The Long Hold Support Group

[[He...]]

Quiet on the USA home front for now. I guess all you buddies onthe other time zones are all asleep.

Well happy dreaming. I'll be asleep when you wake up!

:crazy: :crazy:

 

Heath

[[be...]]

Hi All,

I take 3mg of melatonin at bed time . My doc said it is a natural hormone that your body makes and as we age our bodies don't makes as much as when we were younger. He said it s perfectly safe to take ,never have to be withdrawal, just stop taking it if you want to at any tine.

My doc takes 3mg so that's why I take 3mg. But a different dr laughed at me. I was too embarrassed to ask why he was laughing, but I shoukd have asked. I diidn't like him very much anyway.

 

But last night I found only half a pill in the bottle among the other pills so I only took a half a pill......

(1 1/2 mg) Made no difference in my sleep.

 

MIYU,

I NEVER HEARD OF SLOW RELEASED MELATONIN. I WILL SURELY TRY IT THE NEXT TIME I GET MORE MELATONIN. THANKS FOR THAT INFORMATION. I NEVER KNEW THERE WAS A SLOW RELEASED KIND.  OOPS, SORRY FOR THE CAP LETTERS.

 

I have trouble keeping up with your posts, but what ever you are trying now to help you feel better, I sure am praying it works for you.

heath :smitten:

Heath, thanks for sharing about taking Melatonin, I wonder if the other Doctor was laughing because he does not believe in it, and of course a rude way of interacting with a Patient... . Or I wonder if he read Dr Oz remarks about not taking more than 1mg a night, who knows for sure, but young Lady do not allow a Doctor to laugh and not ask.... , I would not have left the room until he explained why he was laughing. So glad you are doing so well, remember when you thought you could not hold, but you have and you have had some really good days. way to go Heath. :smitten:

 

Thanks so much Begood. You are right. Never should have let him laugh at me.

I am going to try taking 1 1/2 mg melatonin for the next few nights and see what happens.

I'm also going to try the sustained release melatonin that MiYu posted about. Sounds like it may be better for me because it will give me less melatonin but it will give it throughout the night, very interesting.maybe even 3mg sustained release. I'll see how it goes.

I love your little guy who shook his finger at me! Made me laugh, but so right. Love your posts...and I DO LISTEN TO THEM!

Heathcliff :smitten:

You can find the little man under the "more" under the first smiley face. Valley said something that makes a lot of sense, not to take too much of the Melatonin, less is best, and reading today on line they advised 1mg or below also I too believe less is more. :smitten: I saw the sustained release by the same Name that MiYu spoke of at Walmart today, saving postage.

[[Al...]]

Heath,

 

Glad to hear you a feeling a bit better.

I just wanted to say although I know green tea has many good things in it, it does contain a large amount of caffeine. You probably already know this but I thought I would mention it.

Personally I like Tulsi tea or turmeric tea at night.

If a I am in one of shaky states a nice cup of Lemon balm tea settles me right down.

 

Stay well! 

 

ATU 🙏

[[He...]]

Hi Lynne!

 

WOW, I SEE YOU ARE AT .05!  Wow! Good for you. I'm so happy fir you!

:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:

 

HERE's to AMAZING YOU! :smitten:   WAY TO GO ! Congrats on your low low dose! You're almost there! Woo hoo!

 

Heath

[[ly...]]

 

 

Thanks Heath!  Slowly but surely...

 

btw - so glad you are doing well!

[[He...]]

 

 

Thanks Heath!  Slowly but surely...

 

btw - so glad you are doing well!

 

You are very welcome. I love to see buddies like you who are doing it the turtle way. It just helps me to know and remember that it works.

I have finally gotten it into my head. Slow is definitely the way to go. 

 

Thanks for being here with us and being an inspiration.

heath 

[[ga...]]

Hi Lynne!

 

WOW, I SEE YOU ARE AT .05!  Wow! Good for you. I'm so happy fir you!

:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:

 

HERE's to AMAZING YOU! :smitten:   WAY TO GO ! Congrats on your low low dose! You're almost there! Woo hoo!

 

Heath

 

Ditto!

[[He...]]

A quick shout out to Gardner. Hope you are doing well. You are missed. Take care.

Heath

[[be...]]

Hi Lynne!

