Month 13 & intrusive thoughts

[[it...]]

I’m about 13 months off of Temazepam. And I’ve been slowly tapering from 50mg of Zoloft since April 15th. About 10 days ago I dropped from 0.7g on the scale I’m using to taper (which is about 25mg of Zoloft) down to 0.55g .. which I know is a little more than 10%. I’m also going to therapy just about weekly. We’ve been doing PARTS therapy .. or IFS (internal family systems) therapy, to lay the ground work before diving into EMDR. The tools I’ve learned in the PARTS therapy so far have been helpful, however my symptoms all linger on. 
 

My question for you all, when it comes to intrusive thoughts, were/are they the same as whatever thoughts or negative self beliefs led you to use benzos or antidepressants? For me, they’re all the same just exacerbated. Thoughts that I believed I had overcome before even using benzos have all returned. Fear of being alone, fear of abandonment, feeling not good enough - primarily present today because I don’t have the energy to access full cognitive abilities in day to day interactions. So I feel boring or uninteresting, and even the physical pain from the muscle rigidity I have, I feel makes my tone of voice negative very often. My anxiety overthinking these things just compounds it. The anhedonia further reinforces my negative beliefs/intrusive thoughts.

 

have you guys found that therapy is essential to the healing process? Part of me wonders if some of the things we’re unpacking in therapy will naturally fix themselves as my nervous system heals. On the other hand, all of those intrusive thought symptoms mentioned above, began 3 years ago, not long after I finished tapering off Zoloft completely the 1st time (and also before even getting on Temazepam) which also came at a time that I moved 10 hours away from everyone I knew, which forced me to face all of my negative self beliefs head on as I tried to build a new social network, etc. So on this other hand, I wonder if 3 years of being in this state of mind has further engraved these negative self belies and therapy is necessary to replace them with positive beliefs.

I’m feeling more healed than day 1 off of Temazepam, but these last few days I’ve had a big set back. Went to my cousins wedding over the weekend and I’m super happy for her. But seeing her, and all of my close friends starting to get married and have kids, while I tread water over here healing and unable to begin a romantic relationship has been hard. It further reinforces my fear of being alone and abandonment. And it’s sent me full on into a wave that feels like it’s going to be never ending. It makes me wonder if some of us were meant to be on these antidepressants. As I’ve had multiple failed attempts at stopping Zoloft, so I’m uncertain that there’s a possibility of feeling healed. 13 months feels like such a long time too off of Temazepam for it to still be having an effect

[[Br...]]

I'm sorry you're going through all of this.  I can imagine going to your cousin's wedding  brought up a lot of painful issues and triggered a lot of feelings - it's totally conceivable it led to a wave.

If my calculations are right you started your most recent taper off Zoloft about 9 months after you finished your Temazepam taper.  Now it has been 13 months since you stopped Temazepam.  13 months feels like a lot of time but for many of us, recovery from benzos can take longer than that.  What I'm getting at I that your nervous system is likely highly sensitized by both the Temazepam taper and the Zoloft taper.  At this point It may make the most sense to slow down your Zoloft taper.  I know it can be tempting to want to be done with the medication completely but experience has shown us that it's better in the long run to take your time with a cautious taper to allow you nervous system the time it needs to heal.  

Have you checked out http://survivingantidepressants.org ?  It's a very helpful resource for tapering antidepressants.

As for your questions about therapy during tapering & withdrawal I think you're wise to recognize that a lot of the issues we deal with during withdrawal are magnified and distorted so not an accurate representation of our baseline.  On the other hand, assuming you have a withdrawal savvy therapist, I think the support you get as you cope with withdrawal symptoms, and guidance in developing a toolkit of coping techniques,  could be an invaluable part of your recovery.

 

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@[Br...]thank you for the response and acknowledging my pains. Attending the wedding was especially painful because in addition to everyone in my social network getting married/having kids, I recently went through a breakup. One that wouldn’t normally affect me to the degree it has. It’s just hard to try to perceive anything from a “normal baseline” since I’ve been in this heightened state for such a long time.

