The Long Hold Support Group

[[He...]]

Well my crazy hand and arm aches especially on right side, have begun to subside, or else I am in a window. What ever it is, thank goodness!

 

Went to p doc today. He assured me he will always let  me go at my own pace with my taper. Seems like he is more understanding than I am with myself! I want off this crap, but he doesn't care how slow I go! As long as I am making progress. He certainly is a gem!

When I hear about some of the crazy and  unfeeling doctors out there, I am just so mad!  And I  know how lucky I am to have found this doctor. He even said that he knows that there are many doctors out there who will just give a person a schedule to get off of their drug and there is just no discussion, and that's that!

 

I am so sorry for LostandDaydreaming. I hope you will keep searching for the right doctor, Lost! Oh how I wish you lived in California and could go to my doctor.

 

Heath

[[...]]

Well my crazy hand and arm aches especially on right side, have begun to subside, or else I am in a window. What ever it is, thank goodness!

 

Went to p doc today. He assured me he will always let  me go at my own pace with my taper. Seems like he is more understanding than I am with myself! I want off this crap, but he doesn't care how slow I go! As long as I am making progress. He certainly is a gem!

When I hear about some of the crazy and  unfeeling doctors out there, I am just so mad!  And I  know how lucky I am to have found this doctor. He even said that he knows that there are many doctors out there who will just give a person a schedule to get off of their drug and there is just no discussion, and that's that!

 

I am so sorry for LostandDaydreaming. I hope you will keep searching for the right doctor, Lost! Oh how I wish you lived in California and could go to my doctor.

 

Heath

 

Where are you in CA Heath ? In case I need a supportive doc? Glad your arm aches went away!

 

Lost... so sorry for your horrible doctor,  I really hope you find some one supportive. 

 

My appointment is tomorrow with a new doc... So hoping she will be supportive , fingers crossed.

 

love, Miyu :smitten:

 

[[He...]]

Hi MIYU,

 

I am in Southern California in L.A. County.

[[He...]]

Well those pains in my hands and arms are NOT gone. I realize now that it is just a window that I get for the past three days each night from about 6:00 pm until I go to bed where it almost disappears. But it's back in the morning! Seems to be localizing in my right hand. Very wierd.  Well atleast it's going in the right direction?..and that is ....on its way out! I guess it will take a few more days.

At least, I hope that is what's happening.

 

Heath.

[[ca...]]

Just wanted to say hi and know ( Everyone ) is in my thoughts so keep the faith ~CD

[[ga...]]

I'm addicted to them. I've been on them 17 years no shit. When I asked why I have to be made to go so fast, her reply is in bi polar (second time seeing her for 5 minutes never been diagnosed it before) so I can't take them anymore they are the reason I have panic attacks according to her, when they are still the only thing that stop them.

 

Lost, if you have been taking medication as prescribed you are dependent, not addicted. If your doctor is using the word addicted with you, she may think you are an addict and that may be why she is tapering you off fast. It's still wrong. She is terribly misinformed. I would urge you to try to find another doctor. If you have any friends or family who can help you with this, please ask them to. Explain you want to get off but that you need  slow taper.

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

Well those pains in my hands and arms are NOT gone. I realize now that it is just a window that I get for the past three days each night from about 6:00 pm until I go to bed where it almost disappears. But it's back in the morning! Seems to be localizing in my right hand. Very wierd.  Well atleast it's going in the right direction?..and that is ....on its way out! I guess it will take a few more days.

At least, I hope that is what's happening.

 

Heath.

Glad it's letting up Heath! Hope it goes away soon.  --V

[[Va...]]

Just wanted to say hi and know ( Everyone ) is in my thoughts so keep the faith ~CD

Hi CD!  --V

[[lo...]]

I'm addicted to them. I've been on them 17 years no shit. When I asked why I have to be made to go so fast, her reply is in bi polar (second time seeing her for 5 minutes never been diagnosed it before) so I can't take them anymore they are the reason I have panic attacks according to her, when they are still the only thing that stop them.

 

Lost, if you have been taking medication as prescribed you are dependent, not addicted. If your doctor is using the word addicted with you, she may think you are an addict and that may be why she is tapering you off fast. It's still wrong. She is terribly misinformed. I would urge you to try to find another doctor. If you have any friends or family who can help you with this, please ask them to. Explain you want to get off but that you need  slow taper.

