The Long Hold Support Group

[[Sc...]]

Helooo good people,

Another question.

Hi again, also, anyone who’s tried to cut & hold then reinstated. I cut & held .25 out of 3.5 total daily of clonazapam 6/4-6/10 Can it take a few days to feel back to normal? Like some lingering jaw tension or fatigue or other withdrawal type symptoms?

Much thanks Scaredie xx

 

Yes, unfortunately sxs can pop up anytime but that def can cause it

Thank you, Mary

Reinstating can cause it? I cut & held about 7% 6/4-6/10

How long should any lingering sxs last?

[[Ma...]]

Helooo good people,

Another question.

Hi again, also, anyone who’s tried to cut & hold then reinstated. I cut & held .25 out of 3.5 total daily of clonazapam 6/4-6/10 Can it take a few days to feel back to normal? Like some lingering jaw tension or fatigue or other withdrawal type symptoms?

Much thanks Scaredie xx

 

Yes, unfortunately sxs can pop up anytime but that def can cause it

Thank you, Mary

Reinstating can cause it? I cut & held about 7% 6/4-6/10

How long should any lingering sxs last?

 

Everyone is different Scardie, there's no way to answer.  We all wish someone could give us def answers on when this will happen or that.  There just is no answer.  : . You have to go with the flow.  I know it isn't easy. :smitten:

[[...]]

I feel like I'm always behind. I just read through five pages and I'm not sure I remember much of it. I do know that I wanted to respond to specific comments......

 

I think MiYu asked me about my hold. After my CT I was a mess but I wanted desperately to get off of my benzo so I thouhgt that even though I was still housebound and had really bad anxiety daily, along with other sxs of course, I could start my taper. Bad idea. I kept trying though and I just kept getting worse. Finally about six months of trying to taper both my doctor and the moderator on SA suggested that I hold, plus I found this wonderful group and they suggested I hold too so hold I did. I had been holding about three months when I finally entered a window. It was amost a full year from the time of my CT. It was amazing. I decided I would start to taper after I enjoyed about a month of relief at least. That's when I recieved the new generic and had to do a crossover. I had heard that some people had a hard time with it so I decided to taper over for a month. It was awful. It must have been a big reduction. I went back into full blown w/d's and once I finished the taper over it was about another month before I got another window. So I held another month after that. It was a total of holding for six months before I decided to try tapering again and then I only did really tiny tapers and I hold if I get exhausted by the w/d's that the tiny taper causes. Anyway, that's my holding story. I hope it helps. I will tell you it is hard to hold. The brain wants to keep going and get off these meds but holding was the best thing I ever did.

 

Scardie,  I agree so much with what everyone has been saying. If you need to updose to regain functionality and that's what's right for you then that's what you should do. We will support you no matter what choice you make. I agree with some of the others that maybe you try just a partial updose first to see how that goes. No harm in trying. As MiYu said it's all trial and error and then we try something else. We're all just trying to figure this thing out and we're all different in what we need.  Stay strong and do what's best for you.  :smitten: :hug:

 

MiYu, I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling. I find it amazing how tapering such tiny amounts can cause w/d sxs. I have asked my pdoc about it repeatedly and he says he doesn't know why such tiny amounts cause us problems. How long have you tried to hold for in the past? I don't know if there is any rhythm to tapering. Our brains and bodies are constatly changing and we have to adjust for all the new situations in our lives.

 

Heath, I'm sorry to hear that you are hurting so much. Did I read that your brother-in-law passed away. If so I'm so very sorry to hear that. My brother-in-law passed away this past February and it was and has been a hard thing. My heart is with you. Treat youself like you would a good friend and I like that idea of super gluing yourself to the turtle, lol. 

 

Barbara, I hope that you find a way to deal with your tooth. I had to have one pulled after it cracked through the root and I know that pain is no fun, especially when you're dealing with w/d too. Stay strong, you can do it. 

 

Big hugs and healing to everyone, Stut, Heath, MiYu, Scaredie, TMB, BG, is CanDo still on here, Can't and so many others that are new and have been here awhile alike.

 

Thinking of you all,  :smitten: :hug:

T

Hi tntd,

Thanks for the great informative & supportive response. The support means all the world to me. I decided to reinstate until after crossover & travel. Maybe hold for a month. Trust me I want off this junk as fast as we all do, but now isn’t my time. Figure out what generic I’m going to be on, then try again, slower, & no doubt a different method that involves MT, that hopefully somehow I’ll be able to figure out how to do, with much help.

 

I copy & paste part of what you said because I have questions.

You wrote:

After my CT I was a mess but I wanted desperately to get off of my benzo so I thouhgt that even though I was still housebound and had really bad anxiety daily, along with other sxs of course, I could start my taper. Bad idea. I kept trying though and I just kept getting worse. Finally about six months of trying to taper both my doctor and the moderator on SA suggested that I hold, plus I found this wonderful group and they suggested I hold too so hold I did.

 

Are you saying that you were cold turkeyed off of your clonazapam prior to beginning taper here?

 

Off how much & for how long had you been on it?

 

If you were cold turkeyed, how long before you reinstated? Did you reinstate at same dose you CT?

 

Do you think that CT is affecting your taper now?

 

Much thanks for continuid support-best wishes

Love Scaredie

 

Hi Scardie,

 

I hope that you feel better quickly after you updose and that it helps you to be able to accomplish the things you need to accomplish. I would recommend holding until you have been stable a couple of weeks as that will give you some time to rest and recuperate but that's just my opnion.

 

It can take awhile to stabilize after an updose as well. As was mentioned by Mary, I think, everyone is different so there is no way to know how long it will take for you to stabilize.

