Klonopin - How Low Do You Go?

[[Je...]]

Hello Buddies!

Wow, I am loving this new sight even if it takes a little getting used to! So, I have a question:

I would like to know how low people have gone with their Klonopin dose before jumping successfully? Right now, I am taking 0.25 mg in the evening and have been cutting 0.125 mgs each time I've cut - so far without issue - even though each 0.125 mg cut becomes a larger percentage of my remaining dose. I am anxious to be done with this drug as I am starting a new chemo regimen (honestly, so many of the side effects of treatment are the same as withdrawal symptoms, I can't tell the difference) and I would like to just get this OVER with.  I'm wondering if I am crazy to think I could jump from 0.125 mg once I get there? I know everyone responds differently, but with the new treatment starting I'd be so happy to eliminate this drug. I hope this makes sense, and I really, really appreciate your thoughts!

Thank you!!

Jessamy

 

[[je...]]

A couple of questions:

• How long have you been on Klonopin?
• What was your starting dose?
• How long have you been tapering?

I am genuinely sorry about the chemo. Going through all of this must be really tough.

[[Je...]]

Hi Jelly Baby!

Yeah, the chemo thing has been rough, but you know, it could be a LOT worse. I am fortunate that there are so many treatment options for me because there is no cure for my cancer, which is bone cancer, (multiple myeloma).  And, you know, I've had so many unexpected Blessings. So, this is my second time on Klonopin. I was on BB during my first taper, and I've pasted my old signature below, followed by my current taper. I've actually been doing pretty well, I think. It's really hard to distinguish between benzo withdrawal symptoms and the side effects from the chemo - so many are the same.

 

2001-2014 0.5 mg 2X day
2014-2015 0.25 mg 2X

1/24/15 0.125 mg AM / 0.25 mg PM = 0.375 mg
3/21/15 0.125 mg AM / 0.125 mg PM = 0.25 mg
5/17/15 0.0625 mg AM / 0.125 mg PM = 0.1875 mg
5/22/15 0.0625 mg AM / 0.0625 mg PM = 0.125 mg
6/08/15 0.0313 mg AM / 0.0313 mg PM = .0626 mg
6/21/15 0 mg AM / 0.0313 mg PM = .0313 mg
7/05/15 JUMPED!

 

Then I was off Klonopin until 2019. (I cut and paste this from my pre-new-site signature)

 

Jan 2019 - Jan 2021: 2.5 mg/day Klonopin (K). (In treatment for Bone Cancer. After 4 rounds of chemo, have a stem cell transplant in June 2019. Immunotherapy in late 2019.)

1/22/21 - 1 mg AM/1.25 mg PM (Cut from 1.5 PM)

7/16/21 - 1 AM/1.125 PM

8/01/21 - 1 AM/1 PM

hold for almost a year ...

7/01/22 - .75 AM/1 PM

7/26/22 - .75 AM/.75 PM

8/26/22 - .625 AM/.75 PM

9/08/22 - .5 AM/.75 PM

9/26/22 - Relapse of Cancer - Start Treatment Again - hold taper 

~2023~

1/01 - .5 AM/.625 PM

1/19 - .5 AM/.5 PM

3/13 - .375 AM/.5 PM

4/3 - .375 AM/.375 PM

5/1 - .25 AM/.375 PM

5/29 - .25 AM/.25 PM

6/19 - .125 AM/.25 PM

7/12 - 0 AM/.25 PM

And so here I am now. I've gone fast and slow but always down ...

 

Thank you!!

 

[[je...]]

So from January until now, do you feel your symptoms have been manageable?

[[Je...]]

Hi Jelly Baby,

Yes, they have. I mean, I've been in chemo, too, and the side effects sometimes make me want to give up, but I don't think they are benzo-related because they always coincide with a treatment appointment. One of the medications I have to take is a corticosteroid and that causes me a world of hurt. 

That being said, I've had an awful headache the past few days, but the weather has been unsettled (I'm like a human barometer with sinus issues), and I think I've been spending too much time on my laptop, which causes muscle pain in my shoulders and neck, which is probably causing the headaches. (I have a vision issue, too, that just complicates things.)

