The Long Hold Support Group

[[be...]]

Just wanted to add that TWENTY years ago when I was on Ativan I was getting BAD headaches to the point I was sure I had MS. My (now) husband figured out it was the Ativan--they came on around 4:00 every day===One day he told me to take a pill and it went away. Rather than get off I switched to Klonopin and never had an issue. Until now with the Valium---And pain is not unlike what I used to experience except now I have the vision stuff too---I guess the random timing and difficulty connecting them to a cut (about 4/5 weeks ago) makes it hard to believe--but I'll go with it.

Thanks again. Just rambling. Nobody else will listen to me!!!  Sorry friends

Ramble on, your voice is just as important as any one of us, and we learn things from each other.

[[ga...]]

I am at the beginning of a hold. .....just three weeks.  I seem to be getting less functional with each day.  The panic , the fatigue, the dizziness ( extreme) ......how do I know if I'm doing the right thing.  I've been to my family doctor every week fir the past 3 weeks and talked to him or a nurse on the phone multiple times.  I feel like I'm losing it.  How do I get through this?? 

The last time I was there ( Thursday) he said to hold but had no clue how long....mentioned something about how I would never get off.  He's been prescribing this to me for decades but doesn't know how to get me off.  I'm afraid to get in the shower today.

 

Healing , a few thoughts:

 

It sounds like your doctor doesn't know enough about benzos to say you will never get off. If he is willing to write the scripts, be glad because then you can be in charge of our own taper and take all the time you need.

 

This may seem weird, but I have heard many people in w/d say they are afraid to get in the shower. I've worked with elderly people who are still able-bodied but also afraid of showers. I don't know why, but it seems to be a common fear. Skipping a shower is not likely to harm you, IMHO.

 

I'm sorry your symptoms seem to be getting worse. Have you tried keeping a journal? It might be helpful as you try to sort this out. Just a few words of how the day went and if anything particularly stressful happened, because stress will ramp up symptoms.

 

I used to call my doctor and nurse again and again and found it was only adding to my stress. They didn't have answers. I was better off accepting that w/d was painful and then distracting myself rather than trying and trying to find a sure-thing answer and a way to get rid of my symptoms.

 

Three weeks isn't very long and could to be too soon to expect any kind of results from a hold. In fact, you could still be experiencing symptoms from previous cuts. That's just my gut feeling. I'll let others chime in.

 

Hang on. Time will be what answers your questions and heals you.

 

Gard

[[He...]]

I know you all have given me the information and it is my decision.......and I am grateful for all of your help.  I do not want to bite the hand that feeds me and push you away....I'm sorry.  I guess I just don't know where else to turn.

[[ga...]]

I know you all have given me the information and it is my decision.......and I am grateful for all of your help.  I do not want to bite the hand that feeds me and push you away....I'm sorry.  I guess I just don't know where else to turn.

 

You're not pushing us away, Healing. This is exactly where to turn. Many of us here can relate to your experiences and can offer encouragement. When you are in w/d, you need lots of encouragement from people who understand. This is peer-support and that's what we're here for. Hang on. We will get through this together.

[[He...]]

Thank you Gard

I am guilty as charged of needing lots and lots of reassurance..... especially when the anxiety is so high and relentless.....and the days are so long.....and my family and friends are stretched beyond their ability to cope with me.  I should just snap out if it. 

[[ga...]]

Thank you Gard

I am guilty as charged of needing lots and lots of reassurance..... especially when the anxiety is so high and relentless.....and the days are so long.....and my family and friends are stretched beyond their ability to cope with me.  I should just snap out if it.

 

You are experiencing what we all are or have experienced. Family and friends get stretched. Some are not able to cope. We go through periods of needing constant reassurance, but they don't understand because they've never experienced anything like it. W/D is an experience you have to experience to understand. That's why we understand and your doctor and family can't. Just know this is normal. You're not going to snap out of it, so don't scold yourself about that. I know that feeling well. I battled with my symptoms and with myself. I found no relief until I accepted my symptoms. And it was not the kind of relief one would expect. It was just an ability to let the symptoms be there.

 

I heard it explained this way:

 

Primary suffering is the direct experience of painful w/d symptoms that cannot be avoided. Only time will heal our nervous systems.

