Restarting a taper

[[Th...]]

Hi All. I’ve been on benzos for about 20 years. I’ve never abused them but have taken them consistently across that time as instructed by a terrible doctor that I unfortunately trusted.

For most of that time I was taking 2mg of Xanax a day if not a little more. Then out of the blue that Doctor dumped me as a patient. Luckily I found another doctor who is yearly pretty good. He helped me bridge to clonazepam and I then tapered by dropping 0.125mg every 3-4 weeks. I made it down to 0.375 mg of clonazepam a day and then stopped tapering as I needed a rest. While I was resting I decided to start tapering Latuda. The doctor I was seeing gave me some bad advice and after three unsuccessful tapers and then a too fast linear taper I stopped tapering at 14mg (down from 40) and have held ever since. About 10 months. Things still aren’t 100% but I’m so much better than I was. I still get symptoms but continue to improve.

Now it’s time to finish the clonazepam taper. I plan on dropping by 5% for my first drop. I’m pretty nervous (ok scared) as the Latuda was a real buffer for the Benzo withdrawal last time. Now, there is no buffer. But there is also only 0.375mg to go. Not much! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I really need to continue working through this. I don’t have an savings so my priorities are to make progress on the taper but be functional as well.

 

thanks!

[[pi...]]

Hello Thorin and welcome to Benzo Buddies! 
You had some bumps in the road with your Latuda taper, I’m sorry. Now that this has resolved you can focus on the clonazepam taper. Since you need to be functional, slow and steady is the way to go. Benzo withdrawal is not a race. I worked throughout my rough taper, so it can be done.

My taper and recovery was a long time ago so I’ll leave more detailed information to come from those still in the process.

Again, welcome!

[[Th...]]

1 minute ago, [[p...] said:

Hello Thorin and welcome to Benzo Buddies! 
You had some bumps in the road with your Latuda taper, I’m sorry. Now that this has resolved you can focus on the clonazepam taper. Since you need to be functional, slow and steady is the way to go. Benzo withdrawal is not a race. I worked throughout my rough taper, so it can be done.

My taper and recovery was a long time ago so I’ll leave more detailed information to come from those still in the process.

Again, welcome!

Thanks very much for the welcome 🤗. Looking forward to meeting some good people here and getting some good advice. Both nervous to restart the taper but excited to think I might get off this stuff. I’ll be going as slow as my body needs me too.

[[Ro...]]

Hello Thorin,

Good to hear that you've made it down to .375 mg.  It's recommended here that we taper at a rate of 5 - 10% of the current dose (not the original dose) every 10-14 days while allowing some flexibility according to our symptoms.  I'm also tapering clonazepam.  I have my tapering schedule in the "About Me" part of my profile.  You can refer to it as an example.

At some point during the taper we often go linear.  My latest cut at .118 mg is a linear one.  Slow and steady IS the way to go.  I wish you luck with your taper.

[[Ko...]]

@[Ro...] Hi there- I am also starting a taper of clonazepam 0.5 mg daily soon.  What type of scale are you using?  Do you use the 0.5 tablets?

Do you make capsules or using the pill fragments?

Thank you- this is a daunting process to start...

[[Ro...]]

28 minutes ago, [[K...] said:

@[Ro...] Hi there- I am also starting a taper of clonazepam 0.5 mg daily soon.  What type of scale are you using?  Do you use the 0.5 tablets?

Do you make capsules or using the pill fragments?

Thank you- this is a daunting process to start...

Hello,  I use the GEM20 scale which I bought on Amazon.  Many members use that scale.  I use the Teva 0.5 mg tablets.  So far I haven't used capsules, but I have saved the powder in case I need it later.  I break the tablets, then use a mail file to file the pieces down.  Good luck to you.

[[Th...]]

7 hours ago, [[R...] said:

Hello Thorin,

Good to hear that you've made it down to .375 mg.  It's recommended here that we taper at a rate of 5 - 10% of the current dose (not the original dose) every 10-14 days while allowing some flexibility according to our symptoms.  I'm also tapering clonazepam.  I have my tapering schedule in the "About Me" part of my profile.  You can refer to it as an example.

At some point during the taper we often go linear.  My latest cut at .118 mg is a linear one.  Slow and steady IS the way to go.  I wish you luck with your taper.

Thank you for commenting. Yes I’ll be dropping 5% of my current dose. I’m considering swapping to liquid clonazepam. Has anyone had any luck with that? Any issues?

[[Th...]]

