The Long Hold Support Group

[[lo...]]

Possible up dose and long hold, then a slow liquid taper.

 

If my doctor will allow it I want to go to 4mgs daily and micro taper, ever since 4mgs and under its need living hell

That should get you where you want to be IMO. I showed my doctor the long hold propaganda list when he was trying to rush me off. It worked great in helping him understand a slow taper is best. Good luck!  --V

 

Agreed! 

 

The original plan was he stopping half way that would have been 5mgs, holding for 6 month's to a year, but my doc got this complex aND started rushing me. So now my goal is stabilize and learn to live again, then micro taper. At my rare plan on telling my doctor I'm staying at 4mgs. If I can get them to play ball

[[Va...]]

Oooh if yall use my quote in anything fix it please lol! Typos and run ons. Or run offs! Benzo brain tries to type hahaha😜

It is fine...no worry.

That's what makes it real. 

[[Ca...]]

What a relief to see our mascots found their way home again.

I was afraid they had been lost to the crocodiles in Australia!

Apparently crocodiles here dont like feathers and shells... It was just a test nibble...

I am training them to eat the Bad Benzo Beaver, and his friends Doubt, Deceit and Dependence...

 

Some great support going on here, -its so uplifting to read... Wishing everyone the best...

Those of you that are making changes, I wish you every success as you move forward with strength and confidence...

 

Am doing ok, thus far, day 12-I think... fatigue wasnt factored in very well though... ooops..

 

Be Well..

[[He...]]

Dear all,

I don't know if any of you dear buddies are from the London area, or the Manchester area. But just wanted to say, my heart goes out to all the British Buddies....and to the world. It is just so upsetting to hear about the tragedies that have been occurring of late in your part of the world.

May a lasting peace return and terrorism be wiped out from the face of the earth. May god bless us all.

May you and all your loved ones be safe.

 

Heath

[[ga...]]

Possible up dose and long hold, then a slow liquid taper.

 

If my doctor will allow it I want to go to 4mgs daily and micro taper, ever since 4mgs and under its need living hell

That should get you where you want to be IMO. I showed my doctor the long hold propaganda list when he was trying to rush me off. It worked great in helping him understand a slow taper is best. Good luck!  --V

 

Agreed! 

 

The original plan was he stopping half way that would have been 5mgs, holding for 6 month's to a year, but my doc got this complex aND started rushing me. So now my goal is stabilize and learn to live again, then micro taper. At my rare plan on telling my doctor I'm staying at 4mgs. If I can get them to play ball

 

Many people don't tell their doctor they are tapering because they don't want to be rushed. Hope this works for you.

[[ga...]]

What a relief to see our mascots found their way home again.

I was afraid they had been lost to the crocodiles in Australia!

Apparently crocodiles here dont like feathers and shells... It was just a test nibble...

I am training them to eat the Bad Benzo Beaver, and his friends Doubt, Deceit and Dependence...

 

Some great support going on here, -its so uplifting to read... Wishing everyone the best...

Those of you that are making changes, I wish you every success as you move forward with strength and confidence...

 

Am doing ok, thus far, day 12-I think... fatigue wasnt factored in very well though... ooops..

 

Be Well..

 

Good to see you, Cant. Hope things go OK for you.

[[ga...]]

And that's it for me. Made it one month. Holding again if my doctor will let me. Have a small stash to get me through to my next appointment.

[[Va...]]

And that's it for me. Made it one month. Holding again if my doctor will let me. Have a small stash to get me through to my next appointment.

Hopefully your doc will be onboard. 

[[Ca...]]

And that's it for me. Made it one month. Holding again if my doctor will let me. Have a small stash to get me through to my next appointment.

Yes, hope Dr goes well... I think that you are confident in your method helps... I have found hey try to avoid lengthy "debates"... (for no serious reason)..

 

All is going well... yesterday turned rather bad, slept real well all night, woke up fine...

Drs today, so the drive sux...

 

Hope everyone is holding up ok...

[[ga...]]

And that's it for me. Made it one month. Holding again if my doctor will let me. Have a small stash to get me through to my next appointment.

Yes, hope Dr goes well... I think that you are confident in your method helps... I have found hey try to avoid lengthy "debates"... (for no serious reason)..

 

All is going well... yesterday turned rather bad, slept real well all night, woke up fine...

Drs today, so the drive sux...

 

Hope everyone is holding up ok...

Glad you slept well, Cant, and are feeling better. Bummer about the drive to the doctor. I hate that, too. Have put off so many appointments will probably get scolded for it.

[[He...]]

Hi, it's me, Heath,

I need some help.

I dont know what is happening.

It's the tenth day of my hold.

I cut .03 10 days ago.

 

I have been having achy pains in my forearms and hands fir about four days now.