 

WOW, I SEE YOU ARE AT .05!  Wow! Good for you. I'm so happy fir you!

:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:

 

HERE's to AMAZING YOU! :smitten:   WAY TO GO ! Congrats on your low low dose! You're almost there! Woo hoo!

 

Heath

 

Ditto!

"Double Ditto" with Chocolate Ice Cream on Top, way to go Lynn a inspiration for sure. :smitten:

[[He...]]

Heath,

 

Glad to hear you a feeling a bit better.

I just wanted to say although I know green tea has many good things in it, it does contain a large amount of caffeine. You probably already know this but I thought I would mention it.

Personally I like Tulsi tea or turmeric tea at night.

If a I am in one of shaky states a nice cup of Lemon balm tea settles me right down.

 

Stay well! 

 

ATU

 

 

That's interesting that you say green tea has caffeine in it. My green tea is decaffenaited. Celestial Seasonings is the brand.

 

Heath

[[He...]]

Hi All,

I take 3mg of melatonin at bed time . My doc said it is a natural hormone that your body makes and as we age our bodies don't makes as much as when we were younger. He said it s perfectly safe to take ,never have to be withdrawal, just stop taking it if you want to at any tine.

My doc takes 3mg so that's why I take 3mg. But a different dr laughed at me. I was too embarrassed to ask why he was laughing, but I shoukd have asked. I diidn't like him very much anyway.

 

But last night I found only half a pill in the bottle among the other pills so I only took a half a pill......

(1 1/2 mg) Made no difference in my sleep.

 

MIYU,

I NEVER HEARD OF SLOW RELEASED MELATONIN. I WILL SURELY TRY IT THE NEXT TIME I GET MORE MELATONIN. THANKS FOR THAT INFORMATION. I NEVER KNEW THERE WAS A SLOW RELEASED KIND.  OOPS, SORRY FOR THE CAP LETTERS.

 

I have trouble keeping up with your posts, but what ever you are trying now to help you feel better, I sure am praying it works for you.

heath :smitten:

Heath, thanks for sharing about taking Melatonin, I wonder if the other Doctor was laughing because he does not believe in it, and of course a rude way of interacting with a Patient... . Or I wonder if he read Dr Oz remarks about not taking more than 1mg a night, who knows for sure, but young Lady do not allow a Doctor to laugh and not ask.... , I would not have left the room until he explained why he was laughing. So glad you are doing so well, remember when you thought you could not hold, but you have and you have had some really good days. way to go Heath. :smitten:

 

Thanks so much Begood. You are right. Never should have let him laugh at me.

I am going to try taking 1 1/2 mg melatonin for the next few nights and see what happens.

I'm also going to try the sustained release melatonin that MiYu posted about. Sounds like it may be better for me because it will give me less melatonin but it will give it throughout the night, very interesting.maybe even 3mg sustained release. I'll see how it goes.

I love your little guy who shook his finger at me! Made me laugh, but so right. Love your posts...and I DO LISTEN TO THEM!

Heathcliff :smitten:

You can find the little man under the "more" under the first smiley face. Valley said something that makes a lot of sense, not to take too much of the Melatonin, less is best, and reading today on line they advised 1mg or below also I too believe less is more. :smitten: I saw the sustained release by the same Name that MiYu spoke of at Walmart today, saving postage.

 

Thanks Begood.

Ok it's off to Walmart I go!

By the way, I did not know it is suggested to take no more than 1 mg melatonin. Hmmm makes me think .  Maybe 1 mg really would do the trick for me. I think I will def try the one mg. It just may work. I can always go to 2 mg if necessary. Sure is better to go with the lowest possible dose  that will do it for me.

Thanks for the tip Begood!  Oh and I found the little guy with the shaking finger!  Thanks!

 

Heath

[[ga...]]

A quick shout out to Gardner. Hope you are doing well. You are missed. Take care.

Heath

 

Thanks, Heath and everybody else. Very busy and limited internet access but trying to stay caught up as much as possible. Hugs to all!

 

Gard

[[ly...]]

 

 

Nice to see you Gard.  Hang in there!

[[Al...]]

Heath,

 

Glad to hear you a feeling a bit better.

I just wanted to say although I know green tea has many good things in it, it does contain a large amount of caffeine. You probably already know this but I thought I would mention it.