I guess that a long-winded way of saying, yes, they've been manageable. Sorry about that! 

Jessamy

PS Your name makes me think of Dr. Who

[[je...]]

It sounds like you've been managing these linear cuts. As you know we don't recommend it and it always makes me nervous when people taper like this, but you seem to be doing well. I know of one person who tapered in 0.125 increments and jumped at 0.125 and she did just fine.

I tend to be overly cautious but I would say trust your gut. If you make a 50% cut to 0.125 and you do okay then surely you'll manage the jump right?

The only other thing I'll advise is to look at your state of mind. If you're stressed out about jumping at that dose then it's not worth it. I jumped at 0.025mg and even that was stressful. But I was ready to get off. If you're going to stress and have anxiety about whether you jumped at the right dose you might just want to cut it half again. The mental anguish is not worth it and sometimes people underestimate it.

It might just be helpful to plan one more cut for peace of mind? I don't know how you feel?

PS. I'm not familiar with Dr. Who but I sure hope it's a good memory.

[[Je...]]

Thank you so much for your advice! I'm going to ponder this, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for me to go slower/smaller cuts. I'm just so anxious to be done with it all. I could do smaller more frequent cuts and it would probably work out about the same only maybe a smoother ride on the way down...

Dr. Who is a television show and it's definitely a good memory! You can Google Dr. Who and Jelly Babies and see video clips. 

Thank you, again! 

[[he...]]

Yes, you are definitely in the minority here of those who can make cuts that big, but if it's working for you, then you can probably jump from a higher amount than is typically recommended (Ashton). I made it down to .050 mg and jumped and am still having some physical symptoms, but I had symptoms the whole way down. Sounds like you will be just fine. Let us know how it goes.

[[Br...]]

I had no symptoms until I got to .1 and then they all came at once. I was coming from .5mg and I had been on it 3.5 years and again a different time, years ago. So I would just be cautious. My taper method was also extremely fast. I'll paste below. I see that you're anxious to get off but like the humans said above, your mental/physical stability is worth so much during these times! I hope you are able to do what feels good

Tapering off of .5mg klonopin after 3.5 years of use, using a water taper, taking approximately .0125 with a tablespoon out of 300 mL of water then 150 mL. Not the most accurate method, I know. 

3-18 .475

3-21 .45

3-27 .425

3-31 .4

4-5 .375

4-10 .35

4-13 .325

4-16 .3

4-22 .275

4-26 .25

4-30 .225

5-5 .2

5-9 .175

5-12 .15

5-15 .25 (accident)

5-21 .125

5-24 .2

5-26 .15

5-28 .125

6-1 .1

6-7 .2 (all the symptoms hit me a few days after the june first, people here said it was a delayed reaction to how fast I had been going and then the accident and how I tried to remedy that accident, by going even faster. I updosed because my physical and mental symptoms were unbearable.)

7-8 .175 

 

 

[[he...]]

I'm always so amazed by those who have no symptoms or very light symptoms, because my experience was so much more intense, even after just a couple months of daily use. I'm thankful it's not incredibly painful coming off this stuff for everyone.

[[Je...]]

Thank you SO much for your insights, hereforhelp, and Breeze4. Believe me, I will not take this lightly. I AM anxious to be done with this, but I also don't want to be any miserable than I need to be. I will keep you posted! Thank you, again!!

[[Je...]]

I've run my spreadsheets (I have spreadsheets I use to calculate the half-life of clonazepam at 18 hours and 50 hours, as I figure I'm somewhere in between - it's interesting to correlate how I'm feeling with my, theoretically, blood plasma levels of clonazepam), and have decided that I am going to cut my dose again on Monday, but NOT 0.125 mg, rather, I'm cutting 0.0625 mgs, which will bring my dose down to 0.1875 mgs. I realize that will be a 25% cut, but my last cut was 33% and I've been doing OK. I'm hoping I'll remain feeling OK. I'll check back in ...

Thank you so much for everyone's input! I really, really appreciate it!

Jess

[[je...]]

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. 

[[Je...]]

23 hours ago, [[j...] said:

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. 

I will! Thank you, again!! 

[[Je...]]

