The Long Hold Support Group

[[St...]]

Forgot to say NJ l have ibs and a jippy stomach and l can't tolerate microbiotics or any supplement of any kind.

    Stut X

[[NJ...]]

NJ do whatever you have to do to stabilise.Sadly there is no easy way to get off these drugs but you are suffering terribly and there is only a certain amount you can take before you crack.

    I am unsure of how the system works in America but if you are advised by your doctor to work part time can you speak to your employer about getting your hours reduced.

    Stut X

 

Sadly I don't even think we can afford to have me cut back right now. And I think my employer would go crazy as I just started less than two months ago.

 

I spent some time in the early morning hours this morning reaching out to some medical marijuana doctors again. I really think that might help but the process is very cumbersome here.

[[St...]]

NJ keep trying it may help you and if it does it will be worth the effort.l hope you get something sorted out.I am rooting for you.

          Love Stut X

[[Ca...]]

Any experiences of people that didn't stabilize properly after 3 months but got better after 4,5,6+ months?

 

A lot of my symptoms stabilized pretty quickly (insomnia, anxiety, even dizziness after a while) but the worst ones (tinnitus and visual snow) are actually worse than before I started holding.

 

This is really making me lose hope again. I had a tiny week long window of these symptoms in month 2, but it seems the rest is just a worsening wave and it just keeps getting worse and worse. I'm really losing hope. Three months seems to be a long time to hold already am I'm not feeling any better.

Hi Make it..

I find it very easy to see how 4,6,8 mths holding can change the game...

I just read your sig, an am sure  remember when you joined.. Sorry that it has been like this...

I wondered on the kindling thoughts and how there was an issue from the first dose, if I have read things right...  -I might have to catch up. Sorry...

 

Yeah, I had some withdrawal from a first dose of 1 or 2mg ativan, but that was not so bad. Hell started when I went back on it (I didn't understand back then that those were wd symptoms from a single ativan, as that seems crazy), and when I tried to taper each time would be way too fast for my body so I kindled each time and got worse.

 

Since then I've been holding on 2.5mg valium for the past 3 months and it seems im just getting worse...

I guess a lot of what ifs from the start dont matter now.. It was another short term case I was thinking of earlier...

Sometimes it seems real unfair... but we take what life throws at us and continue with the new reality... Here I womder if its not more a reaction or effect, causing damage, over anything wd related... -to a lesser point now you have been on med a while...

I dont think kindling need be considered as a significant factor, if any...

 

What occured in the hours after that first tablet seems significant.. If the reregulation of neuro transmitters did not occur as normal, and presented as damage similar to weeks or months of use then holding might not have the same advantages as would normally be expected...

I guess you can see that there might be a case for getting off these benzos as fast as humanly possible, and also one for the opposite, -A very gentle taper in hope to minimise any long term damage, particularly with reguard to tinnitus... Sadly mine has reved right up now from reading about it..!!!

 

Anyway, best wishes, and i hope your off soon...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[To...]]

 

TMB, Hi there..!!

I have also found, that after a good cut, (and jumping is a good cut) that things could get seddenly better... But also that they sometimes got better right after being worse...

-no way to tell asides any past history, but I do hope it eases up for you real soom...

 

 

Thanks, Cant. I am waiting for that day that things get better....

[[To...]]

 

HEY THERE TOO MANY BENNIES......

I have never been in the position you are in now so I can only imagine how awful you must feel.

But I do know that no matter where you are in your taper, beginning, end, or maybe even have jumped already, these withdrawals stop cold when you least expect it.

I have had really bad wdsx leave me after having them for months.

I guess it all depends on how much one’s central nervous system needs to heal and adjust.

When I first started my journey of withdrawal I had the trembles day and night. Nobody  understood, because nobody could see me trembling inside. Anyway after about 6 months, one day they were just GONE ONE DAY. I WOKE UP AND THEY WERE JUST GONE. THEY NEVER BECAMES LESS AND LESS, THEY JUST STOPPED COLD TURKEY! And they never came back, except once for about 6 hours and then they were gone for good.

