The Long Hold Support Group

[[Gr...]]

Hey guys!  I'm just catching up on posts here. 

 

I've been holding at .0625 mg for seven weeks and two days now and I have just started feeling a bit depressed and like a negative cloud just landed on my life. 

 

My sleep is so unsatisfying lately.  I am very active in my dreams but also sleeping so lightly.  I had a dream last night that I was yelling at some people who woke me up, and they were so dismissive of me and my desire to sleep.  I was so angry that I woke myself up, and kind of laughed at myself, as my room was quiet and noone actually woke me up, except myself.  It's crazy cause I can remember the guy I was yelling at in my dream and the whole thing as if it really happened.

[[Wo...]]

Hi everyone. Greencup that’s hysterical. I’ve had such crazy dreams during light benzo sleep too. 

 

I’m here at .03. I’ve been in the longest window now than I have been in months. This kind of window feels like I’m barely in benzo withdrawal and I imagine it could last indefinitely if I didn’t cut again. Still looking for those success stories of people who just get better and better on the way down! I guess they have no reason to post here!

 

I plan to cut next week and am still on my trusty $20 gram scale. I’ll go down to .009 in weight which is around .5/.6 grams equivalent Valium and around .027 klonopin. I know it’s close to the Ashton jumping off point. Can anyone give their 2 cents on pros and cons of a jump at that dose? Is there ever a pro to not tapering down to crumbs? Thanks y’all!

[[...]]

Hi all,

 

While we are sharing our current levels, I will chime in as today is a milestone for me.

 

I started my micro dry taper of 0.001 mg per day at 0.125mg 25 days ago.

 

So today at hit the 0.100 mg level.  Tomorrow I will official be below 0.1 mg.

 

I know it is just a number but for some reason, exactly one-tenth of a milligram seems important.

 

My symptoms are tolerable - bad fatigue every day around 5pm, some fog, burping and some back pain.

 

If my symptoms get bad again, I will take Buspar for a few days.  It has worked twice in the past to keep my symptoms in check.

 

Good luck to everyone - I pray for all of us daily.

 

 

 

 

[[Ol...]]

Great job Bob!! A milestone! I think milestones are important because they give us something to aspire to even when the end is still not quite in sight. Something to celebrate!

[[...]]

Thanks OliveKitty - I think I will post it also on the under 0.125 mg Klonopin group, since that is where I started...

[[...]]

Wow, there sure has been a lot of activity. I forgot how quickly this thread goes.

 

What wonderful news that so many people are so low in their tapers and getting close to that jumping point 

 

Greencup I agree with WW about how funny that is. I also find that my crazy benzo dreams wake me up and they feel so real. Vivid dreams as a w/d sx are sometimes really crazy. I don't like it when they're nightmares though. I do have to ask about the depression though. Is it a w/d sx or are you just starting to feel down about holding?

 

WW I think I have read of people jumping at higher doses than you are on and they have done fine while others end up with horrible w/d sxs. I think the best thing to do is see how your next taper goes, what your w/d sxs are, if any, and then decide if you want to continue tapering based on your sxs. Everyone is different as to when it works for them to jump but I think if we each pay close attention to what our brains and bodies are telling us we will know what is right for us.

 

Hey Bob, I think milestones are important too. I CT'd off of Wellbutrin and have ended up having a horrible time trying to taper anything off my benzo. I do a liquid taper and started at 66mL with 1.25mg dissolved in it. I was so excited when I hit 60mL after a year and a half of tapering, lol. I only need four more of my tiny tapers and I'll have another milestone of hitting 1.125mg. Even though it isn't much it seems like such a huge accomplishment. I think yours is awesome and you should celebrate 

 

Barbra Ann and Ajusta I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. Unfortunately my brain feels like mush as far as thinking of helpful things right now. Can't has some wonderful thoughts though. Like Stut says, "it's all trial and error". I too wish I had something I could say that would help. Sending warm hugs though 

 

Well I seem to be coming out of the wave I've been in. I'm hoping I can stay wave free for awhile. There are some big things coming up though and all the activity in my house is really overstimulating. Hopefully my CNS will adjust and all the activity won't be a problem. I'm starting to get anxious about having to taper over to a new generic clonazepam. Last time didn't go well. This time I will be taking longer but I'm still really nervous about it. I won't start the taper over until June 6th but it's already starting to niggle at my subconcious. Hope I'm not stealing your word BG, I've always loved the word niggle

 

Hugs and healing everyone, 

T

 

[[...]]

