The Long Hold Support Group

[[...]]

Miyu- I am on Librium too. Never tried Valium so can't compare. I was crossed to L from klonopin. Crossed to 20 mg of L which was an updose for me and felt better pretty quickly!  After 16 days, I dropped to 15 mg bc I didn't want to stay at 20 too long. I felt it but it was tolerable and I'm glad I made that big cut. I knew I could not continue with big cuts like that.

 

When I take L, I do not feel it hitting me. I never felt 0.25 mg if klonopin hitting me either. Honestly, 120 mg of magnesium hit me way stronger!!  My doc at the time chose L over V bc he said its gentler- what I think he meant was that it doesn't hit so quickly like V- so there is less abuse of L. He said the peak comes 2-3 hrs after you take it. I dose once at 9 pm and always have.

 

L and V have the same active metabolites. Their half life is the same. V is a prodrug whereas L is not- it's in usable form. That means the body has to do some enzymatic reaction to make V usable whereas this is not necessary with L. This is how I understand it at least. I never debated which to go on- I just did what my doc at the time recommended and it worked w/ a sudden cross from K but like I said, it was an updose.

 

I don't find L to be annoying- in fact I find it easy to taper any amount bc you don't have to crush, cut, shave, dissolve pills. L comes as a fine powder in a capsule. I dump out the powder and measure with a scale. It is pretty quick and accurate. My scale goes to 0.0001 g. Rx grade liquid Valium would certainly be easier but what I do is just as easy as people who make a home brew liquid. I've never tried making a liquid so I can't comment on how to do that. I didn't want to introduce any new variables if I don't have to. I know some buddies have had a compounding pharmacy make a liquid L suspension for them. The shelf life is 2 wks. So it's more accurate than a home brew but more expensive too.

 

As far as being easier or harder to taper off, I expect it is more or less the same as V- they are all tough and all more or less the same. I hope this helps.

[[...]]

Heath and Miyu- just something to consider. Magnesium is a GABA agonist and may be the source of some of your difficulties. It was for me and many other buddies. I tapered off mag last year. I know ppl are very defensive about mag here and I'm not going to debate this but just throwing it out there. There are good threads on this.

[[sl...]]

Found it, Miyu, and brought it here cuz I don't hang out there. (Denying my age to the very end!)

 

 

hi Gard 

I had a read on the over 50s but I found it so depressing, which is the last thing I need at the moment  ..and I'm way over 50.

It's like reading the other parts of the forum, so much conflicting information made me dizzy and I have enough vertigo as it is.

I know things are different for different people but I was so confused, which was how I came to find this group.

 

I just wanted to ask a question [so what's new, I do it all the time ]

Answers from anyone would be helpful

I think that I won't have too much trouble cutting from 5 to 3.125, even easier to cut from 5 to 3.75,  but I'm thinking instead of doing the liquid daily microtaper which Valley worked out for me using vodka/water.

I could then reduce from 5 to 4 over a month [or longer if necessary]  and then down to 3.75 using tablets again.

My question is ...do people notice any difference in the way they feel or  a difference in w/ds  when they take it as liquid as opposed to tablets?

 

I don't want to be wondering if it's w/ds or changing to liquid...I'm confused enough as it is

The only problem I forsee with liquid is that I could only do that at home so if I were to go to London which i do about once a month or so, sometimes at short notice if my daughters suddenly say "would you like to see whatever at the theatre" for example,  I would then be in a mess carrying vodka and mixing my doses away from home and taking my dose in a theatre or restaurant if it was vodka/water.

Whereas it's easy to pack tablets ready cut into doses.

 

On the other hand I really like the idea of a micro cut each day which is easy with liquid.

Do most of you do liquid titration or do some of you cut tablets?

If I did the cut to 4mgs over a month or 6 weeks with liquid and then switch back to tablets from 3.75 does that sound ok?

 

You can tell I'm over 50 can't you  :laugh:  indecisive, incoherent and very confused.

I know you can only give your own personal experience and I will have to make the decision myself but your experience would help.

I will hold for as long as I think it's necessary whichever method I use.

At least there is consistent opinion in this group, even from Cookie

Oh Lord just reading this in preview and it sounds totally mad.

