The Long Hold Support Group

April 26, 2017

Sorry you are feeling bad today Bluepill hope you feel better soon .....

Is anyone here using milk for their Valium titration? I can't drink regular milk , but wondering if a nut milk would work ok..... Seems as long as the fat content is there then the V will dissolve.... It's probably not an issue until I start reducing , as I'll take the whole 2 mg liquid anyway....just wondering if fat solution might be better than vodka ...
MiYu
Ps I have peroused the liquid titration forums , but still not sure how to proceed

I dilute 10mg at a time. I use five 2mg pills and dilute with 20ml of PG and 80ml of water. Each ml contains .1mg of Valium. It's pretty easy to taper using a 10ml and 1ml syringe. You can make very small cuts and you don't have to "toss" any of the solution away. Hope that helps. --V

Thanks Valley , yeah.... I have a clear plan on how to reduce , it's just that I don't feel well enough to taper , and I'm not sure if it's taking more of my daily dose in liquid , so that's really my question... Is the increased dose in liquid form affecting my symptoms

MiYu

April 26, 2017

Sorry you are feeling bad today Bluepill hope you feel better soon .....

Is anyone here using milk for their Valium titration? I can't drink regular milk , but wondering if a nut milk would work ok..... Seems as long as the fat content is there then the V will dissolve.... It's probably not an issue until I start reducing , as I'll take the whole 2 mg liquid anyway....just wondering if fat solution might be better than vodka ...
MiYu
Ps I have peroused the liquid titration forums , but still not sure how to proceed

I dilute 10mg at a time. I use five 2mg pills and dilute with 20ml of PG and 80ml of water. Each ml contains .1mg of Valium. It's pretty easy to taper using a 10ml and 1ml syringe. You can make very small cuts and you don't have to "toss" any of the solution away. Hope that helps. --V

Thanks Valley , yeah.... I have a clear plan on how to reduce , it's just that I don't feel well enough to taper , and I'm not sure if it's taking more of my daily dose in liquid , so that's really my question... Is the increased dose in liquid form affecting my symptoms
MiYu

It may have a minor effect but should pass in a week or 2 as your body adjusts to the liquid. I only noticed a slight increase in anxiety when switching over. --V

April 26, 2017

Hey Heath,

I hope you are feeling better today and that the stress of the upcoming colonoscopy isn't causing you to have worse w/d sxs.

I like what blue had to say about getting up and writing down your negative thoughts. I would add that you might want to add positive counter thoughts at the end. I used that method in CBT and it worked wonders for changing the way I was thinking. It leaves you with the positive thoughts

I had a combo of an endoscopy and colonoscopy done about 11 years ago, it was like being put on a spit over a fire having them go in from both directions, LOL. I woke up in the middle of it. I thought it was really cool to be able to see the inside of my colon. They even took a biopsy which only felt like a small pinch. They did put me back under after I started asking questions I wonder if they were disturbed by a talkative and curious patient

My doctor wants me to have another colonoscopy done as I'm now of age. I have two issues. One I have severe agoraphobia and find it difficult to leave the house for anything and I can't imagine having the fear of the IV added to that. Yes, I'm a big chicken when it comes to the IV's. Two, I am concerned about how the purging of the bowels will affect the taper. I take meds at bed time and first thing in the morning. I dissolve my clonazepam in cashew milk. Would the laxative even allow the medications I'm taking, all of them, to get into the bloodstream to prevent w/d sxs?

My father-in-law died from colon cancer because he never got a colonoscopy. He was in his late sixties when he developed sxs from the cancer and by that time it was too late. Colonoscopies are super important. Just makes sure they clean those scopes with the right cleansing agents!! I go to the VA and there was a big issue awhile back about that at one of the hospitals. Fortunately not the one I go to

Anyway, good luck Heath. I'm sure everything will "come out" just fine

MiYu, I don't use valium but from what I understand it is also fat soluble like clonazepam is and I use a nut milk (Cashew Milk) to dissolve my pills. It works wonderfully. I've been doing it since September.

Hope everyone is having a good day.

Hugs and healing

T

April 26, 2017

Sorry you are feeling bad today Bluepill hope you feel better soon .....

Is anyone here using milk for their Valium titration? I can't drink regular milk , but wondering if a nut milk would work ok..... Seems as long as the fat content is there then the V will dissolve.... It's probably not an issue until I start reducing , as I'll take the whole 2 mg liquid anyway....just wondering if fat solution might be better than vodka ...
MiYu
Ps I have peroused the liquid titration forums , but still not sure how to proceed

I dilute 10mg at a time. I use five 2mg pills and dilute with 20ml of PG and 80ml of water. Each ml contains .1mg of Valium. It's pretty easy to taper using a 10ml and 1ml syringe. You can make very small cuts and you don't have to "toss" any of the solution away. Hope that helps. --V

Thanks Valley , yeah.... I have a clear plan on how to reduce , it's just that I don't feel well enough to taper , and I'm not sure if it's taking more of my daily dose in liquid , so that's really my question... Is the increased dose in liquid form affecting my symptoms
MiYu

It may have a minor effect but should pass in a week or 2 as your body adjusts to the liquid. I only noticed a slight increase in anxiety when switching over. --V

Ok.... I think I'm just really sensitive to any changes...... I had a really strong increase in anxiety for a couple of days ....that chemical feeling anxiety, which I don't often get.... I had waves and waves of it for a couple of days. It's better now , but I've been very weak and fragile ....lead legs and shaky etc I'm thinking it is the switch to more liquid . Will give it more time ....

