The Long Hold Support Group

[[ga...]]

 

I was just coming back to Gard to say that it was the "Dizzy,boaty"  thread which scared me before I came to this group. 

Some people seem to have it for months or years and I think that is what bothers me and makes me start to think I might as well just push ahead with reducing if I'm going to have this all the way through, to some extent anyway...

 

Trouble is with the other support threads that I come across people saying that symptoms got worse the longer they held?

 

 

Gosh, haven't seen that thread, Slowly. I will not look at it!

 

It's true that some people have said long holds did not help them. Everybody is different and has a different history of meds, and such. You don't know what will work until you try it. It sounds like you did a long hold in the past and it did help you, right? I would find that to be a good sign. 

 

As far as rate if taper, we typically go by percent of total dose. 10% per month is generally considered a safe rate, but some buddies can't even go that fast. Many buddies find they need to slow their rate near the end. I would recommend going by percent of current total when figuring cuts and finding out what rate works for you.

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Yay, the math gurus are here! 

[[Ca...]]

Thank you Valley.

I was just coming back to Gard to say that it was the "Dizzy,boaty"  thread which scared me before I came to this group. 

Some people seem to have it for months or years and I think that is what bothers me and makes me start to think I might as well just push ahead with reducing if I'm going to have this all the way through, to some extent anyway.

 

I didn't realise that my cut from 6 ish down to 5mg was that big, but maybe it was too much.

It was very unscientific - I cut the 2.5 bit of my 7.5 into half so I guess I was on 6.25 for a month ...then to 5mg.

 

I have to hold this at least until mid July after my London visit so I'll see how I am by then.

Terrified of the London trip now, because of this but think I've got to do it - daren't tell my daughters I'm even on this stuff let alone withdrawing from it.

 

I thought that about 1mg a month was ok?

It seems about the same as yours and alot of people on the other topic threads.

I definitely won't updose.

Trouble is with the other support threads that I come across people saying that symptoms got worse the longer they held?

 

I've only ever done one long hold, for between 6 and 7 months but that was the cross over from 5mg Nitrazepam so I kind of expected that to be bad and was happy to hold.

There is no way that Nitrazepam is equivalent gram for gram with diazepam/Valum whatever Ashton says.

Not for me it wasn't anyway. 

Was expecting this straight taper from Diazepam to be much easier.

 

You sound encouraging though if your vertigo went away and you were able to carry on tapering.

Also encouraging to hear that you can have a good patch and then symptoms return ...it seemed odd to me.

I will try and plough on after mid July and stop pestering people on here.

Thank you 

 

kick baacckkk... -reelllaaaaxxx...

 

Yup..!! -twas a pretty bad ass cut IMHO...   -remembering we are all different... Out in the big wide world it might be fine for many people...?

 

I think... -people often feel worse holding, as previous cuts from weeks/months before, are still accumilating...

 

Small daily cuts are smoother and possibly allow for a bit larger reductions for similar pain...

 

I suspect that many in this group will avoid serious post jump SX as they are keeping the bodys required medication levels inline with the healing process on the way down to 0mg... -Tapering by SX...

That is where an updose can come into it... -to correct the ratio...

-or one can hold and wait it out...

A micro taper, -the gap may be small (ie. caught early).

Cut n hold, -the gap could be large.. (ie. months of suffering while holding, as opposed to correcting)

But again, we are all different and for some, updosing can be unpredictable, or not work...

 

Hope this helps as general info..??

Just my thoughts, not meant to sway you either way on anything...

 

[[Ca...]]

Thank you Cantfly

That sounds just like what I'm experiencing.

I had no real symptoms until around 16 days into this last cut.

Then whoosh ...floor moving violently....cat confused at being trodden on ...etc 

 

I'm starting [i hope] after my London trip, to do the liquid titration which Valley worked out for me so the next 1mg reduction might be easier.

That's if I make it to London and back ...not far to travel only around an hour, then I meet with my daughter so I stop being scared.

Will hold on to her if necessary 

 

Thanks again for your help.

It just helps to know that what I'm having is "normal"

Hmmm.. -Maybe I do get vertigo.. I broke my ankle tripping over the dogs.. But I have no nerves to one foot (foot drop) -so im wobbly at the best of times... And I have put a lot of balance stuff down to other medication or lack thereof...