On 8/1/2023 at 12:15 AM, [[R...] said:

Hello Thorin,

Good to hear that you've made it down to .375 mg.  It's recommended here that we taper at a rate of 5 - 10% of the current dose (not the original dose) every 10-14 days while allowing some flexibility according to our symptoms.  I'm also tapering clonazepam.  I have my tapering schedule in the "About Me" part of my profile.  You can refer to it as an example.

At some point during the taper we often go linear.  My latest cut at .118 mg is a linear one.  Slow and steady IS the way to go.  I wish you luck with your taper.

Hey, have you been able to work during your taper? Also, do you know whether many people swap to a liquid version of their med to make it easier to reduce? I’m about to do that.

Cheers

[[Br...]]

Welcome Thorin!  You'll find a number of helpful posts about tapering with liquid clonazepam if you do a search (top right) using phrase "liquid clonazepam". 

[[do...]]

Hi Thorin

I  used liquid clonazapam when I reached the last 0.5mg of my taper.  I had it made up to .05 mg per ml.  I used a 6ml syringe to dose the liquid.  The syringe is calibrated so that each ml on the syringe is divided into 5  line calibrations.  So you can taper .01 mg per line which is .01ml.   For example if you want to taper 10 % of .375 (.0375mg )per month, (lets make it .04mg for simplicity). So you would drop .0l ml which is .01mg every 7 days for 28 days to decrease .04mg. It's easy and works great to adjust taper at your own pace

[[Th...]]

1 hour ago, [[d...] said:

Hi Thorin

I  used liquid clonazapam when I reached the last 0.5mg of my taper.  I had it made up to .05 mg per ml.  I used a 6ml syringe to dose the liquid.  The syringe is calibrated so that each ml on the syringe is divided into 5  line calibrations.  So you can taper .01 mg per line which is .01ml.   For example if you want to taper 10 % of .375 (.0375mg )per month, (lets make it .04mg for simplicity). So you would drop .0l ml which is .01mg every 7 days for 28 days to decrease .04mg. It's easy and works great to adjust taper at your own pace

Fantastic! Thank you. I’ll have a play around with the numbers and go from there. Much appreciated

[[Th...]]

1 hour ago, [[d...] said:

Hi Thorin

I  used liquid clonazapam when I reached the last 0.5mg of my taper.  I had it made up to .05 mg per ml.  I used a 6ml syringe to dose the liquid.  The syringe is calibrated so that each ml on the syringe is divided into 5  line calibrations.  So you can taper .01 mg per line which is .01ml.   For example if you want to taper 10 % of .375 (.0375mg )per month, (let’s make it .04mg for simplicity). So you would drop .0l ml which is .01mg every 7 days for 28 days to decrease .04mg. It's easy and works great to adjust taper at your own pace

I‘Ve been prescribed Rivotril (liquid clonazepam) but only got it yesterday. Each drop is 0.1mg. Do you know whether I can disperse this in water? Eg 2 drops into 2ml water then draw out my 0.125mg dose? How long can I keep the Rivotril once I open it and how long can I keep it once I put it in water? Assuming my Benzo addled brain is working 0.2mg in 2ml water means 1.25ml of solution to get 0.125mg clonazepam?

Thanks, I know it’s a lot of questions.

[[Th...]]

@[Pa...] hi I’m new to this site and I think you were a mod? Could someone please have a look at my calculations and taper plan?

my bottle of Rivotril is 2.5mg/ml liquid clonazepam.

it dispenses drops. 1 drop = 0.1mg

my desired dose is 0.125mg. 
 

if I add two drops to 2 ml water I get approximately 0.2mg/2ml

draw out 1.25ml to get 0.125mg clonazepam

is that correct?

I’ve spoken to the pharmacy and they’ve said it’s fine to dilute in water.

 

thanks!

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Th...] I don't have taper experience so its best to rely on members who do, I hesitate to say if your calculations are correct.  About the only thing I can tell you is members have diluted their solutions with water.  

[[Th...]]

36 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[Th...] I don't have taper experience so its best to rely on members who do, I hesitate to say if your calculations are correct.  About the only thing I can tell you is members have diluted their solutions with water.  

Thanks Pamster. Is there someone specific I could talk to that helps out with this stuff?

[[Pa...]]

I'll reach out to someone good at math, will that work? 

[[Th...]]

21 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

I'll reach out to someone good at math, will that work? 

Yes please! Anyone that has experience with this stuff would be great. Thank you!

[[or...]]

Hi Thorin, so glad you found the forum.  It's really been a kind of salvation for me from Clonazepam (generic for Klonopin).  First I guess  you know by now, you are not alone.  Every one here is a little different in their circumstances with benzos, but we're in this together, same road to freedom from the drug (s).