Checking in! It's been two weeks since I cut from 0.25 mg to 0.1875 mg, which I take as a single dose in the evening before bed. I've been splitting an orally disintegrating tablet - they split so nicely. I've been having some symptoms, but not awful. The worst is a headache and some insomnia. I've had some anxiety, too, but I've been able to deal with that through distraction, breathing, and meditation. Other symptoms are a physical sensation of my body "vibrating" and some dizziness and nausea. But I'm coping. I'm contemplating another dose reduction on Monday ... I'm thinking I'll just do it, and if it's BAD, I'll go back up ... I'll check back in. It *has* been a rough two weeks, but it's not all on the taper. Other medical issues are contributing. Ugh.

Jess

[[Pa...]]

Thanks for checking in, I'm glad to hear the ODT is working for you, many are unsure if its a good taper tool and it sounds like it is. 

As for making another reduction, I'd suggest holding off, stress can bring on more intense symptoms.  Tapers can and should be adjusted to account for life events and it sounds like you've got some going on.  I'd use the drug to help you get through them, then you can resume when things settle down, which I hope they will.

[[Je...]]

On 13/08/2023 at 15:02, [[P...] said:

Thanks for checking in, I'm glad to hear the ODT is working for you, many are unsure if its a good taper tool and it sounds like it is. 

As for making another reduction, I'd suggest holding off, stress can bring on more intense symptoms.  Tapers can and should be adjusted to account for life events and it sounds like you've got some going on.  I'd use the drug to help you get through them, then you can resume when things settle down, which I hope they will.

Thank you, Pamster! Yes, I think the ODT are much easier to cut. They are so soft I can get really accurate with them. I now have 0.125 mg ODTs so I can take 1.5 pills instead of estimating crumbs. It's GREAT!

Jess

[[Je...]]

Another Update: I made another dose reduction this past Monday. I had been at 0.1875 mg for two weeks and went down to 0.125 mgs, which I take in the evenings. The withdrawal symptoms have been manageable. Right now, I am going with how I feel and my own intuition as to when to cut. I'm anxious to be done with this but also don't want to feel horrific. Thing is there is no "settling down" for me - my cancer is incurable, and I will be on treatment until it either no longer works or the toxicity is intolerable. Soooo... I'm just plowing ahead. Weird thing is a lot of the chemo side-effects are the same as withdrawal symptoms - so how I'm feeling could go either way ... Maybe the withdrawal seems more manageable to me because I also have the chemo stuff going on. The LAST time I tapered in 2015, I felt a lot worse. (Although I was tapering three meds at once ... ) Anyway, I just wanted to check in again. It's not sunshine and rainbows, but it's not intolerable awful, either. And I really, really appreciate all the support and information that I see here. BB got me through my last taper, and I will ever be grateful for the knowledge and experience!

As to How Low Will I Go? I'm thinking 0.03125 mgs - Does that seem too high from which to jump? It's where I jumped last time, but I definitely had some w/d symptoms after that - mostly panic and anxiety. Surprisingly, this time I haven't experience much anxiety or panic. I wonder if it's waiting in the bushes for me...

[[Ro...]]

15 minutes ago, [[J...] said:

Another Update: I made another dose reduction this past Monday. I had been at 0.1875 mg for two weeks and went down to 0.125 mgs, which I take in the evenings. The withdrawal symptoms have been manageable. Right now, I am going with how I feel and my own intuition as to when to cut. I'm anxious to be done with this but also don't want to feel horrific. Thing is there is no "settling down" for me - my cancer is incurable, and I will be on treatment until it either no longer works or the toxicity is intolerable. Soooo... I'm just plowing ahead. Weird thing is a lot of the chemo side-effects are the same as withdrawal symptoms - so how I'm feeling could go either way ... Maybe the withdrawal seems more manageable to me because I also have the chemo stuff going on. The LAST time I tapered in 2015, I felt a lot worse. (Although I was tapering three meds at once ... ) Anyway, I just wanted to check in again. It's not sunshine and rainbows, but it's not intolerable awful, either. And I really, really appreciate all the support and information that I see here. BB got me through my last taper, and I will ever be grateful for the knowledge and experience!