Personally I like Tulsi tea or turmeric tea at night.

If a I am in one of shaky states a nice cup of Lemon balm tea settles me right down.

 

Stay well! 

 

ATU

 

 

That's interesting that you say green tea has caffeine in it. My green tea is decaffenaited. Celestial Seasonings is the brand.

 

Heath

 

Glad that you are using the decaf kind Heath. I read the regular can have as much caffeine in it as Coffee. Celestial makes lots of great teas! 

 

Be well.

 

ATU 🙏

[[ly...]]

Hi Lynne!

 

WOW, I SEE YOU ARE AT .05!  Wow! Good for you. I'm so happy fir you!

:yippee: :yippee: :yippee: :yippee:

 

HERE's to AMAZING YOU! :smitten:   WAY TO GO ! Congrats on your low low dose! You're almost there! Woo hoo!

 

Heath

 

Ditto!

"Double Ditto" with Chocolate Ice Cream on Top, way to go Lynn a inspiration for sure. :smitten:

 

Thank you BG! :smitten:

[[Ca...]]

Hi Guys, Good to see most doing well, and my best, and strength to those that are struggeling right now...

Thanks Heath and BG on the subject of melatonin, I will file that away... It all helps...

 

Hi Lynn, My congrats also on your continued reduction, you do it with such style... Hope the event went well, -but ill catch you up on that...

 

Tntd, Did I hear a window?? -sorry, thats stretching my memory, But wishing you many and longer windows... may the healing continue, ever forward...

 

MiYu and Valley, Sorry my memory and brain just havnt caught up after my city trip to the specialist, I hope I havnt missed news, and that you are both doing ok?

 

Anyways, Take care Guys, Stay Happy...

Happy is Healing...

 

Oops... ATU and Nova... Hi, and Nova, thanks also for posting those quotes, ever a wealth of info, and an inspiration... Wishing the best for you both...

 

Hope there wasnt anyone else...? -I blame my fone, its all a bit constricted... or i have fat fingers...

 

 

[[no...]]

Sending everyone love , thinking of you .... Happy for those doing well!  and lots of hugs for those having troubles ...... Hang In there,

MiYu  :hug:

Hang in there MiYu, nothing about benzo's is easy, with some time and no tapering you will become stable enough to restart. I am a believer that the time spent feeling better is a win win, I truly believe that is why I am doing well now. Trust me I know that any time things change, but I would hold again for as long as I could feel able to be functional. I guess being miserable is not an option for me, as I know what hell looks like times 2 and I have no urgent desire to ever go there again. Stay Strong, do not give in to benzo lies that will try to trip you up, you can and will do this your time will come and time goes by faster than you think. :smitten:

 

Thanks Begood , I'm having a really anxious day..... It's not usually one of my main symptoms , but today has been waves upon waves of anxiety, really freaked me out..... I am just going to hold and pray for the best... I also can't go through even this level of hell. I thought going back up to the 8 mgs after my tiny reduction was a good idea, but now I'm wondering if I should just wait it out . It was such a small reduction and I probably should have waited at 8 mgs before reducing any more , I just thought I wouldn't notice a tiny cut like i did , but boy did my body go crazy with this one.....

 

Love, MiYu 

Hi M,  its nothing to do with putting it up its just the way withdrawal is, I've read LOTS of post where people have been off for quite some time, months, a few years, and have had an upswing in in symptoms, ones they never had before pop up, or return of old ones. And we will go up and down, my anxiety is bad, it did get better for a while but now its there  over whelming all day long again now, and my toxic sleep has returned, and its because our CNS is still destabilised.

 

I can't remember clearly now but I did recall yesterday that I once held at 6.1/2mg for along time after up dosing  as I wasn't good for ages and had some of the symptoms I have now severely, I can't remember how long it was but it was a long time. And at the time I knew nothing about it was Benzos withdrawal just I was sick,  and I was in no state to even think about dropping the dose down. And I thought I was stuck like that for life ( like I do now....again  ) but eventually I stabilised beautifully after going through waves and no windows the same a now just an occasional leasing of symptoms. My mistake was then reading the Ashton manual on here 2 years ago, dropping at her rates crashed and suffered since.

