The Long Hold Support Group

[[In...]]

Trish,

 

Youre doing fantastic now. You got your gumption up and are fighting for yourself. Keep it up. Its your body and your brain.

 

Im glad that your doctor is working with you.

[[In...]]

baddove,

 

Here is some more of my thoughts are your situation. I agree with Stut and gard about splitting up your daily doses in 4 or more depending on how you feel.

 

And Stut mentioned doing that and then trying to hold and stabilize. That makes good sense also. When others post ideas they have, it often get others to consider those ideas, and thats what Im doing. So to me, Stut made very good sense with that suggestion.

 

I do know about Prilosec as I mentioned earlier, and the generic is omeprazole. I looked this up on "Dr. Google." And it definitely enhances the effects of Xanax. The interaction is such that it amplifies the effect that Xanax is having on your system. Oddly enough, omeprazole will not work the same way with valium. It does interfere with the absorption of valium, so users of both meds may want to put several hours between PPIs and valium. I do this anyway, and Im using clonazepam as I mentioned earlier. Its a precaution I take.

 

As far as Seroquel, its an antipsychotic with sleep enhancing properties. Im not sure why you are taking it, and Im not sure why doctors prescibe it for benzo patients. It could be for sleep, and/or possible intrusive thoughts, a touch of paranoia? Im just not sure why. But again, you are on a large dose of seroquel so that could also cause problems. I found a post from nova 1 on the Long Term Users Support Group that possibly explains a problem here. I copied it, so lets see if I can paste it.

 

Benzodiazepines are designed to dissolve in lipids to cross from the bloodstream into the brain. Because women have more body fat, the drugs can linger in their system longer, potentially causing toxicity and side effects at lower doses. 

 

Psychotropic Drugs Affect Men and Women Differently http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/psychotropic-drugs-affect-men-and-women-differently/ I am also going to post this link as a stand alone thread on the Forum as people need to know this information.

 

So there it is. Nova 1 refers first to benzos and then provides the link to the article that she found this in. And this is significant to me. You are a woman, and men and women are physically different so there may be some problems with toxcity with both the Xanax and the Seroquel.

 

 

I just discovered that on my ipad, I can click that link, go to the article, and then go directly back to post itself. On my computer, I can go to the link and get the article, but it does not allow me to go back to the post. I often have this trouble with my computer. Is it me or is my computer? Who knows? All that important is that the info is there. This post of Nova"s is on page 24 of the Long Term Users Support Group, and is post #236 in case anyone wants to read the entire post.

 

 

 

[[Su...]]

 

 

TMB -- I think that what you are going through is most likely w/d brain on steroids.  I have read about lots of folks who have had successful surgeries etc after tapering. Just saying that as that's what the sneaky undercurrent of thinking can convince us of...

I know that the thinking gets things out of proportion but I wanted to say that.  CBT is tough!  great tool but tough when there is a sneaky anxiety driven undercurrent of thinking -- but please keep that in mind.  It's a sneaky undercurrent of thinking.... sure gets me! Especially when I haven't been sleeping well.

 

SS, sneaky is right. Amazing how those intrusive thoughts slip through and take over.

 

And TMB, in all the research that I did on-line I found nothing that said that opiates and benzos were cross tolerant.  Lots about benzos being cross tolerant to other benzos, lots about opiates being cross tolerant to other opiates.  I believe that the meds work on very different systems in out systems...

 

wishing you the best in your house sale and move etc..... you';ve been through a lot and you can make it through this -- of this I'm sure. And remember we've got your back here and are ready to hear here.... 

:smitten:

SS

 

[[Su...]]

G'Morning all,

Thanks for the early greeting Stut, have a great day with you sis.

Welcome dtrain, This is a solid and fun group to be part of....

 

BG -- the wise and kind.... thank you

 

NJ -- no nausea for two hours -- so glad to hear that...

 

TMB -- I think that what you are going through is most likely w/d brain on steroids.  I have read about lots of folks who have had successful surgeries etc after tapering. Just saying that as that's what the sneaky undercurrent of thinking can convince us of...

