The Long Hold Support Group

[[ga...]]

No problem! Enough for the whole thread!

http://chrisblattman.com/files/2017/03/chicken_one_million_dollar_bills_realistic_looking_novelty_money_hen_rooster_2_lgw.jpg

[[He...]]

 

I think I'll ask Cookie too...

 

She can drive so she must have at least  a bit  more than the average chicken brain up there!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you all got your information from her in the first place!

 

Hmmmm?

 

:laugh:

You got me! This Cookie at work.

 

http://i.imgur.com/hiO2vTK.gif

 

 

        See!  I knew it all along! It WAS Cookie! 

 

SHE'S THE BRAINS OF THE WHOLE SUPPORT GROUP !

[[an...]]

When a person is doing a DMT and reducing -.005  (5% a month), does he/she  do that same -.005 all the way down?  (Assuming all is going well). Or do you do 5% of your last dose each time, like in a cut and hold?

 

(I was planning on just doing -.005 each time I cut all the way down until the very last few fractions of a mg.)

 

 

Heath

 

Hi Heath,

 

I always base the percent cut on my last dosage rather than the original dosage.  Some have no problem cutting the same amount all the way to the end.  I did have a problem during my first taper.  My first taper was a piece of cake.  I tapered about 20% monthly.  The only time I had symptoms was if I made a mistake measuring my dose--that only happened a couple of times.  I was down to about 0.08 mg/day, and I all of a sudden started to experience symptoms.  This went on for about 2 or 3 days.  I finally realized that I was measuring my dose wrong.  Once I fixed it, I had no symptoms/problems all the way down to 0.01 mg/day--I continued cutting about 20% monthly until I got to 0.01 mg.  At that point, I was able to walk off. 

 

Again, others can cut the same amount until they are finished.  For me, I had to stay within the recommendation of no more than 5 - 10% every two weeks until I was down to almost nothing.  We are all different and if we listen to our bodies, we should do fine.

 

Enjoy the holiday weekend!!

 

Anne  :smitten:

 

[[ga...]]

Ah, at last some words of wisdom we know are coming from a human being! And no charge! :smitten:

[[He...]]

Thanks so much Anne,

You make a lot of sense.

 

I am tapering only 5% a month. It's awfully slow, but I am afraid of side effects. I have to be functional to tutor and do substitute teaching. If this works well this month, then maybe next month I just may try to do ... maybe 7 % a month. It's summertime and a good safe time to experiment a little bit.

 

But for now it am going to try a straight -.005 every two days as  I planned and see how the side effects appear.

 

Thanks for the info on the other possibilities.

 

 

And yes Gard,  this info is from a really real  human being, not a chicken!  Yay!

 

Thanks to all my supporters... I mean every single person in this long hold support group!

 

Very grateful Heath... 

[[sl...]]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/chkn.gif

 

Love this pic  but Cookie looks good on keyboard as well.

 

Looking at Anne2015's and Heath's posts I realise that my cuts have been on the big side.

Trouble is I only had, and still have, mainly 10mg tablets except I've got some 5mg and 2mg which I'm keeping for the end if I ever reach the end.

Also my doctor told me to cut 50% for two weeks and then the same again for two weeks - won't see me again now unless I'm completely off them - and also Ashton seemed to be cutting 10 or even 20% every couple of weeks.

 

SO I thought, as I was using a cutter very unscientifically, that a 25% cut would be ok if I held it for a month rather than 2 weeks 

You can tell how clueless I am about this    I've never done this before and had never heard of micro cuts or titration till I found this forum.

I'm thinking I will use your suggestion of starting with a .02ml per day to start, and then maybe increase it if I'm feeling ok.

 

If I get down to 4mgs and then have to calculate another 1mg reduction from the last dose, so from 4 to 3 over 20 days,  I will be back for instruction from Cookie - does she take card payment?

 

 

[[sl...]]

Reading Heath, Valley, Gard and Anne2015 I can see that you guys are experienced so am not worrying about holding this 5mgs for a while now.

 

I will try to relax about it 

I will relax about it.