 

So please believe me.... don’t give up....your withdrawal pain WILL STOP! Have you read any of the success stories on the forum? They will help you to see how others coped after they jumped, and you will see that you are not alone in your crazy difficult time.

Hang in their buddy! You can do this. You have come soooo far. Hangin a while longer...you have proven how strong you are by getting to where you are now. You can do it!

But you if it helps at all, just know that I feel for you! And so do everyone else on this support group. You don’t ever have to apologize for being in the dumps. We are here to listen to you and give you the support you need for as long as you want!

 

So keep posting! We are here for you!

Heath :smitten:

 

Hi Heath. Thank you for your support. Your post actually brought tears to my eyes. I hope that time actually does heal -- it's all I have right now.

[[Gr...]]

Barbara-  I have had TONS of tooth pain related to my cracked tooth and I did some research on the boards here, and you can search it up too, but yes, the CNS is more sensitive and so you can feel tooth pain, and there may be nothing actually wrong with your tooth.  After a filling or crown- I just also got a crown about three weeks ago, and the pain was terrible at first.  The whole first two weeks, things were not great with my tooth, but after some time it has settled down a bit.  The healing and the nerves can take longer for us.  At least that is my experience.  I was honest to the dentist but also, he kept saying if there was pain still, we should do a root canal, but I remember reading someone's post where they did all this stuff because of tooth pain, and finally had the tooth removed, and the pain was still there and they really regretted removing that tooth and they blame benzo withdrawal.  So I am trying to give my pain a lot of time to resolve and take the dentist's extreme suggestions with a grain of salt.  The dentist was very helpful by putting some desensitizing gel on my tooth, and also he used some kind of essential oil that helped tooth pain, I think it was oregano?  I'm not sure, but it also helped a lot. 

 

MakeItStaph- Yes.  Three months was not enough for my last long hold.  I started holding at the end of August, and I was still having issues in December and January.  I did eventually get a window and just started tapering again then. 

 

NJ Strength-  Good to hear from you.  I'm so sorry you are having trouble sleeping.  Marijuana can REALLY help with that. 

 

I had a wave this last week, and was just anxious everyday and I couldn't sleep.  I finally got a good night's sleep again last night, and I'm feeling better but wow.  That was just awful.  I would just lie in the bed and my dream thoughts would mix with my awake thoughts, and it just felt like I was actually just awake with my eyes closed and thinking things all night.  It was so unsatisfying and kinda stressful.  Especially when it kept happening, night after night.   

 

Finally though, I do feel a bit better this morning.  As I have just posted to NJStrength, that marijuana can help with sleep, I realize that I did not do that myself.  I was so lost in my anxiousness, that I didn't even think of it.  I was also worried it would make me more anxious, which has happened a few times but is not the norm for me. 

[[St...]]

Hi Greencup glad to see you are feeling better.l hope your anger issues have lessened over the hold.

    TMB hang in there you will get there in the end.

    Stut X

[[Gr...]]

Thanks Stut 55-  I actually listened to this audio book, "Speak Peace" by Marshall Rosenberg, and I really loved it.  I feel like this is really going to help me with my anger.  It is all about nonviolent communication and he goes beyond just I-statements and needs and talks about how our culture ignores our feelings that drive our actions.  It's really amazing.  I would recommend it to everyone. 

 

Thanks to OliveKitty to recommending this book to me.  :smitten: :smitten:

 

TMB-  Sorry to see you are having trouble.  Sending you a virtual hug.      and Maybe a joint and a chocolate croissant too, if that would help. 

[[Ma...]]

Any experiences of people that didn't stabilize properly after 3 months but got better after 4,5,6+ months?

 

A lot of my symptoms stabilized pretty quickly (insomnia, anxiety, even dizziness after a while) but the worst ones (tinnitus and visual snow) are actually worse than before I started holding.

 

This is really making me lose hope again. I had a tiny week long window of these symptoms in month 2, but it seems the rest is just a worsening wave and it just keeps getting worse and worse. I'm really losing hope. Three months seems to be a long time to hold already am I'm not feeling any better.

Hi Make it..