MiYu

April 26, 2017

I need some feedback.....please .
The last four or five days have been very rough.. Something changed and I feel really bad ,mvery weak and fragile. I don't think it's catch up from cutting , it could be a cycle of a wave , but it feels different and it's not letting up.
I am wondering if it's because I switched 2 mgs of my eve dose to liquid to prepare for when I am ready to taper again. I am using 2 mls vodka per 2 mgs Valium. I was ok before I think when I could just take the 1/4 mg in liquid , but now I'm at an even 8 , I have to dissolve a full pill and take all that in liquid.
I know Heath suggested compound , but I don't knwo if I can get it in enough dilution to make the tiny cuts I need to make? Or can I dilute that myself , with almond oil or something ? It'd be a lot of almond oil to swallow every day! It's also expensive , tho I'd spend the money if it worked .
I'm reluctant to try PG for diluting , tho I suppose 2 mls a day of the stuff might be ok . I'm very sensitive to all kinds of things now though.
Perhaps i should get some PG and try it , in case it's the vodka?
Or can I make my own almond oil solution? Anyone try this?
I do let the vodka with the pill in it sit open all day so the alcohol airs off . And actually , I took an alcohol tincture a couple of months back when I had a kidney stone , and it disnt see, to cause me problems .... So I don't know ?
I wonder if chemically the alcohol changes something about the Valium ?

Lots of questions!
Hope everyone is doing well , or coping well if dealing with difficult symptoms .
Love, MiYu

Ps , yes , I agree this is the best group of buddies! I feel safe here and know I won't get bad advice , it feels like a mature, experienced and caring group of people , very grateful to you all

Miyu, I dont know where you live. I live in USA. The liquid Valium I was referring to is called liquid Diazapam 5ml/5mg ( which is the same as 1ml to 1mg.) The liquid the pharmacy gives you is measured in ml ( millimeters) but one ml is the same as one mg.

The manufacturer is ROXANE

So if you are on 10 mg diazapam( Valium) it's the same as 10 mg . The words ML and MG are interchangeable in this case.

But you don't take it right out of the bottle. You make a 10:1 solution with water.

If you mix 90 ml of water with 10 ml of Valium you will have a solution that is watered down and much easier to measure accurately. It will be a 10:1 solution.

So if you were on a dose of 1mg of Valium, you would use a 10ml syringe and fill it to the top of the syringe, and you would actually only be taking 1 ml (1mg)

If you were taking say 1 mg Valium, and you wanted to decrease your dose by .02

You would a use a 10 ml syringe and fill it the 9.8 line on the syringe. Because you are using a 10:1 solution, the 9.8 line on the syringe would really be .98

You can get it even more accurate by using 10 ml syringes and 1 ml syringes to measure out your dose.

I beleve it was Builder, Valley and Anne who helped me understand. I hope they will chime in here Because I understand it, but I am having a hard time explaining it.

It is much easier and much more accurate to titrate down if you use a 10:1 water solution with the liquid valium.

I understand it and I have been using it since last July.

I only gave you a dash of what it is all about because, as much as I try, I am just not good at explaining all the the details

So if you want to try it, I strongly suggest that you get more information from someone who can explain it better than me, MUCH BETTER THAN ME! , like Anne or Valley or Builder .

Good look my friend. I wish you peace and healing in a hurry!

Heath

April 26, 2017

I need some feedback.....please .
The last four or five days have been very rough.. Something changed and I feel really bad ,mvery weak and fragile. I don't think it's catch up from cutting , it could be a cycle of a wave , but it feels different and it's not letting up.
I am wondering if it's because I switched 2 mgs of my eve dose to liquid to prepare for when I am ready to taper again. I am using 2 mls vodka per 2 mgs Valium. I was ok before I think when I could just take the 1/4 mg in liquid , but now I'm at an even 8 , I have to dissolve a full pill and take all that in liquid.
I know Heath suggested compound , but I don't knwo if I can get it in enough dilution to make the tiny cuts I need to make? Or can I dilute that myself , with almond oil or something ? It'd be a lot of almond oil to swallow every day! It's also expensive , tho I'd spend the money if it worked .
I'm reluctant to try PG for diluting , tho I suppose 2 mls a day of the stuff might be ok . I'm very sensitive to all kinds of things now though.
Perhaps i should get some PG and try it , in case it's the vodka?
Or can I make my own almond oil solution? Anyone try this?
I do let the vodka with the pill in it sit open all day so the alcohol airs off . And actually , I took an alcohol tincture a couple of months back when I had a kidney stone , and it disnt see, to cause me problems .... So I don't know ?
I wonder if chemically the alcohol changes something about the Valium ?

Lots of questions!
Hope everyone is doing well , or coping well if dealing with difficult symptoms .
Love, MiYu

Ps , yes , I agree this is the best group of buddies! I feel safe here and know I won't get bad advice , it feels like a mature, experienced and caring group of people , very grateful to you all

Miyu, I dont know where you live. I live in USA. The liquid Valium I was referring to is called Diazapam 5ml/5mg ( which is the same as 1ml to 1mg. The liquid the pharmacy gives you is measured in ml ( millimeters) but one ml is the same as one mg.
The manufacturer is ROXANE

So if you are on 10 mg diazapam( Valium) it's the sane as measuring 10 ml.

But you don't take it right out of the bottle. You make a 10:1 solution with water.

If you mix 90 ml of water with 10 ml of Valium you will have a solution that is watered down
So if you were on a dose of 10 mg of Valium, you would take the entire solution.

