The Long Hold Support Group

[[Tr...]]

I've never heard of liquid Xanax but I think I like that idea especially when I get myself down to a much lower dose in the very distant future. I like easy !! 

Hi Trish,

I think the cuts are just way to big to "pill split" on X..  (in general, because some do manage it)

No idea on the book, but pls do let us know, if you end up reading it..

 

Hi Everyone.. (not even sure on my name right now..)

-Back to sleep now for me... -It was a non event last night...

My best to All...

 

Miyu, Ta for the yellow M&Ms.. :)

 

Hi, Can't, MiYu,

Thank goodness I have time to figure it all out..uhgg it's so confusing.

I bought the book and I'll let you know if it's any good, only read a little so far..

Good night miYu!! Sleep well!

Good night everyone!! Or Good day or morning

Love to all on LHSG and thanks so much to you all! MUAH!!

Trish

[[Tr...]]

I've never heard of liquid Xanax but I think I like that idea especially when I get myself down to a much lower dose in the very distant future. I like easy !! 

 

It's called intensol by Roxane. Your pharmacist will know. And someone on the Titration (tapering with liquids) Board can tell you how to work with it. One of the best things about tapering Xanax and Valium is they come already as a liquid so you don't have to dissolve your tablets. You can make much smaller, much more accurate, much less painful cuts when you use a liquid and an oral syringe rather than a pill splitter.

 

Thanks Gard,

Sounds like the way to go, less painful sounds good to me!! I'm going to check into it.. I'm glad I have time!!

Goodnight Gard sleep well!!

Trish 

 

 

 

 

[[es...]]

Trishy, I have a liquid titration for K. All it is is a cherry syrup with the medicine suspended by a pharmacist. They are trained to do that. I can’t imagine why it could not be done with any medicine. I am going to control my taper from now on and my doctor can just write “take as needed” as the dosage for the bottle label. You would just get what would be a months supply at a time.  It is the doctor’s job to do the math. I agree that it might help if your therapist called. If you make it clear that you know other people who are doing this, it may be less likely that you will be told it can’t be done.  There are people who cannot swallow pills. It is done all the time. If your doctor is the one who put you on this, he owes at least this much to you.  If not, he is a doctor and he should be doing his job to help you get through this terrible process.  I have noticed that there is a tendency to minimize withdrawal and scoff at slow tapers and it is almost like a way to deny the truth about what they may have done. I tried to explain my symptoms and was cut off.  What does that say? You are a paying customer. Health care at least in the US is not a gift( should be a right). You deserve to get the help that your doctor has contracted with you to provide. It is bad enough what has been done to us all. We shouldn’t have to beg. My two cents, for what it’s worth, Esperanza

[[He...]]

Hi Trish,

,

I use liquid Valium by Roxane. It’s  the best thing that ever happeNed to my taper. I can only make the tiniest cuts with ease.(.001) if I have to.

I encourage you to try using liquid Xanax if you can get it.

 

Heath

[[St...]]

Good morning begood Cant Heath Valley Gard Miyu Olive Barbara Trish SS Laura Mary Esperanza TMB NJ Gard Bluepill and all buddies here l hope all have a peaceful day.

      Love Stut X

[[be...]]

Good morning begood Cant Heath Valley Gard Miyu Olive Barbara Trish SS Laura Mary Esperanza TMB NJ Gard Bluepill and all buddies here l hope all have a peaceful day.

      Love Stut X

Good morning Stut, hope this day is a good one for you, but I know you will make the most of it, and do what you can. As Cant would say "Onward and Upward". 💖 Peace and Healing Hugs.  

[[Tr...]]

Good morning Stut!

Hope you had a restful night last night.

Mine was very restless    I hope your day is a happy one!

Trish

[[Tr...]]

Hi Trish,

,

I use liquid Valium by Roxane. It’s  the best thing that ever happeNed to my taper. I can only make the tiniest cuts with ease.(.001) if I have to.

I encourage you to try using liquid Xanax if you can get it.

 

Heath

 

Hi Heath , Esperanza

I see there are a lot of fans of the liquid ! As I get lower in dosage I think that would be helpful. I need to keep it simple and as easy as possible. Thanks ladies and to everyone else as well who weighed in on this. Much appreciated!!

