From clonazepam to diazepam back to clonazepam. Want to taper.

[[Va...]]

I have used clonazepam for around 15 years till 2019 than my psychiatrist switched to 50 mg of diazepam. Tapered that in a year to 12.5 mg, i could not handle the withdrawal so went back to 3 times 0.5 mg clonazepam and 2.5 mg diazepam.

I am a 38 year old male. Have also a burn out. Can not read, tired all the time. Crowded places I can only handle for 5 min. And can not make choose what to do next switch everything to diazepam. And than taper?

What i noticed is that diazepam makes me feel very weak and sleep, but numbes my feeling less.

Clonazepam does make me less sleep but gives some restlessness and agitation and numbs my feeling more.

What should i do.

The doctor said i can choose.

[[pi...]]

Hello Vanja84,

Welcome to Benzo Buddies!  I'm sorry to hear about your taper. To be quite honest, that was a very fast taper from a very large dose of diazepam.

From what I understand you are now taking clonazepam and diazepam concurrently.  I'm not a expert on tapering. I was on a pretty low dose and had a rough taper so hopefully others can offer their experience. However, your comments about diazepam has been noted by others. When I started taking it, crossing from clonazepam, it did make me very tired. It also depressed my mood some. 

You'll have to decide which to taper from and do a slow and careful crossover. They both have relatively long half lives, but clonazepam is much stronger. 

Once you've decided, a slow and sensible taper will allow you to be successful this time.  Reducing no more than 5-10% every 10-14 days is suggested. Some go even slower, adapting to a symptom based taper plan.

Again welcome! Settle in and do some reading, there is a lot of good information here.

pianogirl 

[[Va...]]

Is it possible to keep the 2.5 mg diazepam and cut a quarter pill clonazepam every 2 weeks. 0.125 and cross over when i m at a lower dose. I m afraid if to switch cross over. Because than i m kindling.

[[pi...]]

7 hours ago, [[V...] said:

Is it possible to keep the 2.5 mg diazepam and cut a quarter pill clonazepam every 2 weeks. 0.125 and cross over when i m at a lower dose. I m afraid if to switch cross over. Because than i m kindling.

Hello again,
 

I believe you need to taper just one medication at a time, I think that is what you intend, correct?

I would not simply cut a quarter of a clonazepam pill. This is a very string medication. I know from experience, trying it myself, that simply cutting quarters is far too much to reduce at one time.

Have you read the Ashton Manual? It gives good information about a smooth crossover from one benzo to another? 

[[pi...]]

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

[[Va...]]

I have read the manual, but is it possible to keep the diazepam. And how should i taper clonazepam.

[[Va...]]

I have read the manual, but is it possible to keep the diazepam. And how should i taper clonazepam.

Without crossing over to diazepam, diazepam makes me very sleepy.

[[Pa...]]

Is it your hope to eventually be free of both medications, or are you looking to find a way to stay on one of them?  Sorry, just need a bit of clarification. 

[[Va...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

Is it your hope to eventually be free of both medications, or are you looking to find a way to stay on one of them?  Sorry, just need a bit of clarification.

No i want to get rid of it all. Taper clonazepam and than switch at the last pill to diazepam keep the 2.5 mg so it would be 12.5 mg diazepam and taper from there but what dose reduction, should i do the doctor says i know more about the tapering than him.. wanted to do quarters but heard that s a too big cut.

[[Va...]]

Also i take diazepam every other day do monday wednesday friday.

Because i want to cross over but afraid. I notice that on the day that i don t take diazepam i more restless.

And i did to cross over and back so i m afraid that if i do a cross over again i will damage my brain more. And it s obsession the choise... diazepam or clonazepam.. maybe i should just switch. I will use the Ashton manual but make the cross over a little faster. Because the combination will make me extra drowsy.

[[pi...]]

Taking diazepam on alternate days may be the cause of your "restless" feelings.  The body needs a constant amount of benzo in the bloodstream, otherwise you get symptoms like you describe.  If it were me, I would find the lowest possible dose of diazepam to take every day and stabilize. Once that is done, I would stay on the diazepam while I taper the clonazepam. After that is completed, I would slowly taper the clonazepam.

[[Va...]]

