]]

oregonlady I would love some help in knowing your taper plan and how this works. At 3% every 2 weeks I find it comes out to a ridiculously long time but I don’t understand dry tapers. I don’t know this new forum setup yet. If there is a way to chat I would love that? I’m desperately needing a plan in place. We are on the same drug and dose and seems like we are aiming for the same percentage decrease. I’m sorry I don’t know how to maneuver around this site. Thank you 

[[fo...]]

I need to start tapering. I do not want to cut and hold and would rather microtaper. I have been on 1 mg K for 12 years. I can’t wrap my head around numbers in any way. I’ve tried. Can someone help me figure out what amt I would come down daily if I want to dry microtaper and want to keep it between 5-7% monthly? I’m overwhelmed by dry taper and do have a water taper plan but fear my body will reject it so I want a dry microtaper in place. Can anyone help? Thank you! (I’ve posted before and had help from Oregonlady but I don’t know how to find her again. Trying to learn this new forum and in a quandary. 

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[fo...],

I believe you posed the same question on another thread the other day, received some good feedback and covered most of the pertinent information; however, it appears the conversation was not completed.  Also, try your best to stay engaged on one "taper planning & adjustment" thread.  This will allow members to give you the most accurate, up-to-date and nonredundant information.

There is more to unpack to get you started:

1) What is your current dosing schedule and amount (ie. .5mg tablet 9am / .5mg tablet 9pm)?

2) What is the brand, strength and average weight of your tablets (ie. Teva .5mg tablets average weight should be .170 on your GEM20 scale)?

[[fo...]]

Well I’m really sorry. I’m doing my best. This is a brand new lay out for me, I’m in excruciating pain, I am bedridden and afraid so I reached out. I tried my best. Sometimes that’s all we can do! 
Yes I said that Oregonlady was very helpful. She said she would answer any questions but I’m uncertain how to  find her again. 
I take 5 mg K twice daily. Once at 8 am and once at 3 pm. It’s Teva brand. I want to go slow considering I’m entirely unstable and unable to really function right now. I can’t stabilize. Tried to increase slightly and it made Mr worse. Something happened with long Covid and my neurotransmitters just aren’t the same. I’d like to learn a dry taper that is a microtaper and if that doesn’t exist…..ok. 
If I need to learn something different immediately I’ll certainly try. 

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[fo...],

No need to be sorry.  My intent was certainly not to make you feel bad.  If I did, I sincerely apologize and so sorry you are in so much pain and bedridden.  I just want you to be able to receive the best feedback and input that you are able.  If you need help accessing your tapering thread going forward, you can access your posts under your profile or also search the posts under “taper planning and adjustment” and find it there.  Worst case shoot me a PM, and I will help you locate it.

With that said, I am off to bed for the night to take my son to school tomorrow.  I too am tapering and sleep is not a good subject for me.

I would hold your dose steady based on your reply for now and let’s continue this conversation.  I am more than happy to help you devise a strategy to taper.  

[[or...]]

Hi @[fo...], I know it's hard to navigate a new forum, but you'll catch on, and I just realized you here so here I am to explain how I do my taper.

I do a dry taper from my 1mg tablet.  I first want to tell you what I learned from others, and wait until I feel stable before I start a new taper.  I am so sorry I don't remember how long you have been on just 1 mg.  Will you let me know so we can talk about how long you've been having bad wd symptoms, and also what did you taper down to the 1mg from, in other words, how much was your original dose ;)?  I'll be here, Denise

[[or...]]

1 hour ago, [[f...] said:

Well I’m really sorry. I’m doing my best. This is a brand new lay out for me, I’m in excruciating pain, I am bedridden and afraid so I reached out. I tried my best. Sometimes that’s all we can do! 
Yes I said that Oregonlady was very helpful. She said she would answer any questions but I’m uncertain how to  find her again. 
I take 5 mg K twice daily. Once at 8 am and once at 3 pm. It’s Teva brand. I want to go slow considering I’m entirely unstable and unable to really function right now. I can’t stabilize. Tried to increase slightly and it made Mr worse. Something happened with long Covid and my neurotransmitters just aren’t the same. I’d like to learn a dry taper that is a microtaper and if that doesn’t exist…..ok. 
If I need to learn something different immediately I’ll certainly try. 

 

Just now, [[o...] said:

Hi @[fo...], I know it's hard to navigate a new forum, but you'll catch on, and I just realized you here so here I am to explain how I do my taper.

I do a dry taper from my 1mg tablet.  I first want to tell you what I learned from others, and wait until I feel stable before I start a new taper.  I am so sorry I don't remember how long you have been on just 1 mg.  Will you let me know so we can talk about how long you've been having bad wd symptoms, and also what did you taper down to the 1mg from, in other words, how much was your original dose ;)?  I'll be here, Denise

Maybe we can ask the Admins to join the threads, not sure if that works on this forum-type but if you have the link to the other thread could you link it here @[Fa...] ? That would be great, then I can ask the Admins if they might agree to join them, if it can be done   Just an idea is all, Denise

[[fo...]]

Thank you both. Oregonlady, my original dose of K is 1 mg. I’ve been on that same dose for 12 years. I’ve never  increased it and haven’t yet lowered it. I only started having symptoms since being diagnosed with long Covid 10 months ago. One of the main injuries of long Covid is setting us in fight or flight by damaging our autonomic nervous system. It’s been a nightmare. I’m on month 10 but only worsening and I realized I really don’t feel my clonazepam since Covid. Ive had 2 psychiatrists tell me oh don’t taper it’s not good when you are so unstable….but I can’t GET stable if my brain is fighting the clonazepam. My symptoms match tolerance w/d but also long Covid. But at this point since it’s worsening I feel I don’t feel safe continuing to take it if in tolerance. So I want to slowly and safely taper. 