 

Secondary suffering is what happens when we battle against our pain. It is perfectly natural for our brains to battle against pain and seek to escape it. Our brains our programmed to do that. But in this case, when there is nothing we can actually do but wait, the battle adds to our suffering. The more we focus on the pain, the more our brains alert and alarm, and the more our symptoms are ramped up.

 

The two tools that most people seem to find useful to alleviate secondary suffering are acceptance (stop battling it, just let it be there) and distraction (turning your brain to something else). I believe there's a sticky on this at the top of the withdrawal support board. It's hard. It takes practice. Eventually it becomes easier.

 

That said, we are human and need human contact and encouragement. Isolation causes stress for anybody in any situation. So don't isolate. Come here and ask for encouragement as much as you need to. We're all in this together.

 

Gard 

[[He...]]

I am at the beginning of a hold. .....just three weeks.  I seem to be getting less functional with each day.  The panic , the fatigue, the dizziness ( extreme) ......how do I know if I'm doing the right thing.  I've been to my family doctor every week fir the past 3 weeks and talked to him or a nurse on the phone multiple times.  I feel like I'm losing it.  How do I get through this?? 

The last time I was there ( Thursday) he said to hold but had no clue how long....mentioned something about how I would never get off.  He's been prescribing this to me for decades but doesn't know how to get me off.  I'm afraid to get in the shower today.

 

Healing , a few thoughts:

 

It sounds like your doctor doesn't know enough about benzos to say you will never get off. If he is willing to write the scripts, be glad because then you can be in charge of our own taper and take all the time you need.

 

This may seem weird, but I have heard many people in w/d say they are afraid to get in the shower. I've worked with elderly people who are still able-bodied but also afraid of showers. I don't know why, but it seems to be a common fear. Skipping a shower is not likely to harm you, IMHO.

 

I'm sorry your symptoms seem to be getting worse. Have you tried keeping a journal? It might be helpful as you try to sort this out. Just a few words of how the day went and if anything particularly stressful happened, because stress will ramp up symptoms.

 

I used to call my doctor and nurse again and again and found it was only adding to my stress. They didn't have answers. I was better off accepting that w/d was painful and then distracting myself rather than trying and trying to find a sure-thing answer and a way to get rid of my symptoms.

 

Three weeks isn't very long and could to be too soon to expect any kind of results from a hold. In fact, you could still be experiencing symptoms from previous cuts. That's just my gut feeling. I'll let others chime in.

 

Hang on. Time will be what answers your questions and heals you.

 

Gard

 

 

Hi Healing Seeker,

 

Oh my gosh! I can't believe you wrote you were afraid to get in the shower! I have never heard anyone say that before, and I thought I was nuts! I HAVE BEEN AFRAID TO GET IN THE SHOWER FROM THE VERY FIRST TIME I WAS IN TOLERANCE,BEFORE I EVEN STARTED MY TAPER. and I know it was the  VALIUM. it got worse as I tapered. I  Never mentioned it here because I was embarrassed. If you looked at me you would know what a horrible sight I was. Now that I am into 1 1/2 years of my taper I do get in the shower but still not as often as I should. And it is a sigh of relief when I get out. I'm not exactly sure what I am afraid of? That I will fall and hurt myself? That I am just not feeling so good and lord knows what new symptom may arise while I'm in the shower, and what might happen to me?

And I also got that feeling when I (finally) got  into the car and to drive. I am still not very comfortable in the shower or driving, but I know deep in my heart, and my benzo brain, that it IS JUST THE BENZO DEVILTHAT HAS GOT A HOLD OF ME.

I am doingok. Taking showers and driving now. And I tell myself...see? I'm ok!

 

IMO I wouldn't worry about this. It's normal benzo fear! But I would try to do my best to take that shower when I could, even if it's not as often as I could. Just don't give up on your shower. Keep trying and it will happen.