As to How Low Will I Go? I'm thinking 0.03125 mgs - Does that seem too high from which to jump? It's where I jumped last time, but I definitely had some w/d symptoms after that - mostly panic and anxiety. Surprisingly, this time I haven't experience much anxiety or panic. I wonder if it's waiting in the bushes for me...

Adding my 2 cents, I'd say 0.03125 is a reasonable goal.  Wishing you a smooth end of taper.

[[Je...]]

4 minutes ago, [[R...] said:

Adding my 2 cents, I'd say 0.03125 is a reasonable goal.  Wishing you a smooth end of taper.

@[Ro...] Thank you!!

 

[[Pa...]]

I'm grateful you're keeping us updated, and glad to know your symptoms aren't intolerable.  It sounds like you have greater challenges to contend with, I'm very sorry for your health situation. 

Some members have mentioned that when they've become ill with the flu or some other malady, they don't notice their symptoms as much, kind of like the illness itself is a distraction.  I wonder if the chemo and the enormity of your cancer diagnosis pushes benzodiazepine withdrawal into the background, its still there but not barking as loud as the cancer?

You have a wonderful attitude and we know its not all sunshine and rainbows, but I can see you're doing your best to keep your situation from taking any more than it already has. 

[[Je...]]

8 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

I'm grateful you're keeping us updated, and glad to know your symptoms aren't intolerable.  It sounds like you have greater challenges to contend with, I'm very sorry for your health situation. 

Some members have mentioned that when they've become ill with the flu or some other malady, they don't notice their symptoms as much, kind of like the illness itself is a distraction.  I wonder if the chemo and the enormity of your cancer diagnosis pushes benzodiazepine withdrawal into the background, its still there but not barking as loud as the cancer?

You have a wonderful attitude and we know its not all sunshine and rainbows, but I can see you're doing your best to keep your situation from taking any more than it already has. 

@[Pa...] I think you're absolutely right. The chemo and such are probably pushing the withdrawal into the background - and I'm grateful for that! It's been challenging, that's for sure, but I'm also grateful that there is treatment to be had, and I'm grateful for the support here. It helps a lot. Truly, it does. Especially the FIRST time I tapered. THIS time I knew what I was getting into, and it hasn't been as bad as I thought it was going to be! I already knew that I NEEDED to taper, and even had a plan roughed out - and that's because BB was here for me in 2015! It is now my hope that I'll be able to post a success story when I'm done that will give hope to others - especially the fear of kindling, which doesn't seem to have been the case for me this time around. Of course, I'm not done YET, but things are going far more smoothly than they DID!

Thank you again, and I will keep updating! 

[[Je...]]

Another update. I don't know if anyone scans this, but because I'm going a little bit "faster" with my taper, I like to put up posts to show how it's going. (I may be an atypical poster because I tapered before, didn't seem to kindle, and am tapering a bit quicker this time, and don't seem to be having serious issues - so far - knock wood.)

My last cut was on Monday, August 14. I reduced my dose from 0.1875 mg to 0.125 mg.  I haven't felt great, but I haven't felt horrific, either. I started a new chemotherapy treatment regimen on July 31st, and it's more aggressive than the treatment I had been on, so it's honestly hard to say if I feel lousy because of chemo or benzo withdrawal or both - probably both, which may be good? I don't know. I have good days and less good days, but I think that overall, it is going well. I KNOW it is going better than when I tapered in 2015. I would have been LOST without BB to help me figure out what I was doing. I think maybe that's why this time around it is going so much better.

So, tomorrow I am going to reduce my dose again. I'm going from 0.125 mg to 0.09375 mg. (Yup, 25%) I realize that seems fast, but I also wonder to myself about how well that percentage works for me when I get to these lower doses. I'm letting how I feel and my "gut instinct" guide me with my cuts, and this feels right. And, of course, I know that if I feel poorly, I can hold for a longer period while things level back out.  Mondays are good days for me to cut because I'm so loaded up on chemo drugs and the effects last for days. (Oh, I'll be cutting a 0.125 mg ODT - taking 3/4 of the pill.)

