Requesting Admin Insight/Experience: Potential Transition from Alprz. > Diaz

[[ia...]]

I'm hoping Pamster/Jelly might be able to chime in (and anyone else please who has experience or can speak to this topic):

I was tapering off two different Benzos. Made the jump off Diazepam last month - went really well. I'm still on .125 approximately once daily evening about 7 PM - of the Alprazolam. My last cut on the Alprazolam was well over a month ago - HOWEVER, the symptoms just in the last two weeks have gotten really intense. Sleeplessness, some dizziness, tightness, Heart palps at night are my primary symptoms. Sounds vain - but I've been losing my hair in larger quantities during this process THAT has been hard for me. 

 

I have about 38 count of 10 mg Diazepam pills remaining (and more than enough 2 mg Alprazolam available). I'm wondering ... if it would make sense for me to TRANSITION to the Diazepam and finish my taper on the Diazepam? Again, I'm at .125 once daily of the Alprazolam. Why am I thinking about this now? Because I've heard people have better experiences tapering off Diazepam. Interested in your thoughts. Thanks as always for your time, compassion and energy. Gratitude!

 

[[Pa...]]

I don't have taper experience so take what I say with a grain of salt, members who taper are actually the subject matter experts when it comes to questions like this.

What was the timeline for when you took your last dose of Diazepam and your most recent reduction of the Alprazolam?  From your description, it seems like they happened around the same time. 

[[ia...]]

Hi Pamster - thanks for the reply: Quick question, this is probably listed somewhere in the forum update page, but... did my signature go away? Do I have the option to create a new signature? Sorry if this has already been covered. 

I jumped from the Diazepam less than 1 mg, around june 10th.

 

Last cut on the Alprazolam was a month ago about the first of july somehwere in there.. Cut from .2 or so to .125 ish. I'm using dry cut and hold with a scale method. 

 

Thank you for your help.

[[Pa...]]

One of our members has been helping out with helpful tips and videos, here is a post on how to create a 'signature' here. 

 

So around the 10th of July would have been 3 weeks off of Diazepam, many members have commented that it can sometimes take that long for the drug to fully exit their system and you made your Alprazolam reduction around the 1st.  I wonder if its what I've seen described, symptoms piling up when they've reduced too quickly?  If this is the case, and who really knows then holding until you stabilize could potentially help.  

How is your interdose, are you experiencing this?  Since you have experience with Diazepam, are you leaning towards crossing this last bit over?  It will add time to your taper but functionality is what we're aiming for with tapers. 

I'm sorry to hear about your hair, this is very common but it will come back as you recover. 

 

[[je...]]

I'll try and help if you can provide a signature (or copy the info here in this thread in your post). Without history I'm flying blind.

[[ia...]]

 

 

Hi Pamster. Appreciate you. I've heard this topic of ‘interdose’ but really do not understand this topic. What IS interdose anyway? Is that like interactions?

Currently,  I'm on my primary medication Buprenorphine which I've been on for about 6-7 years. I've never had an issue with this medication interacting with Alprazolam. (Likely because I've always been on such a low dose of the Alprazolam). 

I'm really on the fence with transitioning to the Diazepam. I didn’t necessarily have any issues with the Diazepam taper – in fact it seemed much easier than what I’m experiencing with the Alprazolam. The primary reason I’m thinking about transitioning is because I get so much pressure in my head/headaches when coming off of Alprazolam. I didn’t seem to have that issue with the Diazepam – but maybe it was because I was still on the Alprazolam… if that makes any sense?

Can someone help me discern what the crossover dose is from .125 Alprazolam - what does that equate to in Diazepam? I know there's a resource out there, but I've had trouble understanding the dose equivalent...

The hair is a bummer... thank you for affirming that it will return. So much gratitude for you Pam.

 

[[ia...]]

@[je...]

 

Lost my Signature details in the forum transition. These are the details I have from memory. Let me know if I can provide more details.

-Rx'd Diazepam: June 2020 for sleep/and struggling/grieving a couple losses. 

-On Estimated 3-4 mg of Diazepam from June 20'-September 2022. (Had 10 mg tablets. NEVER took more than 4 mg)

-Tapered from 3 mg Diazepam daily down to .50, over 9 months. Jumped from .50 mg Dizepam June 2023. No real issues with jump. OFF Diazepam since June 10^th 2023.

-CONCURRENTLY with the Diazepam: Rx'd Alprazolam for flying phobia. Flew three days in a row. Became dependent. Stayed on .50 mg from May 2020-October 2023. Began taper around October 2023. I've been cutting and holding about 15-25% reductions (or there abouts) every 2-6 weeks. 

-Last Alprazolam Cut: July 1, 2023. Cut from .20, down to > .125. Holding at .125 from July 1- Present. No issues the first four weeks of this cut.

-Over the course of the entire Alprazolam taper, symptoms have been manageable and I’ve been able to work. Overall symptoms have been: Sweating, sleep disturbances (although I’ve been able to sleep at least 5-7 hours up until last week), irritability, some palps… hair/hormone issues have been really tough.

-Around 7/20 WD sx have increased tremendously. In the last week, sleep has become VERY difficult. Tinnitus increased immensely. hormone issues/adrenaline surges, irritability, waking up heart pounding, gasping for air. (As If I stopped breathing in my sleep. This also happened several years ago during a opioid taper. Not sure why… but this is ‘normal’ for me.)

