How Severe is the Excitotoxic Damage from a CT?

[[se...]]

I cannot find any information on this anywhere.

What extent of the brain dies off? How much are we left with? I pretty much woke up as a different person and have not ever been the same. I have no symptoms left other than cognitive dysfunction.

[[Pa...]]

I've never heard any of the brain dies off, maybe that's why you can't find any information on this.  Of course, not everything is known about these drugs so I'm sure there are areas which haven't been explored.  

Have you seen this? 

 

[[se...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

I've never heard any of the brain dies off, maybe that's why you can't find any information on this.  Of course, not everything is known about these drugs so I'm sure there are areas which haven't been explored.  

Have you seen this? 

 

The connection I'm making is that an excitotoxic storm following a cold turkey would kill neurons. Is this not true. This would fit with the symptoms I had the night before my severe mental decline.

Why else would tapering be recommended if not to prevent neurological damage from excitotoxicity?

I believe I'm not finding data because damage to neurons would be too difficult to find without before and after brain scans (I'm not even sure if there are scans to detect neuron quantity to begin with) but it would make sense with many benzo users having brain lesions or white matter scars.

 

I'm trying to find out just what level of damage there is in this way. There has to be some as nothing else makes sense.

[[Pa...]]

How long has it been since you quit cold turkey?  It took me 14 months to recover from quitting 6-10 mg of Klonopin a day cold turkey.  

Its recommended people taper to minimize symptom severity and to allow the brain to recover as they reduce the drug.  Those who cold turkey may suffer more intensely in the beginning but I believe we have just as much chance at recovery as anyone else.  

[[se...]]

12 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

How long has it been since you quit cold turkey?  It took me 14 months to recover from quitting 6-10 mg of Klonopin a day cold turkey.  

Its recommended people taper to minimize symptom severity and to allow the brain to recover as they reduce the drug.  Those who cold turkey may suffer more intensely in the beginning but I believe we have just as much chance at recovery as anyone else.  

4.5 months ago. I stopped improving cognitively.

[[Pa...]]

You're still very early in recovery, its normal to feel this way and common to feel hopeless and stuck.  How are you measuring your cognition abilities, are you keeping good records of your symptoms and their severity?  I wish I would have done that because my poor sick brain kept telling me I wasn't improving but I was, I just couldn't see it. 

[[dj...]]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:25 PM, [[s...] said:

The connection I'm making is that an excitotoxic storm following a cold turkey would kill neurons. Is this not true. This would fit with the symptoms I had the night before my severe mental decline.

Why else would tapering be recommended if not to prevent neurological damage from excitotoxicity?

I believe I'm not finding data because damage to neurons would be too difficult to find without before and after brain scans (I'm not even sure if there are scans to detect neuron quantity to begin with) but it would make sense with many benzo users having brain lesions or white matter scars.

 

I'm trying to find out just what level of damage there is in this way. There has to be some as nothing else makes sense.

The main reason tapering is recommended by medical professionals is to prevent seizures and withdrawal symptoms.  But, tapering is also recommended so your brain and body acclimate to the absence of benzos.  Tapering is recommended for all sorts of medications including antidepressants and blood pressure medications.  It’s not all about excitotoxicty.  
 

People that have seizures basically have excititoxicity.  It doesn’t mean their brains won’t come back.  
 

4.5 months is not that far off.  

[[se...]]

8 hours ago, [[P...] said:

You're still very early in recovery, its normal to feel this way and common to feel hopeless and stuck.  How are you measuring your cognition abilities, are you keeping good records of your symptoms and their severity?  I wish I would have done that because my poor sick brain kept telling me I wasn't improving but I was, I just couldn't see it. 

Neuropsych evaluations, a reputable online IQ test that was proven to have a solid correlation to WAIS, and just anecdotally how I feel.

I just took the spatial part of that test, and I scored extremely high. However, I scored extremely low in the neuropsych exam two months ago, and I feel terrible and unable to tell the time, measure distance -- but this test is also legit -- it's called the CAIT. I don't know. What I do know is that I sit and try to do something, my head gets in a knot, I have the attention span of a goldfish, forget everything, people don't make sense, and I have weird physical tics / can't maintain a train of thought for find the sense / symbolism in anything / execute or create a plan -- the psych exam showed deficits in all of these things -- huge ones.

The difference in what I just scored and what the neuropsych exam scored is a disparity of like 60 IQ points; so this all just feels useless.

[[se...]]