 

And about the hold. I too, and I believe the majority of us holders can vouch for the fact that even during a hold, wdsx will often get worse before they begin to subside.  My hold was a result of many months going too fast with no really bad wdsx. BUT THEN ALL THOSE CUTS CAUGHT UP WITH ME AND I WAS IN MISERY. I HELD FOR FOUR MONTHS, WHICH IS NOT REALLY that long compared to the holds other buddies have had to do. And, oh yes, I still had crazy wdsx throughout that hold. It went from one wdsx to another.constantly changing. But soon they were less intense as the time went on. Then one day my most difficult wdsx....inner body trembles 24/7... just went away....for good. After four months I had practically no wdsx. Then I knew it was ok to start some all cuts again. I was finally stable enough.

 

So please try not to be frightened. I know this whole process is a very big fright! But IMO, although it is very difficult, hurting, and scary, IT REAlly is normal in this tapering process when you go too fast.

IMO, ONCE YOU HAVE HELD LONG ENOUGH YOU WILL FEEL MUCH BETTER, and then when you feel stable,YOU WILL GO MUCH SMaller and much slower with your cuts, and you will be able to proceed with very little suffering if any at all.

Try not to be scared, accept that it is what it is, try to distract, be brave . You can do this!

 

And as Begood and Gard have said, ramble on. That's what we are here for. We will never give up on you and we will be here for you, just like we are here for each other.

 

Heath   ((((HUGS))))

 

[[He...]]

The shower thing is because of dizziness, boatyness and getting over a bout of vertigo recently.

 

The thing is everyone seems so cheerful and together on this site.  People talked about how scary the withdrawal board was.....when I post on the withdrawal board I don't get answers to my questions....I came here and it felt like home.  I guess I'm afraid to have the welcome mat taken away with my misery......because right now I'm neither cheerful or together.  Just afraid of doing the wrong thing.

 

Mostly because I'm not use to the long hold theory....and I understand the idea behind it.

BUT if I wasn't getting the therapeutic dose on 4.5 mg of Ativan before my taper ( tolerance) and now I'm at 3 mg of Ativan.....how will my body feel better holding....I wrestle with this....my therapist tells me that my anxiety increases when I'm at a cross roads .  I guess I just need more reassurance

Thank you all .....you are very very kind to me.  Just mixed up

[[Ca...]]

I am at the beginning of a hold. .....just three weeks.  I seem to be getting less functional with each day.  The panic , the fatigue, the dizziness ( extreme) ......how do I know if I'm doing the right thing.  I've been to my family doctor every week fir the past 3 weeks and talked to him or a nurse on the phone multiple times.  I feel like I'm losing it.  How do I get through this?? 

The last time I was there ( Thursday) he said to hold but had no clue how long....mentioned something about how I would never get off.  He's been prescribing this to me for decades but doesn't know how to get me off.  I'm afraid to get in the shower today.

This might be a bit clunky... sorry...

 

Gard said it perfect... put what your Dr said in a diary... He just handed you permission to look after your own taper... U might find it best to filter the info you give him for a while... without harming your care of course... -up to you...

 

Also the lag time following a particular cut can be ages... most dont notice as they continue to cut...

But I was still getting new SX after 2 months... -then I dose corrected and seem to have got it right...

Dont be scared by this... -mine was a 50% cut following a long hold... -so everything was related to that one cut...

 

The effects from your earlier cuts will be fading about now(ish) -and your most recent cuts wont be far behind...

Also, I find that things get worse right before they get better... for me, notably worse, it can be deceptive and looking back, has tricked me into updosing a few times...

 

My advice would be to hold on and distract... Keep posting how your days are going, and keep a diary...

I havnt suggested updosing yet, as I still think holding the better option... But thats my opinion, and the choice is yours...

If things are beyond what you are prepared to handle, its an option... This doesnt have to be hell, but we are all different and there are risks or downsides to some things...

The brain likes stability, and we are trying to match medication levels with healing speed...

 

Sing out if I missed anything, or u want further info...

 

***

Showers...

There was a thread on it a while ago... -a very popular thread, especially by view numbers...

Try a shower chair, and getting everything ready first...

It gets better...

-I cheat with my spa on occasion..

 

 

[[ga...]]

Oh, Healing, I forgot. Did you know there is a place to keep a diary right on here? They are called Progress Logs. When you start one, only you can post on it. It's your own journal.

 

Progress Logs

[[Se...]]