I know that the thinking gets things out of proportion but I wanted to say that.  CBT is tough!  great tool but tough when there is a sneaky anxiety driven undercurrent of thinking -- but please keep that in mind.  It's a sneaky undercurrent of thinking.... sure gets me! Especially when I haven't been sleeping well.

 

Cant -- 9 years of jobs!  sounds like out backyard.  And extra kids, did I read that somewhere?  Hope all settles down with eating....

 

I know I've missed people in this greeting but please know that I think of all of you, and that all of us are part of this team.  It really feels like a team effort is the way to get off this stuff..

 

Day 21 of my hold and I can really sense my CNS is settling in a way that it hasn't been able to for about a year and a half.... whew..

I really have this sense now that the CNS was "on fire" from the interdose w/d that led me to tapering and it really has been "simmering" for the last 1.5 years as I tapered.  This hold is putting out the fire!  I can see and hope that tapering after this will be different... (fingers crossed emoji)  And I'm still planning on holding for three months......

 

:smitten:

SS

 

I am so happy your hold is working.  I am only down 2.24 of my 15 mg Valium and am already having to slow way down.  I am so disappointed.  I was really hoping to get to 10 before I had to crawl.....Valium and my muscles just don't get along.  But, I am still thrilled for you SS.  I am going to cautiously sneak off sometime behind you....look over your shoulder and I'll be there and knowing you're waiting on me will inspire me ❤️ 

 

Oh I'm sorry to hear that you had to slow down, and delighted that you know that's what you have to do.  I know that so many docs, mine included said that Valium is "much easier to taper than Xanax" but I'm thinking that it's not easier, it's simply different.  Muscles seem to be much more involved in the whole thing.

Just saying I'll bet we're neck in neck with this turtle race to get off  sauntering, oh so slowly and purposefully to an end of all this. 

:smitten:

SS

(I'm still on island time and on the island so I'm kind of sneaking onto BB to write this.....)

 

[[In...]]

SS,

 

I read that cross tolerance "stuff" on Wikipedia. It can be a good resource, and sometimes not. They do work on different receptors. I read that also on some other site.

[[Ma...]]

G'Morning all,

Thanks for the early greeting Stut, have a great day with you sis.

Welcome dtrain, This is a solid and fun group to be part of....

 

BG -- the wise and kind.... thank you

 

NJ -- no nausea for two hours -- so glad to hear that...

 

TMB -- I think that what you are going through is most likely w/d brain on steroids.  I have read about lots of folks who have had successful surgeries etc after tapering. Just saying that as that's what the sneaky undercurrent of thinking can convince us of...

I know that the thinking gets things out of proportion but I wanted to say that.  CBT is tough!  great tool but tough when there is a sneaky anxiety driven undercurrent of thinking -- but please keep that in mind.  It's a sneaky undercurrent of thinking.... sure gets me! Especially when I haven't been sleeping well.

 

Cant -- 9 years of jobs!  sounds like out backyard.  And extra kids, did I read that somewhere?  Hope all settles down with eating....

 

I know I've missed people in this greeting but please know that I think of all of you, and that all of us are part of this team.  It really feels like a team effort is the way to get off this stuff..

 

Day 21 of my hold and I can really sense my CNS is settling in a way that it hasn't been able to for about a year and a half.... whew..

I really have this sense now that the CNS was "on fire" from the interdose w/d that led me to tapering and it really has been "simmering" for the last 1.5 years as I tapered.  This hold is putting out the fire!  I can see and hope that tapering after this will be different... (fingers crossed emoji)  And I'm still planning on holding for three months......

 

:smitten:

SS

 

I am so happy your hold is working.  I am only down 2.24 of my 15 mg Valium and am already having to slow way down.  I am so disappointed.  I was really hoping to get to 10 before I had to crawl.....Valium and my muscles just don't get along.  But, I am still thrilled for you SS.  I am going to cautiously sneak off sometime behind you....look over your shoulder and I'll be there and knowing you're waiting on me will inspire me ❤️ 

 

Oh I'm sorry to hear that you had to slow down, and delighted that you know that's what you have to do.  I know that so many docs, mine included said that Valium is "much easier to taper than Xanax" but I'm thinking that it's not easier, it's simply different.  Muscles seem to be much more involved in the whole thing.