Trish

[[St...]]

Where is the old bald man Cant l hope you are over the flu?

  Love Stut X

[[Sc...]]

Just wanted to say thanks for all who replied the other day been off here. Heath, trishy, Stut, Esperanza, can’t, everybody this is a great group.

Speaking of liquid, do most recommend pharm made liquid.

Loving thoughts toma great group.SC

[[Tr...]]

Hey SC,

Hope you're doing well! I think they are taking about pharm made liquid. I'm thinking about it for myself down the road.. I'm sure you'll get an answer soon. Have a great day!

Trish

[[Sc...]]

Thanks trishy, xx SC

[[Gr...]]

Hey Guys! 

 

I have been holding for almost FOUR MONTHS now and yes, things are so much better.

 

I made a breakthrough with my anger.  I have unresolved anger from things that happened when I was younger, and you know, I always knew about theses things, but I truly think that taking benzos and medicalizing my anxiety made me NEVER PAY ATTENTION to my anger or anxiety, which for me apparently, are very very similar, and maybe the same thing.  I am probably going to go to a therapist in the future to try and work some of this stuff out.  But for now, at least I know what it is, and I have more control over how I react.

 

Also, we are buying a house!  And moving in August.  So I am going to be holding until this move is over.  We are going to moving to a completely new place.  I really wanted to be done with my taper before we did that, but this is as far as I got. 

[[ga...]]

Just wanted to say thanks for all who replied the other day been off here. Heath, trishy, Stut, Esperanza, can’t, everybody this is a great group.

Speaking of liquid, do most recommend pharm made liquid.

Loving thoughts toma great group.SC

 

Tutorial time! There are 2 kinds of liquids. Either can be homemade or purchased (made by a factory or a pharmacy).

 

Liquefied benzos can be either suspensions or solutions.

 

Suspensions use a think liquid to hold the tiny particles equally dispersed in the liquid. If you see medication that says "shake well" it is probably a suspension. Given enough time, the particles will settle and need to be shaken back up again to redistribute them.

 

Solutions have the medication dissolved in a solvent (such as alcohol or PG) then diluted with water to the desired strength. These kinds of medications do not say "shake well" because the particles are dissolved and will not settle.

 

As far as I know, the only 2 benzos that are factory-made as liquids are Xanax and Valium. They are solutions. You can add water to make them easier to measure. They will still be solutions. The medication will not settle out.

 

A pharmacy can make a medication into a suspension using a special, thick liquid to suspend the tiny particles so they don't settle. Not all insurance will pay for this. Some people buy a suspending agent (such as OraPlus) and make their own suspension. 

 

I think most buddies are making their own solutions using a very small amount of 80 proof vodka to dissolve their drug and water to dilute it enough so they can measure it easily.

 

There is old information on the web, particularly youtube, showing people trying to suspend benzos in water. This is a bad idea. Water is not thick. The particles fall back out again in seconds. The videos may even say you are dissolving the benzo in water. You are not. Benzos do not dissolve in water. (Librium is a semi-exception, but I won't get into that here.) If you want to use liquid, I urge you to go to the Titration Board and learn how to do it properly.

 

I do not make 5% cuts or 10% cuts of my drug ever. I do a daily micro-taper. Micro means the size of the cut is very small. I make a tiny cut every day. Making an Ashton-sized cut is like jumping from the 2nd floor of your house to the 1st floor in one big jump and then waiting weeks or months to recover from the impact. Daily micro-tapering is like using a staircase to go down from the 2nd floor to the 1st floor. The impact of each small step is much less than jumping all the way in one big jump. We are on wobbly legs, so even small steps can cause symptoms, but they are not as bad as jumping the whole distance and landing in a crash. The micro-taper method is becoming more and more popular. People are cutting every day or every few days, whatever suits them, instead of once/month.

 

It is almost impossible to make accurate micro-cuts with a tablet. It is super easy to make micro-cuts with a liquid. This is why so many buddies use liquids.

 

Gard

[[Sc...]]

Much thanks, Gard! Be well

[[ga...]]

Much thanks, Gard! Be well

 

You, too, Scardie!

[[Tr...]]

Hey Guys! 