Hi Slowly.  I found liquid to be an easy switch.  I did do a really small updose when i switched just to be safe.  You should be able to adjust switching to liquid. I would personally just hold for a couple of weeks after switching. I think anxiety of expectations regarding the switch cause some of the problems if that makes sense. 

 

As far as having to hall all the materials to make the solution, you don't necessarily have to take your full dose as liquid.  You can take part liquid and part dry which is how I do it. That way you can mix up enough solution for 2-3 weeks and just take the jar of liquid with you.

 

Switching back from liquid to dry shouldn't be an issue either. I have switched back and forth a couple of times. 

 

I hope this makes sense.  My brain truly is mush lol.  --V

 

Thanks Valley you have answered my questions and it does make sense.

Yes good idea taking part of the dose as tablet and the rest liquid.

That would be easier for me.

You are right, the anxiety about switching to liquid and back being part of the problem, it's just not knowing what to expect.

I will be cautious and hold for a while when starting the liquid.

Thank you for the advice - it truly helps 

[[Ca...]]

Found it, Miyu, and brought it here cuz I don't hang out there. (Denying my age to the very end!)

 

 

hi Gard 

I had a read on the over 50s but I found it so depressing, which is the last thing I need at the moment  ..and I'm way over 50.

It's like reading the other parts of the forum, so much conflicting information made me dizzy and I have enough vertigo as it is.

I know things are different for different people but I was so confused, which was how I came to find this group.

 

I just wanted to ask a question [so what's new, I do it all the time ]

Answers from anyone would be helpful

I think that I won't have too much trouble cutting from 5 to 3.125, even easier to cut from 5 to 3.75,  but I'm thinking instead of doing the liquid daily microtaper which Valley worked out for me using vodka/water.

I could then reduce from 5 to 4 over a month [or longer if necessary]  and then down to 3.75 using tablets again.

My question is ...do people notice any difference in the way they feel or  a difference in w/ds  when they take it as liquid as opposed to tablets?

 

I don't want to be wondering if it's w/ds or changing to liquid...I'm confused enough as it is

The only problem I forsee with liquid is that I could only do that at home so if I were to go to London which i do about once a month or so, sometimes at short notice if my daughters suddenly say "would you like to see whatever at the theatre" for example,  I would then be in a mess carrying vodka and mixing my doses away from home and taking my dose in a theatre or restaurant if it was vodka/water.

Whereas it's easy to pack tablets ready cut into doses.

 

On the other hand I really like the idea of a micro cut each day which is easy with liquid.

Do most of you do liquid titration or do some of you cut tablets?

If I did the cut to 4mgs over a month or 6 weeks with liquid and then switch back to tablets from 3.75 does that sound ok?

 

You can tell I'm over 50 can't you  :laugh:  indecisive, incoherent and very confused.

I know you can only give your own personal experience and I will have to make the decision myself but your experience would help.

I will hold for as long as I think it's necessary whichever method I use.

At least there is consistent opinion in this group, even from Cookie

Oh Lord just reading this in preview and it sounds totally mad.

Hi Slowly.  I found liquid to be an easy switch.  I did do a really small updose when i switched just to be safe.  You should be able to adjust switching to liquid. I would personally just hold for a couple of weeks after switching. I think anxiety of expectations regarding the switch cause some of the problems if that makes sense. 

 

As far as having to hall all the materials to make the solution, you don't necessarily have to take your full dose as liquid.  You can take part liquid and part dry which is how I do it. That way you can mix up enough solution for 2-3 weeks and just take the jar of liquid with you.

 

Switching back from liquid to dry shouldn't be an issue either. I have switched back and forth a couple of times. 

 

I hope this makes sense.  My brain truly is mush lol.  --V

 

Thanks Valley you have answered my questions and it does make sense.

Yes good idea taking part of the dose as tablet and the rest liquid.

That would be easier for me.

You are right, the anxiety about switching to liquid and back being part of the problem, it's just not knowing what to expect.

I will be cautious and hold for a while when starting the liquid.

Thank you for the advice - it truly helps 

yes, trying to taper below 5v with tablets starts to get tricky... Having a good supply of 2v tablets helps for a while...  but if one cant handle 0.25 cuts, then its a problem...