 

I don't know if this is still the case but the reason they took me off of actavis was because the manufacturer was out of the medication and they didn't know when or if they would get any back in stock. I went looking for it at different pharmacies and kept getting the same answer, they didn't have any and didn't know when or if they would be getting any more. That's why I'm crossing over to accord.

 

My crossover to accord has been an updose. I have been able to tell becaue I have been feeling very drugged and out of it. My eyes even dialated on the first day I took it. I actually really didn't like it except for the abscence of anxiety, that part was nice   I did feel "hungover" as far as fatigue goes and I had a horrible headache I couldn't get rid of. I thought that was weird, you would think an updose would make a headache less but every time I took my dose the headache got worse. I actually had an appointment with my pdoc that day and he recommended I reduce my dose by 1% (I'm doing a slow taper over to the accord so it's just a small portion of my total dose currently). The reduction seems to have helped as I'm not quite as fatigued and the headache has decreased as well. Anyway, that's my experience with a generic crossover updose. I know your situation is quite different since you did a cut and then reinstated so I'm not sure how that would all come together. I was stable when I went into my crossover and that helped me know it was an updose too. Is there any way you can put a pause on your crossover for a week or so as you try to stabilize with your reinstatement?

 

My CT was off of an antidepressant. Unfortuantely the w/d sxs are very similar and there seems to be a lot of crossover in how our brains deal with the medications. I unfortunately couldn't reinstate as the CT was due to a a severe adverse event from the AD. I had to just hold on until the sxs subsided. At the time it felt like I would never get better, but I did. I do believe it has made it much harder for me to taper the benzo though. I'm usually only tapering about .002mg at a time and still have w/d sxs so I'm super sensitive. I'm hoping that as I get further away from the CT I'll be able to taper a little faster but I'm trying to stay functional and if that means it take 12 years, which is the path I'm currently on, then it takes 12 years. My pdoc thinks it's great the way I'm doing it because I can leave the house, usually with my safe person, and do things. When I taper too much I become housebound again along with various other physical and psychological sxs. I've been very lucky with my doctor and I hope he sticks around for awhile yet, he's old enough to retire.

 

This group is really great with the support we have for each other. I think we all know that this is an individual journey and we all have to figure out what works best for ourselves. We just try to be here as best we can for each other as we all find our path through this benzo withdrawal maze 

 

Just keep on going, stay strong, and you'll find your path. We'll be here to cheer you on and lift you up when you need it.  :hug:

 

Hugs,

T

 

 

 

 

[[Sc...]]

Helooo good people,

Another question.

Hi again, also, anyone who’s tried to cut & hold then reinstated. I cut & held .25 out of 3.5 total daily of clonazapam 6/4-6/10 Can it take a few days to feel back to normal? Like some lingering jaw tension or fatigue or other withdrawal type symptoms?

Much thanks Scaredie xx

 

Yes, unfortunately sxs can pop up anytime but that def can cause it

Thank you, Mary

Reinstating can cause it? I cut & held about 7% 6/4-6/10

How long should any lingering sxs last?

 

Everyone is different Scardie, there's no way to answer.  We all wish someone could give us def answers on when this will happen or that.  There just is no answer.  : . You have to go with the flow.  I know it isn't easy. :smitten:

Thanks again...sorry to be annoying. It might be partly the new med I’m crossing over to too. Even though I’m taking it at night. I just tried to have a phone conversation & couldn’t pay attention at all. Very weird like Brain scrambled. Xx be well

[[...]]

Scardie,

 

You aren't annoying. We all go through feeling that way so I understand what you are saying. Asking questions is how we deal and how we figure it out. Keep on asking them  

 

I have been having a terrible time with short term memory, or cog fog as I call it, since I CT'd. Some days are better than others so hopefully you will find that you have good days where you can follow the conversation too.

 

Hugs,

 

T

[[Ma...]]

Helooo good people,

Another question.

Hi again, also, anyone who’s tried to cut & hold then reinstated. I cut & held .25 out of 3.5 total daily of clonazapam 6/4-6/10 Can it take a few days to feel back to normal? Like some lingering jaw tension or fatigue or other withdrawal type symptoms?

Much thanks Scaredie xx

 

Yes, unfortunately sxs can pop up anytime but that def can cause it

Thank you, Mary

Reinstating can cause it? I cut & held about 7% 6/4-6/10

How long should any lingering sxs last?

 

Everyone is different Scardie, there's no way to answer.  We all wish someone could give us def answers on when this will happen or that.  There just is no answer.  : . You have to go with the flow.  I know it isn't easy. :smitten:

Thanks again...sorry to be annoying. It might be partly the new med I’m crossing over to too. Even though I’m taking it at night. I just tried to have a phone conversation & couldn’t pay attention at all. Very weird like Brain scrambled. Xx be well

 

I am giving you most attempts award though to get answers to your questions, that's a good thing

[[...]]

Mary,

 

LOL, I love it. Awards.....what other awards can we give out?

 

 

[[...]]

Oh my goodness, things are really hopping hear on the Long Hold group! Maybe some sense is spreading about this process and holds being a great thing???

I remember when I first found this group, and having already been indoctrinated into the "Ashton way" what a hard process it has been , and still is sometimes to make this mental transition into the long hold way, the tapering from stability way etc. As best as we can anyway in trying to hit the benzo moving target!

 

Anyway , hi everyone , sending love and hugs to all .....

 

I especially wanted to say -TNTD- thank you s omuch for responding to my questions about your hold , that's very encouraging for me , I've done the " sneak a little hear and there" type hold! And I don;t think it's really served me, though I do feel better about being on a slightly lower dose at least , however slight.

 

So now , along with my friend who is going to consult with me so I'm not always making my own decisions, I am goign to commit to 2 weeks at a time of holding , and after each 2 weeks , reassess and go from there,. 2 weeks was all I felt I could commit to in one go with out cheating!! The biggest thing for me that has held me back from holding  , is fearing that I will get worse , get more toxic . and that I won;t get better .  I have not really given it a fair trial, as these fears creep up on me and i find myself rationalizing another sneaky micro cut.