 

I have been holding for almost FOUR MONTHS now and yes, things are so much better.

 

I made a breakthrough with my anger.  I have unresolved anger from things that happened when I was younger, and you know, I always knew about theses things, but I truly think that taking benzos and medicalizing my anxiety made me NEVER PAY ATTENTION to my anger or anxiety, which for me apparently, are very very similar, and maybe the same thing.  I am probably going to go to a therapist in the future to try and work some of this stuff out.  But for now, at least I know what it is, and I have more control over how I react.

 

Also, we are buying a house!  And moving in August.  So I am going to be holding until this move is over.  We are going to moving to a completely new place.  I really wanted to be done with my taper before we did that, but this is as far as I got.

Hi Greencup,

Congrats on the new home! I wish you lots of love, peace and happiness in your new place. All the best to you!!

Trish

[[In...]]

Sc,

 

What Gard says is so true. Every word of it. A suspension will work, but a solution is way better.

 

I’ve known about the Roxanne liquid for xanax for quite awhile. I’m not at all sure of the cost because I’ve never looked into it. I’ve been doing the clonazepam as you know, so there was no need to get the xanax stuff. But I would look into it for the xanax taper folks if I were tapering xanax.

 

I’m making my own solution for the clonazepam, and I’ve done good with that. You can also do that.

 

Pretty simple overall. Just some basic instructions is all you need. Basic instructions by someone willing to answer questions and listen to you and your questions.

[[Tr...]]

Just wanted to say thanks for all who replied the other day been off here. Heath, trishy, Stut, Esperanza, can’t, everybody this is a great group.

Speaking of liquid, do most recommend pharm made liquid.

Loving thoughts toma great group.SC

 

Tutorial time! There are 2 kinds of liquids. Either can be homemade or purchased (made by a factory or a pharmacy).

 

Liquefied benzos can be either suspensions or solutions.

 

Suspensions use a think liquid to hold the tiny particles equally dispersed in the liquid. If you see medication that says "shake well" it is probably a suspension. Given enough time, the particles will settle and need to be shaken back up again to redistribute them.

 

Solutions have the medication dissolved in a solvent (such as alcohol or PG) then diluted with water to the desired strength. These kinds of medications do not say "shake well" because the particles are dissolved and will not settle.

 

As far as I know, the only 2 benzos that are factory-made as liquids are Xanax and Valium. They are solutions. You can add water to make them easier to measure. They will still be solutions. The medication will not settle out.

 

A pharmacy can make a medication into a suspension using a special, thick liquid to suspend the tiny particles so they don't settle. Not all insurance will pay for this. Some people buy a suspending agent (such as OraPlus) and make their own suspension. 

 

I think most buddies are making their own solutions using a very small amount of 80 proof vodka to dissolve their drug and water to dilute it enough so they can measure it easily.

 

There is old information on the web, particulate youtube, showing people trying to suspend benzos in water. This is a bad idea. Water is not thick. The particles fall back out again in seconds. The videos may even say you are dissolving the benzo in water. You are not. Benzos do not dissolve in water. (Librium is a semi-exception, but I won't get into that here.) If you want to use liquid, I urge you to go to the Titration Board and learn how to do it properly.

 

I do not make 5% cuts or 10% cuts of my drug ever. I do a daily micro-taper. Micro means the size of the cut is very small. I make a tiny cut every day. Making an Ashton-sized cut is like jumping from the 2nd floor of your house to the 1st floor in one big jump and then waiting weeks or months to recover from the impact. Daily micro-tapering is like using a staircase to go down from the 2nd floor to the 1st floor. The impact of each small step is much less than jumping all the way in one big jump. We are on wobbly legs, so even small steps can cause symptoms, but they are not as bad as jumping the whole distance and landing in a crash. The micro-taper method is becoming more and more popular. People are cutting every day or every few days, whatever suits them, instead of once/month.

 

It is almost impossible to make accurate micro-cuts with a tablet. It is super easy to make micro-cuts with a liquid. This is why so many buddies use liquids.

 

Gard

 

Gard,

I'm super impressed with your knowledge on this subject!!  I'll need you when it's time to go liquid for me!! Hope my insurance covers it and Dr approves!!

Trish 

[[es...]]