 

I tried a full cross over to liquid, but had problems at that time... But there is much success doing a partial C/O from a stable position...(as per Valley).. -I really think it is the better way for low dose success... -oh the options..!!! Lol

 

Now I just need to practice what I preach...   -all in good time...

 

Ps.. Mad fits... -most still talk to me..

-and we are all 21 yrs old on here... -it makes the maturity debate easier...

 

 

 

 

[[sl...]]

That's great Cant.

Good being 21!!

 

I think I will be ok doing a liquid taper to 4mgs  and I hope then to 3mgs and I can cut tablets into 4 pieces ok so should manage the 2.5 if I get that far.

 

Unfortunately i can't get more tablets and I don't really have many 5mgs or 2mgs so am keeping them until I really get to tiny doses [if ever ]  but i do have alot of 10mgs so cutting to 2.5 should be ok then I can use the smaller dose tablets.

It's the 4mg and 3mg which i was unable to do.

I can use the liquid when I'm at home I was just worried about whether I'd have a problem with it symptomwise.

[is symptomwise a word?  ]

I'm feeling stable at the moment - a bit of vertigo but i got  that when I was  a bit anxious even pre-benzo so I'm hoping that by early September I might be feeling really ready to start liquid taper.

 

[[Ca...]]

That's great Cant.

Good being 21!!

 

I think I will be ok doing a liquid taper to 4mgs  and I hope then to 3mgs and I can cut tablets into 4 pieces ok so should manage the 2.5 if I get that far.

 

Unfortunately i can't get more tablets and I don't really have many 5mgs or 2mgs so am keeping them until I really get to tiny doses [if ever ]  but i do have alot of 10mgs so cutting to 2.5 should be ok then I can use the smaller dose tablets.

It's the 4mg and 3mg which i was unable to do.

I can use the liquid when I'm at home I was just worried about whether I'd have a problem with it symptomwise.

[is symptomwise a word?  ]

I'm feeling stable at the moment - a bit of vertigo but i got  that when I was  a bit anxious even pre-benzo so I'm hoping that by early September I might be feeling really ready to start liquid taper.

Maybe your Dr might "swap" some tablets for smaller ones... -your call on that one..

 

[[ga...]]

That's great Cant.

Good being 21!!

 

I think I will be ok doing a liquid taper to 4mgs  and I hope then to 3mgs and I can cut tablets into 4 pieces ok so should manage the 2.5 if I get that far.

 

Unfortunately i can't get more tablets and I don't really have many 5mgs or 2mgs so am keeping them until I really get to tiny doses [if ever ]  but i do have alot of 10mgs so cutting to 2.5 should be ok then I can use the smaller dose tablets.

It's the 4mg and 3mg which i was unable to do.

I can use the liquid when I'm at home I was just worried about whether I'd have a problem with it symptomwise.

[is symptomwise a word?  ]

I'm feeling stable at the moment - a bit of vertigo but i got  that when I was  a bit anxious even pre-benzo so I'm hoping that by early September I might be feeling really ready to start liquid taper.

 

Slowly, most people have little or no trouble changing to liquid. I changed X from tablets to liquid with no trouble. When I started dissolving L again, I just waited a week to be cautious and then started tapering. No problem. I carry my liquid around in small bottles wherever I go. I'd be a bit concerned about switching back and forth between liquid and tablets because your measurements are going to be slightly different when you use a different method to cut. Consistency is important when tapering.

 

Gard 

[[Se...]]

Heath and Miyu- just something to consider. Magnesium is a GABA agonist and may be the source of some of your difficulties. It was for me and many other buddies. I tapered off mag last year. I know ppl are very defensive about mag here and I'm not going to debate this but just throwing it out there. There are good threads on this.

 

 

That is interesting. This is the first I have heard that Magnesium is a GABA agonist.  I do take some. Guess I'll have to look into that closer.

[[...]]

Heath and Miyu- just something to consider. Magnesium is a GABA agonist and may be the source of some of your difficulties. It was for me and many other buddies. I tapered off mag last year. I know ppl are very defensive about mag here and I'm not going to debate this but just throwing it out there. There are good threads on this.

