Excel sheet for planning taper rate?

[[Mo...]]

Hello everyone, 

I have a memory of having seen someone post some type of excel sheet that they had created to help plan the rate of taper. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Please point me to it if you do. Thank you!

[[Pa...]]

I've seen spreadsheets around for years but in my opinion, they're not the best way to do this.  A general plan is good but tapers need to be adjusted for symptom severity and life events, trying to stick to a strict schedule just isn't workable for most members.  

Can you help you design a taper that works for your individual needs, at least until those needs change? 

[[da...]]

I did a taper from Xanax 0.50mg. I kept my own spreadsheet, and I would cut every week. I would watch for symptoms and let my body/symptoms guide me accordingly. Some weeks I cut a bit more, other weeks I cut more slowly, but the goal was to keep cutting and moving forward to zero. 

My recommendation: make your own schedule, taper at your pace, let your body and symptoms guide you. 

[[or...]]

I gave up on the spreadsheets because it raised my anxiety to a 10.1 on the Richter scale.  I just had to go simple or I was not going to get started on my taper.

I watched a video that solved it all, for me.  I had too many issues with figuring numbers, and I was an A student in Math up into Algebra, but that's gone, but I believe only for the time being, the fog is lifting as I taper off, just 5 months so far on a super slow taper.

I'll show you the video, and it may not be your cup of tea, and I agree 100% with the others that mentioned finding your very own, personalized taper.  Mine is pretty much the way this guy does his, I just have a cheaper scale, and making those notes is so rewarding to look back and see where I came from in my tapering Denise  PS here's the video:

 

[[El...]]

I very "loosely" use either of these spreadsheets.  One will help with a dry taper.  And there are 2 for a liqid taper.  Before I list them, I agree with those above that you should not adhere rigidly to any of them.  Instead, you need to listen to what your body is telling you.  But with that said, they are so helpful for calculating percentages if you have a "benzo" brain like I do.  If I feel, particularly, that I am cutting too fast, I can quickly enter some new numbers and figure out a better dosing schedule.  For the dry taper spreadsheet, you will need a scale.  I used it very successfully, until I switched to a combination liquid/pill taper.  It also was really helpful when I was weighing pills.  I am on lorazepam and it is very difficult to cut these pills beyond a quarter.  I do hope I have not offended anyone...but I did get them originally from this site!

Www.benzosupport.org - for only liquid taper

Www.benzoalwaysdata.net - for either a liquid or dry taper.

[[Li...]]

Tip of the hat @[El...] for recognizing that spreadsheets (or online calculators) developed by others should not be adhered to rigidly.   I’ve seen far too many members crash and burn by following taper schedules generated by these ‘tools’ instead of monitoring their symptoms and functionality closely and adjusting their taper schedules accordingly.  Another caveat about using these tools is that the underlying assumptions of a given tool may or may not be appropriate for a given individual.  For example, some tools assume a linear taper, some assume an exponential taper, some start with a linear taper and then change to an exponential taper at an arbitrary point.  Also, all of the tools I’ve encountered are ‘generic’ (e.g. they do not reflect the fact that different benzodiazepines have different dose/receptor occupancy curves).

[[or...]]

16 hours ago, [[E...] said:

I very "loosely" use either of these spreadsheets.  One will help with a dry taper.  And there are 2 for a liqid taper.  Before I list them, I agree with those above that you should not adhere rigidly to any of them.  Instead, you need to listen to what your body is telling you.  But with that said, they are so helpful for calculating percentages if you have a "benzo" brain like I do.  If I feel, particularly, that I am cutting too fast, I can quickly enter some new numbers and figure out a better dosing schedule.  For the dry taper spreadsheet, you will need a scale.  I used it very successfully, until I switched to a combination liquid/pill taper.  It also was really helpful when I was weighing pills.  I am on lorazepam and it is very difficult to cut these pills beyond a quarter.  I do hope I have not offended anyone...but I did get them originally from this site!

Www.benzosupport.org - for only liquid taper

Www.benzoalwaysdata.net - for either a liquid or dry taper.

I know I wasn't offended at all, a person can only be helped by exploring as many of the different opinions, experiences, and tools we might use to taper. 

