The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

Hi everyone, question and explanation needed. And advice!

 

I understand that daily microtapering is easier on one's CNS. But I don't understand how you can know at what point in your cut that  you may have gone overboard with too fast tapering, (if you get side effects.)

 

For example, if you start to get wdsx on day 15, how do you know if it was the cut on day 5 that caused the wdsx and it just took that long to show up, or maybe it was the cut on day 11 that brought wdsx?

 

What if it was the cut on day 5 that caused the wdsx but they didn't show up until day 10. Then wouldn't the wdsx get worse and worse because you had continued to cut unbeknownst that you had wdsx coming, and so you were still cutting lower and lower, and compounding the side effects?  You can't go back because you already have gone lower.

 

Does that make sense? I'm very confused!

 

Do you hold after a certain amount of days, or do you wait fir side effects?

 

Do you think cutting .02 or .03 every two or three weeks is almost like microtapering because it is so small a cut? That's what I've been doing.

 

I'm doing pretty well the way I'm doing it, but I hear so much about micro-tapering, I wonder if I would be better off. Or should I just leave things alone.

 

Maybe curiosity will kill this cat?

 

Heath ??? ???

Hi Heath. So many questions with few answers lol. If what you're doing is working, keep doing it. A DLMT works for me for a while but I end up holding when I feel sxs ramp up. It's all a game about avoiding the jolt to the CNS too severely. Minor sxs can be expected but if they are keeping you from functioning, you're probably going too fast. As far as knowing which cut hits you, it's almost impossible to know as the long acting benzos are notorious for delayed effects and it's hard to pinpoint which cut is catching up. Metabolism also plays a big role. If you metabolize more slowly, you won't feel the cuts as soon. I just follow the rule of listen to your body. I've done big cuts, small cuts, daily cuts and microcuts with holds. I think the only 2 I will use going forward are the microcuts with holds and daily cuts with built in holds. I've cut for 20 days now and it has gone very well, however I feel the fogginess creeping up on me which means it's time to hold for a bit. Don't let anxiety get the best of you. If you're doing well with the way you are tapering, stay the course. 

[[He...]]

Thank you so much V!

You make a lot of sense....as usual. Ok, I'm going to stay the course and continue doing my taper just as I am doing right now. Maybe make a bit of a bigger cut just to we what happens. Gitra see what my body says!

 

And so glad for you that your taper is going smoothly for you fir the most part!

 

Thanks again! So very much! You are a gem!

 

Heath

[[He...]]

I'm back from New Jersey.Had a great time . Feeling absolutely normal and stable. Felt like that the whole visit. delayed flights didn't shake me up at all.

So I have made another tiny cut of .02

I'm at 1.07 mg Valium now. I hope it goes smooth so i can cut again in two weeks, but I'll have to wait and see.

My sister's wifi  was not alwys working correctly so i have been out of the loop. I'll try to catch up tomorrow

It's nice to be home again.

 

Heath

[glow=red,2,300]"FANTASTIC NEWS HEATH"[/glow]    Love this quote!!

 

"Feeling absolutely normal and stable. Felt like that the whole visit. delayed flights didn't shake me up at all"

. :smitten:

 

 

Thanks Begood! I'm so glad you convinced me to hold for a long time so that I could enjoy my New Jersey visit. It really made my trip a super one .....no wdsx at all.

 

And thank you Cantfly and Valley too for your well wishes. Yup it's time to start my taper again. Actually I reduced .02 mg as soon as I got home. So here we go!

 

Heath :smitten:

[[Va...]]

I found another pic to add to our collection 

 

http://www.veryfunnypics.com/images/userUploads/Scared%20Cat.jpg

[[Ca...]]

Hi everyone, question and explanation needed. And advice!

 

I understand that daily microtapering is easier on one's CNS. But I don't understand how you can know at what point in your cut that  you may have gone overboard with too fast tapering, (if you get side effects.)

 

For example, if you start to get wdsx on day 15, how do you know if it was the cut on day 5 that caused the wdsx and it just took that long to show up, or maybe it was the cut on day 11 that brought wdsx?

 

What if it was the cut on day 5 that caused the wdsx but they didn't show up until day 10. Then wouldn't the wdsx get worse and worse because you had continued to cut unbeknownst that you had wdsx coming, and so you were still cutting lower and lower, and compounding the side effects?  You can't go back because you already have gone lower.

 

Does that make sense? I'm very confused!

 

Do you hold after a certain amount of days, or do you wait fir side effects?

 

Do you think cutting .02 or .03 every two or three weeks is almost like microtapering because it is so small a cut? That's what I've been doing.

 

I'm doing pretty well the way I'm doing it, but I hear so much about micro-tapering, I wonder if I would be better off. Or should I just leave things alone.

 

Maybe curiosity will kill this cat?

 

Heath ??? ???

hey Heath...

U ask all the good/right questions...

Valley pretty well covered all my thoughts...

 

There is a possibility that you may be able to cut a little faster DLMT... But there are also the risks of change, etc... -a very personal decision...