I've taken clonazepam a long time, my history is in my "About Me" and I've only been tapering 5 months, almost that is.  I only had to taper from a 1 mg tablet so not as hard as some.  I do pretty much the same sort of taper that @[Ro...] does.  I looked at the other options, but for me, taking my tablet and weighing it, which my TEVA clonazepam weighed .170 average.  My benzo brain could not figure percentages so I just have gone with weight of tablet.

Each morning I take my little scale that cost 17 bucks works fine, I keep lithium batteries in it to feel more secure about it's accuracy.  I then use a single-edged razor blade to cut/shave off a bit, then weigh it.  I also save my scraps, personal choice.  I am only down 30% in 5 months and I think that is about 6% per month, very slow, but I can tell you my wd sxs are next to nothing and I am able to live my life pretty normal during this taper.  I can't say enough about a slow taper, and my decision is final, not anyone else's to make.

Keep in touch with us here, you can do this, but it has to be what works for you.  I listen to my body and what I do after I taper I hold that at least 14 days, or, when I am sure I am stable, then I taper again.  I do know it's good to keep track of everything, date and dose, but you can also do that in your own way.  I just have a little notebook I fill in the dose each day.  It's working, so far so good. 

Also, don't hesitate to read the Ashton Manual, even a little at a time read it.  Dr. Heather Ashton has passed away now but she was one doctor that truly knew what she was talking about imo.  She said something to the effect that the person weaning is the best judge of how to wean.  With two very bad experiences trying to get off the C, I have learned to decide for myself.

[[or...]]

sorry about the long post but I thought of something that helped me with my decision on what type of taper @[Th...]

I felt most secure with my 1mg tabs because I was of course use to them.  I also read I think just from one person, that they got the liquid prescribed but it was like a different dose, I mean like a 1 mg dose tablet didn't have the same volume of the drug in a liquid form.  Of course some folks do fine with other methods, you just have to find, again, what works for you

Plus, for me, the less complicated for my benzo brain the better, like keep it simple if you can.

[[Th...]]

9 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

I've taken clonazepam a long time, my history is in my "About Me" and I've only been tapering 5 months, almost that is.  I only had to taper from a 1 mg tablet so not as hard as some. 

Thank you so much for posting here and saying hello. I really appreciate it. I’ll have to do a bit of a search and found the ‘about me’ section. I’ve been using my phone to access the forum and haven’t found that part yet. May need to try the desktop version.

I’m glad you only had to taper from 1mg! I’ve been holding this taper for about 2 years while I’ve been dealing with my other med. but I only have 0.375mg to go of clonazepam! Nearly there!

12 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Each morning I take my little scale that cost 17 bucks works fine, I keep lithium batteries in it to feel more secure about it's accuracy.  I then use a single-edged razor blade to cut/shave off a bit, then weigh it.  I also save my scraps, personal choice.  I am only down 30% in 5 months and I think that is about 6% per month, very slow, but I can tell you my wd sxs are next to nothing and I am able to live my life pretty normal during this taper.  I can't say enough about a slow taper, and my decision is final, not anyone else's to make.

That is amazing to read and it’s so good to hear you’re having minimal withdrawals 😊.

I plan to go as slow or as fast as my body allows. This is a marathon for me. Not a sprint. I have kids, a job etc so need to be functional. And absolutely it’s an individual choice how slow to go. I have a Dr that will support me with prescriptions as needed while I taper so the only pressure comes from myself.

14 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Keep in touch with us here, you can do this, but it has to be what works for you.  I listen to my body and what I do after I taper I hold that at least 14 days, or, when I am sure I am stable, then I taper again.  I do know it's good to keep track of everything, date and dose, but you can also do that in your own way.  I just have a little notebook I fill in the dose each day.  It's working, so far so good. 

 

This sounds like really good advice and I will follow it. Can’t believe we’re actually getting off this stuff!

 

15 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Also, don't hesitate to read the Ashton Manual, even a little at a time read it.  Dr. Heather Ashton has passed away now but she was one doctor that truly knew what she was talking about imo.  She said something to the effect that the person weaning is the best judge of how to wean.  With two very bad experiences trying to get off the C, I have learned to decide for myself.

I read the Ashton manual recently. She was a clever and caring woman it seems. Not that I’m glad you had difficult experiences in the past coming off but it is reassuring that you DID have difficult experiences and are now succeeding in coming off.

Thanks again for dropping by. Chat soon 😊

[[Th...]]

5 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

sorry about the long post but I thought of something that helped me with my decision on what type of taper @[Th...]