I prefer to have as few symptoms as possible because I live alone but have quite alot of social things going on and I work, luckily from home, but I need to be functional.

 

Vertigo is my worst symptom - up until now but probably I am having increased anxiety because I find myself constantly telling myself to stop tensing my muscles, especially neck and shoulders and really trying to stop doing that.

Thank you everyone for your help and support

It's really appreciated  :smitten: :smitten:

 

 

 

[[Va...]]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/chkn.gif

 

Love this pic  but Cookie looks good on keyboard as well.

 

Looking at Anne2015's and Heath's posts I realise that my cuts have been on the big side.

Trouble is I only had, and still have, mainly 10mg tablets except I've got some 5mg and 2mg which I'm keeping for the end if I ever reach the end.

Also my doctor told me to cut 50% for two weeks and then the same again for two weeks - won't see me again now unless I'm completely off them - and also Ashton seemed to be cutting 10 or even 20% every couple of weeks.

 

SO I thought, as I was using a cutter very unscientifically, that a 25% cut would be ok if I held it for a month rather than 2 weeks 

You can tell how clueless I am about this    I've never done this before and had never heard of micro cuts or titration till I found this forum.

I'm thinking I will use your suggestion of starting with a .02ml per day to start, and then maybe increase it if I'm feeling ok.

 

If I get down to 4mgs and then have to calculate another 1mg reduction from the last dose, so from 4 to 3 over 20 days,  I will be back for instruction from Cookie - does she take card payment?

Hi slowly. Starting with .02 is a wise decision IMO. Better to start small than too large and have to back off, hold and then,start at a lower rate. I only tolerate cuts of .015 to .02 but I'm pretty sensitive to cuts so I err on the side of caution.

 

Cookie only takes payments in chicken scratch. If you get her some of that, she'll figure anything for you. 

[[be...]]

Reading Heath, Valley, Gard and Anne2015 I can see that you guys are experienced so am not worrying about holding this 5mgs for a while now.

 

I will try to relax about it 

I will relax about it.

I prefer to have as few symptoms as possible because I live alone but have quite alot of social things going on and I work, luckily from home, but I need to be functional.

 

Vertigo is my worst symptom - up until now but probably I am having increased anxiety because I find myself constantly telling myself to stop tensing my muscles, especially neck and shoulders and really trying to stop doing that.

Thank you everyone for your help and support

It's really appreciated  :smitten: :smitten:

Hi slowly, just wanted to give you a hint about the Vertigo, I have bil Meniere's disease the reason I was put on Valium to relax my neck and head and you know the ugly rest of the story. But what has helped me most when I have a dizzy spell is to Focus on something on the wall or an object and keep staring at it, doing that seems to help stop the unrelenting movement, and be sure to walk close to walls and not out in open area, without something you can hold on to. Stay Strong. Use my little red breathe at the end of my sig it helps to relax. 

[[He...]]

Hi Slowly,

 

You wrote this in one of your recent past posts.

 

If I get down to 4mgs and then have to calculate another 1mg reduction from the last dose, so from 4 to 3 over 20 days,  I will be back for instruction from Cookie - does she take card payment?

 

I copied the above from your post. I know it's premature because you are not near the point that you would do this but it concerned me.

 

If you were to cut 1mg from 4mgs,  you would be making a cut of 25% in 20 days.  IMO that would be much too big of a cut and might very likely leave you with major side effects. ( the lower you go in your taper, the smaller your cuts should be.)

 

I know Anne said she cut up to 20%. Some people are able to do it. And that's fine for them.She has always given me great advice and I am so glad when she answers my posts.

But, for me, well...I never could cut that amount. It would land me flat on my face! 

 

So just be cautious. Do only what your body and brain can handle.

 

Just a thought to consider.

 

Heath

[[Ca...]]

Hi Slowly,

 

You wrote this in one of your recent past posts.

 

If I get down to 4mgs and then have to calculate another 1mg reduction from the last dose, so from 4 to 3 over 20 days,  I will be back for instruction from Cookie - does she take card payment?

 

I copied the above from your post. I know it's premature because you are not near the point that you would do this but it concerned me.