 

Gard

 

When she called me a addict my boyfriend lost it, I was in the er last month and they said I was dependant not a addict and I should not be treated as a addict. This doctor has seen me twice a total of 20 mins, 10 mins each and yesterday after 5 minutes told me I was a addict and bi polar. I have never been diagnosed with bi polar or anything close by a doctor I saw 10 years. She is rude and harsh. I am tryimg to find a doctor no luck. I'm alone all day with my kids, I am basically stuck in bed with awful withdraws. I feel crazy, I just started to stabilze and do things and she made another cut. She wanted to take away almost a full 1mg and she said if be fine.

[[ly...]]

I'm addicted to them. I've been on them 17 years no shit. When I asked why I have to be made to go so fast, her reply is in bi polar (second time seeing her for 5 minutes never been diagnosed it before) so I can't take them anymore they are the reason I have panic attacks according to her, when they are still the only thing that stop them.

 

Lost, if you have been taking medication as prescribed you are dependent, not addicted. If your doctor is using the word addicted with you, she may think you are an addict and that may be why she is tapering you off fast. It's still wrong. She is terribly misinformed. I would urge you to try to find another doctor. If you have any friends or family who can help you with this, please ask them to. Explain you want to get off but that you need  slow taper.

 

Gard

 

When she called me a addict my boyfriend lost it, I was in the er last month and they said I was dependant not a addict and I should not be treated as a addict. This doctor has seen me twice a total of 20 mins, 10 mins each and yesterday after 5 minutes told me I was a addict and bi polar. I have never been diagnosed with bi polar or anything close by a doctor I saw 10 years. She is rude and harsh. I am tryimg to find a doctor no luck. I'm alone all day with my kids, I am basically stuck in bed with awful withdraws. I feel crazy, I just started to stabilze and do things and she made another cut. She wanted to take away almost a full 1mg and she said if be fine.

 

I think there is some sort of list of "benzo-wise" doctors somewhere on BB.  Maybe if you go to WD Support or General Taper Support and ask if anyone has a good doctor in your general area?  Maybe someone can pm you.  Maybe ask your pharmacist for a recommendation?  Mine pharmacist is an idiot.

[[ga...]]

I'm addicted to them. I've been on them 17 years no shit. When I asked why I have to be made to go so fast, her reply is in bi polar (second time seeing her for 5 minutes never been diagnosed it before) so I can't take them anymore they are the reason I have panic attacks according to her, when they are still the only thing that stop them.

 

Lost, if you have been taking medication as prescribed you are dependent, not addicted. If your doctor is using the word addicted with you, she may think you are an addict and that may be why she is tapering you off fast. It's still wrong. She is terribly misinformed. I would urge you to try to find another doctor. If you have any friends or family who can help you with this, please ask them to. Explain you want to get off but that you need  slow taper.

 

Gard

 

When she called me a addict my boyfriend lost it, I was in the er last month and they said I was dependant not a addict and I should not be treated as a addict. This doctor has seen me twice a total of 20 mins, 10 mins each and yesterday after 5 minutes told me I was a addict and bi polar. I have never been diagnosed with bi polar or anything close by a doctor I saw 10 years. She is rude and harsh. I am tryimg to find a doctor no luck. I'm alone all day with my kids, I am basically stuck in bed with awful withdraws. I feel crazy, I just started to stabilze and do things and she made another cut. She wanted to take away almost a full 1mg and she said if be fine.

 

Thank goodness you know that. Hang onto that.

I agree with Lynn, don't give up trying to find another doctor. Perhaps the doctor who treated you in the ER could refer you. Perhaps your boyfriend could help you with that since you are so ill.

[[lo...]]

Never thought to ask my pharmacist, they have been amazing woth my taper making sure I stay on the same brand and everything. Ive been calling, going to try my family doc he was my original prescriber.

 

Sadly all the places around here are like government places that deal.mostly with herion addicts, they think that and mental health are the same.

[[...]]

Hi everyone, so I saw a new doctor today.... I'm not sure what to think really, I liked her , she's young , she listened and spent an hour with me , which is pretty good for a Medi- cal Doctor . She says they use Librium to taper people off benzos and wants to switch me .

Well, as I've been having a pretty rough time with the V , I'm going to try it.