My problem was figuring out the spreadsheets and the "trying" was giving me worse anxiety.  Opened my eyes to the brain-damage a benzo can do since I've used Excel for years "on the job" built spreadsheets and then moved to Access when it came out. 

I'm doing better in lots of ways, but when trying to figure out numbers the other day, I'm still overwhelmed by them.  I'm very glad I found I could just use the weight of the pill, for me it was the perfect solution.  I don't know about when I get into smaller weights, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there

[[El...]]

It's funny-strange how each of us struggles, but all in our unique way.  Fortunately, we can all come together and unite and "cheer each other on"  as we fight our personal battles.  I personally struggled with what you find easy.  I was forever getting confused between the mass of the pill (which, in my case jumped from 0.051 g to .061 g depending on the bottle) and the mass of the actual lorazapam which is 5 mg (so many fillers!).  I would often inadvertently go up in dosage instead of down.  And since I was trying to make 0.001 cuts, it was hard because the scale jumped around so much in that decimal place.

Thanks for reassurance that I didn't offend!

[[or...]]

True, we each find our own way, sometimes after trying other ways and failing   My scale wabbles between weights too at times, but if I wait about a minute, it settles on what I believe is the at least close to the right weight, like .001 is as far as it jumps.  I can either take that dose, or add a shaved bit of powder, or take off.  I don't try to be perfect as it stresses me, but now I cut on the same track of the TEVA letters, or the 333 on the other side of tablet.  It's tricky having a tremor that is also getting better, I'm amazed at that!  But I'm just cheering myself on when I hit that right weight I want to keep holding on

Someone mentioned to me in the beginning, that even pharmacists aren't always exact.  I don't know if that was uplifting or worrisome, but I'm doing just fine I'm cutting .003 and the reason I went for it the other day was not that I planned it, but my first try at cutting, landed my dose right at .003 less and I'd been on previous over 2 weeks I sort of felt it must be time, lol, not that I am superstitious about things like that

[[Mo...]]

thanks very much everyone. I am in the process of crossing from Ativan to Valium (it's going reasonably well so far). I had micro-tapered from 2.5mg Ativan down to 0.67mg Ativan.

The reason I was interested in an excel sheet or general formula is that I'm trying to wrap my head around how things change once I'm done with the cross to Valium. With Ativan I would quickly know if I'd cut too much. By the end of the cross I'm aiming to land on 3.5mg Valium for my nighttime dose and 1.19mg for the daytime, and then will restart tapering from there.

[[mi...]]

There are a lot of variables that influence the taper rate. The main thing is to do it without getting into painful withdrawal situations. No mater what we use we need a plan and some kind of guide. Programs that give a PDF sheets are not bad in my opinion. Of course not everyone feel confortable following numbers but even Ashton gives a sort of tables with taper rates  to follow, (too fast for some).

I use this program to taper https://benzo.alwaysdata.net/. It is very easy to use once you put the info on it. It gives you the option of doing slower using exponencial or atenuated taper at the end. I know that some will argue about it but it is at least a guide .  We always have the option of holding during the proccess and recalculate everything again.

In my experience is when getting close to the end when we have to be extremely careful and of course start slow and keep going if symptoms allow is the way to go. The main culprit as libertas says is the dose/reseptor ocupancy that happens mainly in the last third of the taper curve. There is still not enough reseptors even for such small dose and thats when symptoms show.

Using suspension or solusion is the way to go at certain point when pills sizes became inacurrate or impossible to devide. In that case reputable compound pharmacies are able to prepare the liquid prescription. Most can tolerate the switching to liquid or the mix with pills until full liquid. It's a more soft way that cut and hold usning pills only. Don't read to much about other people stories about complications with the later. Most do ok.

You seem to be in a good moderate low dose to start a successful taper. Take your time and hold if necessary during transitions. It takes time for our brains to adapt to changes. 

Good Luck!

Mice

 

 

 

[[he...]]

I have a spreadsheet I can make available if you're interested... I made it specifically for me, but it could be adapted for anyone.

[[Go...]]