 

If you were to cut 1mg from 4mgs,  you would be making a cut of 25% in 20 days.  IMO that would be much too big of a cut and might very likely leave you with major side effects. ( the lower you go in your taper, the smaller your cuts should be.)

 

I know Anne said she cut up to 20%. Some people are able to do it. And that's fine for them.She has always given me great advice and I am so glad when she answers my posts.

But, for me, well...I never could cut that amount. It would land me flat on my face! 

 

So just be cautious. Do only what your body and brain can handle.

 

Just a thought to consider.

 

Heath

Good possible catch...

A safe call at least...

 

[[sl...]]

Reading Heath, Valley, Gard and Anne2015 I can see that you guys are experienced so am not worrying about holding this 5mgs for a while now.

 

I will try to relax about it 

I will relax about it.

I prefer to have as few symptoms as possible because I live alone but have quite alot of social things going on and I work, luckily from home, but I need to be functional.

 

Vertigo is my worst symptom - up until now but probably I am having increased anxiety because I find myself constantly telling myself to stop tensing my muscles, especially neck and shoulders and really trying to stop doing that.

Thank you everyone for your help and support

It's really appreciated  :smitten: :smitten:

Hi slowly, just wanted to give you a hint about the Vertigo, I have bil Meniere's disease the reason I was put on Valium to relax my neck and head and you know the ugly rest of the story. But what has helped me most when I have a dizzy spell is to Focus on something on the wall or an object and keep staring at it, doing that seems to help stop the unrelenting movement, and be sure to walk close to walls and not out in open area, without something you can hold on to. Stay Strong. Use my little red breathe at the end of my sig it helps to relax. 

 

Thanks begood I will try that.

Must be horrible having bil Menieres, my father had it, along with tinnitus, before he retired.

Nearly drove him mad but they both went away eventually.

Must say this vertigo is driving me mad as well      so I'll try any tips to help it.

 

[[sl...]]

Hi Slowly,

 

You wrote this in one of your recent past posts.

 

If I get down to 4mgs and then have to calculate another 1mg reduction from the last dose, so from 4 to 3 over 20 days,  I will be back for instruction from Cookie - does she take card payment?

 

I copied the above from your post. I know it's premature because you are not near the point that you would do this but it concerned me.

 

If you were to cut 1mg from 4mgs,  you would be making a cut of 25% in 20 days.  IMO that would be much too big of a cut and might very likely leave you with major side effects. ( the lower you go in your taper, the smaller your cuts should be.)

 

I know Anne said she cut up to 20%. Some people are able to do it. And that's fine for them.She has always given me great advice and I am so glad when she answers my posts.

But, for me, well...I never could cut that amount. It would land me flat on my face! 

 

So just be cautious. Do only what your body and brain can handle.

 

Just a thought to consider.

 

Heath

 

Thanks Cantfly - I was planning to make another 1mg cut if I ever get to 4mgs but I realised after reading the posts you have all made to help me that another 1mg would be too big a cut again.

That's why I thought I would need to come back to ask Cookie to calculate my next drop in dose - perhaps to 3.5 or even 3.75?

I am learning the hard way at the moment but won't make that mistake again

I was getting way ahead of myself thinking it was going to be 1mg at a time every couple of weeks but ...erm..don't think so now 

[[Ca...]]

Hi Slowly,

 

You wrote this in one of your recent past posts.

 

If I get down to 4mgs and then have to calculate another 1mg reduction from the last dose, so from 4 to 3 over 20 days,  I will be back for instruction from Cookie - does she take card payment?

 

I copied the above from your post. I know it's premature because you are not near the point that you would do this but it concerned me.

 

If you were to cut 1mg from 4mgs,  you would be making a cut of 25% in 20 days.  IMO that would be much too big of a cut and might very likely leave you with major side effects. ( the lower you go in your taper, the smaller your cuts should be.)

 

I know Anne said she cut up to 20%. Some people are able to do it. And that's fine for them.She has always given me great advice and I am so glad when she answers my posts.

But, for me, well...I never could cut that amount. It would land me flat on my face! 