 

 

That is interesting. This is the first I have heard that Magnesium is a GABA agonist.  I do take some. Guess I'll have to look into that closer.

My pdoc told me that in some countries where they don't have benzos, they use magnesium instead bc it has the same effect. Anyone interested can look up my posts from 2016 and you'll find the main thread w/ lots of good info on magnesium. It gave me the same acute w/d sxs as benzos do. In fact mag and benzos have been reported in the scientific literature to be synergistic. The article is in WorriedDad siggy. I'm glad to be off mag and will not take it again. I get enough from food. Mag from food is not the same as concentrated mag from a pill. Definitely not the same!

[[ga...]]

Interesting. I take magnesium and it doesn't bother me. I never take mega-doses, though. Same with my vitamins. I take low doses just as insurance for when I'm not eating well. Such as today.

[[...]]

Interesting. I take magnesium and it doesn't bother me. I never take mega-doses, though. Same with my vitamins. I take low doses just as insurance for when I'm not eating well. Such as today.

I never took megadoses. 120 mg of magnesium twice a day for 2-3 wks. Cold turkey sent me into acute before I knew what acute was - before I ever took benzos.

I had w/d from a few sprays of mag oil.

I felt a short rebound from homeopathic mag phos.

I ended up reinstating 120 mg mag glycinate and tapering that slowly and it wasnt easy but I slid off at the end. Ok I'm done talking abt mag- was just throwing it out there for anyone who doesn't know the potential w/d effects. I never felt bad when I took it, but I got w/d from it!

[[...]]

Found it, Miyu, and brought it here cuz I don't hang out there. (Denying my age to the very end!)

Hi Gard how are you feeling? I hope things are improving for you.....

I wanted to ask you about Librium.... I am thinking of asking my doc about crossing over to it. I. Having such a rough time with the Valium , I don't know why . It makes me feel so awful when I take it now. Especially if I don't have enough food in my stomach , like this morning , and it literally shocks my system it goes in so fast I get short of breath , anxious, rapid heart beat ... Not nice. Things settle down after a while , but then it's time for another dose! Evening dose seems easier , but it still makes my head feel like it's full of concrete.

 

I was wondering what you experience of Librium is like , when you take it , how long it takes to come on , how many times a day you dose? Given that I am having to take Valium 3 X day , I could just as well be on a short acting benzo !

I don't mind the multiple dosing , I don't work so , my life kinda revolves around it!

I would like some releif from the reaction to the benzo tho . Dealing with the WDs is bad enough.

 

Anyway , if you have time , maybe you could write me a little about your experience with Librium . I wonder if it would be a hard crossover .......

I think the equivalent of v to L would be about 5 mgs L to 2 mgs V . So I'd be starting on about 20 mgs Librium .

 

I read that L is soluble in water ..... Do you do equal dosing and reduction from your total daily dose?

Trying to avoid WDs from rapid metabolizing ...like I got when I did V in vodka/ water . I now use nut milk .... I can do a bit of research myself on that.

 

One more question , does the effect of L hit you hard when you take a dose , or dose it come on slowly with your vodka/ water solution?

 

Thanks Gard so much .....

 

 

Thanks, Miyu. I'm holding to try to overcome a rocky patch. Regarding Librium, from what I understand, Librium is much like Valium but more annoying. It was the first benzo. Valium was created as an improvement. Librium is probably not stable as a liquid (from one study I read), so I must mix up my doses every night for the following day. It only comes as capsules in the USA, so I must open the tiny capsules and pour the powder out into the jars. Sometimes I spill all over the place and have to start over. Librium and Valium both break down into almost the exact same active metabolites. I do believe Librium is metabolized a bit more slowly than Valium, but I have read different things about whether the difference is really that great, so no conclusion there. Personally, I don't notice it hit me but then I didn't notice Xanax hit me either. There are different reports on how much water it takes to dissolve Librium. Some suggest gallons to dissolve a capsule. I go with alcohol. I dissolve 5mg of L in 3ml of 80 proof vodka. Then I add 97ml of water and shake. I always shake before I pull and pitch just to be safe. I dose 3 times/day, but most people dose 2x/day. I happen to take other meds that dose 3x so it was just easier to take the L at the same time. The main reasons I chose L was because I am a fast metabolizer of V and because I had been given a dose of Librium once in the past and nothing terrible had happened. But since V and L quickly break down into nearly the same active metabolites, it probably doesn't make a difference. I don't know about the equivalencies since I've never been on V. I crossed from X to L. I think  it's .5mg X = 25mg L, but don't quote me! It was a long time ago. Just a possible help, fat slows the emptying of the stomach, so taking drugs with fatty food might help slow down the hit. Sorry I don't have better news about L.

