The Long Hold Support Group

[[Ca...]]

Hi Bozobertie!

I see it took you about 1 1/2 years to get from 1 mg to jump off Valium.

I imagine it will take me that long too.

You give me lots of hope as I am at .827 Valium right now. I hope I can jum by Jan 2019... but really I am not set in my way. Whatever it is, it is.

Thanks for staying with us and encouraging us. I aporeciate it and I am sure everyone else doestoo. And....BRAVO! To you! Congratulations for keeping up the fight....AND WINNING!

 

Heathcliff

 

I am at 1.74 and will be happy if I can get off that in 2 years. Agree with everything people have said about the value of holding until symptoms clear - I am finally having a decent day after a week or so of hell, the result of cutting .03 about two weeks ago.

[[ly...]]

 

 

HS,

 

Perhaps you could state what your fears are regarding a long hold.  This might help people understand your situation.

[[To...]]

TMB

I Just read your sig and see that you reduced your dose by ABOUT 12% in a Month! Yikes. I could never do that! I am very close in my dose to where you are, but I can only reduce by about 5or 6 % a month. All power to you!

May I ask, are you doing a micro taper? How are you doing it?

 

Thanks, Heathcliff

Heath, yes, I noted that I dropped 12.5% in yesterday's post, and this is why I am most likely feeling this last cut. I am dry cutting and I have .5 mg lorazepam tablets (smallest available). I can easily cut them in half, they are scored for that, to get to .25mg. I then carefully cut half of a half to get to a reasonably accurate .125 mg, which is about as low as I can go by cutting tablets. Biggest issue is if, for my next cut, I take .125 mg off my current .875 mg daily level, that is a 14% cut. Too steep.

 

So, I will probably be looking at figuring out how to do dissolve some tablets and start doing part liquid, part tablets to get to a more controllable and gradual step down. At some point, I guess, I'll have to be totally on liquid.

[[He...]]

 

 

HS,

 

Perhaps you could state what your fears are regarding a long hold.  This might help people understand your situation.

 

My doctor has told me the Ativan is no longer working for me....my body is gobbling it up in an hour and a half....I'm having interdose withdrawals..... and horrendous anxiety and little sleep.

Everyone tells me that my family doctor does not have the experience that a p doc would have....not willing to change me over to a longer acting med.......

 

I haven't gotten off that much of this medication....when you held you had cut a ton of your med......

 

The other day I called 20 p docs and left messages. I got 2 responses...one said rehab the other said I was too complicated and would pass..

 

I don't have a lot of support from my family and can't drive far out of my comfort zone....or travel out of state as some have recommended.

 

I'm a mess....and I don't feel I'm getting the help I need professionally.

 

I guess those are my fears. That I can't get off and I can't stay on....basically stuck

[[He...]]

Hi Healing Seeker,

I think I know how you feel.

My pdoc is great for listening to me talk about my wdsx. And he's a really nice guy. He's letting me taper the way it works for ME. He prscribes when ever I need a refill.  No complaints here.

 

But, when I first started going to him, he never gave me any advice on how to get off this poison. I don't ven know if he knew for sure. That's when I got into bad shape, cutting too fast and cutting too big.so I went on the internet and found benzobuddies. I got all my info from this forum. At first I was doing everything wrong. I was cuttin too big and too fast. My doc did not offer any solution. At that point  I started to tell him about this website. I told him about. All the info I found on the internet, about Ashton, about going slow, about holds etc. he kind of thought I was nuts by the look he gave me. He told me to get off the Internet. But what else could I do? He wasn't doing very much in tapering advice and that's how I wound up in bad shape.

 

At that point I said to myself....I think this guy may be great for all the reasons I need him for...prescriptions and listening to my ideas, but as far as how to get off this Valium poison, it's benzo buddies that I listened to and trust implicitly.

 

Now I am NOT telling you to not listen to your doc.

But I do brlieve that some of these docs have never been we we are. They just read about it and think they know best. And I dont think they are trying to harm. ( BUT IF THEY WERE THAT KNIWLEDGEABLE, WHY WOULDTHEY PRESCRIBE THIS POISON IN THE FIRST PLACE???!!!!) ,I just think they really don't know that everyone is different and each person has to taper the way is best for them. I guess in that area my pdoc is very understanding and is letting me do just that.ut it is benzo buddies that is "steering my car" !!