 

So just be cautious. Do only what your body and brain can handle.

 

Just a thought to consider.

 

Heath

 

Thanks Cantfly - I was planning to make another 1mg cut if I ever get to 4mgs but I realised after reading the posts you have all made to help me that another 1mg would be too big a cut again.

That's why I thought I would need to come back to ask Cookie to calculate my next drop in dose - perhaps to 3.5 or even 3.75?

I am learning the hard way at the moment but won't make that mistake again

I was getting way ahead of myself thinking it was going to be 1mg at a time every couple of weeks but ...erm..don't think so now 

That was Heaths good observation...

 

I tried 0.5 cuts when I was a bit higher, and had been holding... most times I updosed about day 12 and kept holding...

The big cuts can be done, with very long holds and suffering... But I think the smallest cut possible, but more often, would be much easier, and probably faster in the long run...

 

Its great to see you working out your options, and planning the taper that suits you... -Im sure you will do a fine job of it...

 

Be well...

[[Ki...]]

I had my original crossover scripts and valium based on Ashtons chart. I was lucky my doc had patience with me because there was NO WAY I was going to be able to even come close to that. Even Ashton now admits that schedule is way too fast for many, many people. So while you see a lot of people slide right off quickly remember, their brains are not our brains. We have to let our brains geal up at the rate they dictate- not Ashton or anyone else. And sometimes it takes a while to figure out our own rates, and they change. So even though it sounds hard, it really isnt- all you have to do is listen to what your brain is trying to tell you. For all of us here it seems our brains were all saying WHOA NELLIE!

[[Ca...]]

I had my original crossover scripts and valium based on Ashtons chart. I was lucky my doc had patience with me because there was NO WAY I was going to be able to even come close to that. Even Ashton now admits that schedule is way too fast for many, many people. So while you see a lot of people slide right off quickly remember, their brains are not our brains. We have to let our brains geal up at the rate they dictate- not Ashton or anyone else. And sometimes it takes a while to figure out our own rates, and they change. So even though it sounds hard, it really isnt- all you have to do is listen to what your brain is trying to tell you. For all of us here it seems our brains were all saying WHOA NELLIE!

Can u post this once on every board please...   lol...

Hope you are doing well...

 

*** Goodnight everyone...

Be well...

 

[[He...]]

I had my original crossover scripts and valium based on Ashtons chart. I was lucky my doc had patience with me because there was NO WAY I was going to be able to even come close to that. Even Ashton now admits that schedule is way too fast for many, many people. So while you see a lot of people slide right off quickly remember, their brains are not our brains. We have to let our brains geal up at the rate they dictate- not Ashton or anyone else. And sometimes it takes a while to figure out our own rates, and they change. So even though it sounds hard, it really isnt- all you have to do is listen to what your brain is trying to tell you. For all of us here it seems our brains were all saying WHOA NELLIE!

Can u post this once on every board please...   lol...

Hope you are doing well...

 

*** Goodnight everyone...

Be well...

 

Ditto!  I'm right there with you Kitty and Cant. "Whoa Nellie" is definitely my mantra.

[[Se...]]

I had my original crossover scripts and valium based on Ashtons chart. I was lucky my doc had patience with me because there was NO WAY I was going to be able to even come close to that. Even Ashton now admits that schedule is way too fast for many, many people. So while you see a lot of people slide right off quickly remember, their brains are not our brains. We have to let our brains geal up at the rate they dictate- not Ashton or anyone else. And sometimes it takes a while to figure out our own rates, and they change. So even though it sounds hard, it really isnt- all you have to do is listen to what your brain is trying to tell you. For all of us here it seems our brains were all saying WHOA NELLIE!

 

 

I agree 100%

[[ga...]]

I had my original crossover scripts and valium based on Ashtons chart. I was lucky my doc had patience with me because there was NO WAY I was going to be able to even come close to that. Even Ashton now admits that schedule is way too fast for many, many people. So while you see a lot of people slide right off quickly remember, their brains are not our brains. We have to let our brains heal up at the rate they dictate- not Ashton or anyone else. And sometimes it takes a while to figure out our own rates, and they change. So even though it sounds hard, it really isnt- all you have to do is listen to what your brain is trying to tell you. For all of us here it seems our brains were all saying WHOA NELLIE!

