The Long Hold Support Group

[[HO...]]

Why does it seem like most people liquid tight straight? Is the liquid volume you get at the pharmacy not very good?

[[Va...]]

How is everybody doing? Ive felt pretty darn good for about the past week until this morning. This nausea and anxiety is a killer.  Although im obviously far from stable, a week of feeling good is a pretty big accomplishment for me despite feeling like crap now.  Hoping that this may be a sign of some progress.  We shall see...

 

Much love

BJ

Great news BJ! I hope the wave passes quickly.  --V

[[Va...]]

Why does it seem like most people liquid tight straight? Is the liquid volume you get at the pharmacy not very good?

Are you talking about making our own solution vs getting the pharmacy solution? If so, I think for most f us it's easier to just make our own solution rather than trying to get a doctor to prescribe it. Sometimes they have something against prescribing the liquid benzo solution. The home made brew works just as well.  --V

[[Ch...]]

Thankyou Cantfly, for your input.

 

Interesting that a lot of people feel like they have te flu. I reckon it is a case f hitting tolerance plus maybe a-d s/x combined with the relentless wind. The east coast of the UK is no fun in a persistent northeasterly, even in May, I can tell you. I am still wearing winter clothing.  A lot of people seem to have persistent colds,  as the weather is essentially like early March except with brighter sunshine.

 

Colds aside, I am sure as hell I need to cut some meds to see if I can shift this fatigue a bit.

[[Ca...]]

Thankyou Cantfly, for your input.

 

Interesting that a lot of people feel like they have te flu. I reckon it is a case f hitting tolerance plus maybe a-d s/x combined with the relentless wind. The east coast of the UK is no fun in a persistent northeasterly, even in May, I can tell you. I am still wearing winter clothing.  A lot of people seem to have persistent colds,  as the weather is essentially like early March except with brighter sunshine.

 

Colds aside, I am sure as hell I need to cut some meds to see if I can shift this fatigue a bit.

lol my flu hit me mid summer in Australia, but it was winter for some...

There are probably as many reasons and variations as there are people, like most things benzo...

That was when the fatigue hit hard and is perhaps easing now a little... I think without the fatigue this would be a whole different monster... So I Hope you get better soon and the weather improves...It seems to be odd the world over..

[[...]]

I'm feeling so much worse the last couple of days .... 

I don't know what to do , my nervous system just seems so destabilized . I'm pretty sure things have got worse since I started liquidizing the 2 mgs mid April , but who knows if that's the cause .

I could go back to all dry pills, but not sure if that would cause further issues ....

 

Do I hold longer ? Updose ? I don't know , I know no one can tell me really what to do , but I'm pretty fed up ..... 

 

MiYu

[[...]]

And yes , that post from Jennifer Leigh was great thank you!

[[HO...]]

Why does it seem like most people liquid tight straight? Is the liquid volume you get at the pharmacy not very good?

Are you talking about making our own solution vs getting the pharmacy solution? If so, I think for most f us it's easier to just make our own solution rather than trying to get a doctor to prescribe it. Sometimes they have something against prescribing the liquid benzo solution. The home made brew works just as well.  --V

 

Yes sorry didn't spell check. My doctor said he would precise the liquid so I didn't know if I should take it.

[[HO...]]

How is everybody doing? Ive felt pretty darn good for about the past week until this morning. This nausea and anxiety is a killer.  Although im obviously far from stable, a week of feeling good is a pretty big accomplishment for me despite feeling like crap now.  Hoping that this may be a sign of some progress.  We shall see...

 

Much love

BJ

 

How long do you think you plan on holding?

[[Ki...]]

And yes , that post from Jennifer Leigh was great thank you!

Im sorry you are having a bad time MiYu. I wish I had a right answer for you but I sure hope you get to feeling better soon with whatever you decide to do. I see some people do feel better after updosing a bit but it seems more dont get relief with it. I sometimes go back to my last dose where I felt ok but mine is microtaper so its a tiny amount. I know you are frustrated- hope you get relief soon❤️

[[ly...]]