Just saying I'll bet we're neck in neck with this turtle race to get off  sauntering, oh so slowly and purposefully to an end of all this. 

:smitten:

SS

(I'm still on island time and on the island so I'm kind of sneaking onto BB to write this.....)

 

G'Morning all,up

Thanks for the early greeting Stut, have a great day with you sis.

Welcome dtrain, This is a solid and fun group to be part of....

 

BG -- the wise and kind.... thank you

 

NJ -- no nausea for two hours -- so glad to hear that...

 

TMB -- I think that what you are going through is most likely w/d brain on steroids.  I have read about lots of folks who have had successful surgeries etc after tapering. Just saying that as that's what the sneaky undercurrent of thinking can convince us of...

I know that the thinking gets things out of proportion but I wanted to say that.  CBT is tough!  great tool but tough when there is a sneaky anxiety driven undercurrent of thinking -- but please keep that in mind.  It's a sneaky undercurrent of thinking.... sure gets me! Especially when I haven't been sleeping well.

 

Cant -- 9 years of jobs!  sounds like out backyard.  And extra kids, did I read that somewhere?  Hope all settles down with eating....

 

I know I've missed people in this greeting but please know that I think of all of you, and that all of us are part of this team.  It really feels like a team effort is the way to get off this stuff..

 

Day 21 of my hold and I can really sense my CNS is settling in a way that it hasn't been able to for about a year and a half.... whew..

I really have this sense now that the CNS was "on fire" from the interdose w/d that led me to tapering and it really has been "simmering" for the last 1.5 years as I tapered.  This hold is putting out the fire!  I can see and hope that tapering after this will be different... (fingers crossed emoji)  And I'm still planning on holding for three months......

 

:smitten:

SS

 

I am so happy your hold is working.  I am only down 2.24 of my 15 mg Valium and am already having to slow way down.  I am so disappointed.  I was really hoping to get to 10 before I had to crawl.....Valium and my muscles just don't get along.  But, I am still thrilled for you SS.  I am going to cautiously sneak off sometime behind you....look over your shoulder and I'll be there and knowing you're waiting on me will inspire me ❤️ 

 

Oh I'm sorry to hear that you had to slow down, and delighted that you know that's what you have to do.  I know that so many docs, mine included said that Valium is "much easier to taper than Xanax" but I'm thinking that it's not easier, it's simply different.  Muscles seem to be much more involved in the whole thing.

Just saying I'll bet we're neck in neck with this turtle race to get off  sauntering, oh so slowly and purposefully to an end of all this. 

:smitten:

SS

(I'm still on island time and on the island so I'm kind of sneaking onto BB to write this.....)

 

I'm writing this very quietly so no one knows you're here.  Thank u for responding ❤️

[[To...]]

 

 

TMB -- I think that what you are going through is most likely w/d brain on steroids.  I have read about lots of folks who have had successful surgeries etc after tapering. Just saying that as that's what the sneaky undercurrent of thinking can convince us of...

I know that the thinking gets things out of proportion but I wanted to say that.  CBT is tough!  great tool but tough when there is a sneaky anxiety driven undercurrent of thinking -- but please keep that in mind.  It's a sneaky undercurrent of thinking.... sure gets me! Especially when I haven't been sleeping well.

 

SS, sneaky is right. Amazing how those intrusive thoughts slip through and take over.

 

And TMB, in all the research that I did on-line I found nothing that said that opiates and benzos were cross tolerant.  Lots about benzos being cross tolerant to other benzos, lots about opiates being cross tolerant to other opiates.  I believe that the meds work on very different systems in out systems...

 

wishing you the best in your house sale and move etc..... you';ve been through a lot and you can make it through this -- of this I'm sure. And remember we've got your back here and are ready to hear here.... 

:smitten:

SS

Thank you, SS. I think I got confused when I saw articles about opiates and benzos taken together being a potential problem and I conflated that into they are cross-tolerant. I get confused easily these days....

 

 

[[...]]