I find it very easy to see how 4,6,8 mths holding can change the game...

I just read your sig, an am sure  remember when you joined.. Sorry that it has been like this...

I wondered on the kindling thoughts and how there was an issue from the first dose, if I have read things right...  -I might have to catch up. Sorry...

 

Yeah, I had some withdrawal from a first dose of 1 or 2mg ativan, but that was not so bad. Hell started when I went back on it (I didn't understand back then that those were wd symptoms from a single ativan, as that seems crazy), and when I tried to taper each time would be way too fast for my body so I kindled each time and got worse.

 

Since then I've been holding on 2.5mg valium for the past 3 months and it seems im just getting worse...

I guess a lot of what ifs from the start dont matter now.. It was another short term case I was thinking of earlier...

Sometimes it seems real unfair... but we take what life throws at us and continue with the new reality... Here I womder if its not more a reaction or effect, causing damage, over anything wd related... -to a lesser point now you have been on med a while...

I dont think kindling need be considered as a significant factor, if any...

 

What occured in the hours after that first tablet seems significant.. If the reregulation of neuro transmitters did not occur as normal, and presented as damage similar to weeks or months of use then holding might not have the same advantages as would normally be expected...

I guess you can see that there might be a case for getting off these benzos as fast as humanly possible, and also one for the opposite, -A very gentle taper in hope to minimise any long term damage, particularly with reguard to tinnitus... Sadly mine has reved right up now from reading about it..!!!

 

Anyway, best wishes, and i hope your off soon...

 

Yeah...even on the first dose the symptoms did not happen right away, it took a few days and progressively got worse, so it was withdrawal and not a reaction...Right now though..who knows, maybe both the withdrawal and the medication make me worse, in which case I have no hope to survive this, as it's not possible at all to stop the medication quickly for me, I've tried 3x at speeds that were not so fast and got destroyed each time...

[[NJ...]]

Barbara-  I have had TONS of tooth pain related to my cracked tooth and I did some research on the boards here, and you can search it up too, but yes, the CNS is more sensitive and so you can feel tooth pain, and there may be nothing actually wrong with your tooth.  After a filling or crown- I just also got a crown about three weeks ago, and the pain was terrible at first.  The whole first two weeks, things were not great with my tooth, but after some time it has settled down a bit.  The healing and the nerves can take longer for us.  At least that is my experience.  I was honest to the dentist but also, he kept saying if there was pain still, we should do a root canal, but I remember reading someone's post where they did all this stuff because of tooth pain, and finally had the tooth removed, and the pain was still there and they really regretted removing that tooth and they blame benzo withdrawal.  So I am trying to give my pain a lot of time to resolve and take the dentist's extreme suggestions with a grain of salt.  The dentist was very helpful by putting some desensitizing gel on my tooth, and also he used some kind of essential oil that helped tooth pain, I think it was oregano?  I'm not sure, but it also helped a lot. 

 

MakeItStaph- Yes.  Three months was not enough for my last long hold.  I started holding at the end of August, and I was still having issues in December and January.  I did eventually get a window and just started tapering again then. 

 

NJ Strength-  Good to hear from you.  I'm so sorry you are having trouble sleeping.  Marijuana can REALLY help with that. 

 

I had a wave this last week, and was just anxious everyday and I couldn't sleep.  I finally got a good night's sleep again last night, and I'm feeling better but wow.  That was just awful.  I would just lie in the bed and my dream thoughts would mix with my awake thoughts, and it just felt like I was actually just awake with my eyes closed and thinking things all night.  It was so unsatisfying and kinda stressful.  Especially when it kept happening, night after night.   

 

Finally though, I do feel a bit better this morning.  As I have just posted to NJStrength, that marijuana can help with sleep, I realize that I did not do that myself.  I was so lost in my anxiousness, that I didn't even think of it.  I was also worried it would make me more anxious, which has happened a few times but is not the norm for me.