7 hours ago, [[d...] said:

The main reason tapering is recommended by medical professionals is to prevent seizures and withdrawal symptoms.  But, tapering is also recommended so your brain and body acclimate to the absence of benzos.  Tapering is recommended for all sorts of medications including antidepressants and blood pressure medications.  It’s not all about excitotoxicty.  
 

People that have seizures basically have excititoxicity.  It doesn’t mean their brains won’t come back.  
 

4.5 months is not that far off.  

I understand, thank you - I'm just not sure how to even... 'restimulate' my brain, and rebuild those neural pathways. How do I conceptualize what is erased from my head, then retrace footsteps that have already been seamlessly filled?

 

Would you happen to know the severity of a seizure or storm or a CT withdrawal? That's I guess what I struggle to grapple with. . . supposedly the storm keeps going, and there are no mechanisms to turn it off. Yet here I am, alive. How do I know how much damage was done before the storm passed, or quantify if it's just messed up brain connections or if it's all totally erased / neuron death, and how much??

[[Pa...]]

I don't think there is anything we can do to reassure you, you've convinced yourself you're doomed, this is what the drug does to us.  The only thing I can tell you is that thousands of people have felt and thought just like you, including me and they returned to their former level of cognitive function when they recovered. 

I wish you could take on faith what I'm telling you because its tough to live without hope.  Ruminating over this could be causing you harm, stress and worry in my opinion are the greatest contributors to symptom severity.

Time will prove you wrong and I look forward to your success story.

[[dj...]]

10 hours ago, [[P...] said:

I don't think there is anything we can do to reassure you, you've convinced yourself you're doomed, this is what the drug does to us.  The only thing I can tell you is that thousands of people have felt and thought just like you, including me and they returned to their former level of cognitive function when they recovered. 

I wish you could take on faith what I'm telling you because its tough to live without hope.  Ruminating over this could be causing you harm, stress and worry in my opinion are the greatest contributors to symptom severity.

Time will prove you wrong and I look forward to your success story.

Listen to Pamster.  I spent a long time stressing about stuff, fighting withdrawal with meds and supplements, etc and it only ever made things worse.  I drove myself crazy with all the neural pathways crap that therapists and doctors threw at me.  Nothing ever helped and it was really defeating.  My advice is to accept the cognitive deficits for what they are now.  They should heal in time. 
 

Think of your cognitive dysfunction like a broken ankle.  Doing light walking isn’t going to make it heal faster.  It’s not a question of strength - you have the strength - it’s a matter of allowing the injury time to heal.  This is a brain injury - recent papers on BIND support that.  Give it time.  

[[Dv...]]

On 08/08/2023 at 04:45, [[P...] said:

I don't think there is anything we can do to reassure you, you've convinced yourself you're doomed, this is what the drug does to us.  The only thing I can tell you is that thousands of people have felt and thought just like you, including me and they returned to their former level of cognitive function when they recovered. 

I wish you could take on faith what I'm telling you because its tough to live without hope.  Ruminating over this could be causing you harm, stress and worry in my opinion are the greatest contributors to symptom severity.

Time will prove you wrong and I look forward to your success story.

Hey pamster, does this include cognitive speed as well? Were you able to regain the ability to parallel/process or multitask on different ideas at the same time?

[[Pa...]]

I returned to my normal function.

[[Co...]]

I do believe I lost neurons too yes. I do have before and after MRIs and I do have lesions in the part of my brain my symptoms are worst. I think the brain can still rewire alternative pathways but that it would take a lot more time. I am sure in my case my brain will never feel the same but I am a rare highly sensitive exception.

[[ho...]]

On 21/09/2023 at 10:25, [[C...] said:

I do believe I lost neurons too yes. I do have before and after MRIs and I do have lesions in the part of my brain my symptoms are worst. I think the brain can still rewire alternative pathways but that it would take a lot more time. I am sure in my case my brain will never feel the same but I am a rare highly sensitive exception.

I believe I did too. I am 5 years out still with symptoms but at 18 months to 36 months I had a few mris that showed some white matter lesions. I know it’s not Ms. I was cold turkeyed by bad medical advice saying detox was safe and the clinic sold a good story and I was so sick after I was terrified to reinstate. I chose not to keep getting mris as I won’t take drugs and all the neurologists seem to know Is MS. My neuro retired and said it def could have been from the abrupt ending of benzos. I truly think the high glutamate is what caused them. I’m too nervous to get another mri and am just praying on time being the healer. I did do stem cells but don’t think that’s done a ton. I do see some progress here and there and am holding close that we all heal in our own time.  

[[Co...]]

I am sad to hear the stem cells did not help that much. They are a hope for me to try at some point because this is hell and all I wanted was therapy for cortisone anxiety and ocd.