55 minutes ago, [[p...] said:

Taking diazepam on alternate days may be the cause of your "restless" feelings.  The body needs a constant amount of benzo in the bloodstream, otherwise you get symptoms like you describe.  If it were me, I would find the lowest possible dose of diazepam to take every day and stabilize. Once that is done, I would stay on the diazepam while I taper the clonazepam. After that is completed, I would slowly taper the clonazepam.

Should i ask my doctor for a liquid version or does it work different? 

I would even cut the first clonazepam pill with 0.125 mg every two weeks or is that too fast. So 2 mg of diazepam daily and taper clonazepam?

[[Pa...]]

I don't believe there is any reason to switch to liquid Valium at this time, you can take a look at that down the road if cutting your pills gets too cumbersome or you wish to make smaller reductions.  Members have reported a difference in how they feel when first crossing to liquid so they'll typically hold for a time without making any reductions until they acclimate.  Changes we make to dose, form, time and how often will typically need time to adjust.

You mentioned you've been taking the diazepam every other day, could you instead take 1 or 1.5 mg every day to see if you can level that part out?  I feel that would be wise before you begin to taper the clonazepam. 

 

Given your previous taper experience, I feel doing this slowly and methodically will put you in a better starting position to begin your taper from clonazepam.  I also feel that .125 will be too much, we can help you make smaller reductions.

 

 

[[Va...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

I don't believe there is any reason to switch to liquid Valium at this time, you can take a look at that down the road if cutting your pills gets too cumbersome or you wish to make smaller reductions.  Members have reported a difference in how they feel when first crossing to liquid so they'll typically hold for a time without making any reductions until they acclimate.  Changes we make to dose, form, time and how often will typically need time to adjust.

You mentioned you've been taking the diazepam every other day, could you instead take 1 or 1.5 mg every day to see if you can level that part out?  I feel that would be wise before you begin to taper the clonazepam. 

Given your previous taper experience, I feel doing this slowly and methodically will put you in a better starting position to begin your taper from clonazepam.  I also feel that .125 will be too much, we can help you make smaller reductions.

Thnx for the feedback! 

2 years ago i switched from 6 × 0.5 mg to 50 mg valium. Than tapered too fast was on around 12.5 mg diazepam but became more and more tired and switched back to 3 times 0.5 mg clonazepam. It does not calm me down like the previous clonazepam use and the diazepam also i have a burn out. But i want to get rid of the benzo s.

About 4 months ago i wanted to taper so the doctor added 2.5 mg but i became too sedated using both. I think is was more stappen. I would prefer to switch back to diazepam and then just taper it s easier i think, but i will ruin my CNS even more or is it possible?

[[pi...]]

9 minutes ago, [[V...] said:

Thnx for the feedback! 

2 years ago i switched from 6 × 0.5 mg to 50 mg valium. Than tapered too fast was on around 12.5 mg diazepam but became more and more tired and switched back to 3 times 0.5 mg clonazepam. It does not calm me down like the previous clonazepam use and the diazepam also i have a burn out. But i want to get rid of the benzo s.

About 4 months ago i wanted to taper so the doctor added 2.5 mg but i became too sedated using both. I think is was more stappen. I would prefer to switch back to diazepam and then just taper it s easier i think, but i will ruin my CNS even more or is it possible?

It is not advisable to just switch back to taking only diazepam.  That will be like a cold turkey from clonazepam.  Although sedating at first, this usually resolves. When I crossed to diazepam it made me very tired as well, so tired sometimes I feel asleep before the nighttime dose. This didn't last as my system adjusted.

Again, if you wish to taper from diazepam only, I would suggest using the Ashton crossover method. You can try to find the lowest dose possible to avoid too much sedation.

[[Va...]]

2 hours ago, [[p...] said:

It is not advisable to just switch back to taking only diazepam.  That will be like a cold turkey from clonazepam.  Although sedating at first, this usually resolves. When I crossed to diazepam it made me very tired as well, so tired sometimes I feel asleep before the nighttime dose. This didn't last as my system adjusted.

Again, if you wish to taper from diazepam only, I would suggest using the Ashton crossover method. You can try to find the lowest dose possible to avoid too much sedation.