 

So , time for me to take a gamble, as we all do , and scardie , I understand how you feel , accepting the nature of this beast is some thing else.... probably nothing like any othe r possible experience in life. So gamble we must.

 

 

love and hugs , I read all your posts and am so grateful for you all, great wisdom and maturity here I find. thank you for being here

MiYu :smitten:

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Helooo good people,

Another question.

Hi again, also, anyone who’s tried to cut & hold then reinstated. I cut & held .25 out of 3.5 total daily of clonazapam 6/4-6/10 Can it take a few days to feel back to normal? Like some lingering jaw tension or fatigue or other withdrawal type symptoms?

Much thanks Scaredie xx

 

Yes, unfortunately sxs can pop up anytime but that def can cause it

Thank you, Mary

Reinstating can cause it? I cut & held about 7% 6/4-6/10

How long should any lingering sxs last?

 

Everyone is different Scardie, there's no way to answer.  We all wish someone could give us def answers on when this will happen or that.  There just is no answer.  : . You have to go with the flow.  I know it isn't easy. :smitten:

Thanks again...sorry to be annoying. It might be partly the new med I’m crossing over to too. Even though I’m taking it at night. I just tried to have a phone conversation & couldn’t pay attention at all. Very weird like Brain scrambled. Xx be well

 

I am giving you most attempts award though to get answers to your questions, that's a good thing

:thumbsup:

[[Sc...]]

I feel like I'm always behind. I just read through five pages and I'm not sure I remember much of it. I do know that I wanted to respond to specific comments......

 

I think MiYu asked me about my hold. After my CT I was a mess but I wanted desperately to get off of my benzo so I thouhgt that even though I was still housebound and had really bad anxiety daily, along with other sxs of course, I could start my taper. Bad idea. I kept trying though and I just kept getting worse. Finally about six months of trying to taper both my doctor and the moderator on SA suggested that I hold, plus I found this wonderful group and they suggested I hold too so hold I did. I had been holding about three months when I finally entered a window. It was amost a full year from the time of my CT. It was amazing. I decided I would start to taper after I enjoyed about a month of relief at least. That's when I recieved the new generic and had to do a crossover. I had heard that some people had a hard time with it so I decided to taper over for a month. It was awful. It must have been a big reduction. I went back into full blown w/d's and once I finished the taper over it was about another month before I got another window. So I held another month after that. It was a total of holding for six months before I decided to try tapering again and then I only did really tiny tapers and I hold if I get exhausted by the w/d's that the tiny taper causes. Anyway, that's my holding story. I hope it helps. I will tell you it is hard to hold. The brain wants to keep going and get off these meds but holding was the best thing I ever did.

 

Scardie,  I agree so much with what everyone has been saying. If you need to updose to regain functionality and that's what's right for you then that's what you should do. We will support you no matter what choice you make. I agree with some of the others that maybe you try just a partial updose first to see how that goes. No harm in trying. As MiYu said it's all trial and error and then we try something else. We're all just trying to figure this thing out and we're all different in what we need.  Stay strong and do what's best for you.  :smitten: :hug:

 

MiYu, I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling. I find it amazing how tapering such tiny amounts can cause w/d sxs. I have asked my pdoc about it repeatedly and he says he doesn't know why such tiny amounts cause us problems. How long have you tried to hold for in the past? I don't know if there is any rhythm to tapering. Our brains and bodies are constatly changing and we have to adjust for all the new situations in our lives.

 

Heath, I'm sorry to hear that you are hurting so much. Did I read that your brother-in-law passed away. If so I'm so very sorry to hear that. My brother-in-law passed away this past February and it was and has been a hard thing. My heart is with you. Treat youself like you would a good friend and I like that idea of super gluing yourself to the turtle, lol. 

 

Barbara, I hope that you find a way to deal with your tooth. I had to have one pulled after it cracked through the root and I know that pain is no fun, especially when you're dealing with w/d too. Stay strong, you can do it. 

 

Big hugs and healing to everyone, Stut, Heath, MiYu, Scaredie, TMB, BG, is CanDo still on here, Can't and so many others that are new and have been here awhile alike.

 

Thinking of you all,  :smitten: :hug:

T

Hi tntd,

Thanks for the great informative & supportive response. The support means all the world to me. I decided to reinstate until after crossover & travel. Maybe hold for a month. Trust me I want off this junk as fast as we all do, but now isn’t my time. Figure out what generic I’m going to be on, then try again, slower, & no doubt a different method that involves MT, that hopefully somehow I’ll be able to figure out how to do, with much help.

 

I copy & paste part of what you said because I have questions.

You wrote:

After my CT I was a mess but I wanted desperately to get off of my benzo so I thouhgt that even though I was still housebound and had really bad anxiety daily, along with other sxs of course, I could start my taper. Bad idea. I kept trying though and I just kept getting worse. Finally about six months of trying to taper both my doctor and the moderator on SA suggested that I hold, plus I found this wonderful group and they suggested I hold too so hold I did.

 

Are you saying that you were cold turkeyed off of your clonazapam prior to beginning taper here?

 

Off how much & for how long had you been on it?

 

If you were cold turkeyed, how long before you reinstated? Did you reinstate at same dose you CT?

 

Do you think that CT is affecting your taper now?

 

Much thanks for continuid support-best wishes

Love Scaredie

 

Hi Scardie,

 

I hope that you feel better quickly after you updose and that it helps you to be able to accomplish the things you need to accomplish. I would recommend holding until you have been stable a couple of weeks as that will give you some time to rest and recuperate but that's just my opnion.