I just wanted to say hi  to everyone , I'm still here , I haven't caught up on back posts, but I hope everyone is hanging on with whatever is happening for them .

 

I'm holding my dose, it's been a pretty rough couple of weeks , I'm hoping things might improve before I try again.

 

Sending love and healing thoughts to all ,

MiYu

 

 

 

[[Su...]]

 

 

TMB -- I think that what you are going through is most likely w/d brain on steroids.  I have read about lots of folks who have had successful surgeries etc after tapering. Just saying that as that's what the sneaky undercurrent of thinking can convince us of...

I know that the thinking gets things out of proportion but I wanted to say that.  CBT is tough!  great tool but tough when there is a sneaky anxiety driven undercurrent of thinking -- but please keep that in mind.  It's a sneaky undercurrent of thinking.... sure gets me! Especially when I haven't been sleeping well.

 

SS, sneaky is right. Amazing how those intrusive thoughts slip through and take over.

 

And TMB, in all the research that I did on-line I found nothing that said that opiates and benzos were cross tolerant.  Lots about benzos being cross tolerant to other benzos, lots about opiates being cross tolerant to other opiates.  I believe that the meds work on very different systems in out systems...

 

wishing you the best in your house sale and move etc..... you';ve been through a lot and you can make it through this -- of this I'm sure. And remember we've got your back here and are ready to hear here.... 

:smitten:

SS

Thank you, SS. I think I got confused when I saw articles about opiates and benzos taken together being a potential problem and I conflated that into they are cross-tolerant. I get confused easily these days....

Me too....

 

[[no...]]

Hi Guys  I am back here again as I had to get a private Dr before the NHS one finished me off, ripping me off way too fast ( I had some money put aside I had spent ages saving for badly needed new furniture but that's going to have to wait now  ) and even when I cut the amount I was cutting by lower than he said it was still too much too fast, and I was going from worse to worst and he's up dosed me and is letting me dictate my own taper so I need to hold until the up dose kicks in. And I can hold for as long as I need until I feel ready to taper again, he's leaving it all in my hands as even he said you need to taper from as stable a point to start off and hold sometimes, or go back to your last stable dose hold until your stable again. Or you feel ready to cut then continue tapering as long as your going down at the rate you can cope with you will get there. He even said its going to be a long haul as I come under ''Chronic use'' due to the many year's and the dose I was on as well , plus I need to move AGAIN  It was okay here until the bloke next door stropped working and now its the psycho couple from hell continuously having brain rattling rows and banging all hours.

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten: :smitten:

[[He...]]

Good to see you here Nova!  You have been missed!

 

Well that’s good news! .... Your doc is letting you handle your own taper as you see fit! And he is letting you dictate the dose that you were feeling stable on, and go back to it before you start your taper again! Andhe is letting you go at your own pace.

Sounds like a gem!  He even said it’s going to be a long haul! Sounds like this guy really understands benzo withdrawal!  I am so happy for you!

 

Sorry about the new screaming neighbors. Maybe some earplugs will give you some relief!

 

But hey, yourgood news outweighs the annoying neighbors by far!

 

Yay! Good for you! I hope this is the beginning of a smooth ride to the end of your taper for you!

Peace and patience  my friend❤️😊

Heathcliff

 

 

[[He...]]

So....I’ve been recording and watching Lester Holts nightly news on NBC for two shows so far.....no benzo  segments! 

I’ll keep watching and recording...but what’s going on..."I hope it airs pretty soon!

Heath

[[St...]]

Good morning Begood Cant Heath Mary Miyu SS TMB Green Trish lntend esperanza Trish baddove Julliana and anyone else l have missed l hope everyone has a long period of stability today.

    Love Stut X

[[St...]]

Hi Mary thank you for your kind words.l hope you are getting some relief from your pain.

  Love Stut X

[[St...]]

Hi Nova thank goodness you were able to fund a different GP.Having said that you really shouldn't have had to.l hope you are going to send in a letter of complaint to the health board.

  I hope you get somewhere to live soon maybe more in the country setting.

  Hang in there.

    Love Stut X

[[no...]]

