The Long Hold Support Group

[[an...]]

OH GARD...!!!

YOU KNOW YOU NEED SOME....

Hope your doing ok...

 

Now this I can process!

 

Me too!!  :smitten:

[[an...]]

Morning all, hope your days go well...

ummm.. -its midnight..!!!

Have some cake with ur cuppa.. -and enjoy your day also...!!

 

Try to get some sleep Can't.  We will save you some cake.  :smitten:

[[Ca...]]

Morning all, hope your days go well...

ummm.. -its midnight..!!!

Have some cake with ur cuppa.. -and enjoy your day also...!!

 

Try to get some sleep Can't.  We will save you some cake.  :smitten:

oh, you should have seen the ONES I ate..!!

Yes... just starting to feel sleep is possible now...  my little window...

Take care...

 

Night All...

[[...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

[[sl...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

[[...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

This chart is in context of each individul cut. The prolonged w/d curve is for after people are fully off the meds though.

My doctor doesn't believe in CT's for benzo's, or AD's. He does do detoxing though, done in 21 days...ouch!!  We discussed the fact that in the cases of fast tapers/detoxing that a lot of people have long term w/d sxs that can go on for years, well past what this chart displays.

 

I don't think my doctor was focusing on the dosage more on the type, long acting, short acting, etc. I think this chart is accurate for some people but not all. Those of us who are more sensitive don't recover as quickly I don't think, the problem is convincing the doctors of this.

 

Lynn, I think it's interesting that the chart fit for you after you did a long hold. That is quite encouraging.

 

Hope everyone had a passable day 

[[ly...]]

 

 

tntd,

 

After my 4 month hold last year I just played the first cut by ear - a 10% cut.  It seemed that things were good after 3 weeks and I gave it the extra week for more healing and just to be sure (once/twice burned and all that ).  That seemed to go well until I hit about .1mg and things started to ramp.  Then I dropped the cuts (monthly) by 50% and did 1/3 every 10 days.  This also went well as I recovered nicely within the 10 days.  I kept the cuts the same the rest of the way off.  As long as we use our symptoms and recovery time as a guide I think this whole taper business can go (fairly) smoothly.

[[He...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

Will someone please explain what this chart is? Am I a dummy?

Heath

[[Ca...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

Will someone please explain what this chart is? Am I a dummy?

Heath

I guess this is what I call "lag time"... -The SX following a particular and singular cut...

 

With my big cut, following a long hold, and followed by a long hold, My personal curve was rather clear, and suprisingly long...  with peaks of similar intensity at 11 days and about 60 days out...

-kinda looked like a motorcross track...

 

I then read some unofficial stuff that suggests our whole body concentration/level of, in this case valium, 5 to 7 times that of our current dose concentration... The accumulation of half life, type thing..

 

It all goes to make me think, how can one not slow taper, guided by their own SX...

-Takes the complication out of it all...

??

 

 

[[He...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

Will someone please explain what this chart is? Am I a dummy?

Heath

I guess this is what I call "lag time"... -The SX following a particular and singular cut...

 

With my big cut, following a long hold, and followed by a long hold, My personal curve was rather clear, and suprisingly long...  with peaks of similar intensity at 11 days and about 60 days out...

-kinda looked like a motorcross track...

 

I then read some unofficial stuff that suggests our whole body concentration/level of, in this case valium, 5 to 7 times that of our current dose concentration... The accumulation of half life, type thing..

 

It all goes to make me think, how can one not slow taper, guided by their own SX...

-Takes the complication out of it all...

??

 

 

I still don't understand what that chart is all about.

 

About what you wrote  Cant,

You mean if I was on a dose of 1 mg, the concentration in my body would be 7x that amount?

 

But as time goes by, and I keep dosing, doesn't  the dose I took 14 days ago leave my body? For every dose I take, isn't a dose from long ago leaving my body entirely, say after 15 days? Kind of like the newer dose replaces the dose of 15 days ago, because that dose has been slowly diminishing and has finally disappeared?

 

I thought a lag time of Valium was about 15 days.

So what you are saying is that even if the lag time is 15 dYs, the. Allium can still be in my body after 15 days?

 

Ok I'm so confused.

 

So is that why Lynn is still getting mild blippy side effects?

 

Why don't I understand?  Benzobrain

 

Heath :

 

[[sl...]]

Well at least there are two of us Heath

[[be...]]

Well at least there are two of us Heath

And now "Three"...

[[sl...]]

:laugh:

Do have to admit though that math/graphs/charts have never been my strong point.

I'm gonna stop worrying about it.

[[Ca...]]

Make that 4...

 

You are so close heath... -so very close...

-Its only my opinion anyway... -sort of... (I dont have citations)

 

Medication is longer than 2x half life.. 2x half life is more like a quater of original... -each half keeps halving... ish... There is a formular somewhere... But beyond half life it doesnt realy matter...

 

So yes.. -simplisticly, the doses accumilate X say 7 -and then turn over as per total half life, or more the blood concentration levels...

 

And apparently some "bits" store in places too... fat, plasma, bone..??

 

Again correct, Lynn would be slightly detoxing still... -only just though, -X -short half life, plus slow taper to low dose..

I doubt a drug test would pick anything up, even a good test...

 

Sorry, rushing for dinner...

 

[[ly...]]

 

 

I think I read that in long time users xanax can be detected in a blood test for a couple of months.  This was on a site where people were worried about what a blood test would show - employment tests, mainly.  I remember thinking "wow" that's a long time.

 

What I am still experiencing are some mild symptoms - neck tension, T, tingling in lower legs/feet.  These have been pretty consistent wd sxs for me since day one of my taper.  I've had a ton of others at different times during my taper but it's just these 3 now - and, with the exception of a little "here and there", this has been the case since my hold last Spring.