 

It can take awhile to stabilize after an updose as well. As was mentioned by Mary, I think, everyone is different so there is no way to know how long it will take for you to stabilize.

 

I don't know if this is still the case but the reason they took me off of actavis was because the manufacturer was out of the medication and they didn't know when or if they would get any back in stock. I went looking for it at different pharmacies and kept getting the same answer, they didn't have any and didn't know when or if they would be getting any more. That's why I'm crossing over to accord.

 

My crossover to accord has been an updose. I have been able to tell becaue I have been feeling very drugged and out of it. My eyes even dialated on the first day I took it. I actually really didn't like it except for the abscence of anxiety, that part was nice   I did feel "hungover" as far as fatigue goes and I had a horrible headache I couldn't get rid of. I thought that was weird, you would think an updose would make a headache less but every time I took my dose the headache got worse. I actually had an appointment with my pdoc that day and he recommended I reduce my dose by 1% (I'm doing a slow taper over to the accord so it's just a small portion of my total dose currently). The reduction seems to have helped as I'm not quite as fatigued and the headache has decreased as well. Anyway, that's my experience with a generic crossover updose. I know your situation is quite different since you did a cut and then reinstated so I'm not sure how that would all come together. I was stable when I went into my crossover and that helped me know it was an updose too. Is there any way you can put a pause on your crossover for a week or so as you try to stabilize with your reinstatement?

 

My CT was off of an antidepressant. Unfortuantely the w/d sxs are very similar and there seems to be a lot of crossover in how our brains deal with the medications. I unfortunately couldn't reinstate as the CT was due to a a severe adverse event from the AD. I had to just hold on until the sxs subsided. At the time it felt like I would never get better, but I did. I do believe it has made it much harder for me to taper the benzo though. I'm usually only tapering about .002mg at a time and still have w/d sxs so I'm super sensitive. I'm hoping that as I get further away from the CT I'll be able to taper a little faster but I'm trying to stay functional and if that means it take 12 years, which is the path I'm currently on, then it takes 12 years. My pdoc thinks it's great the way I'm doing it because I can leave the house, usually with my safe person, and do things. When I taper too much I become housebound again along with various other physical and psychological sxs. I've been very lucky with my doctor and I hope he sticks around for awhile yet, he's old enough to retire.

 

This group is really great with the support we have for each other. I think we all know that this is an individual journey and we all have to figure out what works best for ourselves. We just try to be here as best we can for each other as we all find our path through this benzo withdrawal maze 

 

Just keep on going, stay strong, and you'll find your path. We'll be here to cheer you on and lift you up when you need it.  :hug:

 

Hugs,

T

Thanks so much t for the long, thourogh response, supportive response. I’m going to have to read it again as right now my brain wants to be mush.

 

No I can’t stop the crossover, not enough old Meds left. I could, just stop the old med & stop crossing over & just take all of the new med, maybe that would help me see what symptoms are what more clearly, but not sure it’s wise.

 

It is hard to say what’s up with my symptoms, like you said, since I resinstaded & am not stable, & am trying to crossover too. That’s part of the reason I reinstated, is thought it unwise to start taper & crossover simultaneously, after I was already into it, so f course.

 

If I updosed, am not sure what I’d do about it as I’m not LT or any taper.

 

I’ll have to read your updose symptoms again.

 

Thanks for explaining the antidepressant cold turkey, nice to know more of your story, but so sorry to hear of your suffering. I’ve cold turkeyed antidepressants in the past, when I was dumb & young & remember how I’ll i was. Just tapering off of them is hard enough. I hope your healing continues from that, swiftly.

 

I may end up having to taper as slow as you, we don’t know yet. At least you have a plan and your functioning, like you said. That’s great. Your actually moving. I’m stuck, in hold, crossover, but my Meds make me too tired land. 

I was already feeling oversedated from(I presume too high a dose Meds)Meds before crossover, so it will be hard to distinguish more new sedation from old. Catch 22, can’t lower dose without too much withdrawal right now, but am/was already feeling majorly overmedicated/sedated. The whole thing really made me want to cold turkey today...so frustrating Don’t worry I won’t ct.

 

But yes, reinstatement may not get me back to functioning better because I’ve had so much sedation, normal low level-non sobbing withdrawal depression, but can’t enjoy, don’t want to do anything depression, that I havnt been functioning very well at all, anyway. Sorry, not complaining, just explaining. I wasn’t suffering from withdrawal, though. The phycological withdrawal symptoms really, no pun intended, scared me.

 

Your right this is a very supportive carring group. I only hope, that I can one day, be more emotionally & cognitively well, so that I may lend more support. And stop feeling so selfishly needy.

 

Big thanks t xx

 

[[...]]

Oh my goodness, things are really hopping hear on the Long Hold group! Maybe some sense is spreading about this process and holds being a great thing???

I remember when I first found this group, and having already been indoctrinated into the "Ashton way" what a hard process it has been , and still is sometimes to make this mental transition into the long hold way, the tapering from stability way etc. As best as we can anyway in trying to hit the benzo moving target!

 

Anyway , hi everyone , sending love and hugs to all .....

 

I especially wanted to say -TNTD- thank you s omuch for responding to my questions about your hold , that's very encouraging for me , I've done the " sneak a little hear and there" type hold! And I don;t think it's really served me, though I do feel better about being on a slightly lower dose at least , however slight.

 

So now , along with my friend who is going to consult with me so I'm not always making my own decisions, I am goign to commit to 2 weeks at a time of holding , and after each 2 weeks , reassess and go from there,. 2 weeks was all I felt I could commit to in one go with out cheating!! The biggest thing for me that has held me back from holding  , is fearing that I will get worse , get more toxic . and that I won;t get better .  I have not really given it a fair trial, as these fears creep up on me and i find myself rationalizing another sneaky micro cut.