Why does it seem like most people liquid tight straight? Is the liquid volume you get at the pharmacy not very good?

Are you talking about making our own solution vs getting the pharmacy solution? If so, I think for most f us it's easier to just make our own solution rather than trying to get a doctor to prescribe it. Sometimes they have something against prescribing the liquid benzo solution. The home made brew works just as well.  --V

 

Yes sorry didn't spell check. My doctor said he would precise the liquid so I didn't know if I should take it.

 

I use the liquid RX.  Much easier than the mixing/dissolving imo.  I just dilute it with water 100:1 because each ML liquid xanax equals one MG.  Potent stuff.  I didn't have any issue going to the liquid.

[[ly...]]

I'm feeling so much worse the last couple of days .... 

I don't know what to do , my nervous system just seems so destabilized . I'm pretty sure things have got worse since I started liquidizing the 2 mgs mid April , but who knows if that's the cause .

I could go back to all dry pills, but not sure if that would cause further issues ....

 

Do I hold longer ? Updose ? I don't know , I know no one can tell me really what to do , but I'm pretty fed up ..... 

 

MiYu

 

Sorry you are feeling so bad MiYu.  Some do have a problem with the liquid and go back to dry.  I don't know why this is or what would cause it.  Of course it could be unrelated(?).  I wouldn't know what to advise but I sure hope things turn around soon.

[[...]]

Thanks Lynn and Kitty .....

Kitty , as a fast metabolizer , are you dry cutting? I have to look at your signature , I'll look and see ...I just wonder if using vodka speeds up the Valium metabolizm even more ..... Just not sure .

I suppose I could just try going back to all pills and see what happens ....I'm still going to hold... Once I reached 8 mgs, I was doing ok , not great , but better than I am now , and then I liquidized 2 mgs of my dose in preparation for when I do taper to get my body used to it. I'm just unstable now. I did try a tiny cut mid April from the liquid , I mean tiny , but when I realized I wasn't ready , I added right back in , after about 4 days I think. So who knows ..... All I know how to do right now is hold and wait and see, so frustrating though . I know if I could find a way to get stable I would be able to continue my taper , but I'm just not there by any stretch .

 

MiYu

[[...]]

So kitty , you don't say in your sig.... Are you dry cutting with a scale or using liquid , thanks!

Love, MiYu

[[be...]]

I'm feeling so much worse the last couple of days .... 

I don't know what to do , my nervous system just seems so destabilized . I'm pretty sure things have got worse since I started liquidizing the 2 mgs mid April , but who knows if that's the cause .

I could go back to all dry pills, but not sure if that would cause further issues ....

 

Do I hold longer ? Updose ? I don't know , I know no one can tell me really what to do , but I'm pretty fed up ..... 

 

MiYu

So sorry you are not doing well MiYu, I wish I could advise you, I will tell you something that I have learned since I have been holding, towards the end of my hold of one month, I tend to have more blips, nothing bad, but annoying. Well what I have found out is that when I start my taper again I seem to not have any blips, if I do they are so minor I can not call them a blip. So for me I know now that I can not hold for 2 months anymore as I started not feeling as good towards the last week or so, is this doable for you I do not know, but just wanted to throw this out. But if things should get bad, I would hold for 6 months if needed to be functional [meaning me] as I know nothing says that I will not have a hard time at anytime. This all being said, I have done these long holds and they work as I had a base line of stable now, never with the first two tapers. Stay Strong.

[[...]]

I'm feeling so much worse the last couple of days .... 

I don't know what to do , my nervous system just seems so destabilized . I'm pretty sure things have got worse since I started liquidizing the 2 mgs mid April , but who knows if that's the cause .

I could go back to all dry pills, but not sure if that would cause further issues ....

 

Do I hold longer ? Updose ? I don't know , I know no one can tell me really what to do , but I'm pretty fed up ..... 