 

I don't know (obviously!) when these will go away.  It could be a long time...but they don't bother me and go pretty much unnoticed - I don't notice anything at all when I'm doing something.  Usually I notice this stuff on waking (they are at the most elevated at this time) or going to sleep.  In other words, when I have nothing on my mind.

 

I understand the chart and it seems to mirror my experience.  I guess it would vary depending on how much was cut...but it matches for me at 10%.  Maybe I could say that it was 3 wks for recovery (to mild baseline) and not the full 30 days.  But it's close enough.  Of course, this chart is "on average".

[[ly...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

Will someone please explain what this chart is? Am I a dummy?

Heath

 

Heath, this is the way I look at the chart:

 

I was a high dose user of a short-acting benzo.

 

So, I look at the upper line on the left/middle of the chart.  Sxs ramp then start dropping and are all the way down at about 30 days.  So...with each cut this should be the pattern (ramping/fading) of my symptoms.

 

edit:  Okay, thinking about it...it may be that my cuts when I got low (.3) took on the experience of a "low dose short acting" taper as things cleared around day 21.  Hope this makes sense!

[[Ca...]]

If You Look at it in detail...

 

 

The real point is...

 

That T managed post the link... AND it works...

 

Humans -1

Computers -0

-We win..!!

 

Thanks Lynn, well put...

[[sl...]]

:laugh:

Well that's a good point, Cant 

We don't often win against computers do we.

 

Hope you are well today - or is it night for you?

[[Se...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

Will someone please explain what this chart is? Am I a dummy?

Heath

 

Heath, this is the way I look at the chart:

 

I was a high dose user of a short-acting benzo.

 

So, I look at the upper line on the left/middle of the chart.  Sxs ramp then start dropping and are all the way down at about 30 days.  So...with each cut this should be the pattern (ramping/fading) of my symptoms.

 

edit:  Okay, thinking about it...it may be that my cuts when I got low (.3) took on the experience of a "low dose short acting" taper as things cleared around day 21.  Hope this makes sense!

 

 

That is how I see it also FWIW. Except I am low dose short acting.

[[Va...]]

Here's a half life calculator for anyone having a hard time understanding "accumulation". Although it doesn't really explain the blood plasma levels, it helps to understand the concentration of the dose over time if that makes sense. Hope all are well! --V

 

http://www.medschat.com/Drugs/half-life-calculator.asp

[[sl...]]

Wow that's a helpful list.

Thank you.

I see what they mean about Diazepam now.

 

Yes I'm well Valley

Hope you are ?

[[Su...]]

Thanks Valley,

that chart is interesting and a bit scary as i look to starting to taper the diazepam.  slowly!

Hope everyone is well....

SS

[[He...]]

This link should take you to the chart I was talking about.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/pub

 

I tested it and I was able to go to the document, Yay.  Sorry, I'm just so excited I figured out a way to give you access to it  I got a little 

 

HI T , was this chart in the context of post taper , or CT? I wonder what they mean by low dose or higher dose ? Interesting but out of context I couldn't really relate my personal situation to it , unless I missed something in an earlier post ? Also they seem to indicate acute being more intense from short acting benzos , well we know this isn't true right , with a slow taper , Lynn being our current example 

Love , MiYu 

I'm glad you asked that MiYu.

I couldn't relate it to my situation either.

I don't know whether I'm on a high dose or not.

i know valium is long acting [at least I think it is ?]

 

Will someone please explain what this chart is? Am I a dummy?

Heath

 

Heath, this is the way I look at the chart:

 

I was a high dose user of a short-acting benzo.

 

So, I look at the upper line on the left/middle of the chart.  Sxs ramp then start dropping and are all the way down at about 30 days.  So...with each cut this should be the pattern (ramping/fading) of my symptoms.

 

edit:  Okay, thinking about it...it may be that my cuts when I got low (.3) took on the experience of a "low dose short acting" taper as things cleared around day 21.  Hope this makes sense!

 

Well, it makes a little sense.

Thanks for trying to get it through my head for me. I guess there's not much more than burning wood up in my noggin right now!

[[He...]]

Here's a half life calculator for anyone having a hard time understanding "accumulation". Although it doesn't really explain the blood plasma levels, it helps to understand the concentration of the dose over time if that makes sense. Hope all are well! --V

 

http://www.medschat.com/Drugs/half-life-calculator.asp

 

Ok, Valley, thanks,  now this chart and calculation speaks to me a lot better than the first one.

I think I got it now. But I dont like it! That means that even if I am taking under a mg every day, CANT WAS RIGHT! There is a great deal more than that in my system like mYbe 8 times more?

The amount in my body keeps halving every day, but I am also adding that dose every day on top of the previous dose. So when you put all those doses together, in their own stage of halving, you get a lot more of the drug in your body than your single daily dose!

 

Aha! Do I get it now? I think so.

Yay!   I got it, I got it!  I THINK! Looks like it takes EACH INDIVIDUAL DOSE of Valium to leave ones body about 8 days BECUSE OF THE HALF LIFE.

 

HEATH, NOT SO BENZO BRAINED TODAY?

[[Ca...]]

We Knew you had it Heath..!! -Trust yourself..

-And maybe not That much in your system, at any one time...

 

Depends on "whose" half life figures one uses, and some other things...

Very variable... 40hrs seems more realistic than the "Up to 200 hrs" (though I guessed mine at about 70hrs)??

-I think a picture of a TURTLE says it all much better...!!

 

 

Thanks Valley...!

(That also helped me on another matter)..

Hope you are Well..??

 

And Yes Slowly, -Tis my sleep time..

 

Night All...