 

Gard , I'm hoping you might be of some assistance here ..... I don't  know much about Librium .

I don't think she'd ever heard of Ashton , tho she did ask me what rate of taper I wanted to do . I told her I wouldn't know until I was on the Librium .

She doesn't want me to microtaper , but wants me to try cut and hold ..... Yikes ....

I'm scared of course ... She says she's never seen anyone disabled by a 5% taper .... Well, I guess we here are not the norm . She's expecting that I can have a life , be functional with that rate of taper every one to two months .

I don't know ....I guess I'm going to try it and see how I do. She wants to see me once a week , so she's way more committed than my other Doctor , but it sounds like she wants to have some control over my taper rate .

I'll cross to 25 mgs Librium , hold a month to stabilize and then cut 5 mgs to start .

 

Gard , what do you think of this plan? Given that I am at 8 mgs now of V , 25 mgs might be too much . She did say if I was too sedated that we could cut 5 mgs next week. I'll be crossing all at once , does anyone know anything about V to L crosses ? Seeing as I'm already on a long acting benzo I'm thinking a straight cross is ok . Perhaps having a bit of an updose will help me stabilize so I can taper more ... We'll see .

 

I do like that she's committed to helping me and she is an ' addictions specialist' , so she does know about  benzo WD and how difficult it can be. I'm suprised that she's not into microtaper though.

I mean , if people need to micro taper Valium then why wouldn't one need to micro taper Librium? Is lobriums halfmlife even longer than valiums?

 

I don't want to be rushed  and get in a bad situation. For some reason she seemed to think Librium was easier to taper than Valium , that seems strange to me . She also wants me to dose once a day .

Gard , do you find one dose a day ok? And do you take it at night if so?

 

I guess if things go south I'll have to move on to another doctor. In some ways I like that she is taking responsibility for helping me , but I also have to be able to have a say in what I can and can't do.

Also , Gard , at what point did you have to do a very long hold? Was that after you crossed to Librium? Or before when you tried to taper Xanax ?

Thanks for any pointers you can give me . I do hate being at the mercy of prescribing doctors!

 

Love, MiYu

 

 

 

[[no...]]

Hi everyone, so I saw a new doctor today.... I'm not sure what to think really, I liked her , she's young , she listened and spent an hour with me , which is pretty good for a Medi- cal Doctor . She says they use Librium to taper people off benzos and wants to switch me .

Well, as I've been having a pretty rough time with the V , I'm going to try it.

 

Gard , I'm hoping you might be of some assistance here ..... I don't  know much about Librium .

I don't think she'd ever heard of Ashton , tho she did ask me what rate of taper I wanted to do . I told her I wouldn't know until I was on the Librium .

She doesn't want me to microtaper , but wants me to try cut and hold ..... Yikes ....

I'm scared of course ... She says she's never seen anyone disabled by a 5% taper .... Well, I guess we here are not the norm . She's expecting that I can have a life , be functional with that rate of taper every one to two months .

I don't know ....I guess I'm going to try it and see how I do. She wants to see me once a week , so she's way more committed than my other Doctor , but it sounds like she wants to have some control over my taper rate .

I'll cross to 25 mgs Librium , hold a month to stabilize and then cut 5 mgs to start .

 

Gard , what do you think of this plan? Given that I am at 8 mgs now of V , 25 mgs might be too much . She did say if I was too sedated that we could cut 5 mgs next week. I'll be crossing all at once , does anyone know anything about V to L crosses ? Seeing as I'm already on a long acting benzo I'm thinking a straight cross is ok . Perhaps having a bit of an updose will help me stabilize so I can taper more ... We'll see .

 

I do like that she's committed to helping me and she is an ' addictions specialist' , so she does know about  benzo WD and how difficult it can be. I'm suprised that she's not into microtaper though.

I mean , if people need to micro taper Valium then why wouldn't one need to micro taper Librium? Is lobriums halfmlife even longer than valiums?

 

I don't want to be rushed  and get in a bad situation. For some reason she seemed to think Librium was easier to taper than Valium , that seems strange to me . She also wants me to dose once a day .

Gard , do you find one dose a day ok? And do you take it at night if so?

 

I guess if things go south I'll have to move on to another doctor. In some ways I like that she is taking responsibility for helping me , but I also have to be able to have a say in what I can and can't do.