1 hour ago, [[h...] said:

I have a spreadsheet I can make available if you're interested... I made it specifically for me, but it could be adapted for anyone.

Interested 

[[Mo...]]

On 08/08/2023 at 16:02, [[m...] said:

There are a lot of variables that influence the taper rate. The main thing is to do it without getting into painful withdrawal situations. No mater what we use we need a plan and some kind of guide. Programs that give a PDF sheets are not bad in my opinion. Of course not everyone feel confortable following numbers but even Ashton gives a sort of tables with taper rates  to follow, (too fast for some).

I use this program to taper https://benzo.alwaysdata.net/. It is very easy to use once you put the info on it. It gives you the option of doing slower using exponencial or atenuated taper at the end. I know that some will argue about it but it is at least a guide .  We always have the option of holding during the proccess and recalculate everything again.

In my experience is when getting close to the end when we have to be extremely careful and of course start slow and keep going if symptoms allow is the way to go. The main culprit as libertas says is the dose/reseptor ocupancy that happens mainly in the last third of the taper curve. There is still not enough reseptors even for such small dose and thats when symptoms show.

Using suspension or solusion is the way to go at certain point when pills sizes became inacurrate or impossible to devide. In that case reputable compound pharmacies are able to prepare the liquid prescription. Most can tolerate the switching to liquid or the mix with pills until full liquid. It's a more soft way that cut and hold usning pills only. Don't read to much about other people stories about complications with the later. Most do ok.

You seem to be in a good moderate low dose to start a successful taper. Take your time and hold if necessary during transitions. It takes time for our brains to adapt to changes. 

Good Luck!

Mice

Thank you so much for this Mice. This is helpful and reassuring. 

[[Mo...]]

On 08/08/2023 at 17:27, [[h...] said:

I have a spreadsheet I can make available if you're interested... I made it specifically for me, but it could be adapted for anyone.

Quote

Thank you hereforhelp. Yes, I would be interested in seeing your spreadsheet. Thanks so much for offering.

 

[[he...]]

I'll try to get that in working order ASAP and share it on Google Sheets, unless staff feel that is inappropriate or dangerous in some way.

[[or...]]

On 05/08/2023 at 06:59, [[L...] said:

Tip of the hat @[El...] for recognizing that spreadsheets (or online calculators) developed by others should not be adhered to rigidly.   I’ve seen far too many members crash and burn by following taper schedules generated by these ‘tools’ instead of monitoring their symptoms and functionality closely and adjusting their taper schedules accordingly.  Another caveat about using these tools is that the underlying assumptions of a given tool may or may not be appropriate for a given individual.  For example, some tools assume a linear taper, some assume an exponential taper, some start with a linear taper and then change to an exponential taper at an arbitrary point.  Also, all of the tools I’ve encountered are ‘generic’ (e.g. they do not reflect the fact that different benzodiazepines have different dose/receptor occupancy curves).

Thanks for this Libertas because I could not even figure out a spreadsheet when I got here.  I used them for literally years, created them in Excel, and used a database software called Access that was a blast to learn and use.  But when I tried to do numbers when my anxiety was higher than it is now, I got more anxiety until I could decide as I go, so grateful for learning that.  I still listen to my wd sxs, or lackthereof, but I keep my own little log for each day, and amount then I fill in date of each time I cut.  I just so believe in keeping, at least our daily tapers as simple for us as possible, and everyone's choice of what is "simple" for them, Denise

[[Li...]]

I've used a spreadsheet through my liquid micro taper, I have found it very useful since I also use it as a log to keep track of WD SX as i taper.  I also like how it gives me a date when this taper will be over, that may stress out some but for me, it gives me hope.

[[or...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

I've used a spreadsheet through my liquid micro taper, I have found it very useful since I also use it as a log to keep track of WD SX as i taper.  I also like how it gives me a date when this taper will be over, that may stress out some but for me, it gives me hope.

I admire anyone that can do numbers, especially a spreadsheet.  My jobs I held all included spreadsheets, and now I can't figure out a simple one so just cut my little bit and weigh it.  I use a miligram scale that should go down to .001 but I doubt it will unless I maybe add another weight like a dime that someone suggested to me 5 months ago when I started.