 

So , time for me to take a gamble, as we all do , and scardie , I understand how you feel , accepting the nature of this beast is some thing else.... probably nothing like any othe r possible experience in life. So gamble we must.

 

 

love and hugs , I read all your posts and am so grateful for you all, great wisdom and maturity here I find. thank you for being here

MiYu :smitten:

 

Hi MiYu,

 

My pleasure on giving you those details. Congratulations on your commiting to two weeks of a hold after you taper. I think that's a great idea. Do you have a specific amount you are planning on tapering?

 

I personally usually taper about .002mg and then hold a week until I get tired and then I hold for two weeks, or I taper about .004mg and hold for a week or two depending on how I'm feeling. I agree it's really hard to not sneak in those micro-tapers for soooo many reasons. I'm glad you have an accountability partner, that should help 

 

I have heard of others being afraid of holding causing them to get worse but I've never heard of anyone actually saying that it did cause them to get worse, only better. Of course I have only been on the long hold thread off and on for a little over a year now so I'm sure I don't know everyone's experience. It would be interesting to know how others have done with their holds and how long they have held. Personally it had been and continues to be a wonderful tool for me in my taper.

 

Good luck on your new adventure. Stay stong in your resolve to go two weeks, you can do it!! I have great faith in you.

 

Hugs, :smitten:

 

T

[[...]]

Thanks so much t for the long, thourogh response, supportive response. I’m going to have to read it again as right now my brain wants to be mush.

 

No I can’t stop the crossover, not enough old Meds left. I could, just stop the old med & stop crossing over & just take all of the new med, maybe that would help me see what symptoms are what more clearly, but not sure it’s wise.

 

It is hard to say what’s up with my symptoms, like you said, since I resinstaded & am not stable, & am trying to crossover too. That’s part of the reason I reinstated, is thought it unwise to start taper & crossover simultaneously, after I was already into it, so f course.

 

If I updosed, am not sure what I’d do about it as I’m not LT or any taper.

 

I’ll have to read your updose symptoms again.

 

Thanks for explaining the antidepressant cold turkey, nice to know more of your story, but so sorry to hear of your suffering. I’ve cold turkeyed antidepressants in the past, when I was dumb & young & remember how I’ll i was. Just tapering off of them is hard enough. I hope your healing continues from that, swiftly.

 

I may end up having to taper as slow as you, we don’t know yet. At least you have a plan and your functioning, like you said. That’s great. Your actually moving. I’m stuck, in hold, crossover, but my Meds make me too tired land. 

I was already feeling oversedated from(I presume too high a dose Meds)Meds before crossover, so it will be hard to distinguish more new sedation from old. Catch 22, can’t lower dose without too much withdrawal right now, but am/was already feeling majorly overmedicated/sedated. The whole thing really made me want to cold turkey today...so frustrating Don’t worry I won’t ct.

 

But yes, reinstatement may not get me back to functioning better because I’ve had so much sedation, normal low level-non sobbing withdrawal depression, but can’t enjoy, don’t want to do anything depression, that I havnt been functioning very well at all, anyway. Sorry, not complaining, just explaining. I wasn’t suffering from withdrawal, though. The phycological withdrawal symptoms really, no pun intended, scared me.

 

Your right this is a very supportive carring group. I only hope, that I can one day, be more emotionally & cognitively well, so that I may lend more support. And stop feeling so selfishly needy.

 

Big thanks t xx

 

 

I understand not having enough old meds to hold with. That's always frustrating too.

 

My CT was rough but I survived. It's amazing what we can get through, especially if we have enough support.

 

I think if I was you I would continue crossing over to the generics a little at a time, especially since you don't know which way it's going. If you do it all at once it could hit you a lot worse either way. I really didn't enjoy my updose as it was super sedating and I ended up with depression too. If you keep crossing slowly at least if it's an updose for you it won't hit all at once.

 

LOL, I have a plan and am functioning now, so true. I was once just like you though. All full of questions and concerns and confusion. You'll be where I am eventually. It has been two years for me now. It didn't happen overnight but it did happen, it will for you too. Even if you have to go really slow like MiYu and I do you will make it.

 

To stay functional I'm looking at tapering over around 12 years. Most people don't have to or choose not to take that option. I am just terrified to go back into that w/d place I was before holding helped me heal. That's what keeps me honest with my taper. I get tempted to taper more too but then it scares me and I back off, lol. I've had it send me into a wave thinking of trying to do a faster taper.

 

I think you'll be good once you are able to get through your generic crossover, along with the help from your therapist and taking time to stabilize. We'll all be here helping you through too 

 

Hugs,

T

[[Sc...]]

Oh my goodness, things are really hopping hear on the Long Hold group! Maybe some sense is spreading about this process and holds being a great thing???

I remember when I first found this group, and having already been indoctrinated into the "Ashton way" what a hard process it has been , and still is sometimes to make this mental transition into the long hold way, the tapering from stability way etc. As best as we can anyway in trying to hit the benzo moving target!

 

Anyway , hi everyone , sending love and hugs to all .....

 

I especially wanted to say -TNTD- thank you s omuch for responding to my questions about your hold , that's very encouraging for me , I've done the " sneak a little hear and there" type hold! And I don;t think it's really served me, though I do feel better about being on a slightly lower dose at least , however slight.

 

So now , along with my friend who is going to consult with me so I'm not always making my own decisions, I am goign to commit to 2 weeks at a time of holding , and after each 2 weeks , reassess and go from there,. 2 weeks was all I felt I could commit to in one go with out cheating!! The biggest thing for me that has held me back from holding  , is fearing that I will get worse , get more toxic . and that I won;t get better .  I have not really given it a fair trial, as these fears creep up on me and i find myself rationalizing another sneaky micro cut.