 

The other thing I can recall is I had symptoms I never had before pop up as well, my Doctor diagnosed Raynards disease, as my arms and legs were going black and blue and really painful I have pictures of it somewhere. Ad my joints swelled an looked like they were broken in some places and I could barely get up off the bed, I thought it was really Rheumatoid arthritis , as I already ahd a full hip replacement done due to osteo arthritis. I had to wear arm length splints on my  arms and hand's as they were always in agony. swollen, and I thought that was Carpal tunnel syndrome on top but it ALL eventually went.

 

My anxiety is through the roof and it wakes me up but I've just got to wait it out, and I was also doing the same as you when the going got tough I was cutting in a panic until my recent updose and now I feel the same panic. I can see it in my journals I cut time and time again when it got too much and was never stabilised, I went through waves and feeling a bit better felt rough then the panic set in again like now only I'm trying to remind my self that  I can't put a time on the hold I've no control over anything.

 

I up-dosed this time and now I'm staying put where I am as my last long hold of 6 months I still went through waves of just ok and even worse waves  as I am now, but should held longer as I was obviously still very unstable at that point.  Look at these posts I hope they help you, I look back at stuff I keep on m PC  too read on days like today when I'm convinced I should cut because the drugs the problem, but the thing is the drug may have caused the problem but the problem now is being unstable due to lack of drug in our system. We got too far ahead of our brains capacity to cope with the drop plus the lag time there is with Benzo withdrwal what we're going through now is ongoing withdrawal as we're destabilised

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

]I  hope people can give themselves enough time to heal before tapering.  You may get that panicked feeling that you need to get the drug out of your system, but this feeling can be very misleading I think.  It makes it seem like the nature of the problem is the presence of the drug in the body, when I think it's really our body's dependence on the drug, and when we've built this dependence up for a long period of time it needs to be gradually reversed. 

 

 

 

My big lesson for today is that a hold is harder work than a taper.

 

We get impatient and want to take it down and down, or a pdoc pressures us into discontinuing since we're not at "therapeutic levels" anyway.

 

But to hold.  And hold.  And hold.  and wait until you're not suffering before you do a cut - and plan that cut weeks in advance. 

 

Most of you are young, a year or two added to your taper is nothing - especially since you start to feel immeasurably better once you get down to 50% of "therapeutic dose."  Your head starts to clear, you start to take interest in things, you may care more about people, or even feel creative again.  And that's the payoff for the head zaps, blinding flashes, gut trouble, sinus difficulty, restlessness - that you had to go through to get there.

 

Holding is the key, for me.  It makes me feel like I am in control of the process.  If my life is disrupted, then it's time to hold.  If I'm having health issues or symptoms, then it's time to hold.

 

 

 

Hi , Firstly, it's never advisable to alternate doses. As it has been said on this forum before, that is akin to playing ping-pong with your CNS. You have to choose a dose and stick to that dose. Secondly, regarding the new symptoms, there could be one of two things happening: 1) The 20 mg is too much for your already sensitised nervous system; 2) your body is responding to (yet another) change in dosage. When I updosed from 11mg to 20 mg in late February this year, I was already experiencing withdrawal insomnia. After the updose my symptoms got progressively worse.

 

My insomnia worsened, my anxiety worsened and I had a whole new set of symptoms such as depression, ruminating thoughts ('I'm never going to get better'), dry mouth at night, night sweats, waking with anxiety and hot flushes. This went on for 2 weeks and got progressively worse. Thinking that my body could not cope with such a high dose, I dropped to 19mg for a week. If I thought I had troubles before, well this was arguably the worst week of my life! The drop made things even worse. Finally on the 18th March I made a decision to stay put on 20mg and have been doing so ever since. Slowly my symptoms subsided. After 7.5 weeks on 20mg, I'm still not happy with my sleep but it is better. All other symptoms are gone. So the point I'm making is:

1) Any change in dosage, whether you go up or down, may cause unwanted symptoms. This is because any change in dosage when you have a destabilized CNS is going to add to that destabilization.

 

2) If you are attempting to stabilize on one specific dose for any given period of time and you choose to alter that dose (up or down), this has a tendency to 'reset the clock' in your nervous system so that any gains you may have made with regard to withdrawal symptoms improving or subsiding before you changed the dose are kind of 'wiped out' and you have to start all over again (at least this happened with me)

 

3) It can take a long (LONG) time to stabilize so you have to be patient. Some people stabilize in a week. For other is can take months. If your symptoms aren't improving or are getting worse after an updose, it doesn't necessarily mean that you need drop your dosage; in some cases it certainly does, but in mine lowering the dose made things worse.