If you were taking only say 2 mg Valium, you would take 20 mg f the solution.

If you were on say 8 mg and wanted to decrease your dose by say .02 you would take 7.8 mg of the liquid solution.

Thanks Heath , so you can dilute the compound then... Good to know. Can you tell if yours is in oil? Does it say the ingredients on the bottle?

:smitten:

April 27, 2017

MiYu, I have no idea what the make up of the Roxane liquid Valium is. All I know is it can be diluted with plain water.

You don't need vodka, or almond milk, or any milk or any of that glycol stuff.

When I started with the 10:1 solution, I was a very happy camper. Some people who are on pretty big doses stay with pills for most of their dose and then use the liquid to finish off the part of the dose that is a fraction ( or a small percentage cut).

For example,

A 9.4 dose might be one 5 mg pill. Two 2 mg pills

and using a 10:1 liquid solution, pull-up .4 mg at the 4 line with a one ml syringe. Sounds confusing but it's really not. The liquid is what makes the fraction dosing very accurate so you can decrease your dose by small percentages.

Hope that makes sense.

But if you are comfortable with what you are doing now, that is fine.

Heath

Oh and thanks for the kind words for my procedure. I'm sure it will go just fine. $:-\$ hope so!

April 27, 2017

Hey Heath,

I hope you are feeling better today and that the stress of the upcoming colonoscopy isn't causing you to have worse w/d sxs.

I like what blue had to say about getting up and writing down your negative thoughts. I would add that you might want to add positive counter thoughts at the end. I used that method in CBT and it worked wonders for changing the way I was thinking. It leaves you with the positive thoughts

I had a combo of an endoscopy and colonoscopy done about 11 years ago, it was like being put on a spit over a fire having them go in from both directions, LOL. I woke up in the middle of it. I thought it was really cool to be able to see the inside of my colon. They even took a biopsy which only felt like a small pinch. They did put me back under after I started asking questions I wonder if they were disturbed by a talkative and curious patient

My doctor wants me to have another colonoscopy done as I'm now of age. I have two issues. One I have severe agoraphobia and find it difficult to leave the house for anything and I can't imagine having the fear of the IV added to that. Yes, I'm a big chicken when it comes to the IV's. Two, I am concerned about how the purging of the bowels will affect the taper. I take meds at bed time and first thing in the morning. I dissolve my clonazepam in cashew milk. Would the laxative even allow the medications I'm taking, all of them, to get into the bloodstream to prevent w/d sxs?

My father-in-law died from colon cancer because he never got a colonoscopy. He was in his late sixties when he developed sxs from the cancer and by that time it was too late. Colonoscopies are super important. Just makes sure they clean those scopes with the right cleansing agents!! I go to the VA and there was a big issue awhile back about that at one of the hospitals. Fortunately not the one I go to

Anyway, good luck Heath. I'm sure everything will "come out" just fine

MiYu, I don't use valium but from what I understand it is also fat soluble like clonazepam is and I use a nut milk (Cashew Milk) to dissolve my pills. It works wonderfully. I've been doing it since September.

Hope everyone is having a good day.

Hugs and healing
T

Hi T,

i once woke up during a colonoscopy for about two seconds. I remember waking up but nothing else, no pain or anything.

Thanks for the kind good luck wishes. Hope you ar doing ok today,

Heath

April 27, 2017

Now I want to get a colonoscopy! I don't want to miss out on all the fun!

Hey V....you feelin alright?

April 27, 2017

MiYu, I have no idea what the make up of the Roxane liquid Valium is. All I know is it can be diluted with plain water.
You don't need vodka, or almond milk, or any milk or any of that glycol stuff.

When I started with the 10:1 solution, I was a very happy camper. Some people who are on pretty big doses stay with pills for most of their dose and then use the liquid to finish off the part of the dose that is a fraction ( or a small percentage cut).
For example,
A 9.4 dose might be one 5 mg pill. Two 2 mg pills
and using a 10:1 liquid solution, pull-up .4 mg at the 4 line with a one ml syringe. Sounds confusing but it's really not. The liquid is what makes the fraction dosing very accurate so you can decrease your dose by small percentages.

Hope that makes sense.
But if you are comfortable with what you are doing now, that is fine.

Heath

Oh and thanks for the kind words for my procedure. I'm sure it will go just fine. $:-\$ hope so!

Thanks Heath .... It's always hard to explain these things on ' paper' . Some people learn this way , I'm a hands on learner myself , istvthebonlybwaybo cam get it in my brain, by direct experience .

I'm getting th picture though. And knowing that the compound liquid can be diluted is good .

I have been doing ok with the liquid I made myself as far as measuring ... I have all the syringes , ml container etc. I just have to figure out what kind of pace I can go at , when I'm ready , and I'm not yet. So I'm sure I will have more questions when I get to that point . Maybe I'll adapt to the vodka ok , will see ..... Then I can just make my own liquid.

There's a compounding pharmacy that my doc uses that makes up Valium in almond oil , just those two ingredients . I need to call them and see if it can be diluted , or whether they can add soemthing that would make it possible to dilute , some kind of solvent probably ....

When's the big day ?

I'm sure it'll go fine .....