I am so glad that World Benzo Day is making every attempt to inform the public about the extreme dangers of benzodiazepines.  I have a question for the group: Do any of you wish you didn’t have to know at the start or middle of your taper the probability that you will lose two to three years of your life. That you may never be ok, or that the suffering you have now may continue or get worse with each passing day? I always thought if I was going to have something terrible happen in the future, and could not change it, it would be best not to know. I doubt anyone would want to really know how and when they would eventually die. Obviously, the truth must be told, but I feel my hope diminished. As I learn more and more each day. I am told by the medical establishment that most people come off with minimal side effects and heal quickly. Well, I already know I am not one of them. Does anyone know a person who discontinued without going through what we do?  Even the success stories are not that comforting. Most talk of long time periods of intense suffering and very few report feeling completely well post taper. Often, years have past, and a few symptoms remain. I am 67. I was on k for 17 years and still take prozac(not helpful, never should have been given). The prozac has its own discontinuation nightmare. My family needs me. No one can believe I might be this way for years. I am glad I know how I am feeling now is due to k.  That has been the knowledge I need to fight and to not listen to all the misinformation I get at doctor visits. I just think I might be better off if I did not know how bad my prognosis is. I need hope. Have any of you struggled with this? I feel like my life is over, even though my body is still alive. Are there really a majority out there who do well or is it another lie? Sorry to be so negative. I just feel depleted. Love to you all, Esperanza

[[In...]]

Trish,

 

Definitely look into it. It will make your taper a lot easier on you.

 

I wish I done it myself instead of crossing to clonazepam. Just hadn’t heard of it when I joined B.B.

 

I was totally benzo ignorant then. Doctor was too. Maybe we all were.

[[Tr...]]

Oh my Sweet Esperanza,

My heart breaks because I know how you struggle, we've talked and I feel your pain. It's also my pain and everyone else fighting this battle. I know it feels hopeless, but the success stories are out there and people really do heal. I think the horror stories are the ones where people go cold turkey or cut too fast, they force themselves or are pushed by an ignorant medical professional to be done in weeks!! This shouldn't happen but sadly it does. I think the ones who listen to their bodies and can go very, very slow do truly heal, if I didn't believe that I'd just keep trying to take the pills until I died. Some days as you know I feel like doing just that but something inside me says keep fighting there's light at the end of the tunnel. I know you feel discouraged, I often do too.. If it weren't for you and ALL the buddies I'd of already given up. Draw on the strength of this group and other's to keep you encouraged. Try to read as many success stories as possible and don't read the negative ones. Take this one day at a time with all the rest of us.... Repeat after me.. we will heal.. We will heal..

I might feel like you do today tomorrow but if I do I know where to come for the courage to keep going..LHSG.

 

BE WELL MY FRIEND,

Trish 

[[Tr...]]

Trish,

 

Definitely look into it. It will make your taper a lot easier on you.

 

I wish I done it myself instead of crossing to clonazepam. Just hadn’t heard of it when I joined B.B.

 

I was totally benzo ignorant then. Doctor was too. Maybe we all were.

 

Thanks Intend,

I'm definitely going to check into it, seems like it's the way to go!

I'm definitely benzodiazepine ignorant

Trish

[[NJ...]]

I am so glad that World Benzo Day is making every attempt to inform the public about the extreme dangers of benzodiazepines.  I have a question for the group: Do any of you wish you didn’t have to know at the start or middle of your taper the probability that you will lose two to three years of your life. That you may never be ok, or that the suffering you have now may continue or get worse with each passing day? I always thought if I was going to have something terrible happen in the future, and could not change it, it would be best not to know. I doubt anyone would want to really know how and when they would eventually die. Obviously, the truth must be told, but I feel my hope diminished. As I learn more and more each day. I am told by the medical establishment that most people come off with minimal side effects and heal quickly. Well, I already know I am not one of them. Does anyone know a person who discontinued without going through what we do?  Even the success stories are not that comforting. Most talk of long time periods of intense suffering and very few report feeling completely well post taper. Often, years have past, and a few symptoms remain. I am 67. I was on k for 17 years and still take prozac(not helpful, never should have been given). The prozac has its own discontinuation nightmare. My family needs me. No one can believe I might be this way for years. I am glad I know how I am feeling now is due to k.  That has been the knowledge I need to fight and to not listen to all the misinformation I get at doctor visits. I just think I might be better off if I did not know how bad my prognosis is. I need hope. Have any of you struggled with this? I feel like my life is over, even though my body is still alive. Are there really a majority out there who do well or is it another lie? Sorry to be so negative. I just feel depleted. Love to you all, Esperanza

 

Esperanza:

 

I am greatly struggling with these thoughts and have not been on BB much because I am definitely feeling depressed.