 

For me, it came a time when I realized what was best for me, those who had been through what I am going through, who had first hand experience,etc. it was EASY for ME to trust benzo buddies forum.

 

All I want to say is IMO ...... stop, do some soul seaching, and think for yourself, how do you want to get off this stuff? Which is the best way fir YOU? From listening to YOUR body, you will discover what and when is the best way to taper for YOU.

AGAIN, IM NOT TELLING YOU TO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR DOC....BUT MAYBE A HEART TO HEART DISCUSSION IS IN ORDER ABOUT GOING SLOW, INCORPORATING HOLDS  ETC

 

IF I AM SHOTING OFF MY MOUTH I AM SORRY. YOU DO T HAVE TO LISTEN TO A WORD I AM SAYING. I JUST THINK YOU NEED TO BE A PARTNER WITH YOUR DOCTOR AND NOT JUST TRUST BLINDLY. AND THAT GOES FOR THIS FORUM TOO AND ANY ONE WHO OFFERS ADVICE. LISTEN TO EXPERT ADVICE FROM YOUR DOC, FROM THIS FORUM, FROM RELIABLE BOOKS ANDBOTHER SOURCES, THINK ,THINKA ABIUT YOUR EXPERIENCES., AND COME UP WITH AN EDUCATED SOLUTION FOR YOU.

 

I HOPE I HAVE HELPED. I'll shut up now.

 

I wish you the best, and if the long hold group does not work fir you, so be it... but don't be led around by anyone or anything without using your ownsmart brain.

 

I wish you all the best! ( I am still learning too!) be strong! Fight this benzo devil! You are worth this fight! Take care of you! It's a hard, long, tough journey, but YOU CAN DO IT.

 

Heathcliff

[[ly...]]

 

 

HS,

 

Perhaps you could state what your fears are regarding a long hold.  This might help people understand your situation.

 

My doctor has told me the Ativan is no longer working for me....my body is gobbling it up in an hour and a half....I'm having interdose withdrawals..... and horrendous anxiety and little sleep.

Everyone tells me that my family doctor does not have the experience that a p doc would have....not willing to change me over to a longer acting med.......

 

I haven't gotten off that much of this medication....when you held you had cut a ton of your med......

 

The other day I called 20 p docs and left messages. I got 2 responses...one said rehab the other said I was too complicated and would pass..

 

I don't have a lot of support from my family and can't drive far out of my comfort zone....or travel out of state as some have recommended.

 

I'm a mess....and I don't feel I'm getting the help I need professionally.

 

I guess those are my fears. That I can't get off and I can't stay on....basically stuck

 

The only thing I can say HS is that there is no therapeutic benefit to most (any?) of us.  It just staves off acute wd.  And we all have interdose wd - this is what our sxs are.  Maybe worse towards end of dose but present all the time to some degree.  So I really don't think your situation is unique.  I think you should talk with your husband and doctor and decide what is the right path for you.  I have read accounts of buddies that were having a toxic reaction to the drug.  I don't know if that is the case with you.  Do you space out your dose?  Divide it up?  I was dosing 4 or 5 times a day earlier in my taper.

 

Best wishes on whatever you decide.

[[He...]]

Heath and Lynn

So thankful to your years of experience...........

The very fact that I had such severe sxs with a .125 cut 8 hours after.....and I don't think it was psychological.....I wasn't ready to reduce the dose topped off with my daughters rant about her addicted Mother ( that upset me beyond belief). I wasn't ready......I'm wondering if I'll ever be ready to be honest with you.  I didn't want to do this in the first place.  I thought it would make my pain problem worse and it has.  One p doc told me I WOULD FAIL.

 

I talked to my therapist for an hour on the phone......he said he would call my family doctor and tell him that his opinion is that I should hold.

 

 

How in the world do I handle this anxiety??  I can barely breathe

 

There are ping pong balls bouncing around in my head.....my husband leaves for a golfing trip tomorrow........I can't let on to him how much I'm suffering.  I did not tell him about the conversation with my daughter..

 

I'm rambling...I'm sorry...

 

Thanks for helping me..

 

Tips for anxiety???  THIS IS SO HARD

❤️HS

[[He...]]

I read the posts on the withdrawal board and they are just frightening.......

I'll be 65 in February.....I don't want to do this my whole life and miss my grandkids .....my doctor says what choice do I have??

Do I have a choice???