-I guess for me it wouldnt change much anyway... The last week I have been getting that feeling one gets in the guts going fast over a steep hill (loosing your guts, -not dropping your guts), but that feeling is in my head... kinda like a brain back flip, then its gone...??

 

Hey, good luck with the tennis trip... top marks for "distraction"...

 

[[Ca...]]

Hi Gard... :) ...........

 

Can u help pls.. 

 

-I want to cut 6.789% over 43.678 days...

With a 1.345kg:5678gallon solution...

 

I want to dose 18 times a day with coffee...

-could you do a schedual up for me please..

 

-or would you prefer I stuck to cut n hold, for now.. Lol

 

(And NO, -im not going to check your answer...)!!!

 

[[He...]]

Hi Slowly,

I just took out my trusty little calculator and found that cutting 1.5 mg from 6.5 mg is a little over a 20% cut. yes, that is mighty big cut.

When I did things like that At the beginning of my taper before I found benzo buddies, I sure did suffer the consequences.  Had to hold for 3-4 months so all the healing and adjusting could catch up with my cut and all the wdsx that were piling up.

 

But don't despair! Once I did that hold it was pretty much fair sailing after that. But I never cut big like that again!

 

And yes I sure did get vertigo as one of my symptoms. I had to hold on to the walls in order to wLk! Scary awful feeling!

It went away in about two days.  Now and then it surfaces, but mildly.

 

Oh an yes, wdsx do go away and come back again. It's the nature of Benzos.

 

Nova posted a really good picture explanation a few days ago. It explained that each wdsx is re- appearing because it is that part of your brain that  is healing. And healing is not linear. It seems that when part of your brain heals, it may not completely heal. So each time you get a wdsx that is the same as before, it means that your brain is doing an even deeper healing. And it will keep coming back until that part of your brain is completely healed. Does that make sense?. Anyway, that's the way I interpreted it.

 

HEY NOVA, IF YOU ARE READING THIS, WOULD YOU POST THAT POST AGAIN SO SLOWLY CAN SEE IT. Thanks!

 

So yes I agree with Cantfly, Valley and Gard.

You probably need a good hold until you feel stable.

But definitely don't cut when you ar having bad side effects.

Listen to your brain and body and you will know when you feel stable and ready to cut again.

 

Good luck kiddo! Patience, acceptance, inner strength, and courage,  are what I wish you.

 

But I think you will be just fine! 

 

Heath :smitten:

 

[[He...]]

Hi Gard... :) ...........

 

Can u help pls.. 

 

-I want to cut 6.789% over 43.678 days...

With a 1.345kg:5678gallon solution...

 

I want to dose 18 times a day with coffee...

-could you do a schedual up for me please..

 

-or would you prefer I stuck to cut n hold, for now.. Lol

 

(And NO, -im not going to check your answer...)!!!

 

 

COMIC RELIEF...I LOVE IT,

:D

[[Va...]]

Hi Gard... :) ...........

 

Can u help pls.. 

 

-I want to cut 6.789% over 43.678 days...

With a 1.345kg:5678gallon solution...

 

I want to dose 18 times a day with coffee...

-could you do a schedual up for me please..

 

-or would you prefer I stuck to cut n hold, for now.. Lol

 

(And NO, -im not going to check your answer...)!!!

:laugh:

[[He...]]

Thanks everyone for your support! .

 

Well, here goes! I'll keep you posted!

 

Heath

[[ga...]]

 

 

kick baacckkk... -reelllaaaaxxx...

 

Yup..!! -twas a pretty bad ass cut IMHO...   -remembering we are all different... Out in the big wide world it might be fine for many people...?

 

I think... -people often feel worse holding, as previous cuts from weeks/months before, are still accumilating...

 

Small daily cuts are smoother and possibly allow for a bit larger reductions for similar pain...

 

I suspect that many in this group will avoid serious post jump SX as they are keeping the bodys required medication levels inline with the healing process on the way down to 0mg... -Tapering by SX...

That is where an updose can come into it... -to correct the ratio...

-or one can hold and wait it out...

A micro taper, -the gap may be small (ie. caught early).

Cut n hold, -the gap could be large.. (ie. months of suffering while holding, as opposed to correcting)

But again, we are all different and for some, updosing can be unpredictable, or not work...