 

If I had realized how long it would take to get off klonopin and how sick I would be, I would not have begun tapering. I really didn't have symptoms on K I thought I had hit tolerance but I think back now and think I was just freaking out with grieving for my dad's death.

 

I know I need to be grateful that I am mostly functional and if you asked people I work with, and even my kids, they would not know that anything much is going on. I put on a good show. My kids know what is going on but I don't think they know how sick I really feel or how limiting it is (no big vacations, which makes me very sad, maybe next summer)

 

But inside, I am so very tired of not feeling 100 percent, and, for whatever reason, the nausea and other GI symptoms have been incredibly difficult the past six months. I just don't have any confidence left in terms of day to day, afraid to make plans or decisions because afraid I am not going to be well. Although I am finding I can throw up all night, not sleep, and still go to work, this is not ideal but it is do-able. But who wants to live like this? Especially when it is not something you can share with others, that is what I struggle with the most. If I had cancer and was this sick I would at least get some sympathy and be able to share what was going on. The silence that accompanies benzo withdrawal is very isolating.

 

A few years back when doing lots of bloodwork after pneumonia, I tested very high with ANA antibodies which could possibly suggest an autoimmune disease; I have a very strong history of this in my family tree. I decided not to get further testing done because I simply don't want to know what may lie ahead in my future.

 

I have had a rough week, one night of little sleep, and incredible nausea. I know I have to completely give up dairy, which I know is causing issues, but I really love my dairy and I feel like this is another loss. I went out for ice cream with my oldest who was dumped by his girlfriend last week and am paying for it today, but at least we had some nice family time together in the car. That matters and is important. I do have an appt. ,with a gastro Monday, which I am thankful for, I really feel I need more testing to rule out I don't know what.

 

And, in what is an ironic twist of fate, I was just this week offered a job from an organization that I never applied to! I have the weekend to think it over, but it would be a significant bump in salary and much, much closer to home, giving me back some of the time I am now losing in my crazy two hour a day commute with my new job. I am anxious though about making another change when I am not feeling well, but I guess it doesn't matter if I don't feel well ever, may as well feel sick closer to home with a nicer paycheck. I will lose option for FMLA leave though if I ever need it, as this is a smaller place. That does give me pause but I guess it is better not to plan for worst case scenarios. The commute is already wearing me down and causing significant stress, not to mention an added expense of having to cross a bridge into NYC every day. I am quite the road warrior, I will even drive into Manhattan.

 

I hope that everyone is doing well--afraid to name names, don't want to forget anyone. There have been new faces which is nice to see. Sorry I haven't been offering up support very much.

 

Hope everyone has a peaceful weekend.

[[In...]]

Esperanza,

 

I know exactly how you feel. I don’t think anyone knows for sure how it will be for them in the future in regards to taking benzos or in general.

 

I sure did not know that it could take years to taper a benzo though. But I do think you can succeed to minimize sx by doing it very slowly, holding when you need to, tapering the way that’s right for you.

 

I thought I could micro taper on a daily basis like so many others. I was even told by another benzo site that I had something wrong with me because I couldn’t do that. Well, they were wrong.

 

We are not clones of each other. I was told by another member that I needed to “find my pattern,” and she was right. I found my pattern by happenstance. I just happened onto it is what I mean.

 

Your way of tapering is your way. A lot of whether or not you will feel ok in the end depends on the way you taper and other factors like health, other meds, previously being on and off these psych drugs. Lots to mention here, but generally, just stay on a consistent dose, taper down slowly, as you near the 40 percent -50 percent of your original dose, lower your cut rate, and cut lower as you go down. Hold longer also if you feel you need to.

 

Just some suggestions that I learned. Hope it helps you.