Also , Gard , at what point did you have to do a very long hold? Was that after you crossed to Librium? Or before when you tried to taper Xanax ?

Thanks for any pointers you can give me . I do hate being at the mercy of prescribing doctors!

 

Love, MiYu

Hi M 25MG OF  Librium=1OMG  Diazepam, table of  equivalent, half life etc on this link http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

Hi M 25MG OF  Librium=1OMG  Diazepam, table of  equivalent, half life etc on this link http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

THank you Nova :smitten:

God I hope I'm doing the right thing! No way to know really.....

 

How are you? Any improvement?

sending hugs and hope you start to  feel better soon,

love, Miyu :hug:

 

 

 

[[no...]]

Hey M  another thought if you find the Librium a problem will she allow you to go back to the V? Also the only reason I can see for putting anyone onto Librium is if their original pill has a shorter half life, but Librium and Valium/Diazepam have the  same half life of  36-200 hours. The active metabolites in Librium clear quicker than Valium /Diazepam Librium metabolites clear in 5-30 hours, Valium/Diazepam clear in 20-100 hours. Just saw your post appear before I posted this

 

I'm still terribly rough but my neighbour keeps waking me up early hours door slamming here He was away last night but I hardly slept what sleep I did have was very light and I kept waking up a lot and pissing a lot though the night so was back and for to the toilet as well. I dread Friday onwards as he has the kids and his arsehole girlfriend running around until late over the weekends. Very rarely he stays over her place on weekends I'm hoping he's not coming back this week- end but its highly unlikely Funnily enough I was thinking about maybe trying another Benzo, but for myself decided to stick with the devil I know as I'm too worried about making any changes while holding as the body prefers as much stability as possible.

 

Every change is a change in stability, and I don't want to be doing anything at this point as I said it was a long hold that got me sorted before, and I'm very unstable now and obviously my environment isn't helping, and sound and is one of my pet hates anyway as I'm so sensitive to it so everything is really amplified, and it causes my pain levels to shot up and my brain burning pain to escalate as well.

 

Another thing I was reading about is different preparation of the same drug  can effect the drugs half life so that would explain why some peole can't tolerate liquid very well. And also if I have a set back  or a flare up in symptoms caused by stress, changes or nothing in general, it just happens I noticed my recovery period can take anything from a couple of days to over  2 weeks on times. And my sleep pattern can change for no particular reason without being disturb  but I've been woken up consistently by the neighbour week after week and day after day lately.

 

And now I got the housing officer and the housing manger calling here on Tuesday regarding it and that's stressing me out now as well I just want to be left the fk alone in peace to deal with all this also they've offered me a transfer and need medical back up off my Doctors who are complete arseholes. So I've got to try compose a letter to him before I give my Doctors consent to pass any medical back up  about all my symptom plus put evidence from different websites that will prove what I'm putting in the letter, plus  I got pictures of physical manifestations of different symptoms and what its done to my body.

 

I tried to get him to come to my home a few weeks ago to get it sorted but he rang me instead and there's no way I can communicate on the phone properly so he got angry with me as I was all over the place trying to explain and he yelled at me he wasn't going to put me back on benzos. He got it ALL wrong I was trying to explain I'm trying to get off them and  getting off them had disabled me and I want of them but need to get the hell out of this environment as its making it hell for me here.

 

I need his help to get moved else where, and he's not going to know what's going on with me if he won't come see me or I can't write to him, and get the arse to read the truth about these drugs and what their doing to people. Not only would it help me but it would help others for these Doctors to get fk wise up about it all too.  All this is really stressing me out and withdrwal amplifies EVERYTHING.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[ca...]]

Morning to ( ALL ) just keep believing that we are still healing even while we hold and fight the I must taper faster to heal   

IMO it will just put you in a worse place,so ..... keep the faith ~CD

[[...]]

Miyu- I crossed from K to Librium. My siggy is pretty detailed so take a look. I've had some really easy cuts but now I'm in a really rough place. Really scared and not sure what to do. I would love to keep in touch and find out details of what your doc is recommending. That's great she will see you wkly. That's commitment. Would you mind PMing me her name and location?? I could really use some guidance. When she says 5% over 1-2 mo, how exactly? Like make one cut and wait 1-2 months or several cuts?? Why is she not into MT- I know the medical community isn't familiar w/ it so it may just be that. I was thinking to try MT bc I'm at a loss of what else to do. My pdoc validates me but isn't much help otherwise w/ a plan. A sudden cross worked for me. I've never taken Valium so can't compare. Not too many BB on Librium but I think of it the same as V and I just do the conversion when I look at other buddies' tapers. Thank you!