Gard

 

Thank you Gard , that was helpful!

I've done a fair amount of research.  And the reason I think Librium might be better for me is , it actually doesn't use the CYP2C19 liver enzyme that Valium dose, only the 3A4...... I have a variant of the 2C 19 and that's why I metabolize Valium so fast .... Whereas I have normal enzyme activity fro the 3A4 that Librium uses.

Valium uses a very complicated metabolic pathway, Librium too to some degree , but not as complicated as Valium.

Ativan is actually the simplest ..... Too bad it's so short acting .

 

I'm going to ask my doc about it when I speak to him , he has some , limited knowledge about the CYP enzyme system .

I realize Librium could be a lot of trouble to taper relative to measuring , but , it might be worth it for me. The metabolites half life are similar to Valium , it does actually have slightly different metabolite balance from what I read......

 

If I do switch I no doubt will be pestering you with more taper questions .! 

 

Libr...... I think I may stay away from the mg for now then..... I'm pretty sensitive to things now , I've been using the mag oil on and off , could be an issue . Hard to know.

I just saw you posted about Librium too , will read that now, thanks! 

I think mag is also supposed to help black glutamate which is why some people find it useful..... Still messing around with that whole system tho.......

 

Slowly ..... Just FYI , I had an awful reaction to Valium in vodka/ water when I dissolved a whole 2 mgs of my dose that way .... I got WDs in two days from it pretty bad. I switched to nut milk and that was much better. Previously I had only don't 1/4 mg in vodka / water , and that seemed ok.

valium works in milk or nut milk, anything with fat. It may he been fro me that it made me metabolize even faster with the vodka water combination with the Valium . Milk is more like taking it with food.

 

Hope everyone's doing ok or hanging in there at least

Love, MiYu 

[[...]]

Miyu- I am on Librium too. Never tried Valium so can't compare. I was crossed to L from klonopin. Crossed to 20 mg of L which was an updose for me and felt better pretty quickly!  After 16 days, I dropped to 15 mg bc I didn't want to stay at 20 too long. I felt it but it was tolerable and I'm glad I made that big cut. I knew I could not continue with big cuts like that.

 

When I take L, I do not feel it hitting me. I never felt 0.25 mg if klonopin hitting me either. Honestly, 120 mg of magnesium hit me way stronger!!  My doc at the time chose L over V bc he said its gentler- what I think he meant was that it doesn't hit so quickly like V- so there is less abuse of L. He said the peak comes 2-3 hrs after you take it. I dose once at 9 pm and always have.

 

L and V have the same active metabolites. Their half life is the same. V is a prodrug whereas L is not- it's in usable form. That means the body has to do some enzymatic reaction to make V usable whereas this is not necessary with L. This is how I understand it at least. I never debated which to go on- I just did what my doc at the time recommended and it worked w/ a sudden cross from K but like I said, it was an updose.

 

I don't find L to be annoying- in fact I find it easy to taper any amount bc you don't have to crush, cut, shave, dissolve pills. L comes as a fine powder in a capsule. I dump out the powder and measure with a scale. It is pretty quick and accurate. My scale goes to 0.0001 g. Rx grade liquid Valium would certainly be easier but what I do is just as easy as people who make a home brew liquid. I've never tried making a liquid so I can't comment on how to do that. I didn't want to introduce any new variables if I don't have to. I know some buddies have had a compounding pharmacy make a liquid L suspension for them. The shelf life is 2 wks. So it's more accurate than a home brew but more expensive too.

 

As far as being easier or harder to taper off, I expect it is more or less the same as V- they are all tough and all more or less the same. I hope this helps.

 

Thanks you Libr.... This is helpful too......yes , I do think Librium is easier to metabolize than Valium , which is why I am considering it ,especially with my genetics.