 

Thanks you so much Nova , yes , this is very helpful! 

You have been through SO much ..... I'm amazed at how you have survived everything . And learnt things you can pass on. It always feels right to me when I read things in this group.... So many groups say push on through , including FB groups. And I always feel scared when I read them , whereas here I feel reassured , so to me that speaks to my intuition that holding is the right thing to do so that I can stabilize , however long it takes. 

It certainly seems to take a long time to get the lesson! And the impulse to make a small cut when feeling ' ok' , but not good , is strong. So this time , I'm going to wait til I feel GOOD. I hope I can get to that place.

The tolerance issue comes up.... But I think somehow that's very unlikely given that I have reduced something and experienced bad WDs throughout any tapering. And I have felt better with holding , just not better enough it seems.

There is no doubt that my system is very destabilized . I hope my doctor will support me , I don't think he understand destabilization. That's always scary , but I will try and trust that I will have what I need .

So , given that I reduced that small amount , and it was for about 4 days I think, do you think I should stay where I am now , or go back up to 8 mgs . I'm not sure what to do . You suggested going back to where I was as it was such a small reduction , nothing lost really in terms of a taper. What I need is to stabilize .

I also switched 2 mgs of my dose to liquid , that might also be playing a part in my increased symptoms. I want to get my body used to some liquid so that when I am ready I can do a LMT.

Today I have what I call lead legs , I can't feel my legs and hard to move , anxiety seems a little better , but head full of concrete , yuck.

 

I know it's my decision to make relative to staying at 8 mgs or continuing to take out the tiny amount (2/30ths of 1/4 mg approx)  I'm just not sure .......it's so little perhaps it doesn't matter, it would make my day easier if I didn't have to calculate that little bit each day and could just take the whole 2 mgs in liquid form at night.

Stable stable stable is where it's at , so either way........

 

Thank you for everything Nova . I hope you are able to stabilize very soon and feel better

Love , MiYu 

 

 

 

 

Hi M,  regarding you mentioning tolerance in your above post where I've turned it purple I agree with what this person says here. Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the way "tolerance withdrawal' is bandied about on the benzo boards (try saying that five times really fast) drives me nuts. Especially since like you said, it's usually used to scare people into keeping cutting faster, which is almost always the opposite of what they need to be doing. VERY rarely is "just keep cutting" the right answer. Drives me nuts. Feels like I'm always the voice in the wilderness on that one. People go too fast, get into withdrawal, hold for a short time; their symptoms get worse (unrelated to the hold, it's just ongoing withdrawal from going too fast before); they get told they're in "tolerance withdrawal" and they need to start cutting again. Yet when someone CTs and has prolonged withdrawal for months or years, nobody says it's "tolerance withdrawal", because obviously that's impossible if you aren't taking the drug. What's called tolerance withdrawal is almost always just plain delayed withdrawal symptoms which are pretty much universal with benzos. Benzos are notoriously up and down and nonlinear and long and drawn out, in withdrawal. Okay, thanks for letting me rant about that. The whole thing drives me nuts (she says for the third time).

 

 

 

 

[[no...]]

And then there's this as well

 

 

 

Sorry, I still don't get tolerance withdrawal.

 

 

   

1) there is tolerance withdrawal before people start to taper

 

I believe this would be the physiological effect of addiction -- your body is craving more of the drug to obtain the same effect. Calling it withdrawal is a stretch.

 

 

  2) tolerance withdrawal that occurs when people hold too long

 

The idea is to taper slowly so down regulated receptors get time to re-adapt, along with the rest of the nervous system. "Tolerance withdrawal" when people hold too long sounds like plain old withdrawal symptoms catching up. I can't see how further destabilizing the nervous system by persisting with a taper can remedy this.

 

    3) the fact tolerance withdrawal stops or lessens when people are cutting.

 

If it does this, it's because receptors are re-adapting. That would be a successful rate of taper. If the receptors are re-adapting, a hold in the middle of a taper would not do any harm -- it would probably help consolidate the recovery of the nervous system.

 

So I still don't get "tolerance withdrawal." It seems like a misleading term for a hazy concept.