 

Greencup:

 

Thanks for sharing your positive experience with marijuana. I spoke with a dr. this morning who is very supportive of using this for benzo withdrawal, especially as my biggest issues are lack of sleep and nausea. I think I may get a card within a month. I too am worried about pot raising my anxiety levels but I absolutely need help here. The last week plus has been bad again. Many nights no sleep then that means nausea and this morning I did throw up. Fun stuff. And I work full time and have no time accrued yet so just have to find my way through here. I am really, really tired of it all. I realize the tiny bit I have cut over the last three weeks need to just updose that amount and restart again at some point in the future. Guess I should have held longer, but I was doing well.

[[To...]]

TMB-  Sorry to see you are having trouble.  Sending you a virtual hug.      and Maybe a joint and a chocolate croissant too, if that would help.

 

Thanks, GC. It's probably been 30 years since my last joint. Even before benzos, it could get me a bit paranoid. For that reason, I wouldn't try it now. But, it sounded tempting...

 

 

[[...]]

hello every one , catching up on posts , sending love and healing thoughts to you all. thank you for your sweet posts of encouragement on my little windows!

BAck in it again  but I am going by the WDnormal advice, that I am experiencing mores wds from my microcuts. and it will even out and back to hopefully a better "wdnormal " again soon.

 

For anyone finding tapering almost impossible, or who are disheartened with holding.... I want to say , that , my taper has been about as turtle taper as anyone could get. I am managing about 1% a month, and even that is hard. I have had to change my expectations and listen to my body, i have a limit on how much suffering I can tolerate! THings have improved though, my 'wdnormal" is better than it was a year ago. I still get hit with intense symptoms even with my small reductions, but i don;t have the same expectations anymore as to what I can manage compared to say , Ashton speed. I'm a turtle and thats that .

 

I  remain hopeful that things will get better /easier as I get lower in dose, but only if I don't get ahead of myself with tapering.

I think this applies to most of us , and that is why this group is the BEST. I am a convert to throwing out the calendar, doing what I can , holding when things are too hard until they get easier.

Holding is HARD as others have said.

 

I think I'll find that quote from TNTD again and post it for anyone who might not have seen it , it was so helpful.

 

well, I'm rambling 

 

love and hugs , MiYu

 

 

 

[[...]]

posted by TNTD

 

"WDnormal is the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

Many people have the idea that stability is feeling good again, when in fact it's feeling the same level of blah day after day with no big swings to the better or bad. When a person does a drop in dose there will be a corresponding increase in WD symptoms over the next few days.  These symptoms will resolve themselves over the following several weeks and return the person to a slightly raised baseline of discomfort. The time frame and severity are dependent on a huge number of factors and end up being unique to each individual.  But the pattern remains.  This is why paying attention to your WDnormal is very important.  It is also referred to as listening to your body.  After a drop in dose and the symptoms have resolved to WDnormal the person then should wait a couple of more weeks to let things really settle out (there are a lot of little unfelt changer still going on) before considering doing their next drop.

 

During that waiting time people may think that they're not doing anything and want to get on with it.  When in fact doing nothing is very proactive.  It's those little unfelt things that need to be finished up before the next step can be taken.  It's letting the glue harden, the paint dry, the cement cure.  The things that need to be complete before the path is safe to walk on again.  If these details are ignored then they start to pile up and compound each other, then somewhere down the line the foundation slips out from under us and the whole thing collapses."

[[...]]

I think this quote  is appropriate for any of us who have reached that place where "everything collapses" , and we have to apply the long holds so we can get back to a place where we find a 'withdrawal normal" and can move forwards with our tapers , however slowly.......

 

miyu

[[He...]]

 

HEY THERE TOO MANY BENNIES......

I have never been in the position you are in now so I can only imagine how awful you must feel.

But I do know that no matter where you are in your taper, beginning, end, or maybe even have jumped already, these withdrawals stop cold when you least expect it.

I have had really bad wdsx leave me after having them for months.

I guess it all depends on how much one’s central nervous system needs to heal and adjust.

When I first started my journey of withdrawal I had the trembles day and night. Nobody  understood, because nobody could see me trembling inside. Anyway after about 6 months, one day they were just GONE ONE DAY. I WOKE UP AND THEY WERE JUST GONE. THEY NEVER BECAMES LESS AND LESS, THEY JUST STOPPED COLD TURKEY! And they never came back, except once for about 6 hours and then they were gone for good.