Thank you Gard

I am guilty as charged of needing lots and lots of reassurance..... especially when the anxiety is so high and relentless.....and the days are so long.....and my family and friends are stretched beyond their ability to cope with me.  I should just snap out if it.

 

You are experiencing what we all are or have experienced. Family and friends get stretched. Some are not able to cope. We go through periods of needing constant reassurance, but they don't understand because they've never experienced anything like it. W/D is an experience you have to experience to understand. That's why we understand and your doctor and family can't. Just know this is normal. You're not going to snap out of it, so don't scold yourself about that. I know that feeling well. I battled with my symptoms and with myself. I found no relief until I accepted my symptoms. And it was not the kind of relief one would expect. It was just an ability to let the symptoms be there.

 

I heard it explained this way:

 

Primary suffering is the direct experience of painful w/d symptoms that cannot be avoided. Only time will heal our nervous systems.

 

Secondary suffering is what happens when we battle against our pain. It is perfectly natural for our brains to battle against pain and seek to escape it. Our brains our programmed to do that. But in this case, when there is nothing we can actually do but wait, the battle adds to our suffering. The more we focus on the pain, the more our brains alert and alarm, and the more our symptoms are ramped up.

 

The two tools that most people seem to find useful to alleviate secondary suffering are acceptance (stop battling it, just let it be there) and distraction (turning your brain to something else). I believe there's a sticky on this at the top of the withdrawal support board. It's hard. It takes practice. Eventually it becomes easier.

 

That said, we are human and need human contact and encouragement. Isolation causes stress for anybody in any situation. So don't isolate. Come here and ask for encouragement as much as you need to. We're all in this together.

 

Gard 

 

 

Gard's post here is gold. Especially the "Secondary suffering" part. This post should be a sticky.  Seriously.

 

Well done Gard!

[[He...]]

I told you I found a home here.....thank you for your understanding

 

I can't stop the panic.....no matter what

[[Se...]]

The shower thing is because of dizziness, boatyness and getting over a bout of vertigo recently.

 

The thing is everyone seems so cheerful and together on this site.  People talked about how scary the withdrawal board was.....when I post on the withdrawal board I don't get answers to my questions....I came here and it felt like home.  I guess I'm afraid to have the welcome mat taken away with my misery......because right now I'm neither cheerful or together.  Just afraid of doing the wrong thing.

 

Mostly because I'm not use to the long hold theory....and I understand the idea behind it.

BUT if I wasn't getting the therapeutic dose on 4.5 mg of Ativan before my taper ( tolerance) and now I'm at 3 mg of Ativan.....how will my body feel better holding....I wrestle with this....my therapist tells me that my anxiety increases when I'm at a cross roads .  I guess I just need more reassurance

Thank you all .....you are very very kind to me.  Just mixed up

 

I really believe that if you do an extended hold, you will slowly notice yourself getting better. As you get better, you will gain confidence. With confidence, you will find yourself able to accept the pain because you will at some point realize that in the end, you will completely normalize. It is just matter of time. And yes, it does seem like a long time, especially when you are getting blasted with sxs all the time.

 

Hang in there!

[[Ca...]]

Does anyone know what page numbers we were all talking about tolerance and WD, a few weeks or so ago..??

I cant find...

 

Healing, simply put, and in my opinion...

 

The body and SX change as we move away from tolerance (and its horrid SX), into plain WD, -which is a more steady state of lessening medication...

 

For me (opiates, and more than a few), once I got to about 80% of full dose it was plain WD, constant, but without the sharp horrid sudden SX...

 

I hit problems at about 25% -I should have held... I didnt... The rest is a sad story (detox)

 

Let your healing catch up, you will be fine...

 

[[be...]]

Healing try this, excercise below.Try this during bad times. Save it as a message to self and you can always go to your personal messages and it will be there. Click on it.

 

   

Breathe 💖 

[[Ca...]]

Healing try this, excercise below.Try this during bad times. Save it as a message to self and you can always go to your personal messages and it will be there. Click on it.

 

   

Breathe 💖 

Oh Darn...!!!

 

I clicked on it and a fat CAT laughed at me and said...

"You need to buy Anti-Virus from MC INC..."

 

Then a kitten with a gun said "now..!!"