 

MiYu

 

So sorry you are not doing well MiYu, I wish I could advise you, I will tell you something that I have learned since I have been holding, towards the end of my hold of one month, I tend to have more blips, nothing bad, but annoying. Well what I have found out is that when I start my taper again I seem to not have any blips, if I do they are so minor I can not call them a blip. So for me I know now that I can not hold for 2 months anymore as I started not feeling as good towards the last week or so, is this doable for you I do not know, but just wanted to throw this out. But if things should get bad, I would hold for 6 months if needed to be functional [meaning me] as I know nothing says that I will not have a hard time at anytime. This all being said, I have done these long holds and they work as I had a base line of stable now, never with the first two tapers. Stay Strong.

Thanks Begood, maybe it's time to try a cut and see..... I can always hold of things get bad from it....it has been my experience that I do get worse when I cut , but also I don't seem to be improving by holding either . So maybe I have to go through some ups and downs before I stabilize ....

So weird how your first two tapers were hard and this one is so much better for you ..... What a mystery how these meds effect us.

In some ways I have stabilized , in that each day is pretty predictable as far as being yucky! When I was really going through bad WDs , I had a lot more symptoms , now I just feel ill all the time. The burning never stops , and I have worsening brain fog....

Wish I could make a choice , I think I have to try something as I don't think I'm getting anywhere at the moment . I really don't want to get worse though.....

:smitten:

[[...]]

Begood.... Do you have any idea of what has been different for you in this last taper from the other two? Anything you can think of?

[[no...]]

Begood.... Do you have any idea of what has been different for you in this last taper from the other two? Anything you can think of?

Hi M I'm still rough and have had a lot of  environmental and emotional stress put on me over the last few weeks and especially this week  But I've been thinking that beofre I joined BB I used to hold indefinitely and not go to deep about why I was having symptoms as it obviously that my body hasn't got enough of the drug and needs to be able to catch up.

 

As Birdman another Buddy has said time and time again, if you were to gather up all the doses you cut down from in one go then it would equate a lot of missed doses your body is missing. Another way she put it is if you get hold of a supplement or some candy that's the same size as your pills and held them in your hands, you would physically be able to see probably 2 to 8 hundred or more missed doses that you've cut out.

 

I actually just calculated mine and in the 2 years I've been suffering its  2,469 pills now I can see that's a LOT of doses thousands?  And that's the amount your body is trying to get stabilised from, also that the longer you've been deficient in the amount where you weren't in withdrawal the longer it will take to stabilise, whether you updose or reinstate.

 

I was also long term at a high dose so that's another factor, but I have stabilised in the past after being in a mess by holding, and unfortunately I'm a now in a bigger mess than I've ever been in from cutting at Ashton's rates. But the one thing I do recall is I did have the burning in the past for along time it felt like forever and I was convinced that was it for life, and my anxiety went high like now and I was very depressed like now.

 

So some of the bad symptoms I have now I also had in the past from cutting too quick, not being aware it was Benzo withdrawal, others came along 2 years ago when I did the Ashton's cuts but even back then I knew to try cut any further while feeling like that was NOT the way to go so I did the only thing knew to do and that was hold.

 

The other problem about reading to much on here is when we see other peole making good progress while we're suffering we think that we're the ones with the problem and we're doing something wrong by holding and not recovering as quickly as others. Its the way the benzo withdrwal is is effecting our brains, my thinking exactly the same my frazzled brain keeps telling me to do something but a lot of the time doing nothing is the best thing to do and this is one of those times.

 

I also am keeping myself aware the each time it gets worse I decide I need to cut, and end up no better off or worse for doing it, that's another 'BB' ritual I've unfortunately got on long play in my brain I would never have even thought about it before I read around the forum its too much information overload as well it clouds our judgement.