Love, MiYu

April 27, 2017

I need some feedback.....please .
The last four or five days have been very rough.. Something changed and I feel really bad ,mvery weak and fragile. I don't think it's catch up from cutting , it could be a cycle of a wave , but it feels different and it's not letting up.
I am wondering if it's because I switched 2 mgs of my eve dose to liquid to prepare for when I am ready to taper again. I am using 2 mls vodka per 2 mgs Valium. I was ok before I think when I could just take the 1/4 mg in liquid , but now I'm at an even 8 , I have to dissolve a full pill and take all that in liquid.
I know Heath suggested compound , but I don't knwo if I can get it in enough dilution to make the tiny cuts I need to make? Or can I dilute that myself , with almond oil or something ? It'd be a lot of almond oil to swallow every day! It's also expensive , tho I'd spend the money if it worked .
I'm reluctant to try PG for diluting , tho I suppose 2 mls a day of the stuff might be ok . I'm very sensitive to all kinds of things now though.
Perhaps i should get some PG and try it , in case it's the vodka?
Or can I make my own almond oil solution? Anyone try this?
I do let the vodka with the pill in it sit open all day so the alcohol airs off . And actually , I took an alcohol tincture a couple of months back when I had a kidney stone , and it disnt see, to cause me problems .... So I don't know ?
I wonder if chemically the alcohol changes something about the Valium ?

Lots of questions!
Hope everyone is doing well , or coping well if dealing with difficult symptoms .
Love, MiYu

Ps , yes , I agree this is the best group of buddies! I feel safe here and know I won't get bad advice , it feels like a mature, experienced and caring group of people , very grateful to you all

Hi MiYu. The general rule of thumb for making a solution with benzos is to use 2ml of alcohol or PG for each mg of the drug. If you are diluting a 2mg pill, you would want to use 4ml of alcohol or PG. the tiny amount of alcohol shouldn't be a concern at all as it is a tiny amount. --V

Thanks Valley , I guess I'm not using enough vodka then , Iv been using 1:1 vodka to Valium , not 2:1 ....I just put 2 mgs into hazelnut milk..... Will drink that tonight and see what happens!
Then I guess I'll try the 2:1 vodka and see how I do. I wonder if this is affecting my taper and why I can't seem to move forwards, aside from the need to stabilize , which I do need to find a way to do....

Hi M

while your holding change nothing as your destabilise CNS is still sensitive to change, forget about what your going to do when you begin your taper sort that bit out when its time ,, there is no need to be doing anything with your pills now. I have to cut mine as I'm need 5.1/2mg to get the 1/2mg and was thinking about liquidising the one pill but for the same reason as I'm telling you decided against it.

Also the last time I got stabilised by myself before I joined BB I had to do the same thing then anyway, cut 1/2 to go with the rest of my dose I was holding, your taking whole pills so its easier but even my cut ones worked out okay in the past. To get stable you have to remain stable Stable Not subject to sudden or extreme change or fluctuation: Maintaining equilibrium; . Consistent Resistant to change of position . Any changes before our CNS is stable will create flux continuous change; instability, just hold, we will get there eventually we just have to wait it out, no clock no calendar

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

I've just finished an 8 month hold which made a huge difference to my ability to taper well. I'm also on effexor, and previously had trouble with drops of 1.3% monthly (even when split into 4 micro-drops over the month). Now I am able to taper by about 4% monthly, with barely any symptoms at all. I feel loads better, and much more positive about tapering in general.

Holding is hard work (I've said this so much lately!) Holding is healing - it's during the long holds that the healing takes place, not during the frantic grasping for something to help with symptoms - but during the holding.

You can do this!

. I was starting to experience some decent relief and picked up my cuts recently but, no luck. My baseline isn't the greatest but I am getting partial windows again and I'm just convinced that the only way down is doing a sensible symptom-based taper and to throw out the calendar.

Someone on here with Valium knowledge will hopefully pop in and give you tips on this. Your cuts may be catching up with you and perhaps a long hold may help. I'll say this again, the only way I was able to taper this far was with some long holds to settle my nervous system after trying to cut at the Ashton rate. Cutting through bad symptoms only lengthened my suffering.

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

April 27, 2017

I need some feedback.....please .
The last four or five days have been very rough.. Something changed and I feel really bad ,mvery weak and fragile. I don't think it's catch up from cutting , it could be a cycle of a wave , but it feels different and it's not letting up.
I am wondering if it's because I switched 2 mgs of my eve dose to liquid to prepare for when I am ready to taper again. I am using 2 mls vodka per 2 mgs Valium. I was ok before I think when I could just take the 1/4 mg in liquid , but now I'm at an even 8 , I have to dissolve a full pill and take all that in liquid.
I know Heath suggested compound , but I don't knwo if I can get it in enough dilution to make the tiny cuts I need to make? Or can I dilute that myself , with almond oil or something ? It'd be a lot of almond oil to swallow every day! It's also expensive , tho I'd spend the money if it worked .
I'm reluctant to try PG for diluting , tho I suppose 2 mls a day of the stuff might be ok . I'm very sensitive to all kinds of things now though.
Perhaps i should get some PG and try it , in case it's the vodka?
Or can I make my own almond oil solution? Anyone try this?
I do let the vodka with the pill in it sit open all day so the alcohol airs off . And actually , I took an alcohol tincture a couple of months back when I had a kidney stone , and it disnt see, to cause me problems .... So I don't know ?
I wonder if chemically the alcohol changes something about the Valium ?