 

you’re correct on the timeline. If a wave comes after reducing my dose, I’ve been holding for longer than usual. I was reducing at about a 2 week rate, but on the more sensitive reductions I’ve been holding for about a month. I have been on SA as well, I’ve bounced between this forum and that. This may be a question for that forum, but with the low dose I’m at now, could it be possible that slowing the taper will just drag things out longer vs if I were to continue my pace or even stopping altogether at this point? I would estimate I’m currently at ~16mg of Zoloft.

 

my therapist has acknowledged my withdrawals and beliefs that I have “parts” that are triggering my waves and making symptoms worse. I believe her because when im able to implement the tools she’s given me, symptoms such as foggy brain and muscle tension decrease. However, the level of wave I’ve been in for a few days now have proven to be too much for the skills she’s taught me. I guess my concern is that, as we begin EMDR and navigate those childhood memories/traumas, that I won’t be able to heal correctly due to my sensitive nervous system. Maybe I’m wrong.

 

but thank you again for the response. Getting this stuff out and hearing reassurance that this is my sensitive nervous system and not just in my head is very helpful. No one around understands or can relate, which leads to more feeling like this will never end or something is seriously wrong with me

[[Br...]]

Withdrawal is devastating in so many different ways it's astounding.  One of the hardest parts is how isolating it is - nobody who hasn't walked this road can really understand what it's like. The support I got at BB from others who understood made a world of difference for me - I know what you mean about that kind of isolation leading to even more feelings of hopelessness and fear that we are fundamentally damaged.  But the hopelessness & bleak sense of doom are just more lies benzos tell us.  

 

[[Ho...]]

I've struggled with the same thoughts, @itscodyman. I'm at 11 months post-jumping from clonazepam. There is nothing in my life that hasn't been subjected to the most searing, critical and damning judgement. Yes, I've struggled with depression at many times during my life, and only once did I try an antidepressant. Zoloft. It numbed me but it sure did stop the existential pain! After 2.5 years I stopped. Afterwards, I developed RLS and my sleep was horribly damaged. More drugs, more damage and here I am, on very low dose opioids and trying to recover from being given Clonazepam to sleep. 

So I'm glad you're tapering off Zoloft. It makes me happy that you won't get any worse from that.

But back to the salient issue! I've been working hard at being more conscious of my thought life and its direction. Like you, I've noticed that good thinking yields a great result in that it does give you a bit of a lift, and a bit of a lift means a lot to me. However, I can't fully control this with improved thinking no matter how hard I try, and I believe it's because there is a chemical imbalance my body is fighting to re-balance. 

But all the work I do to practice gratitude, mindfully watching things I can enjoy and sitting in them (for as long as I can or want to) and other practices may not be able to provide the big boost I want at the moment, but the effort will yield a great payoff when the time is right.

So in short, I think working on things now won't fix the benzo damage. It may on occasion mitigate it a bit. More importantly, after our recovery kicks in, we'll both be in a much, much better place for all the work that's already been done.

I think you've done a stellar job and am encouraged and deeply impressed by it. Good for you! Keep up the good work! 

[[le...]]

Did you have the intrusive thoughts before taking benzos if so I think therapy would definitely help. Yours sounds more like a lack of confidence, self worth than intrusive thoughts, so therapy sounds way to go.Nothing I have tried helps the intrusive thoughts, mine are totally irrational fears, but I never had any before being forced to cold turkey zopiclone.. But have a very toxic family caused me lot pain over years that I tried block out. Realise it’s all coming out now, and definitely making the thoughts lot worse.Have started therapy for me definitely helping, I found anti depressants withdrawal really hard try looking on surviving antidepressants for advice full of people to give you advice. Like you I compare myself to ‘ normal people”, and makes me envious of them. Haven’t had a holiday in 3 years or been able go out fir the day, so think it’s normal reaction.. But definitely continue the therapy think the nervous system all inter connected, have come to realise past issues never dealt with are a contributing factor in my case. Hope things look up for you. I don’t know much about AD tapering made me feel so ghastly came off them very quickly. Keep up the therapy sounds like it’s helping😄

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@[Br...]i hear you. It’s just hard to perceive a life without this feeling because it’s gone on for so long. And the anxiety depression issues I had in the past, pre benzo. It feels like perception of a life without anxiety, depression and instead happiness and living life to the fullest, as I’ve seen in countless success stories, is something that is difficult to perceive. I can’t remember the last time I was truly happy. And the symptoms I’m dealing with now make it difficult to put the best version of myself out there to meet people and build the life I want. Living with this daily struggle, meanwhile watching everyone else in my life move forward with theirs.