I wanted to share this post from Peaceflower. She posted it on the micro-taper board but I thought it was appropriate for us here too. She got it from someone on Surviving Antidepressants.

 

"WDnormal is the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

Many people have the idea that stability is feeling good again, when in fact it's feeling the same level of blah day after day with no big swings to the better or bad. When a person does a drop in dose there will be a corresponding increase in WD symptoms over the next few days.  These symptoms will resolve themselves over the following several weeks and return the person to a slightly raised baseline of discomfort. The time frame and severity are dependent on a huge number of factors and end up being unique to each individual.  But the pattern remains.  This is why paying attention to your WDnormal is very important.  It is also referred to as listening to your body.  After a drop in dose and the symptoms have resolved to WDnormal the person then should wait a couple of more weeks to let things really settle out (there are a lot of little unfelt changer still going on) before considering doing their next drop.

 

During that waiting time people may think that they're not doing anything and want to get on with it.  When in fact doing nothing is very proactive.  It's those little unfelt things that need to be finished up before the next step can be taken.  It's letting the glue harden, the paint dry, the cement cure.  The things that need to be complete before the path is safe to walk on again.  If these details are ignored then they start to pile up and compound each other, then somewhere down the line the foundation slips out from under us and the whole thing collapses."

 

Hope it helps someone 

[[Ma...]]

Hi everyone. Greencup that’s hysterical. I’ve had such crazy dreams during light benzo sleep too. 

 

I’m here at .03. I’ve been in the longest window now than I have been in months. This kind of window feels like I’m barely in benzo withdrawal and I imagine it could last indefinitely if I didn’t cut again. Still looking for those success stories of people who jist get better and better on the way down! I guess they have no reason to post here!

 

I plan to cut next week and am still on my trusty $20 gram scale. I’ll go down to .009 in weight which is around .5/.6 grams eqivelqncy Valium and around .027 klonopin. I know it’s close to the Ashton jumping off point. Can anyone give their 2 cents on pros and cons of a jump at that dose? Is there ever a pro to not tapering down to crumbs? Thanks y’all!

 

I would love to know the answer to that question too.  I am thinking of going to zero on my xanax before I start titrating my valium and I am going to hold in between to make sure I have no sxs pop up.

[[be...]]

I wanted to share this post from Peaceflower. She posted it on the micro-taper board but I thought it was appropriate for us here too. She got it from someone on Surviving Antidepressants.

 

"WDnormal is the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

Many people have the idea that stability is feeling good again, when in fact it's feeling the same level of blah day after day with no big swings to the better or bad. When a person does a drop in dose there will be a corresponding increase in WD symptoms over the next few days.  These symptoms will resolve themselves over the following several weeks and return the person to a slightly raised baseline of discomfort. The time frame and severity are dependent on a huge number of factors and end up being unique to each individual.  But the pattern remains.  This is why paying attention to your WDnormal is very important.  It is also referred to as listening to your body.  After a drop in dose and the symptoms have resolved to WDnormal the person then should wait a couple of more weeks to let things really settle out (there are a lot of little unfelt changer still going on) before considering doing their next drop.

 

During that waiting time people may think that they're not doing anything and want to get on with it.  When in fact doing nothing is very proactive.  It's those little unfelt things that need to be finished up before the next step can be taken.  It's letting the glue harden, the paint dry, the cement cure.  The things that need to be complete before the path is safe to walk on again.  If these details are ignored then they start to pile up and compound each other, then somewhere down the line the foundation slips out from under us and the whole thing collapses."

 

Hope it helps someone 

Thanks for sharing this, it is a really good analogy for those that are still on the fence about letting the "Process Of Healing" occur.

 

BTW you can use niggling anytime you  want, just like my blips, I am happy to see words used to help anyway we can. I coined the word blips, because I could not say my wd was bad, it was just not as good, but tolerable. Happy you are doing well. "Patience and Time" always seems to help. 💖 Peace and Hugs.

[[Ol...]]

WDNormal! Such a perfect explanation! Sometimes when I'm feeling WDNormal and someone asks me how I am I say 'Not awful' or 'I don't feel totally shitty today' Sad but true!