 

So I have decided to stop doing the ''I must do something to stop this'' and do nothing until it does stop and yes its really, really hard but its got to be done, before I joined BB as I said there is no way I would have even thought about cutting I did up dosing, and even then had to hold for sometime before it helped. But mostly I held  where I was and was able to taper with  no symptoms or miniscule occasional ones that were absolutely no problem at all. 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

And one more thing it wasn't the hold that destabilised me it was the cut being too big or too soon every-time, when I cut after a long hold and holding long enough to enjoy not worry about tapering for a bit and the relief of no symptoms then I cut again until the cuts got too big and to frequent and that's what got me into trouble. The hold was what healed the problem not caused it, and I was doing great holding for a few months between each cut then cutting again, and I wish I could remember clearly how long I held the last time I hit a bad wall.

 

I know  it ran into months, it may have been 9 months or longer I just don't know. But I do know I was able to cut 1/2mg every 2 to 3 months  C+H dry cuts  with no problems, and if I had stuck to the way I had done it all along I would have been off by now or at least on the final piece. I wasn't aware that the holding long enough between cuts  was the reason I wasn't struggling with symptoms before.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[He...]]

I'm feeling so much worse the last couple of days .... 

I don't know what to do , my nervous system just seems so destabilized . I'm pretty sure things have got worse since I started liquidizing the 2 mgs mid April , but who knows if that's the cause .

I could go back to all dry pills, but not sure if that would cause further issues ....

 

Do I hold longer ? Updose ? I don't know , I know no one can tell me really what to do , but I'm pretty fed up ..... 

 

MiYu

 

 

 

MiYu,

I couldn't even begin to advise you on this, I just do not have enough experience. But you say thus all started when you went to liquidizing your pills.

Let me just say this...

 

Are you absolutely 100% sure you are measuring and liquidizing your pills accurately? And consistently?And are you shaking up the solution each time befote you use it.? It seems to me that your body should be used to the liquid by now?  Is there anyone who can check on your method of liquidizing your pills? Please excuse me if I am all wrong about this. I am just trying to find a way of helping you out here.

I am stymiedad just like you are.

 

I feel for you! I hope things improve quickly.

 

Also, just like Lynn, when I went to liquid, I used Roxane liquid. So easy! Just mix with water. I never used pills to make a liquid. It just seemed like the possibility of the pills not dissolving properly might  be a hindersnce.Could it be that the pills are not dissolving properly and the drug is not dispersed equally throughout your solution?

 

Just wondering about that.

 

Heath  

[[be...]]

I'm feeling so much worse the last couple of days .... 

I don't know what to do , my nervous system just seems so destabilized . I'm pretty sure things have got worse since I started liquidizing the 2 mgs mid April , but who knows if that's the cause .

I could go back to all dry pills, but not sure if that would cause further issues ....

 

Do I hold longer ? Updose ? I don't know , I know no one can tell me really what to do , but I'm pretty fed up ..... 

 

MiYu

 

So sorry you are not doing well MiYu, I wish I could advise you, I will tell you something that I have learned since I have been holding, towards the end of my hold of one month, I tend to have more blips, nothing bad, but annoying. Well what I have found out is that when I start my taper again I seem to not have any blips, if I do they are so minor I can not call them a blip. So for me I know now that I can not hold for 2 months anymore as I started not feeling as good towards the last week or so, is this doable for you I do not know, but just wanted to throw this out. But if things should get bad, I would hold for 6 months if needed to be functional [meaning me] as I know nothing says that I will not have a hard time at anytime. This all being said, I have done these long holds and they work as I had a base line of stable now, never with the first two tapers. Stay Strong.

Thanks Begood, maybe it's time to try a cut and see..... I can always hold of things get bad from it....it has been my experience that I do get worse when I cut , but also I don't seem to be improving by holding either . So maybe I have to go through some ups and downs before I stabilize ....

So weird how your first two tapers were hard and this one is so much better for you ..... What a mystery how these meds effect us.