Is it withdrawal or side effect? Well, who knows, but these are some of the things I've been experiencing:

Headaches, running nose, forehead "twitching" (weird, right?), burning and pain in my calves - it feels like my skin is on fire, shaking in my hands, insomnia, some nausea, muscle tension and a feeling like I'm "vibrating", back pain, rib pain, general aches, thinning hair, vision issues, dry brittle nails, dry skin, a sore tongue (yeah, I don't know what that's about ... ), I hear music - this is a REALLY weird one ... I'll hear something that reminds me of a song and then it starts playing in my head - kinda cool and annoying at the same time. I'm my own Mystery Playlist. Oh, irritability, depression. An uncontrollable urge to eat Welch's fruit snacks. Lots of fruit snacks. 

So, all of that could be chemo. Most of it is listed as side effect of chemo. I also know that a lot of that is w/d, too. But there are a lot of things that AREN'T wrong, too. Like, my elbow doesn't hurt. I can still smell things. My jaw stopped popping. I'm not coughing. The rash that I got the first week cleared up. Sleep is better, not great, but better. I quit soaking through my clothes with night sweats (those were awful). 

So, I'm thinking I'll go to 0.0625 mg in another couple of weeks and then from there to 0.03125 mgs and from there, I will jump.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has jumped from 0.03125 mgs? Are you out there? How did it go? Should I try to go lower? I mean I could, theoretically cut almost indefinitely, but I'm also excited to be done. I'm really looking forward to being free!

 

[[Pa...]]

Wow, reading all of the symptoms you’re dealing with and having you describe them as “not horrific” is a testament to your positive attitude, you’re amazing!  All of the symptoms you describe could be withdrawal symptoms too, these are listed as side effects of chemo? 

What part of your tongue is sore, the tip of mine was because without realizing it, I was constantly rubbing the roof of my mouth creating a sore tongue as well as a blister on the roof, weird tic I was glad to see go.  I heard music but only 5 notes, over and over, it was maddening.  Some members have to avoid sugar but it looks like your body is telling you differently, Welches huh? 

Your taper is your taper and while it seems fast, you’re using your best judgment and experience to guide you so we can’t ask for more.  I’m just grateful you’re documenting because even if members don’t comment, they and guests alike are combing the platform trying to find a situation that mirrors theirs so they can use it as a roadmap, thank you.

 

 

[[Je...]]

2 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Wow, reading all of the symptoms you’re dealing with and having you describe them as “not horrific” is a testament to your positive attitude, you’re amazing!  All of the symptoms you describe could be withdrawal symptoms too, these are listed as side effects of chemo? 

What part of your tongue is sore, the tip of mine was because without realizing it, I was constantly rubbing the roof of my mouth creating a sore tongue as well as a blister on the roof, weird tic I was glad to see go.  I heard music but only 5 notes, over and over, it was maddening.  Some members have to avoid sugar but it looks like your body is telling you differently, Welches huh? 

Your taper is your taper and while it seems fast, you’re using your best judgment and experience to guide you so we can’t ask for more.  I’m just grateful you’re documenting because even if members don’t comment, they and guests alike are combing the platform trying to find a situation that mirrors theirs so they can use it as a roadmap, thank you.

Thank you @[Pa...]! Crazy that the chemo side-effects and benzo withdrawal symptoms overlap! Yup, they do! (And there are truly horrific side-effects, too, that I, very thankfully, have not experienced and hope that I never do!)

It IS the tip of my tongue! I wonder if I'm doing something like you did! Entirely possible!! I'm going to monitor that! Huh! 

To be honest, my body probably doesn't really like the fruit snacks - so much - but sometimes my brain gangs up on my body and eats them anyway. My brain is mostly winning.    I do feel better - a lot better - when I avoid sugar and the inflammation that comes with it. I can do better but some days, the fruit snacks are my downfall. And Lorna Doones (cookies). I really like those. Sigh. I know better. I do. 

Yes! I'm going to keep posting for exactly that reason! Even if people don't comment, I know they are looking for situations that are similar to their own, and my taper hasn't been awful, and I want that one person who is in a similar situation to be able to find some positive. I wish more people with good experiences would post! 

Thank you, again! I always appreciate your support and insights. I still can't believe how much better I am doing than I was in 2015. Big C, aside, this taper is going much better. I am so grateful for this site!!

Jess