HS

[[Su...]]

Heath and Lynn

So thankful to your years of experience...........

The very fact that I had such severe sxs with a .125 cut 8 hours after.....and I don't think it was psychological.....I wasn't ready to reduce the dose topped off with my daughters rant about her addicted Mother ( that upset me beyond belief). I wasn't ready......I'm wondering if I'll ever be ready to be honest with you.  I didn't want to do this in the first place.  I thought it would make my pain problem worse and it has.  One p doc told me I WOULD FAIL.

 

I talked to my therapist for an hour on the phone......he said he would call my family doctor and tell him that his opinion is that I should hold.

 

 

How in the world do I handle this anxiety??  I can barely breathe

 

There are ping pong balls bouncing around in my head.....my husband leaves for a golfing trip tomorrow........I can't let on to him how much I'm suffering.  I did not tell him about the conversation with my daughter..

 

I'm rambling...I'm sorry...

 

Thanks for helping me..

 

Tips for anxiety???  THIS IS SO HARD

❤️HS

Hi HS,

sorry that things are hard for you and that your daughter is showing such a lack of understanding or informed empathy about what you and others are going through here.  Trust us!  we would all be off tomorrow if that was possible!

 

I wanted to chime in about short and long acting benzos.  I took Xanax for years once a day with no discomfort.  During the tapering process my doc added 4mg of valium, the long-half-life, short duration of action med. as I was unable to tolerate the interdose w/d that were coming in the evening.

 

I know I take the Valium 4X a day, the Xanax once at night.  When I tried to take the Valium once a day and the Xanax 4X a day it was a disaster! My anxiety was through the roof. 

 

I think you've had some good advice about holding here from folks who have benefitted tremendously!  I know that holds help me and the questioning of what to do daily makes me batty -- drives my anxiety.

 

As for help with anxiety, distraction can help a lot.  Short walks if possible, guided visualizations,, watching comedies, knitting, doing any project that can take out mind off how we are feeling, baking, cooking, talking with friends about stuff other than w/d, meditation helps me tremendously -- couldn't do this without it, but I am a long-term meditator, singing, music, dancing.... the list can go on...

Is it hard to do this stuff?  you betcha! but so is sitting in our own anxiety all day.....

You can do it HS!  We can all do it!  We just will all find out own way to do it...

:smitten:

SS

[[Su...]]

I read the posts on the withdrawal board and they are just frightening.......

I'll be 65 in February.....I don't want to do this my whole life and miss my grandkids .....my doctor says what choice do I have??

Do I have a choice???

HS

Don't read the post on the withdrawal board!!!!  I'm 60 and if I'm doing this for five years so be it..

but

Don't read the post on the withdrawal board!!!

scare the bejeezus out of me , NOT HELPFUL, NOT HELPFUL, NOT HELPFUL.

this thread is helpful as are a few others, a few.....

[[He...]]

Good advice SS

 

The withdrawal boards almost drove me off of BB

 

BUT every time I write my problems.....I feel like I'm one of them and am just upsetting people here.

No one wants to hear it really.  I get that and I'm sorry

❤️HS

[[He...]]

 

 

HS,

 

Perhaps you could state what your fears are regarding a long hold.  This might help people understand your situation.

 

My doctor has told me the Ativan is no longer working for me....my body is gobbling it up in an hour and a half....I'm having interdose withdrawals..... and horrendous anxiety and little sleep.

Everyone tells me that my family doctor does not have the experience that a p doc would have....not willing to change me over to a longer acting med.......

 

I haven't gotten off that much of this medication....when you held you had cut a ton of your med......

 

The other day I called 20 p docs and left messages. I got 2 responses...one said rehab the other said I was too complicated and would pass..

 

I don't have a lot of support from my family and can't drive far out of my comfort zone....or travel out of state as some have recommended.

 

I'm a mess....and I don't feel I'm getting the help I need professionally.

 

I guess those are my fears. That I can't get off and I can't stay on....basically stuck

 

The only thing I can say HS is that there is no therapeutic benefit to most (any?) of us.  It just staves off acute wd.  And we all have interdose wd - this is what our sxs are.  Maybe worse towards end of dose but present all the time to some degree.  So I really don't think your situation is unique.  I think you should talk with your husband and doctor and decide what is the right path for you.  I have read accounts of buddies that were having a toxic reaction to the drug.  I don't know if that is the case with you.  Do you space out your dose?  Divide it up?  I was dosing 4 or 5 times a day earlier in my taper.