In some ways I have stabilized , in that each day is pretty predictable as far as being yucky! When I was really going through bad WDs , I had a lot more symptoms , now I just feel ill all the time. The burning never stops , and I have worsening brain fog....

Wish I could make a choice , I think I have to try something as I don't think I'm getting anywhere at the moment . I really don't want to get worse though.....

:smitten:

MiYu when I posted this I was referring to my experiences, and not trying to sway you over to cut before you are ready or stable, I must keep it real and not hide how I am doing, and why I am doing the things I do. I still think that fear, not accepting even when it is hard to give in or up, rushing and the other words I have trouted here remain true. So honestly you are going to have to decide what is best for you, I maybe should have worded my responds differently but it was getting late for me. Also you said it was weird that my first two were so bad and now this 3rd time is not, well that is real easy if you remember, or maybe you forgot, I was going too fast, cutting too much and basically doing all the things that long time sufferers do here fast and big cuts. I finally realized that I was either going to stay on Valium forever, or bite the bullet and try one more time, but with my own way, so I proceeded like a turtle and you are right this has been like night and day for me and for the better, holding and cutting really low has worked for me, and I do a ten day taper once a month at 5% and then hold for 1month and for me it is working fine. Just like many say here we all have to find the way that works for us, and again was referring to how it has been for me in my other post. I still believe it is going to be OK for you, but it may take longer for you to get stable. I will say after my 2nd failed taper, I held for a long time and just do not remember how long before I decided to proceed but I was feeling stable at the time I started 3rd taper. Stay Strong.

[[ly...]]

 

 

MiYu,

 

I'll echo Nova to some extent.  I started my taper almost a year before I found BB.  I made extremely large cuts at the beginning and was very bad off.  I held - first for 3 months as it took that long after my first cut to get in any shape to cut again.  After the second cut I held for 8 months.  I felt no pressure to cut and believed that I needed a long period of time to recover from those cuts.  This was just common sense and something I didn't even discuss with my pdoc  (I had figured out for myself that the xanax was causing my problems and I needed to get off it).  With the holds things started to get better and better.  I truly don't remember exactly how that went or when and what dropped off - only that by the end of the year I was well enough to go back at it.

 

It was coming here and reading/being told of tolerance wd that  panicked me into racing the next few months - with bad results.  I found the Long Hold Support Group after I had decided to hold once again.  I knew already that long holds worked for me and after thinking about my prior experience I realized that the talk of tolerance certainly did not apply to me.  Holds to allow adjustment and recovery were a necessary part of my taper.  I would get off when I got off and allow my body to dictate things.

 

This doesn't mean that I don't sometimes get caught up in looking at others getting off much quicker and I do have the occasional doubt about whether I am doing the right thing here.  I sometimes have to have a talk with myself about this - but not often these days.  I've found my path.

[[no...]]

And one more thing it wasn't the hold that destabilised me it was the cut being too big or too soon every-time, when I cut after a long hold and holding long enough to enjoy not worry about tapering for a bit and the relief of no symptoms then I cut again until the cuts got too big and to frequent and that's what got me into trouble. The hold was what healed the problem not caused it, and I was doing great holding for a few months between each cut then cutting again, and I wish I could remember clearly how long I held the last time I hit a bad wall.

 

I know  it ran into months, it may have been 9 months or longer I just don't know. But I do know I was able to cut 1/2mg every 2 to 3 months  C+H dry cuts  with no problems, and if I had stuck to the way I had done it all along I would have been off by now or at least on the final piece. I wasn't aware that the holding long enough between cuts  was the reason I wasn't struggling with symptoms before.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

Hi all, I just rang the Bristol tranquilliser project, and spoke to a chap there  and explained about all my circumstances updose included, and he said what I already said and that was to keep holding at the dose your now on if your unstable don't attempt to cut until you stabilise different people take different time scales to stabilise. Just because one person is fine  within a certain time scale does not mean everyone should be within that range, and its usually months not weeks before  lots of people stabilise, its normal not abnormal for some to take longer than others.