Thank you Jelly. Let me know if you have other questions. I appreciate you SO much.

 

[[je...]]

Just to clarify my understanding. You finished tapering Diazepam June this year. You were simultaneously tapering Alprazolam at 15-25% (2-6 weeks) with the last cut on July, 1?

[[ia...]]

38 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Just to clarify my understanding. You finished tapering Diazepam June this year. You were simultaneously tapering Alprazolam at 15-25% (2-6 weeks) with the last cut on July, 1?

 

@[je...]Exactly. I was simultaneously tapering from both Alprazolam and Diazepam. Until June of this year, I jumped off the Diazepam, with seemingly no issues. My Alprazolam cuts have been anywhere between 15-25% usually holding for about 4 weeks on average. 

Also - I thought about consolidating both drugs into the Diazepam, but didn't because I was not sure if I had enough Diazepam to last me an entire taper off both drugs. Thanks again Jelly.

 

[[je...]]

My guess would be that your cuts have been accummulating. If you've made 15-25% cuts plus the Diazepam cuts it could very well be that you are now feeling the effects of these cuts even though at the time it might have seemed okay (the same as @[Pa...] is suggesting). I would hold for now and see how it goes. Without a steady supply of Diazepam, I don't think it's wise to do a crossover. Do you feel your current symptoms are manageable to hold or are they too strong?

I am really sorry to hear about your hair. There's nothing vain about it. So much of our identity is in the way we physically present ourselves and I know what an important part our hair plays. It will grow back. 

[[ia...]]

@[je...] & @[Pa...] Thank you both for your insight. As I'm thinking more about this... I agree that the cuts/symptoms have compounded. This would make sense... as I've had 'delayed onset' of WDs with other chemicals. I think my body just takes longer to 'detox'. I'm going to hold for another 30 days (maybe longer if I need to) and continue to let my body lead the taper-and, I'm going to stick with the Alprazolam. I might check in when it's time to do my next cut and talk about percent. Appreciate you both- thank you!

[[Pa...]]

I like your plan, but need to address interdose withdrawal.  Many Alprazolam users begin to feel symptoms between doses because of its short half life so its not uncommon to see them dose up to 4 times a day.  

[[ia...]]

On 7/27/2023 at 6:37 AM, [[P...] said:

I like your plan, but need to address interdose withdrawal.  Many Alprazolam users begin to feel symptoms between doses because of its short half life so its not uncommon to see them dose up to 4 times a day.  

 

Ohhh THANK YOU Pam. Ok, I understand ‘interdose’ now. I thought 'Interdose' meant .. if you're taking multiple medications and experiencing issues between two different meds. Thank you for explaining this Pam. To address this topic, YES I am experiencing interdose WDs 

Early on in my taper I was previously on two doses; AM/PM. Jelly This did work for awhile until I tapered down to about .25, and then the therapeutic dose became lost and my sleep became severely compromised. After about 1 month on .25, I consolidated into 1 dose. This helped with sleep.

I am starting to struggle more with the WDs but, I find sleep is more important to me than trying to avoid the WDs during the day. What are your thoughts on this?

Lately I've actually been able to go longer between doses. For example, yesterday the WDs weren’t that bad for some reason. I usually take my dose at 5-7 PM CST. Yesterday I was ablet to go until 10 PM. Even then I wasn't really suffering. But it really depends on the day and honestly TMI, but my bowel movements are greatly affected by the buprenorphine. The more I’m ‘detoxing’, the more WDs I feel.

But the idea is, I'm trying to get the dose closer to bedtime while also stretching longer as this gets me closer to my ultimate goal. I can see the finish line but know I have probably another 90-120 days. I'm walking everyday, getting sunshine, eating well (for the most part - had a little ice cream binge last week whoops!).. I find having a clean diet REALLY helps this process. This community helps me so much. Really grateful for the support and community. Apologies for the epistle!

 

[[je...]]

It's interesting you're mentioning the therapeutic value losing effect because we've been talking about it lately and how it could possibly be problematic with multiple doses in short acting drugs at lower doses (gosh that's a mouthful - I hope it makes sense!). In other words, the combined dose is still high but because people have so many small doses, these individual doses are relatively small and might lose therapeutic effect as an individual dose. I think you should be doing what's working for you. If you can manage the interdose withdrawal, then it will be easier to taper one dose. 

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[j...] said:

It's interesting you're mentioning the therapeutic value losing effect because we've been talking about it lately and how it could possibly be problematic with multiple doses in short acting drugs at lower doses (gosh that's a mouthful - I hope it makes sense!

We just can't get a break, fix one problem, create another! 

4 hours ago, [[i...] said:

I am starting to struggle more with the WDs but, I find sleep is more important to me than trying to avoid the WDs during the day. What are your thoughts on this?

You can absolutely take your dose when it serves you best so if sleep is the most important then arrange your dosing schedule accordingly.

 

4 hours ago, [[i...] said:

For example, yesterday the WDs weren’t that bad for some reason.

Our symptoms will wax and wane for no apparent reason so this is normal. Thrilled to hear you're taking such good care of yourself!