The pain is on the top side of my hands and forearms, not on the bottom. But it's not just on the skin. It's definitely inside on the top side....hard to explain.

The pain is not like muscle pain at all. It's a continuous very bad ache. Not sharp pain, not shooting pain. Just continuous, terrible throbbing, aching pain.  I used to get pins and needles in this same place. But this is not pins and needles.

I have previously called it nerve pain but I don't really know what nerve pain is.

I don't know what it is!

 

Has anyone ever had this?  Am I describing "nerve pain"?  Or what else could it be? If you have had it, how long did it last?

I think It is most definitely a wdsx.  Heat helps but it just won't go away.

All I know is it seems to be getting worse. Last night it kept me awake. I had an awful night.

 

My husband suggested, and so I just took an alleve. Maybe that will help?

This is really bad!

 

Heath :-[

 

Please, I need all the suggestions you can give me.

[[Ca...]]

Hi Heath...

I have had a variety of nerve pains from damage related to a shattered pelvis (B3)

The main feeling like barbed wire being jerked through my bone, it was in intervals that lasted 3-8 seconds and were spaced anywhere between 5 to 30 seconds apart (longer as fading out) and would last from hours to a day or two, depending on gabapentin intake... high doses of gabapentin would stop it within an hour or two... -this is common nerve damage, but not what you describe...

 

Another less common pain was a steady building and fading burning type pain, very similar to a nasty ant bite, one of those toxic ants, way worse than a bee... again common, but not as u describe...

 

But when in the worst of CT type opiate WD, I would get extreme Restless Limb Syndrome (RLS), which many of us know through benzo WD, But when I got it especially bad from opiates it would hold and not be restless or eased by movment. Hard to explain, kinda like my limbs went solid inside, but being stretched at the same time. It didnt burn as such, but was one hell of an ache, -a bit like a hand or foot that had gone well beyond going to sleep, and the first stages of circulation before feeling or the pain set in.. yet still pain in a knowing but not feeling way, if that makes sense...

 

I think some of the problem with these meds is the interpritation of pain is messed up, even to the point that we can experience fantom pain that is non existant and/or mixed up...

Like me belting my foot and screaming like my toes were being pulled off with pliers, when the damage was up at my spine... I have no feeling in that foot, no matter the trauma i inflict...

 

Sorry I dont have an answer for you,  But my best guess would be a RLS type thing, brought on by WD...  -It is what they put me on valium for..

I hope this helps in some way...

 

Without promoting anything, things I might try...

Hot and cold on the site to determine effect and actual location.

TENS Machine.

Primary nerve pressure points for that limb.

Gabapentin or lyrica (check with Dr -interactions etc).

[[ga...]]

Hi Heath...

I have had a variety of nerve pains from damage related to a shattered pelvis (B3)

The main feeling like barbed wire being jerked through my bone, it was in intervals that lasted 3-8 seconds and were spaced anywhere between 5 to 30 seconds apart (longer as fading out) and would last from hours to a day or two, depending on gabapentin intake... high doses of gabapentin would stop it within an hour or two... -this is common nerve damage, but not what you describe...

 

Another less common pain was a steady building and fading burning type pain, very similar to a nasty ant bite, one of those toxic ants, way worse than a bee... again common, but not as u describe...

 

But when in the worst of CT type opiate WD, I would get extreme Restless Limb Syndrome (RLS), which many of us know through benzo WD, But when I got it especially bad from opiates it would hold and not be restless or eased by movment. Hard to explain, kinda like my limbs went solid inside, but being stretched at the same time. It didnt burn as such, but was one hell of an ache, -a bit like a hand or foot that had gone well beyond going to sleep, and the first stages of circulation before feeling or the pain set in.. yet still pain in a knowing but not feeling way, if that makes sense...

 

I think some of the problem with these meds is the interpritation of pain is messed up, even to the point that we can experience fantom pain that is non existant and/or mixed up...

Like me belting my foot and screaming like my toes were being pulled off with pliers, when the damage was up at my spine... I have no feeling in that foot, no matter the trauma i inflict...

 

Sorry I dont have an answer for you,  But my best guess would be a RLS type thing, brought on by WD...  -It is what they put me on valium for..

I hope this helps in some way...

 

Without promoting anything, things I might try...

Hot and cold on the site to determine effect and actual location.

TENS Machine.

Primary nerve pressure points for that limb.

Gabapentin or lyrica (check with Dr -interactions etc).

 

I agree with Cant. The meds mess up the way your brain interprets signals from your nervous system. I have read of all kinds of bizarre sensations on this forum.

I hope it settles down for you soon. 

[[Kg...]]