 

So , time for me to take a gamble, as we all do , and scardie , I understand how you feel , accepting the nature of this beast is some thing else.... probably nothing like any othe r possible experience in life. So gamble we must.

 

 

love and hugs , I read all your posts and am so grateful for you all, great wisdom and maturity here I find. thank you for being here

MiYu :smitten:

 

Hi MiYu,

 

My pleasure on giving you those details. Congratulations on your commiting to two weeks of a hold after you taper. I think that's a great idea. Do you have a specific amount you are planning on tapering?

 

I personally usually taper about .002mg and then hold a week until I get tired and then I hold for two weeks, or I taper about .004mg and hold for a week or two depending on how I'm feeling. I agree it's really hard to not sneak in those micro-tapers for soooo many reasons. I'm glad you have an accountability partner, that should help 

 

I have heard of others being afraid of holding causing them to get worse but I've never heard of anyone actually saying that it did cause them to get worse, only better. Of course I have only been on the long hold thread off and on for a little over a year now so I'm sure I don't know everyone's experience. It would be interesting to know how others have done with their holds and how long they have held. Personally it had been and continues to be a wonderful tool for me in my taper.

 

Good luck on your new adventure. Stay stong in your resolve to go two weeks, you can do it!! I have great faith in you.

 

Hugs, :smitten:

 

T

I’m glad you’ve found the support you need to help you with accountability in your taper. MiYu & thanks for the shout out.

Excuse my ignorance, but I havnt read the entire Ashton manual, benzo brain & all. What do you mean MiYu by the Ashton way vs this hold way? If you get the chance, please. Hope your feeling well

XX

[[Sc...]]

Thanks so much t for the long, thourogh response, supportive response. I’m going to have to read it again as right now my brain wants to be mush.

 

No I can’t stop the crossover, not enough old Meds left. I could, just stop the old med & stop crossing over & just take all of the new med, maybe that would help me see what symptoms are what more clearly, but not sure it’s wise.

 

It is hard to say what’s up with my symptoms, like you said, since I resinstaded & am not stable, & am trying to crossover too. That’s part of the reason I reinstated, is thought it unwise to start taper & crossover simultaneously, after I was already into it, so f course.

 

If I updosed, am not sure what I’d do about it as I’m not LT or any taper.

 

I’ll have to read your updose symptoms again.

 

Thanks for explaining the antidepressant cold turkey, nice to know more of your story, but so sorry to hear of your suffering. I’ve cold turkeyed antidepressants in the past, when I was dumb & young & remember how I’ll i was. Just tapering off of them is hard enough. I hope your healing continues from that, swiftly.

 

I may end up having to taper as slow as you, we don’t know yet. At least you have a plan and your functioning, like you said. That’s great. Your actually moving. I’m stuck, in hold, crossover, but my Meds make me too tired land. 

I was already feeling oversedated from(I presume too high a dose Meds)Meds before crossover, so it will be hard to distinguish more new sedation from old. Catch 22, can’t lower dose without too much withdrawal right now, but am/was already feeling majorly overmedicated/sedated. The whole thing really made me want to cold turkey today...so frustrating Don’t worry I won’t ct.

 

But yes, reinstatement may not get me back to functioning better because I’ve had so much sedation, normal low level-non sobbing withdrawal depression, but can’t enjoy, don’t want to do anything depression, that I havnt been functioning very well at all, anyway. Sorry, not complaining, just explaining. I wasn’t suffering from withdrawal, though. The phycological withdrawal symptoms really, no pun intended, scared me.

 

Your right this is a very supportive carring group. I only hope, that I can one day, be more emotionally & cognitively well, so that I may lend more support. And stop feeling so selfishly needy.

 

Big thanks t xx

 

 

I understand not having enough old meds to hold with. That's always frustrating too.

 

My CT was rough but I survived. It's amazing what we can get through, especially if we have enough support.

 

I think if I was you I would continue crossing over to the generics a little at a time, especially since you don't know which way it's going. If you do it all at once it could hit you a lot worse either way. I really didn't enjoy my updose as it was super sedating and I ended up with depression too. If you keep crossing slowly at least if it's an updose for you it won't hit all at once.

 

LOL, I have a plan and am functioning now, so true. I was once just like you though. All full of questions and concerns and confusion. You'll be where I am eventually. It has been two years for me now. It didn't happen overnight but it did happen, it will for you too. Even if you have to go really slow like MiYu and I do you will make it.

 

To stay functional I'm looking at tapering over around 12 years. Most people don't have to or choose not to take that option. I am just terrified to go back into that w/d place I was before holding helped me heal. That's what keeps me honest with my taper. I get tempted to taper more too but then it scares me and I back off, lol. I've had it send me into a wave thinking of trying to do a faster taper.

 

I think you'll be good once you are able to get through your generic crossover, along with the help from your therapist and taking time to stabilize. We'll all be here helping you through too 

 

Hugs,

T

Thanks again t, for the advice I’ll heed about slowly crossing over, it’s almost all gone soon anyway, instead of all at once.

 

I have no idea why my last post came out all bold, sorry..

 

And for sharing more of your story, the understanding & encouragement that I’ll get there, & you all will be here. Means so much

 

It sounds like you pretty much follow your symptoms with your cuts & holds & remain functional. What more could one ask of you? Sounds reasonable to me.

 

Take care, Scaredie 

[[bl...]]

Scardie:

The first time I updosed it took about 10 days to get stable again. The second time, it didn't work. I held for 5 months! Then I just started cutting again, slowly.....Most s/x did pass--some new ones cropped up. You know how it goes. In terms of the different brands, you have to try. Ask the pharmacist for a couple of each. I remember when I was on Klonopin and they discontinued my brand--one worked fine, the other felt like a placebo.

[[...]]