[[no...]]

Morning to ( ALL ) just keep believing that we are still healing even while we hold and fight the I must taper faster to heal   

IMO it will just put you in a worse place,so ..... keep the faith ~CD

Hi CD    I robbed this off  one  Sista' Begoods thread's, ( Thanks Sista'  ) as I thought it was really appropriate  Motto regarding long hold's so am putting it here.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;

when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.

So long as mists envelop you, be still;

be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists

-- as it surely will.

Then act with courage.

 

Ponca Chief White Eagle (1800's to 1914) 

[[an...]]

Hi everyone, so I saw a new doctor today.... I'm not sure what to think really, I liked her , she's young , she listened and spent an hour with me , which is pretty good for a Medi- cal Doctor . She says they use Librium to taper people off benzos and wants to switch me .

Well, as I've been having a pretty rough time with the V , I'm going to try it.

 

Gard , I'm hoping you might be of some assistance here ..... I don't  know much about Librium .

I don't think she'd ever heard of Ashton , tho she did ask me what rate of taper I wanted to do . I told her I wouldn't know until I was on the Librium .

She doesn't want me to microtaper , but wants me to try cut and hold ..... Yikes ....

I'm scared of course ... She says she's never seen anyone disabled by a 5% taper .... Well, I guess we here are not the norm . She's expecting that I can have a life , be functional with that rate of taper every one to two months .

I don't know ....I guess I'm going to try it and see how I do. She wants to see me once a week , so she's way more committed than my other Doctor , but it sounds like she wants to have some control over my taper rate .

I'll cross to 25 mgs Librium , hold a month to stabilize and then cut 5 mgs to start .

 

Gard , what do you think of this plan? Given that I am at 8 mgs now of V , 25 mgs might be too much . She did say if I was too sedated that we could cut 5 mgs next week. I'll be crossing all at once , does anyone know anything about V to L crosses ? Seeing as I'm already on a long acting benzo I'm thinking a straight cross is ok . Perhaps having a bit of an updose will help me stabilize so I can taper more ... We'll see .

 

I do like that she's committed to helping me and she is an ' addictions specialist' , so she does know about  benzo WD and how difficult it can be. I'm suprised that she's not into microtaper though.

I mean , if people need to micro taper Valium then why wouldn't one need to micro taper Librium? Is lobriums halfmlife even longer than valiums?

 

I don't want to be rushed  and get in a bad situation. For some reason she seemed to think Librium was easier to taper than Valium , that seems strange to me . She also wants me to dose once a day .

Gard , do you find one dose a day ok? And do you take it at night if so?

 

I guess if things go south I'll have to move on to another doctor. In some ways I like that she is taking responsibility for helping me , but I also have to be able to have a say in what I can and can't do.

Also , Gard , at what point did you have to do a very long hold? Was that after you crossed to Librium? Or before when you tried to taper Xanax ?

Thanks for any pointers you can give me . I do hate being at the mercy of prescribing doctors!

 

Love, MiYu

 

Hi MiYu,

 

Glad to hear you have found a doctor that was willing to discuss the benzo taper. Like Nova, I wonder why you are being switched from one long acting bento to another.  What is the reasoning?  In addition to the questions that Nova asked, I would also want to know the following:

 

1.  Can you incorporate longer holds when needed?  a month, 2 months, 3 months, etc.?

2.  Can you switch back to valium if you do not stabilize?

3.  Will you be tapering 5% from the current dose or from the original 25 mg?

4.  Will you be tapering 5% of your dose, or 5 mg?  Big, big difference.

 

You stated that once you are on Librium, you will be decrease it by 5% once a month or once every two months.  That sounds reasonable to me (actually very slow), but you also stated that once you have been on the librium for one month, you will cut by 5 mg.  That is a 20% cut--5% of 25 mg is 1.25 mg.  That is a huge difference, and if it were me, I would ask her what she means by 5%.  It is not the same as 5 mg. I do not want to be a downer here, but  I just wanted to point this out so you know exactly what you are getting into.