I am feeling WD normal today. I took the cat to the vet and managed to water the garden but not a lot else, and that felt like real accomplishments! I was feeling kind of bad for being so incredibly unproductive lately, but this description helps me feel way better about it! 

[[Ca...]]

Hi everyone. Greencup that’s hysterical. I’ve had such crazy dreams during light benzo sleep too. 

 

I’m here at .03. I’ve been in the longest window now than I have been in months. This kind of window feels like I’m barely in benzo withdrawal and I imagine it could last indefinitely if I didn’t cut again. Still looking for those success stories of people who jist get better and better on the way down! I guess they have no reason to post here!

 

I plan to cut next week and am still on my trusty $20 gram scale. I’ll go down to .009 in weight which is around .5/.6 grams eqivelqncy Valium and around .027 klonopin. I know it’s close to the Ashton jumping off point. Can anyone give their 2 cents on pros and cons of a jump at that dose? Is there ever a pro to not tapering down to crumbs? Thanks y’all!

Hey WW..!!

How far you have come...!!

Am so happy you are feeling that bit better,

-and asking the good questions..!!

 

Imho... LOW abd SLOW... -Very SX guided, probably with a little extra healing time if doing a cut n hold...

In my case, at 0.25V, "Things" are happening.. Hard to put it in words.. SX are changing.. and I can feel that somehow my head is a little "cleaner".. There is not enough medication to do its thing, and its letting go...  But things are fragile, I can hardly dare to breathe, so to speak... I feel that for me, This is the most important part to take slow, and get right...

I tried to jump from 0.5V... Yeah, -No Thanks..!! -The tricky part was that it took 2-3 months to hit, and it hit hard..

If I could Micro taper from here, I would...

 

I guess the two schools of thought collide here..

-Healing, as one tapers, -SX guided...

Or,

-Healing once medication free, -rapid taper or CT...

 

Trouble being that we are all different, and many people Can fast taper with minimal issues...

Most of us probably assumed that would be us, but at some point we realised there were problems...

Sadly some are forced to continue to rapid taper, or maintain a CT, But the rest of us are left to find our way forward... While we all fit in the "Having Problems" group, We are all so very different still. But Yes, I think it is possible for most of us to find a taper speed that allows us to generally feel like it is getting slowly better, or at least functional most of the time... But im stopping short if saying easy...!!

 

I think those that have the best chance are the ones that work to understand Their taper, and take charge of its direction... To do this we need to believe in ourselves and what we are doing, sadly that often involves sifting through a lot of info and experiences... -Probably some trial and error too..!

 

And in this, I wish you all the very best...

 

[[Wo...]]

Bob - 

 

That’s awesome news!!!! Total milestone. You are doing so great!!!!

 

Cant - thanks for your words of wisdom. I am going to follow them.  I want to go slow and steady and make no mistakes. I am in no hurry. I was already put on this stuff for a failed cold turkey of a benzo I took a few times a month and know my system is sensitive.

 

The healing on the way down theory vs. you don’t heal until you are fully off theory.

 

Who believes the first and who the second? This is where I’d like to see more post taper reports of people who have done slow, long tapers reporting less acute symptoms and quicker healing. It’s like a huge research project of the data base of B.B. needs to happen. Any takers?

 

 

[[He...]]

Hi all,

 

While we are sharing our current levels, I will chime in as today is a milestone for me.

 

I started my micro dry taper of 0.001 mg per day at 0.125mg 25 days ago.

 

So today at hit the 0.100 mg level.  Tomorrow I will official be below 0.1 mg.

 

I know it is just a number but for some reason, exactly one-tenth of a milligram seems important.

 

My symptoms are tolerable - bad fatigue every day around 5pm, some fog, burping and some back pain.

 

If my symptoms get bad again, I will take Buspar for a few days.  It has worked twice in the past to keep my symptoms in check.

 

Good luck to everyone - I pray for all of us daily.

 

Congratulations  Bob!

Wow!  .1 mg

That is absolutely incredibly fantastic!

I am at. .5 mg. valium....  going really slow. .... being careful when those wdsx show their little heads! All the best to you Bob!

Heath

[[NJ...]]

I haven't posted much in a while. The new job has a longer commute and just less time to do anything. Which has its pluses and minuses.