 

Best wishes on whatever you decide.

 

Lynn

To answer your question....I dose 5 times a day....including one in the middle of the night....wake up in withdrawal..

 

HS

[[He...]]

I took a dose of Ativan at noon....it's now 1:15 and I'm starting to feel agitated and shakey inside.

 

What does that tell you?  Should last longer don't you think?

HS

[[He...]]

TMB

I Just read your sig and see that you reduced your dose by ABOUT 12% in a Month! Yikes. I could never do that! I am very close in my dose to where you are, but I can only reduce by about 5or 6 % a month. All power to you!

May I ask, are you doing a micro taper? How are you doing it?

 

Thanks, Heathcliff

Heath, yes, I noted that I dropped 12.5% in yesterday's post, and this is why I am most likely feeling this last cut. I am dry cutting and I have .5 mg lorazepam tablets (smallest available). I can easily cut them in half, they are scored for that, to get to .25mg. I then carefully cut half of a half to get to a reasonably accurate .125 mg, which is about as low as I can go by cutting tablets. Biggest issue is if, for my next cut, I take .125 mg off my current .875 mg daily level, that is a 14% cut. Too steep.

 

So, I will probably be looking at figuring out how to do dissolve some tablets and start doing part liquid, part tablets to get to a more controllable and gradual step down. At some point, I guess, I'll have to be totally on liquid.

 

 

I went to All liquid for that exact reason. I was on a 2 mg pill and halving it and halving it again to get to 1/4 of a pill. When I had to cut to a smaller amount it became impossible to have an accurate dose. That's when I switched to liquid Valium. It makes it so much more accurate.

But I don't know if lorazepam comes in liquid or how to make it into a liquid. So good luck! I'm sure some one on this long hold support group will be able to help you when you are ready to mix a solution of something to make liquid lorazepam.

 

Thanks for hangin n in here. It's such a good group!

 

Heath

[[He...]]

TMB

 

PM builder. He will help you with that

❤️HS

[[Gi...]]

Hello HS,

 

I will be 65 in Dec.  I'm so sorry to read your struggles.  I slowed my taper way down and incorporated holds so I could enjoy my grandchildren.  It has helped. 

 

Lately anxiety and occ outright panic attacks have resurfaced for no reason I can think of.  I'm reading a book on mindfulness and have begun to just acknowledge the anxiety without really owning it.  Takes some practice but it has helped.  Distraction is the best, and someone else mentioned it.  It isn't easy but for me doing something physical, like gardening or yard work, can take the edge off it.

 

Please continue to post your struggles and stay off the withdrawal sites.  I haven't looked at any but this one and the tapering off ativan site.  Ignorance is bliss when it comes to withdrawal horror stories.

 

Above all, please don't give up.  The body can develop tolerance for any dose, so ultimately no dose, no matter how high, would ever be enough, it would continually take more and more. 

 

Kudos to those who are off, like Lynn and Bertie.  You persevered and you won. I hope to join you soon so I am interested in your post taper experience. G.

[[He...]]

Hi ginger mint,

Your post inspires me. I am a senior as well, a bit older than you. I too am tapering slowly and have learned the hard way through some tough experiences that a slow taper is the best way to go.

I have been told by many that it is harder to cut one's dose the lower you go. I see you are at a very very small dose. No wonder you have to go so slow, I hope I have the patience to go so slow and so small when I get to that tiny amount.

 

I hope all keeps going well  for you!

Congratulations on your journey so far.

I'm sure your jump to freedom is just around the corner.

 

All the best!

 

Heathcliff

 

[[He...]]

Thank you for all that are putting up with me.....

 

Since the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is not working fir me......

 

I'm wondering if a liquid micro taper would help me

 

Amy one who is having success with this could please chime in.....I'm sensitive and any change seems to bother me.

 

Tips.......

 

I asked builder for help

 

Would be grateful for your experiences

❤️HS

[[He...]]

In reading about it.....some people like it....some hate it....

 

I need more info

Thanks

[[...]]

Thank you for all that are putting up with me.....

 

Since the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is not working fir me......

 

I'm wondering if a liquid micro taper would help me

 

Amy one who is having success with this could please chime in.....I'm sensitive and any change seems to bother me.

 

Tips.......