 

Gard is the person to talk to about the librium.  I am sure she will be on soon to let you know her thoughts. 

 

Enjoy the day!!

Anne  :smitten:

[[...]]

Miyu- I also dose once at bedtime and always have.

Anne had good questions. I'm curious too if doc meant 5 mg every 1-2 mo.... Bc that's what they usually do ..vs 5%.  My previous pdoc wanted me to go down 5 mg every month or so and was shocked when I had sxs w/ the first cut. But it was tolerable so I stick it out and am glad I did. I knew I wouldn't be able to cut 5 mg again do I kinda took the taper into my own hands.

 

Anne- maybe another thread is better to ask but I'm thinking to start MT and want your advice on how to start. Choosing a rate? When you get sxs do you hold and decrease rate or keep the same rate? I posted on the MT thread too if you prefer answering there. Thanks!

[[ca...]]

When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;

when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.

So long as mists envelop you, be still;

be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists

-- as it surely will.

Then act with courage.

 

Ponca Chief White Eagle (1800's to 1914) 

[[la...]]

LOVE that quote  going to past it to my forehead

 

[[ga...]]

Hi everyone, so I saw a new doctor today.... I'm not sure what to think really, I liked her , she's young , she listened and spent an hour with me , which is pretty good for a Medi- cal Doctor . She says they use Librium to taper people off benzos and wants to switch me .

Well, as I've been having a pretty rough time with the V , I'm going to try it.

 

Gard , I'm hoping you might be of some assistance here ..... I don't  know much about Librium .

I don't think she'd ever heard of Ashton , tho she did ask me what rate of taper I wanted to do . I told her I wouldn't know until I was on the Librium .

She doesn't want me to microtaper , but wants me to try cut and hold ..... Yikes ....

I'm scared of course ... She says she's never seen anyone disabled by a 5% taper .... Well, I guess we here are not the norm . She's expecting that I can have a life , be functional with that rate of taper every one to two months .

I don't know ....I guess I'm going to try it and see how I do. She wants to see me once a week , so she's way more committed than my other Doctor , but it sounds like she wants to have some control over my taper rate .

I'll cross to 25 mgs Librium , hold a month to stabilize and then cut 5 mgs to start .

 

Gard , what do you think of this plan? Given that I am at 8 mgs now of V , 25 mgs might be too much . She did say if I was too sedated that we could cut 5 mgs next week. I'll be crossing all at once , does anyone know anything about V to L crosses ? Seeing as I'm already on a long acting benzo I'm thinking a straight cross is ok . Perhaps having a bit of an updose will help me stabilize so I can taper more ... We'll see .

 

I do like that she's committed to helping me and she is an ' addictions specialist' , so she does know about  benzo WD and how difficult it can be. I'm suprised that she's not into microtaper though.

I mean , if people need to micro taper Valium then why wouldn't one need to micro taper Librium? Is lobriums halfmlife even longer than valiums?

 

I don't want to be rushed  and get in a bad situation. For some reason she seemed to think Librium was easier to taper than Valium , that seems strange to me . She also wants me to dose once a day .

Gard , do you find one dose a day ok? And do you take it at night if so?

 

I guess if things go south I'll have to move on to another doctor. In some ways I like that she is taking responsibility for helping me , but I also have to be able to have a say in what I can and can't do.

Also , Gard , at what point did you have to do a very long hold? Was that after you crossed to Librium? Or before when you tried to taper Xanax ?

Thanks for any pointers you can give me . I do hate being at the mercy of prescribing doctors!

 

Love, MiYu

Hi Miyu.

 

First, I agree with Anne's concerns.

 

Second, you are not an addict. Do you want an addictions specialist? Addicts are often pushed to get off a med because they are addicts and "need to be pushed." She may have this mindset. I'd be concerned about an addictions specialist treating you like an addict and pushing you unnecessarily.

 

Also, 20mg of L sounds like a closer equivalence to 8mg of V. But an up-dose is better than a down-dose when crossing.

 

Librium was the first benzo. Valium was created as an improvement to Librium. V is stable as a liquid. You can get V as a liquid, which makes tapering simpler. V stronger than L. Librium and Valium are both depressing compared to Xanax or other fast benzos.