 

Hope this helps as general info..??

Just my thoughts, not meant to sway you either way on anything...

 

Both good points, Cant.

[[sl...]]

Hi Slowly,

I just took out my trusty little calculator and found that cutting 1.5 mg from 6.5 mg is a little over a 20% cut. yes, that is mighty big cut.

When I did things like that At the beginning of my taper before I found benzo buddies, I sure did suffer the consequences.  Had to hold for 3-4 months so all the healing and adjusting could catch up with my cut and all the wdsx that were piling up.

 

But don't despair! Once I did that hold it was pretty much fair sailing after that. But I never cut big like that again!

 

And yes I sure did get vertigo as one of my symptoms. I had to hold on to the walls in order to wLk! Scary awful feeling!

It went away in about two days.  Now and then it surfaces, but mildly.

 

Oh an yes, wdsx do go away and come back again. It's the nature of Benzos.

 

Nova posted a really good picture explanation a few days ago. It explained that each wdsx is re- appearing because it is that part of your brain that  is healing. And healing is not linear. It seems that when part of your brain heals, it may not completely heal. So each time you get a wdsx that is the same as before, it means that your brain is doing an even deeper healing. And it will keep coming back until that part of your brain is completely healed. Does that make sense?. Anyway, that's the way I interpreted it.

 

HEY NOVA, IF YOU ARE READING THIS, WOULD YOU POST THAT POST AGAIN SO SLOWLY CAN SEE IT. Thanks!

 

So yes I agree with Cantfly, Valley and Gard.

You probably need a good hold until you feel stable.

But definitely don't cut when you ar having bad side effects.

Listen to your brain and body and you will know when you feel stable and ready to cut again.

 

Good luck kiddo! Patience, acceptance, inner strength, and courage,  are what I wish you.

 

But I think you will be just fine! 

 

Heath :smitten:

 

Oh thank you Heathcliff    and Gard and Cantfly  :hug: each.

 

Heath that was a perfect explanation...weird but it makes sense. thank you.

 

Did not realise I'd made such big cuts

 

Gard do NOT look at that boaty thread  - it's hellish 

 

Cantfly how awful for you having that foot problem.

I'm clumsy enough with this vertigo without an extra problem - just trod on a snail in garden.

Sunspecs on, heard a crunch  of shell beneath my feet - feel like at best a homewrecker and at worst a murderess. don't know if it's dead but bet it isn't well.

And yes I've had the losing your gut thing too.

Like when you are on a big fairground ride and you go "over the top"?

 

Yes the tennis is a great distraction.

It's about the only sport I'm interested i ad I [and my twin daughters]  have all played at County level and now  play at Club level.

[Well I'm not playing atm for obvious reasons lol but I'm a club member]

 

We used to be able to get tickets  every year from the tennis clubs and public ballot and the price was fine, but then the  corporate hospitality  moved in big time and they buy huge blocks of tickets to entertain their guests so the public don't get nearly as many available to them now so you have to buy tickets from Debenture holders [shareholders]

SO the people with Debenture shares can sell the pair of tickets a day which they get,for literally £1000s each.

 

These were a gift from someone my daughter does alot of work for - the CEO of the company gets a few pairs every year and doesn't want them all so ...YAY!!

If it's on tv that Rafa Nadal got squashed and play was suspended you will know the worst has happened  ...that'll be me and my vertigo.]

I'll hold a banner up with a big tortoise on 

Thanks all of you  :smitten: :smitten:

 

[[ga...]]

Hi Gard... :) ...........

 

Can u help pls.. 

 

-I want to cut 6.789% over 43.678 days...

With a 1.345kg:5678gallon solution...

 

I want to dose 18 times a day with coffee...

-could you do a schedual up for me please..

 

-or would you prefer I stuck to cut n hold, for now.. Lol

 

(And NO, -im not going to check your answer...)!!!

 

Oh no! Another one of Cant's impossible quizzes! 

 

Answers:

1. ask V

2. ask V

3. if that doesn't work, ask Cookie

[[Ca...]]

Hi Gard... :) ...........

 

Can u help pls.. 

 

-I want to cut 6.789% over 43.678 days...

With a 1.345kg:5678gallon solution...