I am having to dose Valium 3 X day , it would be great to just dose 2 or once.

Would you tell me what brand scale you are using? I have a Gemini 20 , but it only measures to .001 gms so not as accurate as yours. Thank you!

Love, MiYu 

Ps , I'm amazed at how sensitive you are to magnesium ...... I know others are sensitive to it too during WD , but that you were in WD from it pre benzos is unbelievable! Makes you wonder about supplements altogether...... I do take a few in small doses like Gard. I think some are helping, but I developed a bad reaction to niacin and inositol, which I never had before .

[[ga...]]

Miyu, if you're a fast metabolizer of V (like me, ultra-fast) it's possible you might like L better. What I meant about the nuisance was V comes as a liquid but you have to create your own L liquid (if you do liquid). I absolutely hate dry cutting of anything. I know it's just a thing with me, but I hate those scales and I don't trust them. I dry cut a med once before. Never again.

 

I mix L every night because of a study I read that was measuring how fast L broke down in something called an osmotic minipump.

 

I found the abstract of the study here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20066402

 

Or you can dry cut. If you don't have dry-cut-phobia like me, it could work out fine.

 

Gard

[[...]]

Miyu, if you're a fast metabolizer of V (like me, ultra-fast) it's possible you might like L better. What I meant about the nuisance was V comes as a liquid but you have to create your own L liquid (if you do liquid). I absolutely hate dry cutting of anything. I know it's just a thing with me, but I hate those scales and I don't trust them. I dry cut a med once before. Never again.

 

I mix L every night because of a study I read that was measuring how fast L broke down in something called an osmotic minipump.

 

I found the abstract of the study here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20066402

 

Or you can dry cut. If you don't have dry-cut-phobia like me, it could work out fine.

 

Gard

I mix my Valium every other night so no biggie really......I just asked about refridgeration on the microtaper group.....might as well ask you here...... It's too warm for me to keep anything out of the fridge ..... Do you think it's ok to refridgerate Librium? Over night that is . Or maybe I wouldn't need to I could just mix up my dose in water each night and take out whatever I was reducing .

Hate the thought of having to do all the math all over after finally figuring out the V , but maybe it wouldn't be so hard....with 5 mg caps . 

MiYu 

[[ga...]]

Miyu, if you're a fast metabolizer of V (like me, ultra-fast) it's possible you might like L better. What I meant about the nuisance was V comes as a liquid but you have to create your own L liquid (if you do liquid). I absolutely hate dry cutting of anything. I know it's just a thing with me, but I hate those scales and I don't trust them. I dry cut a med once before. Never again.

 

I mix L every night because of a study I read that was measuring how fast L broke down in something called an osmotic minipump.

 

I found the abstract of the study here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20066402

 

Or you can dry cut. If you don't have dry-cut-phobia like me, it could work out fine.

 

Gard

I mix my Valium every other night so no biggie really......I just asked about refridgeration on the microtaper group.....might as well ask you here...... It's too warm for me to keep anything out of the fridge ..... Do you think it's ok to refridgerate Librium? Over night that is . Or maybe I wouldn't need to I could just mix up my dose in water each night and take out whatever I was reducing .

Hate the thought of having to do all the math all over after finally figuring out the V , but maybe it wouldn't be so hard....with 5 mg caps . 

MiYu 

 

Check the directions on your medication. They usually say room temperature. I kept my liquefied Xanax a week at room temperature, though that was probably pushing it.

[[Va...]]

Just thought I'd pop in and say hi! I Hope everyone is doing well and figuring out how and what to taper. It's been a looooong week for me lol.  I'm more exhausted every day when i get home.

 

Every time i get called on to show how i got a math answer, I get it wrong even though I got the right answer to the math problem.  I just can't put into words right.

 

One more day to go...

 

Good night all! --V

[[...]]

Just thought I'd pop in and say hi! I Hope everyone is doing well and figuring out how and what to taper. It's been a looooong week for me lol.  I'm more exhausted every day when i get home.

 

Every time i get called on to show how i got a math answer, I get it wrong even though I got the right answer to the math problem.  I just can't put into words right.

 

One more day to go...