Good to see you here Nova!  You have been missed!

 

Well that’s good news! .... Your doc is letting you handle your own taper as you see fit! And he is letting you dictate the dose that you were feeling stable on, and go back to it before you start your taper again! Andhe is letting you go at your own pace.

Sounds like a gem!  He even said it’s going to be a long haul! Sounds like this guy really understands benzo withdrawal!  I am so happy for you!

 

Sorry about the new screaming neighbors. Maybe some earplugs will give you some relief!

 

But hey, yourgood news outweighs the annoying neighbors by far!

 

Yay! Good for you! I hope this is the beginning of a smooth ride to the end of your taper for you!

Peace and patience  my friend❤️😊

Heathcliff

Thanks Heath  I must have every set of ears plugs ever invented plus industrial ear defenders, noise cancelling head pones, they used to help but once my symptoms got out of control they hurt way too much to use and made matters worse  Anyway hopefully my poor ears will settle done along with the frying brain burning brain and non stop body burning, and the excruciating pain I have physical and mental symptoms a BIG list but those and the anxiety  and intrusive thoughts is what bothers me mot the last few year's. And that lot kicked doff when I went form cutting 0.5 a month or 0.5 cuts even further apart than that to a ''conservative'' Ashton cuts 1mg a month  instead of very week or 2 HUGE mistake

 

Anyway its taken the pressure off now and they don't inform the NHS about anything unless you ask them too them too but I said  NO!! on all accounts I hate NHS Doctors, well the arse hole GP's I've been landed with over the years. I only wished I looked into private before now but I thought it would be way beyond what I could scrape together, well actually this Guy is a private shrink  well that's what he's doing as a job now  BUT..He's also a qualified Pharmacologist, Surgeon, MD,  and some other medical whatever Honors, master's degrees  coming outta his butt

 

 

The most expensive round is the first consultation as it takes an hour or more as he needs to know a lot of stuff about you and what other drugs your on legal or illegal what you took in the past health problems etc. Then its 50% less there after and you only see him every 2 to 3 months then anyway as he can't just write out prescriptions for Benzodiazepines  as its a controlled drug and he likes to have a cut to see how your doing as well. So I can stop panicking about being cut off eventually, I've been in such a state of constant worry for so long regarding that plus the long term and non stop anxiety paranoia my poor brain needs time to let go of that notion.

 

And the up-dose needs time to settle into place as well, the other thing people don't realize is up-dosing can also make you feel rough  for a while until you stablise.  But he also said it may be a case of having to titrate up or down whatever I feel I need to do when I see him again in 2 months time, so at last my own fate regarding getting the hell off, and how I do it is in MY control not some random Dr that knows F.A. That's going to take some getting use to after so many year's of medical abuse and the NHS Dictating my life, and telling me I'm ''Mentally ill'' for nearly 40 year's? !"£$%^&*  and all the time it was the effing Benzo's THEY put me on after yet another misdiagnosis

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Hi Nova thank goodness you were able to fund a different GP.Having said that you really shouldn't have had to.l hope you are going to send in a letter of complaint to the health board.

  I hope you get somewhere to live soon maybe more in the country setting.

  Hang in there.

    Love Stut X

Thanks Stut  I am definitely going to be going on a mega letter writing and phone call spree to everywhere I can think of not just for myself but for everyone whose suffering at the hands of Dr's and the medical industry that got no idea about Benzo withdrawal and the hell they put people into 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

PS you've been doing a bang up job maintaining this thread old girl  xxxx

[[Dt...]]

Hi everyone!!

 

Stut sorry to hear about your frustrations - how annoying. I hope it gets sorted soon.

 

Nova - you poor thing what a history... I hope the pain subsides and you get some reprieve soon.

 

I'm so impressed at everyone's strength and determination!

Anyone have trouble tapering on V? They say it's the longest lasting but I get awful interdose WDs... Dosing 3 X daily. Maybe it's tolerance...

Didn't find it with K maybe coz I'd never been prescribed it before.

 

Oh these benzos 🙄

 

I hope everyone has a nice day and one step closer to being healed 😘

[[St...]]