 

I asked builder for help

 

Would be grateful for your experiences

❤️HS

 

I want to commend on how far you have come! This is not easy at all. I am 63 and it seems harder as I get older. This a big challenge, but can be overcome.

I think the liquid micro taper may be a great option. I was doing the water titration, but the K was not dissolving and I was not getting consistent doses. I ended up getting very symptomatic. I cut my .1mg over 2 months and then sat and took another .025mg off. More symptoms. Finally took my K, crushed and divided it to where I was getting my dose of 1.875mg. I asked Builder to help with a liquid water/Vodka/k titration without wasting the drug. He really helped me,but I have not started yet, due to symptoms. I plan to start very soon. It is worth a try.

I am Praying for you and I know you will get better!  It is hard to stay positive when we are this, but from past experience with a horrid C/T, I know it can be done.

I will keep you posted on my taper when I resume.

God Bless.

[[To...]]

TMB

I Just read your sig and see that you reduced your dose by ABOUT 12% in a Month! Yikes. I could never do that! I am very close in my dose to where you are, but I can only reduce by about 5or 6 % a month. All power to you!

May I ask, are you doing a micro taper? How are you doing it?

 

Thanks, Heathcliff

Heath, yes, I noted that I dropped 12.5% in yesterday's post, and this is why I am most likely feeling this last cut. I am dry cutting and I have .5 mg lorazepam tablets (smallest available). I can easily cut them in half, they are scored for that, to get to .25mg. I then carefully cut half of a half to get to a reasonably accurate .125 mg, which is about as low as I can go by cutting tablets. Biggest issue is if, for my next cut, I take .125 mg off my current .875 mg daily level, that is a 14% cut. Too steep.

 

So, I will probably be looking at figuring out how to do dissolve some tablets and start doing part liquid, part tablets to get to a more controllable and gradual step down. At some point, I guess, I'll have to be totally on liquid.

 

 

I went to All liquid for that exact reason. I was on a 2 mg pill and halving it and halving it again to get to 1/4 of a pill. When I had to cut to a smaller amount it became impossible to have an accurate dose. That's when I switched to liquid Valium. It makes it so much more accurate.

But I don't know if lorazepam comes in liquid or how to make it into a liquid. So good luck! I'm sure some one on this long hold support group will be able to help you when you are ready to mix a solution of something to make liquid lorazepam.

 

Thanks for hangin n in here. It's such a good group!

 

Heath

I had asked my doc for liquid lorazepam and she did not want to do it. I should have asked "why?", but did not get to that question. Otherwise, she has been a great doctor and partner on my taper. I'm guessing that it is not going to be a big deal to do liquid titration. I just started looking around online for some of the materials that I might need for my liquid "kit". I'll take HS's suggestion to contact Builder sometime soon.

 

Thank you, Heath, for being in these groups. You are very active and supportive. A great buddie!

[[Ai...]]

Hi ginger mint,

Your post inspires me. I am a senior as well, a bit older than you. I too am tapering slowly and have learned the hard way through some tough experiences that a slow taper is the best way to go.

I have been told by many that it is harder to cut one's dose the lower you go. I see you are at a very very small dose. No wonder you have to go so slow, I hope I have the patience to go so slow and so small when I get to that tiny amount.

 

I hope all keeps going well  for you!

Congratulations on your journey so far.

I'm sure your jump to freedom is just around the corner.

 

All the best!

 

Heathcliff

 

Hi Heathcliff,

it seems we are on the same boat...I'm doing  tiny cuts (0.025mg V) every month but I think that now I need to hold for a while (1-2 months). Probably it will take me 3 years  to wean off this last 0.625mg of V. So long...

[[Kg...]]

Healing Seeker:  I don't have any advise for you but you may want to PM Rosegal (look at her buddy blog).  I say this because she was on Ativan, then Valium and had an awful time of it.  She is also around your age.    Now she is fine and off of everything.  Perhaps she can make some suggestions for what you can do.  It is just a thought. 

 

Kgirl

[[He...]]

Thanks

[[NJ...]]

HS:

 

I am on a different drug (klonopin) but I did try a compounded suspension to do a taper and it was a nightmare. My body never got used to a different medium and it was awful. I just reinstated and gave up tapering at that time.

 

Everyone is different. Just be aware that if you switch, if you are super sensitive, you may want to switch over slowly to see if it is an issue for you.