Oh my goodness, things are really hopping hear on the Long Hold group! Maybe some sense is spreading about this process and holds being a great thing???

I remember when I first found this group, and having already been indoctrinated into the "Ashton way" what a hard process it has been , and still is sometimes to make this mental transition into the long hold way, the tapering from stability way etc. As best as we can anyway in trying to hit the benzo moving target!

 

Anyway , hi everyone , sending love and hugs to all .....

 

I especially wanted to say -TNTD- thank you s omuch for responding to my questions about your hold , that's very encouraging for me , I've done the " sneak a little hear and there" type hold! And I don;t think it's really served me, though I do feel better about being on a slightly lower dose at least , however slight.

 

So now , along with my friend who is going to consult with me so I'm not always making my own decisions, I am goign to commit to 2 weeks at a time of holding , and after each 2 weeks , reassess and go from there,. 2 weeks was all I felt I could commit to in one go with out cheating!! The biggest thing for me that has held me back from holding  , is fearing that I will get worse , get more toxic . and that I won;t get better .  I have not really given it a fair trial, as these fears creep up on me and i find myself rationalizing another sneaky micro cut.

 

So , time for me to take a gamble, as we all do , and scardie , I understand how you feel , accepting the nature of this beast is some thing else.... probably nothing like any othe r possible experience in life. So gamble we must.

 

 

love and hugs , I read all your posts and am so grateful for you all, great wisdom and maturity here I find. thank you for being here

MiYu :smitten:

 

Hi MiYu,

 

My pleasure on giving you those details. Congratulations on your commiting to two weeks of a hold after you taper. I think that's a great idea. Do you have a specific amount you are planning on tapering?

 

I personally usually taper about .002mg and then hold a week until I get tired and then I hold for two weeks, or I taper about .004mg and hold for a week or two depending on how I'm feeling. I agree it's really hard to not sneak in those micro-tapers for soooo many reasons. I'm glad you have an accountability partner, that should help 

 

I have heard of others being afraid of holding causing them to get worse but I've never heard of anyone actually saying that it did cause them to get worse, only better. Of course I have only been on the long hold thread off and on for a little over a year now so I'm sure I don't know everyone's experience. It would be interesting to know how others have done with their holds and how long they have held. Personally it had been and continues to be a wonderful tool for me in my taper.

 

Good luck on your new adventure. Stay stong in your resolve to go two weeks, you can do it!! I have great faith in you.

 

Hugs, :smitten:

 

T

 

THanks T 

well, I don;t have a plan yet as far as  tapering goes... it's been such a struggle I'm still really trying to find a way to do this, so this committing to 2 weeks ata time holding is not really part of a taper plan , so much as it is an experiment to see if not cutting anything for a while will help me get more stable so that I can taper at a reasonable rate. It's taken me 6 months to cut a little less than 6% , doing it in microcuts whenever I felt able .

But i've been housebound most of that time and suffered horrible wds a lot of the time too . I think my "WDnormal"has improved soemwhat , but I am only able to cut 1/3 % or less over a couple of weeks before I get hit and have to stop.

So you see , I am wondering if perhaps if I do a longer hold , that maybe I could do more of a taper.....that's my current experiment anyway!!

in terms of mgs that's something like .003 K month!! hardly anything...I'm using liquid  that I make and so I can reduce by the tiniest amounts at a time. my 1 ml syringe =3% approx.

 

I'm currently 10 days into a hold from my cuts in may that were almost .75%

 

Argghhh, sooo slow.

 

hope this all makes sense!

love, MiYu :smitten:

 

 

[[He...]]

Helooo good people,

Another question.

Hi again, also, anyone who’s tried to cut & hold then reinstated. I cut & held .25 out of 3.5 total daily of clonazapam 6/4-6/10 Can it take a few days to feel back to normal? Like some lingering jaw tension or fatigue or other withdrawal type symptoms?

Much thanks Scaredie xx

 

Yes, unfortunately sxs can pop up anytime but that def can cause it

Thank you, Mary

Reinstating can cause it? I cut & held about 7% 6/4-6/10

How long should any lingering sxs last?

 

Everyone is different Scardie, there's no way to answer.  We all wish someone could give us def answers on when this will happen or that.  There just is no answer.  : . You have to go with the flow.  I know it isn't easy. :smitten:

Thanks again...sorry to be annoying. It might be partly the new med I’m crossing over to too. Even though I’m taking it at night. I just tried to have a phone conversation & couldn’t pay attention at all. Very weird like Brain scrambled. Xx be well

 

I am giving you most attempts award though to get answers to your questions, that's a good thing

:thumbsup:

 

 

Scardie,

you seem to be taking lots of different meds.( Prescribed or over the counter supplements). I’m sure you are not taking them without cause or without thinking hard about them,and I’m sure you wouldn’t take them if they weren’t needed.

Saying that, I must add that imo the more meds and supplements you take, the more you will not know which one is causing you the sideeffects you are getting. And playing around with the dose adds to the wdsx and the confusion.

IMO, if it were me, I would just stop experimenting and stay with your clonopin, and ride out a nice long hold....so your brain can adjust and heal.

 

Lots of dose changing, and adding and changing meds is very likely going to make you CNS all messed up.

Slow down, stop experimenting. Roll with the hold.your brain is screaming for you to slow down and let it stablize.

 

Heath

[[bl...]]

Miyu:

Are you dizzy?

[[...]]

Oh my goodness, things are really hopping hear on the Long Hold group! Maybe some sense is spreading about this process and holds being a great thing???

I remember when I first found this group, and having already been indoctrinated into the "Ashton way" what a hard process it has been , and still is sometimes to make this mental transition into the long hold way, the tapering from stability way etc. As best as we can anyway in trying to hit the benzo moving target!