Lots of questions!
Hope everyone is doing well , or coping well if dealing with difficult symptoms .
Love, MiYu

Ps , yes , I agree this is the best group of buddies! I feel safe here and know I won't get bad advice , it feels like a mature, experienced and caring group of people , very grateful to you all

Hi MiYu. The general rule of thumb for making a solution with benzos is to use 2ml of alcohol or PG for each mg of the drug. If you are diluting a 2mg pill, you would want to use 4ml of alcohol or PG. the tiny amount of alcohol shouldn't be a concern at all as it is a tiny amount. --V

Thanks Valley , I guess I'm not using enough vodka then , Iv been using 1:1 vodka to Valium , not 2:1 ....I just put 2 mgs into hazelnut milk..... Will drink that tonight and see what happens!
Then I guess I'll try the 2:1 vodka and see how I do. I wonder if this is affecting my taper and why I can't seem to move forwards, aside from the need to stabilize , which I do need to find a way to do....

Hi M while your holding change nothing as your destabilise CNS is still sensitive to change, forget about what your going to do when you begin your taper sort that bit out when its time ,, there is no need to be doing anything with your pills now. I have to cut mine as I'm need 5.1/2mg to get the 1/2mg and was thinking about liquidising the one pill but for the same reason as I'm telling you decided against it.

Also the last time I got stabilised by myself before I joined BB I had to do the same thing then anyway, cut 1/2 to go with the rest of my dose I was holding, your taking whole pills so its easier but even my cut ones worked out okay in the past. To get stable you have to remain stable Stable Not subject to sudden or extreme change or fluctuation: Maintaining equilibrium; . Consistent Resistant to change of position . Any changes before our CNS is stable will create flux continuous change; instability, just hold, we will get there eventually we just have to wait it out, no clock no calendar

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

I've just finished an 8 month hold which made a huge difference to my ability to taper well. I'm also on effexor, and previously had trouble with drops of 1.3% monthly (even when split into 4 micro-drops over the month). Now I am able to taper by about 4% monthly, with barely any symptoms at all. I feel loads better, and much more positive about tapering in general.

Holding is hard work (I've said this so much lately!) Holding is healing - it's during the long holds that the healing takes place, not during the frantic grasping for something to help with symptoms - but during the holding.

You can do this!

. I was starting to experience some decent relief and picked up my cuts recently but, no luck. My baseline isn't the greatest but I am getting partial windows again and I'm just convinced that the only way down is doing a sensible symptom-based taper and to throw out the calendar.

Someone on here with Valium knowledge will hopefully pop in and give you tips on this. Your cuts may be catching up with you and perhaps a long hold may help. I'll say this again, the only way I was able to taper this far was with some long holds to settle my nervous system after trying to cut at the Ashton rate. Cutting through bad symptoms only lengthened my suffering.

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

I just realised I said I have to cut a1/2mg, I actually only have 2mg pills so I have to cut 2 x 1mg then 1/2mg, as I take 3mg first dose, 1ng next dose then 1.1/2 mg at night. So I have to cut 2 pills a time to do my dose

I cut 1 pill into 2 x1 mg then quarter another to get 4X1/2mg, but I'm keeping to that regime I'm not changing nothing until I stabilise, then I'm going to hold for a good while end enjoy the stability and take a well needed rest from it all.

I will still get off eventually but I'm not going to push it for nothing while I'm in this state and I'm not rushing it when I feel better that's also another mistake not holding while feeling good long enough then tripping yourself up again back into hell when there's no need for it. You'll get off when you get off but get off feeling good not on the verge of hell for how ever long. This is a LOT worse that when I was in tolerance withdrwal on my full prescribed dose that was fun compared to this caused by cutting too much too fast

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

April 27, 2017

MiYu, I have no idea what the make up of the Roxane liquid Valium is. All I know is it can be diluted with plain water.
You don't need vodka, or almond milk, or any milk or any of that glycol stuff.

When I started with the 10:1 solution, I was a very happy camper. Some people who are on pretty big doses stay with pills for most of their dose and then use the liquid to finish off the part of the dose that is a fraction ( or a small percentage cut).
For example,
A 9.4 dose might be one 5 mg pill. Two 2 mg pills
and using a 10:1 liquid solution, pull-up .4 mg at the 4 line with a one ml syringe. Sounds confusing but it's really not. The liquid is what makes the fraction dosing very accurate so you can decrease your dose by small percentages.

Hope that makes sense.
But if you are comfortable with what you are doing now, that is fine.

Heath

Oh and thanks for the kind words for my procedure. I'm sure it will go just fine. $:-\$ hope so!

Here you are H

Roxanne .......

diazepam (Diazepam) solution

diazepam (Diazepam) solution, concentrate

[Roxane Laboratories, Inc.]

Rx only

DESCRIPTION

Each 5 mL of Oral Solution contains:

Diazepam........................................................... 5 mg

Each mL of IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains:

Diazepam............................................................ 5 mg

Alcohol................................................................ 19%

Inactive Ingredients:

The wintergreen-spice flavored 5 mg/5 mL Oral Solution contains bitterness modifier, citric acid, D&C Yellow No. 10, FD&C Red No. 40, flavoring, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium citrate, sorbitol, and water.

The 5 mg/mL IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains alcohol, D&C Yellow No. 10, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, succinic acid, and water.

Love Nova XXX :smitten:

April 27, 2017

Hi everyone,

I need to tell this account of what happened to me when I was put on Azithromycin.

I had been having a repeated cold/flu for 4 plus weeks and had been seeing Doc regular about it. He figured it would end and was probably viral do he only prescribed puffers. I have used the puffers before but the ones I had, had expired.

Any way after being on the puffers for a week and not getting any better I went back and saw him again. This time he prescribed Azithromycin. I never had it before so why not.