I felt most secure with my 1mg tabs because I was of course use to them.  I also read I think just from one person, that they got the liquid prescribed but it was like a different dose, I mean like a 1 mg dose tablet didn't have the same volume of the drug in a liquid form.  Of course some folks do fine with other methods, you just have to find, again, what works for you

Plus, for me, the less complicated for my benzo brain the better, like keep it simple if you can.

I absolutely agree with the less complicated the better. I make a suspension with my other med and find it much easier to reduce a few ml than to shave a few mg but that’s just me. I haven’t tried it with the clonaz yet and the measurements from the bottle are a bit weird which makes calculations a bit frustrating but I will see how I go. I can always go back to the tablets. I will only be using the liquid for my midday dose (I take 0.125mg/quarter tablet 3 x day).

Thanks again for stopping by. I’m keen to read your about me later this afternoon (I’m in Australia)

[[or...]]

Hi Thorin!  If you click on the username, like mine right above my pic/avatar, that should take to whoever's profile where, if they've filled out their About Me section then you'll see the tab

I'll, or anyone will, help you find it. Our Colin made this with our phones in mind, many of us use our phones mainly, to get on here, or anywhere online. Once you get used to it, which I can see you are good with tekkie stuff already you will do fine.

Any way that works for you Thorin, I got so shaken because I couldn't do things the way others were, like being so good with percentages but I just knew I could figure out a way that would work for me.  It was something that would have been kind of funny to watch when I was first starting, especially when I tried a water titration and slopped water all over me.  I have developed a bad tremor over the years, and maybe the benzo did it, maybe not, but I shook so bad.  I can tell you that is way better already so things are healing for sure

Yes, it's kind of amazing to look at my notes and see how far I've come, and you can share it with your doctor, I am so glad you have a great doc that is partnering with you in this taper biz.  My doctor is a sweetie but he basically lets me call the shots as he doesn't say so, but I know he doesn't understand my ways of doing a taper.  But he has faith in me because he wanted to give me a drug for T2 Diabetes but I told him I would like to try nutrition first.  He and his nurses were amazed when my weight dropped to normal, and my HbA1cs went back down to normal, non-diabetic ranges and have stayed there for 2.6 years. 

You are very wise to read what we can, like the Ashton Manual, then we can weed out the info and again, see what works for us.  We have options besides pills, they're out there, but sometimes I guess I am my own guinea pig, but better my own than some labs, or doctors I always say.  I know I need conventional medicine too, I think conventional and alternative should go hand in hand

Ok, I think I can do this, I think you only have about 38% of a clonazepam to go   Funny because I've just tapered about 30% so far, wow, maybe I can do math again now, lol!!  You're going to do fine, I'll be around, and all the others will too.  I agree they say 5% -10% but 3% is what is working for me.  You'll find your % too.  I think it's a real positive you've held for 2 years on your dose.  You're stable on that I'm guessing??  I need to read more of your posts above.  I just read your Original post so far Denise

 

 

[[or...]]

5 hours ago, [[T...] said:

@[Pa...] hi I’m new to this site and I think you were a mod? Could someone please have a look at my calculations and taper plan?

my bottle of Rivotril is 2.5mg/ml liquid clonazepam.

it dispenses drops. 1 drop = 0.1mg

my desired dose is 0.125mg. 
 

if I add two drops to 2 ml water I get approximately 0.2mg/2ml

draw out 1.25ml to get 0.125mg clonazepam

is that correct?

I’ve spoken to the pharmacy and they’ve said it’s fine to dilute in water.

 

thanks!

Hi again Thorin, I don't know if this will help but I used this conversion site to see what came up when I converted 1.25 ml to mg's, and got the answer you'll see in link.  You can probably do a better job using the converter but it might help you.  Otherwise, there's bound to be someone on the site that can help, that has done a liquid taper Here's the link:  https://www.flightpedia.org/convert/1.25-milligram-to-milliliter.html

[[Th...]]

18 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Hi Thorin!  If you click on the username, like mine right above my pic/avatar, that should take to whoever's profile where, if they've filled out their About Me section then you'll see the tab

Ah thanks Denise. I tried this with someone yesterday but didn’t find it but I now realise they may not have done their ‘about me’ yet. I’ll do mine this weekend.