 

You're in the USA, right? Librium only comes in capsules here. The smallest is 5mg. You will have to dissolve unless you want to whack off a whole 5mg. (Not a good idea.)

 

I understand crossing from a short benzo to a long benzo. I don't understand why one would cross from a long benzo to a very similar long benzo.

 

Librium and Valium have almost exactly the same active metabolites, so are very similar drugs. They have similar half lives because of the active metabolites.

 

Librium is probably not stable in solution. I read a study that demonstrated it breaks down into its metabolites fairly quickly. They are active, but they are not the same benzo you started with. So I make up my dose every night for the following day. I open the tiny capsule and pour it into a jar. I find this very tricky. I've wasted capsules from spilling them. My daughter (young adult) does not have as much trouble.

 

Librium is preferred over Valium for alcohol detox symptoms in detox facilities. When I asked why, one doctor speculated Librium is probably preferred because it is cheaper, not because it is better.

 

I think many doctors are mistaken about Librium being easy to taper off of. I have a theory as to why. Just a theory. It is used short term to treat w/d symptoms from other addictions. Then the addict tapers off of the L. But the addict was never dependent on the L. They may have only used it for a few weeks at a very low dose. So of course it was easy to taper off of. They also may blame the w/d symptoms on the original drug of addiction. So then this fallacy gets passed around. "Oh they use it with addicts because it's easy to get off of. It's self tapering," and other such nonsense. It's certainly less painful than tapering off of Xanax, but if you are sensitive to tapering a benzo and you are dependent, I don't see how Librium would be better than Valium.

 

Librium is started at 3-4 times/day. When the person is stabilized, it is reduced to twice/day. There are some people who can take it once, just like there are some V people who can take it once. I actually take it 3 times/day, 8 hours apart. I do that because I take another med 8 hours apart and wanted to sync the two. I would not dream of taking it once/day, given how quickly I metabolize many meds. If you need V twice/day, you probably need L twice/day. Again, the active metabolites thing. I intend to taper to zero or near zero still dosing 3 times/day.

 

If your doctor doesn't want you to micro taper, would she consider a compromise, say cutting once/week instead of once/month? Whatever the method, you are going to have to dissolve.

 

When I crossed to L, I asked for and got all of my drug as 5mg capsules. I take part of my dose as a capsule and only have to dissolve part of my dose. I dissolve one 5mg capsule of L in 3mg of 80 proof vodka and add 97ml of water to make 100ml of solution. Then I pull and pitch my reduction and drink the rest.

 

So, why am I on Librium? Well, I didn't know all that stuff when I chose it. Also, I had been given one dose of it once in a hospital and did not have an adverse reaction to it. I've had very serious and life-threatening adverse reactions to so many meds that I was afraid to try a new drug. So I chose one I knew wouldn't kill me immediately. I am also a ultra-fast metabolizer of Valium. But I really don't know if that matters because they both break down to the same active metabolites. These metabolites are what make them both such slow benzos.

 

One thing to be sure your doctor understands is that you dissolve and take only part of the capsule, and the rest of the capsule is wasted. You need the script for the whole capsule. We have anonymous prescription drug surrender at our village hall. I can pitch my liquid into an empty gallon jug and when it is full, turn it in to the village for proper disposal. An addictions specialist may not like this at all. She may think you are trying to secretly store up meds to avoid getting off. Addicts do this. She will be always thinking about how to deal with an addict. You're not an addict.

 

Once in a great while I think how it would be so much simpler to taper V than L and wish I could cross over. But I consider the risk and change my mind.

 

And that's my 2 cents! I'm not an expert on anything but me, but I hope it helps.

Gard

 

[[be...]]

Morning to ( ALL ) just keep believing that we are still healing even while we hold and fight the I must taper faster to heal   

IMO it will just put you in a worse place,so ..... keep the faith ~CD

Hi CD    I robbed this off  one  Sista' Begoods thread's, ( Thanks Sista'  ) as I thought it was really appropriate  Motto regarding long hold's so am putting it here.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;

when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.

So long as mists envelop you, be still;

be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists

-- as it surely will.

Then act with courage.

 

Ponca Chief White Eagle (1800's to 1914) 

Thanks [glow=red,2,300]"Sista"[/glow] it was Cando, that steered me to Indian qoutes and the Animal Totems, so if not for CD I would not have found that quote and I love it, thanks for posting it here for all to see.