Can u post this once on every board please...   lol...

Hope you are doing well...

 

*** Goodnight everyone...

Be well...

 

:thumbsup:

[[Ca...]]

So I am looking for some feedback (that is to say, feedback and maybe some encouragement....)

About 5 1/2 weeks back I got shingles, and it has been a long difficult haul. I am told it hasn't been a 'bad' case - I missed about 5 days of work and never had to resort to heavy duty painkillers...but it has totally kicked my butt. I am still so tired I can just about stagger through a half-day, and the pain, though reducing a little bit each day, is still with me, and at times it is pretty insistent: there are times when I have to move slowly and brace myself to avoid rubbing it. I also have had horrible stomach issues: the nerve affected must run through my digestive system...

I also - probably foolishly - figured that since I was going to be suffering anyway, I might as well reduce my V from 1.9 to 1.85 mg. So as I go through the Shingles, I am experiencing a significant exacerbation of withdrawal symptoms - some stomach stuff (can't tell whats S & whats V) and some tremors and some increased anxiety and some nerve pain.

I guess my questions are:

- would the Shingles exacerbate the effects of such a small V reduction?

- should I think about an updose - 5 weeks of such debility is really messing with my head, especially after years of Lyme and last summer's withdrawal from Gabapentin...

Hope everybody is doing well with tapers - I am finally together enough to catch up with 5 weeks of posts...

 

[[He...]]

Hi Callydex,

Glad to see you here, but oh so sorry about what you are going through with the shingles on top of the withdrawal side effects. what a bummer!

Unfortunately, I do not have any real suggestions for you, but I am  sure some of the more experienced buddies will chime in with some good support.

Just want you to know that I feel for ya!

Thinking about you and hoping the shingles pain subsides and leaves you alone real soon!

 

Heath  :therethere:

[[Ca...]]

Thanks - appreciate it. Don't get Shingles

[[Va...]]

So I am looking for some feedback (that is to say, feedback and maybe some encouragement....)

About 5 1/2 weeks back I got shingles, and it has been a long difficult haul. I am told it hasn't been a 'bad' case - I missed about 5 days of work and never had to resort to heavy duty painkillers...but it has totally kicked my butt. I am still so tired I can just about stagger through a half-day, and the pain, though reducing a little bit each day, is still with me, and at times it is pretty insistent: there are times when I have to move slowly and brace myself to avoid rubbing it. I also have had horrible stomach issues: the nerve affected must run through my digestive system...

I also - probably foolishly - figured that since I was going to be suffering anyway, I might as well reduce my V from 1.9 to 1.85 mg. So as I go through the Shingles, I am experiencing a significant exacerbation of withdrawal symptoms - some stomach stuff (can't tell whats S & whats V) and some tremors and some increased anxiety and some nerve pain.

I guess my questions are:

- would the Shingles exacerbate the effects of such a small V reduction?

- should I think about an updose - 5 weeks of such debility is really messing with my head, especially after years of Lyme and last summer's withdrawal from Gabapentin...

Hope everybody is doing well with tapers - I am finally together enough to catch up with 5 weeks of posts...

Wow. Sorry Cally. I can certainly speculate that benzo withdrawal would exacerbate the pain from the shingles. Nerves are being rebuilt and repaired during withdrawal so it stands to reason that you would have some increased pain. If you have been microtapering perhaps a slight updose would help? 

 

I can empathize with you having had shingles myself and knowing how painful they are. I couldn't even wear a shirt as I recall and they wouldn't give me anything for the pain because I was too young" (17 years old at the time). Hang in there!  --V

[[ga...]]

I believe even Ashton said that stress exacerbates w/d symptoms. Shingles would definitely be stress.

 

I think I will go get my shingles vaccine now.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks for the reply Valley-

How long did your shingles last? Did you also have fatigue for a long period of time? I too am wearing large t shirts and just holding them away from my skin...driving is the worst cause I can't do that...