 

Good night all! --V

 

HI V, thanks for stopping by .... Hope you get a good long rest after this week! We'll need your math brain at some point ! 

[[...]]

Miyu, if you're a fast metabolizer of V (like me, ultra-fast) it's possible you might like L better. What I meant about the nuisance was V comes as a liquid but you have to create your own L liquid (if you do liquid). I absolutely hate dry cutting of anything. I know it's just a thing with me, but I hate those scales and I don't trust them. I dry cut a med once before. Never again.

 

I mix L every night because of a study I read that was measuring how fast L broke down in something called an osmotic minipump.

 

I found the abstract of the study here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20066402

 

Or you can dry cut. If you don't have dry-cut-phobia like me, it could work out fine.

 

Gard

I mix my Valium every other night so no biggie really......I just asked about refridgeration on the microtaper group.....might as well ask you here...... It's too warm for me to keep anything out of the fridge ..... Do you think it's ok to refridgerate Librium? Over night that is . Or maybe I wouldn't need to I could just mix up my dose in water each night and take out whatever I was reducing .

Hate the thought of having to do all the math all over after finally figuring out the V , but maybe it wouldn't be so hard....with 5 mg caps . 

MiYu 

 

Check the directions on your medication. They usually say room temperature. I kept my liquefied Xanax a week at room temperature, though that was probably pushing it.

Yes.... Problem is you can't keep milk out at room temp..... I think it's fine tho for Valium as apparently  it is more soluble in colder temp liquids ......

I'm sure all those doing liquid mgs with milk and V must keep it  in the fridge.....

[[sl...]]

Interesting. I take magnesium and it doesn't bother me. I never take mega-doses, though. Same with my vitamins. I take low doses just as insurance for when I'm not eating well. Such as today.

So do I Gard because according to my blood tests I am low in calcium  and magnesium  so my doctor gives me calcium/magnesium/VitD supplements but they are, like yours, very low doses and I've had them for over 20 years.

My mother had the same problem and took the supplements for most of her life.

 

I never take my supplements with me on holiday because I can't be bothered carrying them and I eat much better when I'm away - in fact probably eat and drink too much on holiday  .

 

I have been without them for up to 8 weeks at a time -  and I've never noticed any ill effects of not taking the supplements but we are all different in our reactions aren't we.

 

Update - as Im going to be away from mid August to 12th September I'm going to leave my calcium/mag/vitD supplement out from today just in case it really is making w/d worse.

Anything helpful is worth a try.

I feel really great at the moment - oops dangerous to say that - i may have caught up with my last cut  because of the 2 month hold.

 

I never take them away with me anyway - i travel as light as possible and my ..erm..attempts at beautifying/toiletries already take up too much of my luggage space.

 

[[sl...]]

Just thought I'd pop in and say hi! I Hope everyone is doing well and figuring out how and what to taper. It's been a looooong week for me lol.  I'm more exhausted every day when i get home.

 

Every time i get called on to show how i got a math answer, I get it wrong even though I got the right answer to the math problem.  I just can't put into words right.

 

One more day to go...

 

Good night all! --V

 

HI V, thanks for stopping by .... Hope you get a good long rest after this week! We'll need your math brain at some point ! 

Yes V I second that

[[sl...]]

Thank you everyone for the info about milk/vodka etc.

I'm slowly not improving now, I'm slowly going mad

 

I don't know what to do now about reducing.

I guess I'll try the vodka but if it bothers me I'll go back to dry cutting.

I did read all about the milk titration when I first used this forum, and copied the information down but thought the vodka looked easier because it makes a real solution and doesn't need refrigerating.

in fact it was milk I first asked Valley about and he asked if I had considered vodka so.....um....yes    I can only go by trial and error, probably error.

 

 

 

[[ga...]]

There's also food grade propylene glycol for those who can't use vodka and don't want to have to refrigerate. You can buy it on amazon. You'd have to ask on liquid titration amount the amount needed.

[[ga...]]

Last day of school for V!

[[Ca...]]

Shock, Horror... -I think its the real flu I got... This one responds to antibiotics... -like a good little bug should...

Living the dream..!! Lol

 

Valley... -leading us by example..!! -U deserve a massage and good nights sleep... Trim Cookies claws first...

 

My best to all...