I looked it up on this site before taking it and most of what I read was good.

Well the first day nothing happened in a negative way and in fact about 5-6 hours after taking the first double dose, I was actually feeling better, less congested the chest pains associated were gone etc.

After taking the second dose on day 2 all hell broke loose. I was beside myself with anxiety and very very weak. Could hardly get out of bed. Muscles all noted up massive anxiety. But my cold/ flu was better.

I of course called my Doctors office and explained my situation and they said to stop it and they sent that same day for an X-ray. Still waiting on results.

I stopped taking it and day 3 was tough but now day 4 I am beginning to feel it is passing.

I don't know why but it some how pushed me over the very fine line of stability into shear anxiety.

Go figure?

I don't want to discourage anyone who may land upon this post in future searches for Azithromycin,

As I said it is not a drug on the no no list and many people said they took with no issue during and post taper. This is only my account.

Hope everyone is having a great day!

ATU 🙏

April 28, 2017

Hi everyone,
I need to tell this account of what happened to me when I was put on Azithromycin.

I had been having a repeated cold/flu for 4 plus weeks and had been seeing Doc regular about it. He figured it would end and was probably viral do he only prescribed puffers. I have used the puffers before but the ones I had, had expired.
Any way after being on the puffers for a week and not getting any better I went back and saw him again. This time he prescribed Azithromycin. I never had it before so why not.

I looked it up on this site before taking it and most of what I read was good.

Well the first day nothing happened in a negative way and in fact about 5-6 hours after taking the first double dose, I was actually feeling better, less congested the chest pains associated were gone etc.
After taking the second dose on day 2 all hell broke loose. I was beside myself with anxiety and very very weak. Could hardly get out of bed. Muscles all noted up massive anxiety. But my cold/ flu was better.
I of course called my Doctors office and explained my situation and they said to stop it and they sent that same day for an X-ray. Still waiting on results.

I stopped taking it and day 3 was tough but now day 4 I am beginning to feel it is passing.
I don't know why but it some how pushed me over the very fine line of stability into shear anxiety.

Go figure?

I don't want to discourage anyone who may land upon this post in future searches for Azithromycin,
As I said it is not a drug on the no no list and many people said they took with no issue during and post taper. This is only my account.

Hope everyone is having a great day!

ATU 🙏

I am sorry you had such a bad time, sounds like you had an adverse reaction to the drug, but who knows maybe the combination of the benzo and the Zitromax just did not jive, but glad you called Doctor and they are getting a Chest XRay, thinking this may be best to access and rule out everything. I had to take it once for bronchitis and did not have any problems and I was on 10mg of Valium, just can never know with medications and the effects. Stay Strong.

April 28, 2017

Hi everyone,
I need to tell this account of what happened to me when I was put on Azithromycin.

I had been having a repeated cold/flu for 4 plus weeks and had been seeing Doc regular about it. He figured it would end and was probably viral do he only prescribed puffers. I have used the puffers before but the ones I had, had expired.
Any way after being on the puffers for a week and not getting any better I went back and saw him again. This time he prescribed Azithromycin. I never had it before so why not.

I looked it up on this site before taking it and most of what I read was good.

Well the first day nothing happened in a negative way and in fact about 5-6 hours after taking the first double dose, I was actually feeling better, less congested the chest pains associated were gone etc.
After taking the second dose on day 2 all hell broke loose. I was beside myself with anxiety and very very weak. Could hardly get out of bed. Muscles all noted up massive anxiety. But my cold/ flu was better.
I of course called my Doctors office and explained my situation and they said to stop it and they sent that same day for an X-ray. Still waiting on results.

I stopped taking it and day 3 was tough but now day 4 I am beginning to feel it is passing.
I don't know why but it some how pushed me over the very fine line of stability into shear anxiety.

Go figure?

I don't want to discourage anyone who may land upon this post in future searches for Azithromycin,
As I said it is not a drug on the no no list and many people said they took with no issue during and post taper. This is only my account.

Hope everyone is having a great day!

ATU 🙏

I am sorry you had such a bad time, sounds like you had an adverse reaction to the drug, but who knows maybe the combination of the benzo and the Zitromax just did not jive, but glad you called Doctor and they are getting a Chest XRay, thinking this may be best to access and rule out everything. I had to take it once for bronchitis and did not have any problems and I was on 10mg of Valium, just can never know with medications and the effects. Stay Strong.

Thanks Begood,

It seems to me now that I am at this low dose that many things that never bothered me before are really bothering me now. Even when I would get mild seasonal allergies they would be nothing to worry about but this spring they have been like 10x worse.

You take care!

ATU 🙏👍

April 28, 2017

I'm wondering the same thing as t. Doesn't purging the digestive tract pre-colonoscopy kill your taper? Aren't you removing all of the benzo and sending yourself into w/d? If not, why not?

Gard

April 28, 2017

I'm wondering the same thing as t. Doesn't purging the digestive tract pre-colonoscopy kill your taper? Aren't you removing all of the benzo and sending yourself into w/d? If not, why not?

Gard

I think I read somewhere that benzo's are stored in our fat storage, I could be wrong, but sure I read that somewhere, benzo medication would have been absorbed, but it has to be somewhere. People who are working are drug tested, so it is there. I would not worry about it flushing out of the colon. Good to see you Gard.

:smitten:

April 28, 2017

Gardener99,

Thats is correct the Benzo is not stored in our colons although there are benzo receptersin there.