 

But had another really bad night last night and woke up with diarrhea and intense nausea. I think it is hormones/PMS but hard to know anymore, as I am 49 and things are not regular. I have had some more depression which is normally a sign that it will be that time of the month.

 

So now I have to start my day with less than four hours of sleep/messed up GI system, drive an hour to work, put in an 8+ hour day due to a late meeting, and then drag my butt home. I really just want to stay home and cry!

 

Thought about calling in sick, but I have only 9 hours of sick time accrued so far (which actually isn't too bad; I started this job the first week of April) but I know I will not be able to sleep so that feels pointless.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

[[Ca...]]

I haven't posted much in a while. The new job has a longer commute and just less time to do anything. Which has its pluses and minuses.

 

But had another really bad night last night and woke up with diarrhea and intense nausea. I think it is hormones/PMS but hard to know anymore, as I am 49 and things are not regular. I have had some more depression which is normally a sign that it will be that time of the month.

 

So now I have to start my day with less than four hours of sleep/messed up GI system, drive an hour to work, put in an 8+ hour day due to a late meeting, and then drag my butt home. I really just want to stay home and cry!

 

Thought about calling in sick, but I have only 9 hours of sick time accrued so far (which actually isn't too bad; I started this job the first week of April) but I know I will not be able to sleep so that feels pointless.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

NJ, You are a strong one, for sure...

Probs not much help to you, but know you have the strength to get through...

I wish a good day for you, and a great nights sleep...

Also, thanks for all your good imput and thoughts on here...

Be well...

 

[[Aj...]]

I’d like to know more about the healing while holding theory.

 

Baylissa said it happens but I don’t know.

 

Can’t - I went to quickly the first time and got hit really hard a couple of months after stopping.

 

I had tapered right down to dust and it had been relatively okay until I was completely off so I think taking time is the only way.

[[NJ...]]

I do believe we heal as we taper and especially when we hold. I guess most who are on this thread do believe this. Many other parts of benzobuddies seems to not believe this, I am not really sure there is a way to know for sure.

 

Unfortunately for all of us, the medical community completely ignores this whole "medication discontinuation syndrome" issue. I personally feel that if people paid attention, maybe there would be better treatment/protocols for helping all of us.

[[be...]]

I know I am Healing as I go down, I feel it, of course I still have blips and deal with them, why would I taper if I did not feel I was healing, it stands to reason to me, that the Brain is healing as we go along, we just do not always feel it. But I feel so many things that have improved over time. Of course complete healing comes when we are off and that is another whole experience.Just my two cents.💖 Peace.

 

Meant to say also, I do feel like I am healing when I hold, it has been the best thing besides watching my % amts and not pushing through to get to a lower number.

[[Ca...]]

I’d like to know more about the healing while holding theory.

 

Baylissa said it happens but I don’t know.

 

Can’t - I went to quickly the first time and got hit really hard a couple of months after stopping.

 

I had tapered right down to dust and it had been relatively okay until I was completely off so I think taking time is the only way.

Ill have a crack at it... (but its gunna be clunky..)

Tapering is allowing the body to adjust or heal to get the same or similar effect from a lower dose... If we taper too fast the gap between where our healing is, and medicine intake, gets too big and we get bad WD SX... If we then Hold at that dose the body fights its way through -healing, upregulating, pushing for homeostasis...

I think the body heals better and a little faster with less stress from tapering, -so with minimal SX..

one reason why I recommend daily micro tapering, rather than my cut n hold via pill splitting, esp at low doses...

A good hold also allows for any laging SX to heal more than they would have if one continued to cut, Perhaps it also lets some healing consolidate a bit, giving credence to thise that report easier ir faster tapering post a long hold...

Again we are all different, and many factors come into play.. -original reason for benzos and other meds or medical conditions, being just a couple...

 

 

 

[[be...]]

I’d like to know more about the healing while holding theory.

 

Baylissa said it happens but I don’t know.

 

Can’t - I went to quickly the first time and got hit really hard a couple of months after stopping.

 

I had tapered right down to dust and it had been relatively okay until I was completely off so I think taking time is the only way.

Ill have a crack at it... (but its gunna be clunky..)

Tapering is allowing the body to adjust or heal to get the same or similar effect from a lower dose... If we taper too fast the gap between where our healing is, and medicine intake, gets too big and we get bad WD SX... If we then Hold at that dose the body fights its way through -healing, upregulating, pushing for homeostasis...