[[or...]]

Ok, first I want to tell you I was offline quite a bit, so sorry I wasn't able to get back to you earlier, but sometimes I feel it's about the "timing", and this "time" your post on the Long Covid is sinking into my benzo brain.  Your symptoms could be from Covid, but also from Tolerance Withdrawal.

I am at a total loss to help with this, other than for me to see some of the other feedback you got.  Do you know where your other thread is for-my-kids?  I feel sure that someone on here may be able to share, maybe a similar experience.  I am tapering off my 1 mg, but I didn't have any super bad things going on with me, like you have.  I want to help you, but my best advice is that we get some others here, their information.  We need to see the feedback you got on the other thread.  Let me see if I can find it, and then we can flag others with much more experience ok?  I don't want you to worry, Denise

[[or...]]

Ok @[Fo...], this thread you started before, I found it   It looks like they shared with you a normal, slow taper, so I guess it's ok even if you are just recovering, or getting over the Covid.

I do a dry taper, and I saw some info on a liquid taper.  So I'll let you go back and read the suggestions on the other thread, and then you can let us know what "type" of taper you want to try.  I guess all I can add is that you may have to tough it out, or ask your doctor what they think is best to get you through this.  I really don't know how I would handle it, because I've never run into the circumstances you are in.  Just keep posting here, or the other thread and I'll find your posts.  Just keep in touch here, and I will read more of your other thread as well, DenisePS it will be good to maybe get these 2 threads joined so folks know all that's been said so far

https://benzobuddies.org/topic/270052-help/#comment-3440998

[[Fa...]]

@[or...] I've attached the thread to which I was referring.  It is a more recent thread that @[fo...] had started a few days ago in which it seems she is leaning towards a dry micro taper.  I think this is a great plan by the way.  I have witnessed 3-4 active members walk off using this method with success in the past 10 months since joining this wonderful group of people.  @[Pa...] may be able to help merge these threads; however, it is not the end of the world at this point.

@[fo...], I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time with long covid and dealing with tolerance to clonazepam.  Most members (minus a fortunate few) who find this site are already experiencing tolerance symptoms and/or their respective benzodiazepine has caused an injury (hence the search and joining of this community).  It was certainly the case for me as I trusted my doctor and was not given informed consent prior to starting the medication. 

May I ask you a few more questions?  How did you choose 8am and 3pm for your dosing schedule?  What are your most troubling symptoms?  Is sleep not an issue?   

 

[[or...]]

Here's how I am tapering, and I will put the video I followed except he did an "everyday" taper unless he didn't feel stable so he would hold (listened to his body, wd sxs or lack thereof )  That's what I do.  I use a small jeweler scale, most people seem to like the Gemini 20 but I have another type that is working for me, not sure it's still for sale on amazon, but good price on Gemini 20.  I'll add a picture of my kit I use, I made it up, didn't order anything but scale   I cut just like the guy in the video, except I cut a bit more that equals 3% each 2 weeks or so, and I write it down just as he does.  He goes by weight of pill like I do, but later I calculate to see how much percentage I am at

Here's the video on one type of taper called Dry taper: https://youtu.be/dkY1pU0ZOXE?list=PLwZBGDeIeol9PliAftYo7Sw_8b_2XN2z3

my video I just made is taking it's time uploading to Youtube, so I'll put it in as soon as is uploaded, a link to it Denise  PS the one above is really pretty identical to how I do it though, just my cut is bigger, and I hold longer I suspect.

[[or...]]

50 minutes ago, [[F...] said:

@[or...] I've attached the thread to which I was referring.  It is a more recent thread that @[fo...] had started a few days ago in which it seems she is leaning towards a dry micro taper.  I think this is a great plan by the way.  I have witnessed 3-4 active members walk off using this method with success in the past 10 months since joining this wonderful group of people.  @[Pa...] may be able to help merge these threads; however, it is not the end of the world at this point.

@[fo...], I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time with long covid and dealing with tolerance to clonazepam.  Most members (minus a fortunate few) who find this site are already experiencing tolerance symptoms and/or their respective benzodiazepine has caused an injury (hence the search and joining of this community).  It was certainly the case for me as I trusted my doctor and was not given informed consent prior to starting the medication. 

May I ask you a few more questions?  How did you choose 8am and 3pm for your dosing schedule?  What are your most troubling symptoms?  Is sleep not an issue?   

Thank you Faith Love and hope, I am doing very well on the dry taper, as well.  Also glad you flagged @[Pa...] I did forget to mention that after my 5 months @[fo...] I'm estimating maybe 10 more months, but I just go by how I feel, really don't set a dead-line to shoot for.  I think my anxiety would be more apt to shoot up to 10 on the Richter Scale so I'll just go with wd sxs, or lack

there of   Thank you also @[Fa...] for looks like, the right thread to join, I had found another just Posted a "Help".  Anyway, we're both here now with @[fo...] and others as well Denise  PS I need to add that the way I think about how long my taper may take, I see what a CT can do to me, won't go there again, and I see what too fast a taper did too me.  I also realize the length of time I was on the drug, which was very, very long, 35 years so I think 15 months is not just the safest length of time, I think it's a blessing I can do this that fast.

[[or...]]

Ok @[fo...] here is the video I made, darn, I said "umm" too many times, lol!!  Anyway I hope this helps you understand how I do it each morning.  Any questions, feel welcome to ask, I know I left out some things, Denise