No, i want to taper from them both, especially clonazepam. So i shouldn't do the crossover to diazepam using Ashton manual and that i only have diazepam and taper from there?

[[ia...]]

 

Hi @[Va...]

I want to start by saying, congratulations on your amazing progress with the Diazepam from the 50 mg to 12.5 mg. Even in reinstating the clonazepam, you made some amazing progress with the Diazepam. I've read some of the replies in this post and all are good options. One thing I've learned from this process, is that what works for one person, might not for another. You’re tuned into your symptoms and which medication is causing what symptom – that’s really good.

I was in a similar situation as you - on two medications: Xanax and Diazepam. I was on about 4 mg of Diazepam and .50 mg of Alprazolam. I tapered down on BOTH concurrently for 10 months. I jumped off the Diazepam in June, and I jumped off the Xanax last week. I want you to know that slowly reducing two benzos at one time IS absolutely possible. It is hard. But possible. I had the SAME symptoms as you with the Diazepam. CONSTANTLY tired right around 24 hour mark, I would begin to get just exhausted. I had my fair share of other symptoms just as others have experienced.

Looking back I wish I would have consolidated both meds into the Diazepam and tapered from that only. But I wasn't sure I had enough medication. Diazepam generally* gives people fewer/more tolerable WD symptoms. If this is an option you're considering, I would encourage entertaining this option. Here to support you. Hang in there.

 

[[VE...]]

Can you use milk to taper valium?

 

[[VE...]]

I am currently on 2 mg ativan for a year and am thinking of crossing over to valium to do a taper and quit for good hopefully. Would like to use milk if possible and need to know how much ativan I need to keep taking during crossover . Thank you

[[Pa...]]

19 minutes ago, [[V...] said:

Can you use milk to taper valium?

Yes, members have used milk successfully. Titration - BenzoBuddies Community Forum

[[Pa...]]

18 minutes ago, [[V...] said:

I am currently on 2 mg ativan for a year and am thinking of crossing over to valium to do a taper and quit for good hopefully. Would like to use milk if possible and need to know how much ativan I need to keep taking during crossover . Thank you

If you'll start a thread on the Taper Planning & Adjustment - BenzoBuddies Community Forum we'll be happy to help you work this out. 

[[VE...]]

Thank you I posted there earlier but no reply yet.

[[Va...]]

So do i cross over using the Ashton Manual ? I ve noticed that clonazepam without diazepam make me more talkative and agitated. It numbs more than diazepam.

And on just 3 x 0.5 mg clonazepam was not so balanced.

I see my doctor friday and still have not decided. I m obsessed with the medication. Afraid that i will make a bad a bad decison.

So two options.

Cross over to diazepam ( benefit is tapering only one) Is it dangerous to switch again?

The other option is to keep clonazepam and a small dose of diazepam and using maybe liquid clonazepam?

[[Pa...]]

10 hours ago, [[V...] said:

Thank you I posted there earlier but no reply yet.

My apologies VEGERs, I'll take a look. 

[[Pa...]]

5 hours ago, [[V...] said:

So do i cross over using the Ashton Manual ? I ve noticed that clonazepam without diazepam make me more talkative and agitated. It numbs more than diazepam.

And on just 3 x 0.5 mg clonazepam was not so balanced.

I see my doctor friday and still have not decided. I m obsessed with the medication. Afraid that i will make a bad a bad decison.

So two options.

Cross over to diazepam ( benefit is tapering only one) Is it dangerous to switch again?

The other option is to keep clonazepam and a small dose of diazepam and using maybe liquid clonazepam?

Its not dangerous to cross to Valium and using Ashton to guide you is a good plan if that's the way you're leaning.  Staying on the Clonazepam and Valium could be good too. 

Making mistakes is part of what we have to do to get through this, taper methods and rates need to be adjusted because this is one giant experiment with us as the subjects.  The powers that be have mastered how to get us on the drug but not how to get off of it, so its up to us.

Being obsessed with this is what the drug does to us, it consumes our thinking and our lives and only lets us feel negative emotions, this isn't you and it won't be you when you're off the drug and recovered from the injury you've sustained. 

As for liquid clonazepam, are you talking making your own or using a pharmaceutical?  I don't believe it available in many countries.