 

I want to dose 18 times a day with coffee...

-could you do a schedual up for me please..

 

-or would you prefer I stuck to cut n hold, for now.. Lol

 

(And NO, -im not going to check your answer...)!!!

:laugh:

Hmmm... -if my estimating is right.. -it actually turns out quite close to a standard cut..!!!

-minus the coffee...!!

[[Va...]]

Hi Gard... :) ...........

 

Can u help pls.. 

 

-I want to cut 6.789% over 43.678 days...

With a 1.345kg:5678gallon solution...

 

I want to dose 18 times a day with coffee...

-could you do a schedual up for me please..

 

-or would you prefer I stuck to cut n hold, for now.. Lol

 

(And NO, -im not going to check your answer...)!!!

 

Oh no! Another one of Cant's impossible quizzes! 

 

Answers:

1. ask V

2. ask V

3. if that doesn't work, ask Cookie

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/chkn.gif

[[He...]]

When a person is doing a DMT and reducing -.005  (5% a month), does he/she  do that same -.005 all the way down?  (Assuming all is going well). Or do you do 5% of your last dose each time, like in a cut and hold?

 

(I was planning on just doing -.005 each time I cut all the way down until the very last few fractions of a mg.)

 

 

Heath

[[ga...]]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/chkn.gif

Oh, good. Another math guru on the thread!

[[Va...]]

When a person is doing a DMT and reducing -.005  (5% a month), does he/she  do that same -.005 all the way down?  (Assuming all is going well). Or do you do 5% of your last dose each time, like in a cut and hold?

 

(I was planning on just doing -.005 each time I cut all the way down until the very last few fractions of a mg.)

 

 

Heath

Hi Heath. As you get lower, the percentage starts to be less meaningful and you make cuts based on how well you can handle them. If you can cut .005 the rest of the way off that would be the way to go IMO. 

[[ga...]]

When a person is doing a DMT and reducing -.005  (5% a month), does he/she  do that same -.005 all the way down?  (Assuming all is going well). Or do you do 5% of your last dose each time, like in a cut and hold?

 

(I was planning on just doing -.005 each time I cut all the way down until the very last few fractions of a mg.)

 

 

Heath

 

Heath, Some people recalculate their percentage once a month or so. Or, as V said, some people keep cutting until they get an uptick in symptoms.

I haven't decided. Maybe I'll ask Cookie.

 

I suspect that recent gif was not really Cookie at all.

I think this is the real Cookie!

[[Va...]]

When a person is doing a DMT and reducing -.005  (5% a month), does he/she  do that same -.005 all the way down?  (Assuming all is going well). Or do you do 5% of your last dose each time, like in a cut and hold?

 

(I was planning on just doing -.005 each time I cut all the way down until the very last few fractions of a mg.)

 

 

Heath

 

Heath, Some people recalculate their percentage once a month or so. Or, as V said, some people keep cutting until they get an uptick in symptoms.

I haven't decided. Maybe I'll ask Cookie.

 

I suspect that recent gif was not really Cookie at all.

I think this is the real Cookie!

 

What was that?

 

[[ga...]]

Looks like the same bird to me!

[[He...]]

Valley, Gard,....thanks for your reply! I got it now!

 

But just to be sure , 

 

I think I'll ask Cookie too...

 

She can drive so she must have at least  a bit  more than the average chicken brain up there!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you all got your information from her in the first place!

 

Hmmmm?

 

What's  Cookie's contact number? Or is it confidential?. We don't want everyone private messaging her all night long!

 

Thanks Gard, Valley, AND COOKIE!

[[ga...]]

 

I think I'll ask Cookie too...

 

She can drive so she must have at least  a bit  more than the average chicken brain up there!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you all got your information from her in the first place!

 

Hmmmm?

 

:laugh:

[[Va...]]

 

I think I'll ask Cookie too...

 

She can drive so she must have at least  a bit  more than the average chicken brain up there!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you all got your information from her in the first place!

 

Hmmmm?

 

:laugh:

You got me! This is Cookie at work.

 

http://i.imgur.com/hiO2vTK.gif

[[ga...]]

Brings a whole new meaning to chicken-tapering! :laugh:

[[be...]]

[glow=red,2,300]"Cookie"[/glow] charges per the half hour...no chicken feed please....