Heath I had those weird pains as well. What helped me  - along with taking a Tylenol I used either ice or a heating pad, and if that didn't work headed to a hot bath.  I also for the really bad pains got a TENS unit on Amazon - for some reason the nerve stimulation from the TENS broke the cycle of the awful pain.  I  believe  the pains are a s/x of your taper but if you are concerned there is no harm in seeing your doctor to make sure.

[[Va...]]

Heath, I get these terrible pains in my shoulders forearm and right leg at the hip. The best thing I've found is cold laser treatments. Sorry that you are suffering.  --V

[[He...]]

Cantfly, Gard, K-girl, valley,

 

Thanks so  much for your replies.

I guess it's very hard for you to explain these crazy pains as much as I. From your description, I'm still not quite sure if this is nerve pain at all. As you said, these benzos often cause us to interpret pain in in crazy ways.

 

I guess it's not as important to identify the pain with the correct name as it is to just find something to relieve the pain.  No matter what you call it, rightly or wrongly, the pain still is what it is!

 

So I guess I'll never know for sure what it is, but I will continue to use heat and take Alleve. Actually last night it did almost disappear for about two hours. Maybe it was a window. I don't know anymore.

 

I just hope it doesn't last too long because now that I an expetiencing it, I can honestly say, it is one of the most  bothersome and painful wdsx I have had.  Ha.... and I thought I'd had seen it all! I guess this is proof that it's nit over till it's over. Now I know why they say the last mg is the hardest.

        :'(

This has really got me down. And my sleep, which had been really good for the past 4-6 weeks, is totally back to inconsistent sleep and sometimes total insomnia.

 

But thanks again for your support. Your help , even when you may not really know for sure how to help, means so much to me. It's nice to know you are there and that you understand.

 

Heath 

 

[[ly...]]

Cantfly, Gard, K-girl, valley,

 

Thanks so  much for your replies.

I guess it's very hard for you to explain these crazy pains as much as I. From your description, I'm still not quite sure if this is nerve pain at all. As you said, these benzos often cause us to interpret pain in in crazy ways.

 

I guess it's not as important to identify the pain with the correct name as it is to just find something to relieve the pain.  No matter what you call it, rightly or wrongly, the pain still is what it is!

 

So I guess I'll never know for sure what it is, but I will continue to use heat and take Alleve. Actually last night it did almost disappear for about two hours. Maybe it was a window. I don't know anymore.

 

I just hope it doesn't last too long because now that I an expetiencing it, I can honestly say, it is one of the most  bothersome and painful wdsx I have had.  Ha.... and I thought I'd had seen it all! I guess this is proof that it's nit over till it's over. Now I know why they say the last mg is the hardest.

        :'(

This has really got me down. And my sleep, which had been really good for the past 4-6 weeks, is totally back to inconsistent sleep and sometimes total insomnia.

 

But thanks again for your support. Your help , even when you may not really know for sure how to help, means so much to me. It's nice to know you are there and that you understand.

 

Heath 

 

Heath,

 

Sorry about the pain and ramp-up.  I always expect a ramping after a cut (and almost always get one!).  I think it's easier when you are mentally prepared so things don't cause unnecessary worry or disappointment.  For me, stuff goes back down or away.  I hope yours make a quick retreat!

[[Al...]]

Heath,

 

I get those pains as well. I would describe as an ache as apposed to anything else. I get it on the tops of my forearms and it is usually accompanied by sore wrists and even sore or tight finger joints.

 

I believe it is all withdrawal. I have been getting it since dropping to 1.5 mg. not before. I also get all sorts of exaggerated muscle pains lately particularly in my shoulders, shoulder blades. At times my arms feel like they have no strength in them.

 

These exaggerated muscle pains I describe are I believe normal muscle fatigue from a recent use of the muscles but made to feel much worse than it really is.

It seems to me that in withdrawal all sorts of weird feeling can crop up that make no sense and can be scary if we let them.

When you read through the Ashton manual she describes these crazy feelings as altered sensations cuased probably from confused nerve impulses or such.

 

I know if I worry about them or fret over them for any length of time they get worse.

 

Also this is day ten as you say and this is the time you and I generally get our worse sxs. .03 mg. may sound like a small cut but from where you are right now it is a cut nonetheless and so just look at this as normal sxs from your cut.

 

Finally, I have been reading the DARE anti anxiety book lately and in it we are encouraged to not resist these sensations for it is in that resistance that even more amplification of sensation comes from as does duration. We have to accept them and distract. I have practiced this and it does really work.

The sxs will settle down when worry is not allowed to turn into fear.

 

What I found helpful for these type of skin or muscle sxs on my arms is something called Icyhot. Its a blue muscle gel ( I get it at the Dollar Store) it fools the brain or helps fool the brains misinterpretation of the sensation on the arms.

 

Try to do this and above all don't let these silly sensations scare you into thinking something more drastic is going on accept it in your mind by offering no resistance to it whatsoever, apply the cooling gel and distract, before long theses sxs will dissipate allow time to pass.