Thank God Nova you at last have a say which l think is so important.l would if l were you definitely wouldn't stop trying to get the message through.l know the Daily Mail is trying to highlight the dangers of benzos so hopefully it will have a drip drip effect. I hope to God things settle down for you sooner rather than later.The girl that runs bataid.org has said to give it at least 6 months and then assess where you are.

    Thank you l talk on here as l know how vulnerable you feel on this forum and if you come to a new thread you can feel a bit left out like you don't fit in if that makes sense. I still feel that sometimes lol.

  Love Stut X

[[Ca...]]

Hi Stut..

Hi Everyone..!!

Hi New faces..

 

Just reading atm, But doing ok.. SX have been a bit odd..

Am just back from a little ride...

-not much to add that hasnt been said...

 

4x dosing for Baddove perhaps.. -And look at removing the Omep... perhaps..??

 

Take care Guys..

[[St...]]

Hi Dtrain l have never had a problem sadly l would imagine it's probably due to tolerance.Sadly that is very common.

    Love Stut X

[[St...]]

Hi Cant still able to get out on your travels which is a good sign.Hope everything settles down soon.

  Love Stut X

[[be...]]

[glow=red,2,300]"Sista,"[/glow] good for you, your battle has been long and tough, but that is what Warriors do, they battle on until they find a way off the battlefield. This new guy sounds like he will be the help you have been seeking. Stay Strong as you are, and thanks for letting us know. I agree with Stut a nice place in the County, sadly it is really hard to find the peace and quiet in an Apt in the City.

 

Keep us imformed of your progress, we are all here rooting for you. 💖 Peace and Healing Hugs My Friend.

[[be...]]

Hi Stut..

Hi Everyone..!!

Hi New faces..

 

Just reading atm, But doing ok.. SX have been a bit odd..

Am just back from a little ride...

-not much to add that hasnt been said...

 

4x dosing for Baddove perhaps.. -And look at removing the Omep... perhaps..??

 

Take care Guys..

Evening Cant, good to hear that rode your bike. Hang in there, one day you will be well, and I think it is more visible on the horizon now, gosh it takes a lot of time and patience, but it is so worth it. Stay Strong. 💖 Peace and Healing Hugs My Friend.

[[no...]]

Hi everyone!!

 

Stut sorry to hear about your frustrations - how annoying. I hope it gets sorted soon.

 

Nova - you poor thing what a history... I hope the pain subsides and you get some reprieve soon.

 

I'm so impressed at everyone's strength and determination!

Anyone have trouble tapering on V? They say it's the longest lasting but I get awful interdose WDs... Dosing 3 X daily. Maybe it's tolerance...

Didn't find it with K maybe coz I'd never been prescribed it before.

 

Oh these benzos 🙄

 

I hope everyone has a nice day and one step closer to being healed 😘

 

Thanks Dtrain  Good 80's group bad train to ride!!    Anyway below is what's probably happening to you if your holding your dose 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

Thank you for verifying what I kind of suspected. There has been, and continues to be that window/wave pattern to this hold. I actually wasn't sure if this was something unique to me, but even then, I figured I just had to continue holding whether it is unique or not.

 

And now that the 6 month time has past, I'm going through another wave. So I'll definitely be continuing the hold. I didn't realize that this was typical of benzos at all, but its more knowledge that not only helps me "cope," but it's knowledge I think I need to be able to relay to others if the need arises. It almost feels like "Part 2" is happening now with this continuation as sx are changing, and yet they still are definitely sx of an unstable CNS.

 

I have to admit that the hold itself with these windows and waves is a stressor all by itself. When the windows occur, I'm consistently myself all day and evening, and this lasts for about a month to 6 weeks, but with that last two weeks I start slipping into a wave kind of gradually, and I don't always see it coming. And then, I'm fully in that wave, and I'm not me consistently throughout the day, and it's even hard to fully remember how good I felt during the window. And it feels kind of awful with some emotional, physical and cognitive sx.

 

I'm glad I'm here too! Thank you for saying that. I've learned a lot the hard way about benzos, and I'm glad to share what I do know.