I think the body heals better and a little faster with less stress from tapering, -so with minimal SX..

one reason why I recommend daily micro tapering, rather than my cut n hold via pill splitting, esp at low doses...

A good hold also allows for any laging SX to heal more than they would have if one continued to cut, Perhaps it also lets some healing consolidate a bit, giving credence to thise that report easier ir faster tapering post a long hold...

Again we are all different, and many factors come into play.. -original reason for benzos and other meds or medical conditions, being just a couple...

Thanks Cant, well put analysis. 💖 Peace.

[[Aj...]]

Thanks!

 

Thing is when I take my 1mg diazepam tablet my brain is reacting to it and then having to adjust as it wears off again.

 

Everytime this happens some of my muscles relax a bit others are still rigid and then the squeezing starts until it is unbearable.

 

As it wears off the phobia of the touch and sound of the whole world including my own body starts to get worse. The facial numbness and feeling like my brain is sloshing around in my head comes and goes as well.

 

The vibrating starts both as the drug enters and leaves. There is a point in the middle where it stops.

 

I’m taking 4 doses a day.

 

Is my brain not just getting used to this pattern while also being further damaged by it and the stress it is causing?

 

That’s what I worry about.

 

How does it reach any kind of homeostasis when it is constantly being forced through this?

[[Ca...]]

Thanks!

 

Thing is when I take my 1mg diazepam tablet my brain is reacting to it and then having to adjust as it wears off again.

 

Everytime this happens some of my muscles relax a bit others are still rigid and then the squeezing starts until it is unbearable.

 

As it wears off the phobia of the touch and sound of the whole world including my own body starts to get worse. The facial numbness and feeling like my brain is sloshing around in my head comes and goes as well.

 

The vibrating starts both as the drug enters and leaves. There is a point in the middle where it stops.

 

I’m taking 4 doses a day.

 

Is my brain not just getting used to this pattern while also being further damaged by it and the stress it is causing?

 

That’s what I worry about.

 

How does it reach any kind of homeostasis when it is constantly being forced through this?

At a guess, it sounds like you are, in part, rather dependent on the therapeutic effect of muscle relaxation.. -as was I at the start.. It was why I took them.. I couldnt taper faster than the cramping allowed... For me, it got better as I got more stable...

As you write it, it sounds like you are in fairly serious WD, and perhaps the toxic/reacting stuff is wrapped up in that... Im not sure...

I guess the aim is to get stable enough to continue an acceptable taper...

The normal process is to hold as long as it takes or attempt a dose correction (some have success with another medication such as gabapentin or lyrica, but buyer beware)...

I dont think these options will change much...

That said, I would hate to miss a non related medical issue, so pls keep it in the back of your mind, -That not everything is benzo WD, all the time...

Stay strong...

[[Aj...]]

Thanks Can’t!

 

I have a lot of spinal & muscle problems. Had to have surgery in 2001.and not been able to sit without difficulty since then.

 

I was put on diazepam for all that stuff.

 

Without it I feel like I’m being crushed from top of head to toes.

[[To...]]

Hi buddies.

 

I wish I had better news - I am seeing a recurrence of panic attacks and overall anxiety. I spent February and March with all-day/night panic and near zero sleep for weeks. For just the past 4+ weeks I have been able to settle down and get 4+ hours of sleep on average. But, Saturday night I got 2 hours and the past two mornings I woke up at 4am and was in a panic for 3-4 hours.

 

It's wearing me down and I am really, really scared about falling back into the abyss that Feb and Mar were. Of course, that fear just leads to a vicious cycle creating more fear.

 

It's been tough for the people around me, as well. My wife sees me struggling and bursts into tears. I feel so frustrated and want to jump out of my skin. I feel so vulnerable with there being no option for anything to take the edge off.

 

I'm sorry to lay this on the group, but I do find comfort here. It helps a bit to just write it down.

 

 

[[Ol...]]

TMB, I'm so sorry. Windows and waves are so hard! You get a window and you feel like finally you are getting somewhere and then a wave hits. I understand completely. Hopefully another window is just around the corner. And it is so hard to be emotionally connected to someone during this, your suffering is affecting her so much. I am the same with my partner, he is so deeply affected by my anxiety and there's nothing I can really do about it. It's a very helpless feeling. Sending love.