 

Anyway , hi everyone , sending love and hugs to all .....

 

I especially wanted to say -TNTD- thank you s omuch for responding to my questions about your hold , that's very encouraging for me , I've done the " sneak a little hear and there" type hold! And I don;t think it's really served me, though I do feel better about being on a slightly lower dose at least , however slight.

 

So now , along with my friend who is going to consult with me so I'm not always making my own decisions, I am goign to commit to 2 weeks at a time of holding , and after each 2 weeks , reassess and go from there,. 2 weeks was all I felt I could commit to in one go with out cheating!! The biggest thing for me that has held me back from holding  , is fearing that I will get worse , get more toxic . and that I won;t get better .  I have not really given it a fair trial, as these fears creep up on me and i find myself rationalizing another sneaky micro cut.

 

So , time for me to take a gamble, as we all do , and scardie , I understand how you feel , accepting the nature of this beast is some thing else.... probably nothing like any othe r possible experience in life. So gamble we must.

 

 

love and hugs , I read all your posts and am so grateful for you all, great wisdom and maturity here I find. thank you for being here

MiYu :smitten:

 

Hi MiYu,

 

My pleasure on giving you those details. Congratulations on your commiting to two weeks of a hold after you taper. I think that's a great idea. Do you have a specific amount you are planning on tapering?

 

I personally usually taper about .002mg and then hold a week until I get tired and then I hold for two weeks, or I taper about .004mg and hold for a week or two depending on how I'm feeling. I agree it's really hard to not sneak in those micro-tapers for soooo many reasons. I'm glad you have an accountability partner, that should help 

 

I have heard of others being afraid of holding causing them to get worse but I've never heard of anyone actually saying that it did cause them to get worse, only better. Of course I have only been on the long hold thread off and on for a little over a year now so I'm sure I don't know everyone's experience. It would be interesting to know how others have done with their holds and how long they have held. Personally it had been and continues to be a wonderful tool for me in my taper.

 

Good luck on your new adventure. Stay stong in your resolve to go two weeks, you can do it!! I have great faith in you.

 

Hugs, :smitten:

 

T

I’m glad you’ve found the support you need to help you with accountability in your taper. MiYu & thanks for the shout out.

Excuse my ignorance, but I havnt read the entire Ashton manual, benzo brain & all. What do you mean MiYu by the Ashton way vs this hold way? If you get the chance, please. Hope your feeling well

XX

 

Hi Scardie ( I think we have to call you something different? MAybe we can call you SC?)I don;t want to keep reinforcing your feeling scared!!

I haven;t read the whole Ashton manual either!  But I think it's pretty well known that her rate of recommended taper was about 5-10% every 2-4 weeks> Well , I tried 5% the first two months of my taper and got vERY sick from it , it took me months to anything like reocver.

then I discovered this great group and got used to the idea of holding as a real possibility to aid heaing as we taper.

It was an adjustment as I thought we had to really suffer badly to get through this! I am still howver trying to find my way , but I do know that had I followed the Ashton method of 5-10% , I would be suffering a whole lot more.

 

It's all so very individual, I think som e people are able to tolerate suffering better than others. and it just depends also on how your body works  and all kinds of variables.

I still hold on to the hope that I can taper , slowly , and , yes , I will no doubt have symptoms , but that my healing will happen as I taper and I won;t suffer for years afterwards.

 

does this explain?

love, MiYu

[[...]]

Miyu:

Are you dizzy?

 

No Blue , not usually one of my symptoms , occasionally in th emorning when I get up , I have tons of burnign pain and weak legs , sometimes painful legs , fatigue, and stress intolerance really badly , that limits me more than anything I think .... why do you ask?

love , MiYu

[[bl...]]

I was curious as you are doing liquid and going slowly--the minute i moved to liquid i got dizzy--never had this before--so i was curious. well, be glad you don't have that one I guess. it stinks! but sorry you are suffering with other s/x. long road....

xoxo

[[Ca...]]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry, know I missed replies..

Resting and recouperating... I did go for a ride up the back with C15, and it was a ton of fun..!! Even with impared reflexes... Bugger I sprained my knee badly...  -But thats riding..!!

 

***

SC -Builder and others have a complete range of info, not all will fit your situation, probably taper speeds and sensitivity.. But we are not sure where you sit on that account yet either...

It did take a couple of hours over time to sift through the posts, but I knew roughly what Builder had been discussing at the time... (about a year or more ago) I think the process of sifting and picking was an important part.. -The dots connected slowly from different angles... There may be info in the orange "stickies" too, im not sure...

Pls dont overthink this, you will be suprised at the simplicity once understood. -Small steps...

 

You mentioned doing an experiment with the CO "to see"..

There may be times you benifit from this, but look at risk vs benifit... In this case, you may never do another CO, and other recent dosage factors would muddy the waters a bit...

 

Sit tight, and hang in there...

 

 

[[St...]]

Well done Cant glad to hear you are out and about.Trust you to come back with an injury.Nice one.

    Love Stut X

[[St...]]

Hi Scardie l know you want answers to everything eg timelines, titration methods etc but understand everyone is different and sometimes you can have too much information.

      Take time now to do as Cant as said and take control of your own taper.lf at the end of it you still don't understand work out how to use your scales.You have plenty of time.

      My advice, for what it is worth,is this do the crossover and sit for as long as is necessary.Also get started your therapy and work hard on your coping skills and then begin your taper.

    This is a great support group but remember everyone here are suffering as well and sometimes can be overwhelmed by too many questions.

    I hope l haven't offended you in anyway as l am only trying to help you.l hope you feel better soon.

    Love Stut X

[[St...]]

Begood, Miyu NJ SS, Mary,Heath,TMB, Bluepill,Tntd, Barbara sending you lots of healing thoughts and hugs.

      Love Stut X