 

Never safe...

[[be...]]

Healing try this, excercise below.Try this during bad times. Save it as a message to self and you can always go to your personal messages and it will be there. Click on it.

 

   

Breathe 💖 

Oh Darn...!!!

 

I clicked on it and a fat CAT laughed at me and said...

"You need to buy Anti-Virus from MC INC..."

 

Then a kitten with a gun said "now..!!"

 

Never safe...

Funny ha ha..had me there for a minute... 

[[Ca...]]

Hey, has anyone heard from Nova...??

 

Nova, -if quietly reading... Best wishes, Get Well...

and the opposite for HIM upstairs...

 

Stay strong...

[[ga...]]

Thank you Gard

I am guilty as charged of needing lots and lots of reassurance..... especially when the anxiety is so high and relentless.....and the days are so long.....and my family and friends are stretched beyond their ability to cope with me.  I should just snap out if it.

 

You are experiencing what we all are or have experienced. Family and friends get stretched. Some are not able to cope. We go through periods of needing constant reassurance, but they don't understand because they've never experienced anything like it. W/D is an experience you have to experience to understand. That's why we understand and your doctor and family can't. Just know this is normal. You're not going to snap out of it, so don't scold yourself about that. I know that feeling well. I battled with my symptoms and with myself. I found no relief until I accepted my symptoms. And it was not the kind of relief one would expect. It was just an ability to let the symptoms be there.

 

I heard it explained this way:

 

Primary suffering is the direct experience of painful w/d symptoms that cannot be avoided. Only time will heal our nervous systems.

 

Secondary suffering is what happens when we battle against our pain. It is perfectly natural for our brains to battle against pain and seek to escape it. Our brains our programmed to do that. But in this case, when there is nothing we can actually do but wait, the battle adds to our suffering. The more we focus on the pain, the more our brains alert and alarm, and the more our symptoms are ramped up.

 

The two tools that most people seem to find useful to alleviate secondary suffering are acceptance (stop battling it, just let it be there) and distraction (turning your brain to something else). I believe there's a sticky on this at the top of the withdrawal support board. It's hard. It takes practice. Eventually it becomes easier.

 

That said, we are human and need human contact and encouragement. Isolation causes stress for anybody in any situation. So don't isolate. Come here and ask for encouragement as much as you need to. We're all in this together.

 

Gard 

 

 

Gard's post here is gold. Especially the "Secondary suffering" part. This post should be a sticky.  Seriously.

 

Well done Gard!

 

Thanks, S. I learned the concept of primary and secondary suffering from a book called You Are Not Your Pain. This concept, once I accepted it, has helped me more than anything else. 

[[ga...]]

Healing try this, excercise below.Try this during bad times. Save it as a message to self and you can always go to your personal messages and it will be there. Click on it.

 

   

Breathe 💖 

Oh Darn...!!!

 

I clicked on it and a fat CAT laughed at me and said...

"You need to buy Anti-Virus from MC INC..."

 

Then a kitten with a gun said "now..!!"

 

Never safe...

Funny ha ha..had me there for a minute... 

 

Me, too! When will I learn?

[[He...]]

Gard

Was this a book about physical pain or about benzo withdrawal?

[[He...]]

And by the way. How are you today?

[[ga...]]

Gard

Was this a book about physical pain or about benzo withdrawal?

 

Physical pain, actually, but the authors also refer to emotional pain during it. I bought it for physical pain, but found it very helpful for w/d because it taught mindfulness techniques that helped teach acceptance and settle the mind but in very small chunks. The authors knew they were talking to tired, stressed out people, so tried not to overwhelm.

 

I've seen it called Mindfulness for Health, too. That might be the UK title.

 

If you go to amazon, you can hear a snippet of it. It comes as an audiobook or a paperback with CDs of very short guided meditations that build on one another. You're supposed to do one chapter each week, but I did one each month and it still worked. (Ya know, the sloth thing. )

[[ga...]]

And by the way. How are you today?

 

I'm OK, thanks. A bit tired and on edge from some "normal life stress" that gets magnified by w/d. Not so bad that I feel the urge to battle it. Just letting it be there.

[[bl...]]

Thanks Begood!