[[ly...]]

 

 

I just read (yet another!) post stating something to the effect:

 

"my taper has been horrible and the wd is very bad so it's time for me to cut again... I need to get this poison out so I can start healing" :crazy:

 

I don't know.  This wouldn't "work" for me.  Maybe it does for a few.  I think my early big/rapid cuts have brought on things that will take a very long time to go away - if ever.  T being the one that I think is permanent.  If I had to do this over again, I sure wouldn't have rushed things like I did.  There really was no need.  It was the "tolerance withdrawal" warnings that pushed/panicked me into it. :idiot:

[[be...]]

Lynn, I know I keep reading that too, perhaps the benzo is causing the buddies to not think clearly, I just do not know why some think that suffering is good, no way do I ever want to revisit that hell again, you know the time on seems to be a problem but going too fast in reality makes them stay on longer, but I can not keep talking when they will not listen, I guess we all have to find our path, good or bad. I am just so glad I have aligned myself with Friends that are like minded, Strong and in good company. I am always going to be a. :smitten:

 

[[no...]]

 

 

I just read (yet another!) post stating something to the effect:

 

"my taper has been horrible and the wd is very bad so it's time for me to cut again... I need to get this poison out so I can start healing" :crazy:

 

I don't know.  This wouldn't "work" for me.  Maybe it does for a few.  I think my early big/rapid cuts have brought on things that will take a very long time to go away - if ever.  T being the one that I think is permanent.  If I had to do this over again, I sure wouldn't have rushed things like I did.  There really was no need.  It was the "tolerance withdrawal" warnings that pushed/panicked me into it. :idiot:

Hi Lynn  those 2 word alone have effed up too many people on here ''The pen is mightier than the sword'' myths perpetuated, and parroted  by the keyboard are bloody worse!!

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[be...]]

 

 

I just read (yet another!) post stating something to the effect:

 

"my taper has been horrible and the wd is very bad so it's time for me to cut again... I need to get this poison out so I can start healing" :crazy:

 

I don't know.  This wouldn't "work" for me.  Maybe it does for a few.  I think my early big/rapid cuts have brought on things that will take a very long time to go away - if ever.  T being the one that I think is permanent.  If I had to do this over again, I sure wouldn't have rushed things like I did.  There really was no need.  It was the "tolerance withdrawal" warnings that pushed/panicked me into it. :idiot:

Hi Lynn  those 2 word alone have effed up too many people on here ''The pen is mightier than the sword'' myths perpetuated, and parroted  by the keyboard are bloody worse!!

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

AMEN [glow=red,2,300]"Sista"[/glow] :smitten:

[[no...]]

 

 

I just read (yet another!) post stating something to the effect:

 

"my taper has been horrible and the wd is very bad so it's time for me to cut again... I need to get this poison out so I can start healing" :crazy:

 

I don't know.  This wouldn't "work" for me.  Maybe it does for a few.  I think my early big/rapid cuts have brought on things that will take a very long time to go away - if ever.  T being the one that I think is permanent.  If I had to do this over again, I sure wouldn't have rushed things like I did.  There really was no need.  It was the "tolerance withdrawal" warnings that pushed/panicked me into it. :idiot:

Hi Lynn  those 2 word alone have effed up too many people on here ''The pen is mightier than the sword'' myths perpetuated, and parroted  by the keyboard are bloody worse!!

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

AMEN [glow=red,2,300]"Sista"[/glow] :smitten:

Aloha Sista'  :hug: 

Love Nova  :smitten: :smitten:

[[Va...]]

 

 

I just read (yet another!) post stating something to the effect:

 

"my taper has been horrible and the wd is very bad so it's time for me to cut again... I need to get this poison out so I can start healing" :crazy:

 

I don't know.  This wouldn't "work" for me.  Maybe it does for a few.  I think my early big/rapid cuts have brought on things that will take a very long time to go away - if ever.  T being the one that I think is permanent.  If I had to do this over again, I sure wouldn't have rushed things like I did.  There really was no need.  It was the "tolerance withdrawal" warnings that pushed/panicked me into it. :idiot:

I've read those too lynn. I stilll don't get how many confuse bad sxs with the need to keep cutting.

 

Great job on getting to .05!  --V

[[ly...]]

 

 

Thanks V!