 

You will be fine, I am most certain of this.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU 🙏🏻

[[Ca...]]

Heath, just reading your sig, and the recent history of ur neck/shoulders, -if you havnt already, try some tlc, -a massage, warm bath or shower, hot/cold pack, gel, or whatever, up on your neck and shoulders too...

Days 10-13 are way worse for me post cut too...

 

I so hope your at the end of it, and my best guess says you are...

Distracting the nerves and yourself is great advice too...

I used the jets in a hot spa to do that... -but any way that works for you...

 

Best wishes...

[[ga...]]

Heath,

 

Finally, I have been reading the DARE anti anxiety book lately and in it we are encouraged to not resist these sensations for it is in that resistance that even more amplification of sensation comes from as does duration. We have to accept them and distract. I have practiced this and it does really work.

The sxs will settle down when worry is not allowed to turn into fear.

 

Try to do this and above all don't let these silly sensations scare you into thinking something more drastic is going on accept it in your mind by offering no resistance to it whatsoever, apply the cooling gel and distract, before long theses sxs will dissipate allow time to pass.

 

You will be fine, I am most certain of this.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU 🙏🏻

 

 

I also use a free app called Insight Timer which has guided body scans that teach acceptance and focus/realxation. I find having the calm voice guiding me is tremendously helpful when my benzo brain is jumping all over the place. Just search for "body scan" on it and listen to a few until you find one with a voice and style you like. I use it every day whether my symptoms are high or low.

[[Al...]]

Gard,

 

What an excellent meditation app. I have a few myself but just over an hour at this one. It's now my favourite.

Thanks for sharing this. 

 

ATU 🙏🏻

[[He...]]

Lynne,ATU, Cantfly, Gard,kgirl,  Valley,

Any wonderful buddy I forgot? You are included!

 

Thanks again for even more support. Yes I am hanging in. It is days 10 to 14 that usually are the killers and I am smack in the middle of it, so as you say, I am hoping these crazy pains will subside in a few days.

I'm just sitting at home with the microwaveable moist heat pads on my arms and chilling out as best as possible. I do find that when I am active and distract, it is not so bad. So I alternate, heat, activity, heat, activity, etc.

 

Another night with little sleep doesn't help but I imagine that will go away when these pains go away.

 

Ok so I'm guess it's time to quit my bellyaching!

 

I hope everyone who is having a hard time today will have some windows before the day us over.

 

Oh, and ATU , from your description of events, it sounds like your wdsx are very similar to mine in timing of their occurance in relation to your cuts.i guess that's bec Valium has a long half life? And yes mine are accompanied by wrist pain as well! That's really amazing bec you described what I am feeling better than I did! I see you are at 1.5 mg v, very close to my 1.02 v too. And yes, I also never got these pains until I was below 1.05 mg. Very similar. Does that mean it's NORMAL? Lol!

 

The lower I am, the harder it gets. I am definitely having to slow down my taper. I guess Lynne,Anne, Begood have the right idea alright!

 

And Lynne, just like you, I get some sort of wdsx with every cut, but up until lately they have been just manageable blips. But this one is a Yikes,OH MY GOSH!

Trying to be upbeat. Heath. 

[[ga...]]

Gard,

 

What an excellent meditation app. I have a few myself but just over an hour at this one. It's now my favourite.

Thanks for sharing this. 

 

ATU 🙏🏻

 

Amazing, isn't it? A counselor (who I didn't find useful for anything else) told me about it about. I have been in love with it ever since. I had been using Jon Kabat-Zinns' meditations, and still do, but this opened up so many other doors. There is something on there for everyone, secular or spiritual. There are podcasts, guided meditations that are neutral (just focusing on staying in the moment), guided meditations that lead you into exploring a topic such as forgiveness, and, of course, the timer for enhancing your unguided mediation. One session I listened to even sounded a bit like hypnosis. I didn't bookmark that one! I just figured out the timer portion, for which it's named, the other day. There are also discussion groups you can join, everything from beginner's questions, to Christian Contemplative prayer, to various Buddhist masters' teachings, to secular mediation discussions. So far I haven't paid for any of the add-ons and it is still everything I need in an app. 

[[ga...]]

Sorry this is so hard for you Heath. I'm hitting a rough patch, too. We'll get through this!

 

Gard

[[He...]]

Gard,

Thanks for the info about Inside Timer. I'm going to try it right now.

 

I'm sorry to hear that even slow cutting is giving you a hard time. IMO, your CNS is sure to calm down very soon And you will be able to proceed with out struggles. After all you have certainly held a long time. But as we know everyone is different. And these darn benzos just keep on giving! Hope you are back on Track in no time! Thinking about you and caring about you. Keep up the fight! 

 

Heath