 

 

Not that I asked him, but he also said that holding my updose  will not have caused any harm, and neither will holding it for as long as it takes to get stabilised. And you will know  when your ready to cut rather than doing it in panic mode trying to stop the symptoms as it will obviously make it worse, and it will take sometime if you been unstable for a long time. He also said they handle a LOT of peole who were cutting at Ashton's rates and it was way too fast, and they recommanded no more than 1/2 MG  or even less cut  at the very minimum 4 weeks, and two to three months is even better. 

 

 

Anyway top and bottom is this pick a dose don't keep going up an down, an don't even think about cutting while unstable then hold at that dose for however long it takes to stabilises and then hold for a while not just a few days or a week beofre you cut again and hold and wait for each blip to pass . Man!! talk about unpredictable, and non linear, early on I went hurting and anxious early this morning to feeling calm, an at peace with myself and the world calm and in control, now I've flipped back the opposite to very anxious, certain things revving up, and feeling a bit paranoid again. But that's how it goes  with this stabilising stuff, roil on sweet stability!!

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[be...]]

And one more thing it wasn't the hold that destabilised me it was the cut being too big or too soon every-time, when I cut after a long hold and holding long enough to enjoy not worry about tapering for a bit and the relief of no symptoms then I cut again until the cuts got too big and to frequent and that's what got me into trouble. The hold was what healed the problem not caused it, and I was doing great holding for a few months between each cut then cutting again, and I wish I could remember clearly how long I held the last time I hit a bad wall.

 

I know  it ran into months, it may have been 9 months or longer I just don't know. But I do know I was able to cut 1/2mg every 2 to 3 months  C+H dry cuts  with no problems, and if I had stuck to the way I had done it all along I would have been off by now or at least on the final piece. I wasn't aware that the holding long enough between cuts  was the reason I wasn't struggling with symptoms before.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

Hi all, I just rang the Bristol tranquilliser project, and spoke to a chap there  and explained about all my circumstances updose included, and he said what I already said and that was to keep holding at the dose your now on if your unstable don't attempt to cut until you stabilise different people take different time scales to stabilise. Just because one person is fine  within a certain time scale does not mean everyone should be within that range, and its usually months not weeks before  lots of people stabilise, its normal not abnormal for some to take longer than others.

 

 

Not that I asked him, but he also said that holding my updose  will not have caused any harm, and neither will holding it for as long as it takes to get stabilised. And you will know  when your ready to cut rather than doing it in panic mode trying to stop the symptoms as it will obviously make it worse, and it will take sometime if you been unstable for a long time. He also said they handle a LOT of peole who were cutting at Ashton's rates and it was way too fast, and they recommanded no more than 1/2 MG  or even less cut  at the very minimum 4 weeks, and two to three months is even better. 

 

 

Anyway top and bottom is this pick a dose don't keep going up an down, an don't even think about cutting while unstable then hold at that dose for however long it takes to stabilises and then hold for a while not just a few days or a week beofre you cut again and hold and wait for each blip to pass . Man!! talk about unpredictable, and non linear, early on I went hurting and anxious early this morning to feeling calm, an at peace with myself and the world calm and in control, now I've flipped back the opposite to very anxious, certain things revving up, and feeling a bit paranoid again. But that's how it goes  with this stabilising stuff, roil on sweet stability!!

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[glow=red,2,300]"SISTA"[/glow] agree completely if you are not stable the hold has to be longer and that has helped me so much, my Journey is just a series of small blips on occasion and I know it is because I  held to stabilize when I started the third taper and it has been a win win for me. But I know it may be hard to do, but hey nothing ventured is nothing gained. Thanks a again for sharing and letting us know of your talk with BTP. Hugs  :smitten:

[[ly...]]

 

 

That's very reassuring Nova.  Do you think that maybe, just maybe these people KNOW what they are talking about??