 

So please believe me.... don’t give up....your withdrawal pain WILL STOP! Have you read any of the success stories on the forum? They will help you to see how others coped after they jumped, and you will see that you are not alone in your crazy difficult time.

Hang in their buddy! You can do this. You have come soooo far. Hangin a while longer...you have proven how strong you are by getting to where you are now. You can do it!

But you if it helps at all, just know that I feel for you! And so do everyone else on this support group. You don’t ever have to apologize for being in the dumps. We are here to listen to you and give you the support you need for as long as you want!

 

So keep posting! We are here for you!

Heath :smitten:

 

Hi Heath. Thank you for your support. Your post actually brought tears to my eyes. I hope that time actually does heal -- it's all I have right now.

 

 

[[He...]]

I held for one week. Not really a long hold at all. Just long enough to make sure my feet are “steady on the ground”. I’m Feeling fine. Will start taper again very cautiously. Seems like my reason for holding was more from fear of getting bad wdsx again, when they actually turned out to be only blips.

But blip svare my warning sign!

Because iam micro tapering, it seems that I can catch any wdsx warnings right away, before anyth8ng gets really bad. So far I only have to hold for a week or 10 days to get myself on the right track again.

 

You know,I’m sorry but I had to cut out some things in my signature every so often because I run out of the allowable space( letters) allowable. I wonder why that is?

So now, my signature is missing pieces. Doesn’t give a clear picture! Sorry about that.

 

Heath

 

Hope everyone is feeling better today.

[[Wo...]]

Hi everyone just reading the last few pages and getting caught up.

 

I want to reply to a few people but don’t remember everyone’s name. There was mention of using cannabis for sleep and for that person (with nausea and insomnia) I am wondering if you spread your dose out over the day or just take once a day?

 

Also, teeth issues. I have a few cracked teeth and intense jaw tension. I’ve been waking myself up clenching my teeth. I’ve never had this before. I just got a fitting for a night guard. Wow.

 

As for myself, I just did another tiny cut and am now at .027. I do feel wavey today after a couple weeks of a good window. It’s not bad just very familiar burning, tired, dizzy etc.

 

That’s it for now. Good to catch up!

[[Ca...]]

Any experiences of people that didn't stabilize properly after 3 months but got better after 4,5,6+ months?

 

A lot of my symptoms stabilized pretty quickly (insomnia, anxiety, even dizziness after a while) but the worst ones (tinnitus and visual snow) are actually worse than before I started holding.

 

This is really making me lose hope again. I had a tiny week long window of these symptoms in month 2, but it seems the rest is just a worsening wave and it just keeps getting worse and worse. I'm really losing hope. Three months seems to be a long time to hold already am I'm not feeling any better.

Hi Make it..

I find it very easy to see how 4,6,8 mths holding can change the game...

I just read your sig, an am sure  remember when you joined.. Sorry that it has been like this...

I wondered on the kindling thoughts and how there was an issue from the first dose, if I have read things right...  -I might have to catch up. Sorry...

 

Yeah, I had some withdrawal from a first dose of 1 or 2mg ativan, but that was not so bad. Hell started when I went back on it (I didn't understand back then that those were wd symptoms from a single ativan, as that seems crazy), and when I tried to taper each time would be way too fast for my body so I kindled each time and got worse.

 

Since then I've been holding on 2.5mg valium for the past 3 months and it seems im just getting worse...

I guess a lot of what ifs from the start dont matter now.. It was another short term case I was thinking of earlier...

Sometimes it seems real unfair... but we take what life throws at us and continue with the new reality... Here I womder if its not more a reaction or effect, causing damage, over anything wd related... -to a lesser point now you have been on med a while...

I dont think kindling need be considered as a significant factor, if any...

 

What occured in the hours after that first tablet seems significant.. If the reregulation of neuro transmitters did not occur as normal, and presented as damage similar to weeks or months of use then holding might not have the same advantages as would normally be expected...