 

sorry for the delayed response. Had a window and was enjoying it by staying out of technology and the internet. Appreciate your acknowledgements and understanding 

[[it...]]

@[Ho...]the Zoloft helped me after first getting on it, but it also numbed and allowed me to avoid the root causes, simply kicking the stone further down the road. Now here I am paying the price. I felt like I didn’t need it anymore in 2020 because I felt really happy and was doing a lot of internal work to build confidence. So I tapered off 100mg within just 2-3 months. It wasn’t until 6 months later after moving across the country and the withdrawal symptoms came on full force. My nervous system was simply still too raw and very easily influenced by my surroundings and life circumstances. I still feel that way today. Things that happen, for example like a small disagreement with a friend, which would’ve never impacted me past 5 minutes in the past, could lead to a wave. And it’s not like I even think about that interaction, but my nervous system is still effected by it. Shoot I even notice the content I digest having an impact. If I watch an intense or drama filled movie, my mood is deeply affected. Zoloft days, I’d just go about my life if I just watched an intense movie. So it’s hard perceiving what that’s like, without the post Zoloft sensitivity. Because it’s been so long ago since I haven’t felt so raw to my surroundings.

 

what do you mean by getting any worse from continuing Zoloft? Just like the numbing aspect of it?

yes I struggle too with controlling the thoughts right now. Some days, no matter how hard I try to control and direct them towards positivity, my brain from the gaba imbalance wants to go to all the things wrong or needing fixed or loneliness on this journey or any other number of things. But, therapy is definitely helping control that. Along with more time away from the benzo. I admire your outlook of all your efforts paying off in time. That attitude is encouraging and can have an impact on others on here.

 

I too think we’ll be in a better spot. Looking back at all the “bad” or perceived bad things that have happened in my life, most of it led to something positive or fulfilling. So this hellacious journey we’re on is equipping us with skills to live a more fulfilling life in the future. To be at peace with ourselves (I truly hope that one day that is the case. I have to keep reminding myself it’s possible). And to help others in various facets of life.

 

appreciate your words of encouragement!

[[it...]]

@[le...]i had some of the thoughts prior to benzos and Zoloft, but not to this degree that I can recall. They were there, but the voice not as loud. So I think the sensitivity from the pharmaceutical drugs has made the thoughts louder, more prominent and harder to mitigate. But to your point, therapy is helping.

 

it sounds like we’ve both had family memories and other memories making our intrusive thoughts worse. I know for me, I’m at a point in my life where the only option is to face them all head on, with therapy, to live a long & happy fulfilling life in the future. No more “medications” to numb the thoughts. Simply because they don’t work anymore for me and I will never subject myself to this hell again.

 

yes I think the nervous system is all interconnected too. I’m realizing we are much more empaths than we may realize!

[[dj...]]

I’m a lot worse off than you but my brain is broken in a lot of different ways, many of them neurological.  If you ever get this bad, you’ll realize without a doubt your brain is playing all sorts of tricks on you.  
 

What I call “intrusive thoughts” are generally messed up stuff.  Dr Jenn was saying a lot of her clients have horrific thoughts - thoughts of violence and sexual stuff.  Like how did those get in there?  Been on this planet for 40 years and never experienced this   
 

But yes, our fears and doom and gloom get exaggerated in this.  I get very OCD at times and get stuck on something and cannot let it go too.  All part of the process.  I’ve been told, by Dr Jenn and others, that they improve pretty naturally in time.  Distraction and staying engaged in healthy things always helps and will get you in a better place.  But, I also know my crappy thoughts and anxiety have very little to do with all my muscle pain, GI issues, toxic naps, chemical/food insensitivities and extreme fatigue.  This is a full scale neurological assault in some people.  
 

This is easier said than done but do your best to stay out of dark places and if you notice yourself having exaggerated, negative thinking, just try and change course with what you’re doing.