 

20 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Any way that works for you Thorin, I got so shaken because I couldn't do things the way others were, like being so good with percentages but I just knew I could figure out a way that would work for me.  It was something that would have been kind of funny to watch when I was first starting, especially when I tried a water titration and slopped water all over me.  I have developed a bad tremor over the years, and maybe the benzo did it, maybe not, but I shook so bad.  I can tell you that is way better already so things are healing for sure

That’s amazing that you tremor is easing. I suspect when we get off these meds life will improve in all sorts of ways. There are things that I just thought were my mental health that have now eased because I’m on such a low dose of meds. It was the meds all along! Grrrrrrrrrr makes me angry but no point going down that rabbit hole.

 

21 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Yes, it's kind of amazing to look at my notes and see how far I've come, and you can share it with your doctor, I am so glad you have a great doc that is partnering with you in this taper biz.  My doctor is a sweetie but he basically lets me call the shots as he doesn't say so, but I know he doesn't understand my ways of doing a taper.  But he has faith in me because he wanted to give me a drug for T2 Diabetes but I told him I would like to try nutrition first.  He and his nurses were amazed when my weight dropped to normal, and my HbA1cs went back down to normal, non-diabetic ranges and have stayed there for 2.6 years. 

 

That’s amazing you were able to do that yourself. We’re capable of so much!

 

22 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Ok, I think I can do this, I think you only have about 38% of a clonazepam to go   Funny because I've just tapered about 30% so far, wow, maybe I can do math again now, lol!!  You're going to do fine, I'll be around, and all the others will too.  I agree they say 5% -10% but 3% is what is working for me.  You'll find your % too.  I think it's a real positive you've held for 2 years on your dose.  You're stable on that I'm guessing??  I need to read more of your posts above.  I just read your Original post so far

I think I’ve got just under 18% of the clonazepam left to taper. I may have written the wrong numbers earlier. Started on over 2mg of Xanax a day, bridged to clonaz and tapered down until it got too hard. Then started on my other med.

I still have symptoms that continue to morph and change but I have less symptoms than I used to and they’re less consuming than they were.

at the moment I only really have tinnitus which popped up last year, weird dizziness/vertigo which started in April and occasional lethargy/low level akathisia. Hard to know whether it’s from a too fast taper and crash from my other med or side effects from being on meds still. I‘be decided there’s only one way to find out and that’s to restart my taper!

11 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Hi again Thorin, I don't know if this will help but I used this conversion site to see what came up when I converted 1.25 ml to mg's, and got the answer you'll see in link.  You can probably do a better job using the converter but it might help you.  Otherwise, there's bound to be someone on the site that can help, that has done a liquid taper Here's the link:  https://www.flightpedia.org/convert/1.25-milligram-to-milliliter.html

Thank you Denise. I’ll have a look at this one.

 

cheers 😊

 

Thorin

[[or...]]

2 minutes ago, [[T...] said:

Ah thanks Denise. I tried this with someone yesterday but didn’t find it but I now realise they may not have done their ‘about me’ yet. I’ll do mine this weekend.

 

That’s amazing that you tremor is easing. I suspect when we get off these meds life will improve in all sorts of ways. There are things that I just thought were my mental health that have now eased because I’m on such a low dose of meds. It was the meds all along! Grrrrrrrrrr makes me angry but no point going down that rabbit hole.

 

That’s amazing you were able to do that yourself. We’re capable of so much!

 

I think I’ve got just under 18% of the clonazepam left to taper. I may have written the wrong numbers earlier. Started on over 2mg of Xanax a day, bridged to clonaz and tapered down until it got too hard. Then started on my other med.

I still have symptoms that continue to morph and change but I have less symptoms than I used to and they’re less consuming than they were.

at the moment I only really have tinnitus which popped up last year, weird dizziness/vertigo which started in April and occasional lethargy/low level akathisia. Hard to know whether it’s from a too fast taper and crash from my other med or side effects from being on meds still. I‘be decided there’s only one way to find out and that’s to restart my taper!

Thank you Denise. I’ll have a look at this one.

 

cheers 😊

 

Thorin

Yes but I did the numbers backwards on the conversion, definitely still not tracking numbers, lol   Someone will come along though   I don't doubt I got your % wrong too   I do like challenges so thought I'd give it a go.  I think it's brain exercise but actually, I think it is more brain torture for me to try numbers   Anyway, it's way good to meet you and I'm so glad you are here.  Oh, I have tinnitus as well no dizziness or vertigo, but had tinnitus for about 8-9 years now.  It is getting better as I mentioned, either that or I am so adapted to it   I know you have a very positive attitude about all this and that will be a great asset to your recovery!!  hugs, and have a good night, or day, wherever you are.  I'm on PNW coast of US sort very near the Oregon/California boarder, so I'm about ready to hit the sack, but I'll be around tomorrow most likely, Denise