The colon cleanse will not hurt your taper. It will of course be uncomfortable at best but neccesary at least for a successful procedure. I have over and over again of how many people show up having done only a halfassed( no joke intended) job of the cleanse only to be sent home and have to do it again.

ATU 🙏

April 28, 2017

I need some feedback.....please .
The last four or five days have been very rough.. Something changed and I feel really bad ,mvery weak and fragile. I don't think it's catch up from cutting , it could be a cycle of a wave , but it feels different and it's not letting up.
I am wondering if it's because I switched 2 mgs of my eve dose to liquid to prepare for when I am ready to taper again. I am using 2 mls vodka per 2 mgs Valium. I was ok before I think when I could just take the 1/4 mg in liquid , but now I'm at an even 8 , I have to dissolve a full pill and take all that in liquid.
I know Heath suggested compound , but I don't knwo if I can get it in enough dilution to make the tiny cuts I need to make? Or can I dilute that myself , with almond oil or something ? It'd be a lot of almond oil to swallow every day! It's also expensive , tho I'd spend the money if it worked .
I'm reluctant to try PG for diluting , tho I suppose 2 mls a day of the stuff might be ok . I'm very sensitive to all kinds of things now though.
Perhaps i should get some PG and try it , in case it's the vodka?
Or can I make my own almond oil solution? Anyone try this?
I do let the vodka with the pill in it sit open all day so the alcohol airs off . And actually , I took an alcohol tincture a couple of months back when I had a kidney stone , and it disnt see, to cause me problems .... So I don't know ?
I wonder if chemically the alcohol changes something about the Valium ?

Lots of questions!
Hope everyone is doing well , or coping well if dealing with difficult symptoms .
Love, MiYu

Ps , yes , I agree this is the best group of buddies! I feel safe here and know I won't get bad advice , it feels like a mature, experienced and caring group of people , very grateful to you all

Hi MiYu. The general rule of thumb for making a solution with benzos is to use 2ml of alcohol or PG for each mg of the drug. If you are diluting a 2mg pill, you would want to use 4ml of alcohol or PG. the tiny amount of alcohol shouldn't be a concern at all as it is a tiny amount. --V

Thanks Valley , I guess I'm not using enough vodka then , Iv been using 1:1 vodka to Valium , not 2:1 ....I just put 2 mgs into hazelnut milk..... Will drink that tonight and see what happens!
Then I guess I'll try the 2:1 vodka and see how I do. I wonder if this is affecting my taper and why I can't seem to move forwards, aside from the need to stabilize , which I do need to find a way to do....

Hi M while your holding change nothing as your destabilise CNS is still sensitive to change, forget about what your going to do when you begin your taper sort that bit out when its time ,, there is no need to be doing anything with your pills now. I have to cut mine as I'm need 5.1/2mg to get the 1/2mg and was thinking about liquidising the one pill but for the same reason as I'm telling you decided against it.

Also the last time I got stabilised by myself before I joined BB I had to do the same thing then anyway, cut 1/2 to go with the rest of my dose I was holding, your taking whole pills so its easier but even my cut ones worked out okay in the past. To get stable you have to remain stable Stable Not subject to sudden or extreme change or fluctuation: Maintaining equilibrium; . Consistent Resistant to change of position . Any changes before our CNS is stable will create flux continuous change; instability, just hold, we will get there eventually we just have to wait it out, no clock no calendar

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

I've just finished an 8 month hold which made a huge difference to my ability to taper well. I'm also on effexor, and previously had trouble with drops of 1.3% monthly (even when split into 4 micro-drops over the month). Now I am able to taper by about 4% monthly, with barely any symptoms at all. I feel loads better, and much more positive about tapering in general.

Holding is hard work (I've said this so much lately!) Holding is healing - it's during the long holds that the healing takes place, not during the frantic grasping for something to help with symptoms - but during the holding.

You can do this!

. I was starting to experience some decent relief and picked up my cuts recently but, no luck. My baseline isn't the greatest but I am getting partial windows again and I'm just convinced that the only way down is doing a sensible symptom-based taper and to throw out the calendar.

Someone on here with Valium knowledge will hopefully pop in and give you tips on this. Your cuts may be catching up with you and perhaps a long hold may help. I'll say this again, the only way I was able to taper this far was with some long holds to settle my nervous system after trying to cut at the Ashton rate. Cutting through bad symptoms only lengthened my suffering.

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

Thanks Nova , as always

Good advice .... And yes , no point thinking about tapering yet, even tho the mind does insist on entertaining the idea when I feel so bad a lot .

I'm afraid it might be a bit too late for me NOT to have 2 mgs in liquid.... I've been doing it since April 14 th, two weeks..... Would have been better if I'd left it alone , and I am sure that's why I hit such a rough patch. Today was a little easier , so I'm hoping that if I just leave it now the way it is , 6 mgs dry, and 2 mgs liquid , I'm going to be ok , as long as I don't cut!

The quote of someone who was able to cut at 4% was very encouraging , after their long hold.

I hope my doc will be ok with it , I don't think he understands it , but I will trust if he's not ok I'll find someone else who is.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time

And I hope it gets better for you as soon as possible . You are a brave woman !

I do divide up my dose in the day with breaking up some dry pills , but it doesn't seem to make any difference if the breaks arent exact as long as I keep the same amount going through each day.

Where I am right now is where in the past I've thought, oh I'll try a little cut, not this time!! I want to feel much better than this before I start again....