I guess you can see that there might be a case for getting off these benzos as fast as humanly possible, and also one for the opposite, -A very gentle taper in hope to minimise any long term damage, particularly with reguard to tinnitus... Sadly mine has reved right up now from reading about it..!!!

 

Anyway, best wishes, and i hope your off soon...

 

Yeah...even on the first dose the symptoms did not happen right away, it took a few days and progressively got worse, so it was withdrawal and not a reaction...Right now though..who knows, maybe both the withdrawal and the medication make me worse, in which case I have no hope to survive this, as it's not possible at all to stop the medication quickly for me, I've tried 3x at speeds that were not so fast and got destroyed each time...

Dont give up hope, as hard as it might seem... Sometimes it takes time to find the right path...

I take it your body didnt react or recouver from the first dose the same way most people do... -Things slowly got worse for a few days, then better, or relief from the intensity, when you started to take more?

The body hadnt had time to develop a tolerance to the medication to need to withdraw from, -allowing the body time to slowly re-adjust back to normal...  -A similar change seems to have occured from just that single dose..? -One that your body couldnt quickly rectify...

 

Some cases may require additional treatments, possibly with other meds... And possibly not the traditional tapering aids, but more specific to the tinnitus and visual snow (if even available)... A very personal choice and something already mentioned in the past, so im sure you have explored it...

 

The other obvious option you are exploring is trying to get to a "stable" or bearable place from which you can slow taper...  I think that if you can get to that point, then you can slow taper... A DLMT would probably suit best, and it may take some time...

 

But I look at the situations some of the people here have clawed their way out of, and I do hold hope for you...

Stay strong,

 

Best wishes...

 

 

[[Ca...]]

I did not keep track as I saw no problem.  I was at my height of 2 mg klon when my Dad died... a year later was about at 1 mg.  Then got to .5 no problem... then half a half so .25.  I was about there, or lower-- maybe 1/3 of a half mg, when took the mirtaz.

OMG was THAT a terrible idea.

And don't know if this also played a role but took Z pack antibiotic, long course, trying to get over a cough.

Then the shit hit the fan, as it were.

 

My drs said 'mirtazapine can't do that it is out of your body in a month.'  Nobody believed it.

 

I wonder Barbara if the antibiotic didn't start the sxs that you are having -- and sound so dreadful.  Antibiotics are known to be very very tricky when withdrawing....  Just an idea.  Not that it really matters much -- its all about how we get out of this realm.  But just in case there was another course of antibiotics in the offing....

 

Actually there is.  A tooth has been bothering me a lot and it had settled down but now not and I really should take amoxicillin for it.  But can that make me a lot worse?

 

OMG, what do I do?  Tooth hurts.

Hey Barb... How are things going now??

Tapering sure can have an impact on teeth, The nerves are sensitive and seem to have a mind of their own at times...

But I have seen too often, serious things getting left as just WD...

The glands that help protect us can be bipassed by a mouth/jaw infection, making things much more critical if things go bad...

I sure hope things get better soon...

 

 

[[St...]]

Hi folks glad to hear everyone is hanging in there.

  Yesterday was the day from hell.Waves of panic, agitation, hopelessness,blah,blah so on.Praying today is a better one.Going into town to take my sister out so fingers crossed all will be well.

    Stut X

[[Ca...]]

Hi folks glad to hear everyone is hanging in there.

  Yesterday was the day from hell.Waves of panic, agitation, hopelessness,blah,blah so on.Praying today is a better one.Going into town to take my sister out so fingers crossed all will be well.

    Stut X

sorry to hear Stut...

Hope today goes well to make up for it..!!

 

[[St...]]

Thank you Cant.l am definitely having a better day thank goodness.Amazing how quickly things change.

        Hopefully you are improving?

              Stut X

 

 

[[be...]]

Hi folks glad to hear everyone is hanging in there.

  Yesterday was the day from hell.Waves of panic, agitation, hopelessness,blah,blah so on.Praying today is a better one.Going into town to take my sister out so fingers crossed all will be well.

    Stut X

[[St...]]

Thank you begood l hope you are doing well today?I am keeping up with your blog.

      Stut X