Love , MiYu :smitten:

April 28, 2017

Gardener99,

Thats is correct the Benzo is not stored in our colons although there are benzo receptersin there.
The colon cleanse will not hurt your taper. It will of course be uncomfortable at best but neccesary at least for a successful procedure. I have over and over again of how many people show up having done only a halfassed( no joke intended) job of the cleanse only to be sent home and have to do it again.

ATU 🙏

ATU , I'm so sorry for what you had to go through with that drug.... I hope you will feel better and also that what you did take will have cleared up the infection ....keep us posted on the X-ray

Love, MiYu

Hi Gard I hope you are ok , love, MiYu

April 28, 2017

MiYu, I have no idea what the make up of the Roxane liquid Valium is. All I know is it can be diluted with plain water.
You don't need vodka, or almond milk, or any milk or any of that glycol stuff.

When I started with the 10:1 solution, I was a very happy camper. Some people who are on pretty big doses stay with pills for most of their dose and then use the liquid to finish off the part of the dose that is a fraction ( or a small percentage cut).
For example,
A 9.4 dose might be one 5 mg pill. Two 2 mg pills
and using a 10:1 liquid solution, pull-up .4 mg at the 4 line with a one ml syringe. Sounds confusing but it's really not. The liquid is what makes the fraction dosing very accurate so you can decrease your dose by small percentages.

Hope that makes sense.
But if you are comfortable with what you are doing now, that is fine.

Heath

Oh and thanks for the kind words for my procedure. I'm sure it will go just fine. $:-\$ hope so!

Here you are H Roxanne .......

diazepam (Diazepam) solution
diazepam (Diazepam) solution, concentrate
[Roxane Laboratories, Inc.]

Rx only

DESCRIPTION

Each 5 mL of Oral Solution contains:

Diazepam........................................................... 5 mg

Each mL of IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains:

Diazepam............................................................ 5 mg

Alcohol................................................................ 19%

Inactive Ingredients:

The wintergreen-spice flavored 5 mg/5 mL Oral Solution contains bitterness modifier, citric acid, D&C Yellow No. 10, FD&C Red No. 40, flavoring, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium citrate, sorbitol, and water.

The 5 mg/mL IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains alcohol, D&C Yellow No. 10, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, succinic acid, and water.

Love Nova XXX :smitten:

Wow NOVA! You are so very knowledgeable! Thanks!

Heath :smitten:

April 28, 2017

Hi ATU

I know that we are not supposed to have any floroquinolone antibiotics when on benzos

(like I think lexapro and cipro?)

Could the drug you took be in that family of drugs?

Well no matter now I guess, but glad you are on the mend.

:smitten: Heath

April 28, 2017

HELLO FROM THE SURVIVOR OF THE COLONOSCOPY!

HEATH HERE, feeling oh so fine. Colonoscopy DONE! went without a hitch.

Only bad part was the prep. Cramps and never ending visits to the toilet. Should have worn some adult diapers!

Almost missed the pot a few times! oops, actually I did!

I really have to thank you buddies for alerting me to the fact that benzos ( i.e. Valium) are often used as the sedation drug for colonoscopies.

Turns out I was forthright enough with my gastroenterology doc to tell him that I was withdrawing from Valium and under no circumstances did I want any kind of benzos for sedation. ( One of you buddies told me that you had done that and I thought it was a good idea. I even wrote it on my in-take papers. The nurse noted it on my chart and put a red band on my wrist stating that! How thorough!)

So my gastroenterology doc brought in an anesthesiologist and he gave me propofol to sedate me instead of any benzo.

Great drug. One minute your awake, next minute you're asleep and then what seems like another minute you're awake and it's all finished. Absolutely amazing

Propofol is what killed Michael Jackson so when I first heard that was the drug they were using I freaked out a bit. But the anesthesiologist assured me it was a great drug, very safe when used in a hospital setting by an anesthesiologist who knows what he is doing. Michael Jackson was administered the drug by an unlicensed dr. who was not an anesthesiologist and did not use it correctly etc.

He said it was like having a gynecologist do open heart surgery!!!!

Yes indeed , I love my gastroenterology dr. and this anesthesiologist!

I think I finally put on my big girl pants and talked to my doctors as if we were equals instead if putting them on a pedestal.Turns out that when I spoke up they treated me like an equal who has a brain that can process everything they say.

Any way, gastroenterology doc said everything looked normal and fine. Did a small biopsy because that is the only way to detect lymphocytic colitis( it's a microscopic thing in the lining of the colon that causes irritation. I had it but it went away. Now with cramps and other symptoms too graphic to describe, a biopsy will confirm or rule out the recurrence of lymphocytic colitis.

If it comes back negative, well then I guess it just might be a withdrawal side effect.

Had to go through the colonoscopy to find out, but atleast it has ruled out any polyps or other dangerous things.

Well atleast it's behind me now! ( ha......pun intended) I will sleep good tonight ! :smitten:

Thanks again for all of your support,

HEATH

April 28, 2017

Great news Heath, -All in the Rear view mirror..

I think many Drs have much more respect for those that take an active interest in their own health...

After all it is where there interest lays (one hopes).... and when they see a genuine interest, and a possibility to make a real difference, well, sometimes the flood gates open...

When one seriously thinks about it, who on earth would want to be a Dr, unless they had a passion for it, and helping people... But they must desensitise to the doom n gloom...

So I have found making the effort to take an interest, often well worth the effort...

-And the ones that dont respond, well, I tend not to see again.. ofcorse there are exceptions and time constraints...

Hi to Everyone else also, -and those few of you having a rough patch, Best wishes and get well soon..

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