 

The general theory with WD SX is, (IMHO), That they build up so slow that adjustments and/or a hold can be introduced in good time... and a balance of mild SX and function can be maintained... -Thus the actual date of the "bad" cut becomes less important... (more so after one gets established with the process).

-Im sure this is easier for some than others, -and might take a little practice, and familiarity with ones SX pattern... -to get it close to perfect...

 

Probably why they say its best to start off slow, from stable, after a successful cross over/partial cross over...

 

Personally I have read too many pros and cons to either promote or discard DMLT... -as with most things benzo...

And the thought of dont fix what aint broke, does have weight...

But then one could say, -no risk, no reward...

-or no pain, no gain...

(Simplistic, I know...)

 

I guess, if things are ok how they are, take your time and keep gathering your info...

 

Just my waking up for the day thoughts...

Cheers...

Sorry, crosspost while i was blabbing on..

 

Edit... -and possibly citting a "little faster" isnt a bonus anyway, considering healing during taper vs post taper...

[[He...]]

I've kind of been doing a micro taper with long-ish holds: I just got to 1.9 ml V a day!!! This after making .01 cuts about every third day for about three weeks. Now I feel really lousy - all the usual suspects: nausea, anxiety, exhaustion, spine pain, some tremors. I guess I am in for a stabilizing hold: god it feels good to be able to say I'm under 2 a day. At this rate it will take me forever to get off and then I dread that as well - really hoping the long taper negates a difficult period of healing after I jump. Just venting - sending encouraging vibes to everybody else going through this hideous process

 

Hi Caldex,

 

I just saw your your post from April 11 about feeling like you'll never get off the V.

I felt the same way. It took me forever to get from 2.0V to 1.07 V. Now it is taking me a long time to get to under 1 mg V

It seems like such a small amount to have to get rid of, but since I cut only about .02 every two weeks, it seems like an eternity. But I know cutting is supposed to be in smaller amounts the lower you go, especially at 1 mg and below. 10% is the largest cut recommended and I only cut between 2 and 3 %  I am just afraid of wicked side effects!

 

But , just like growing old, you turn around and can't imagine where the time went, and you think, where did the time go? How did I get this old?

It will be the same with the V. You WILL get off .it seems like it will take forever, but it won't. You will get to 1 mg and you will look back and say, wow I got here and I don't know where the time went.

So just keep your pace, listen to your body. It will take as long as it takes, but it WILL happen!

 

All the best to you Caldex! Peace, healing,strength, courage, acceptance and patience. Those are the the things we all need. I picked that all up right here on this forum. I keep saying it to myself.

 

We will all be right here with you, snailing, slothing,, and turtling along! And ..... going slow and holding when necessary,hopefully.....WILL KEEP THOSE WICKED SIDE EFFECTS AT BAY, and we can live our lives!

 

Heath 

 

Heath,

 

What a great post!

You have lifted my sagging outlook on this entire affair.

 

:hug:

 

ATU 🙏

 

Glad it helped ATU! Here's to us all getting through our tapers smoothly and safely and successfully, no matter how long it takes!

It will happen!

 

Heath

[[Ca...]]

I found another pic to add to our collection 

 

http://www.veryfunnypics.com/images/userUploads/Scared%20Cat.jpg

Looks like BG stood on its tail with her "new boots"...

 

[[...]]

    oh I can't believe it ... I just wrote a huge long post about my tapering plan for those with brains to check, and I thought I'd see if I could find a scaredy cat to post with it. I was careful to copy my post so as not to loose it , and then , being one of the brainless ones currently , I copied a link for an image , and of course I lost my post !! Agh.....

I'll have to try again . Maybe mornings would better! 

Oh well, the post would have bored you all to death anyway.....

 

( the reason I can't post images is on a touch screen it's just about impossible to touch in between the image brackets..... BB doesn't make it easy for iPad users ! )

 

MiYu 

[[Va...]]

    oh I can't believe it ... I just wrote a huge long post about my tapering plan for those with brains to check, and I thought I'd see if I could find a scaredy cat to post with it. I was careful to copy my post so as not to loose it , and then , being one of the brainless ones currently , I copied a link for an image , and of course I lost my post !! Agh.....

I'll have to try again . Maybe mornings would better! 

Oh well, the post would have bored you all to death anyway.....

 

( the reason I can't post images is on a touch screen it's just about impossible to touch in between the image brackets..... BB doesn't make it easy for iPad users ! )

Hi MiYu. If you want to post a picture using an iPad push the image button and then hold your finger on it. It will pop up so you can move the cursor to the middle.  --V

 

MiYu 

[[He...]]

I found another pic to add to our collection 

 

http://www.veryfunnypics.com/images/userUploads/Scared%20Cat.jpg

Looks like BG stood on its tail with her "new boots"...

 

Omg! I am a cat person! I just love that picture!!! I once had a cat that looked just like that!

 

Heath.

[[Ca...]]

Perhaps this says it well...

Either way... -its just cute...

 

[[be...]]

"HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE, WE MAY BE SLOWER THAN SOME BUT WE ALL DESERVE TO HAVE A YUMMY EASTER EGG." 

 

[[Ca...]]

"HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE, WE MAY BE SLOWER THAN SOME BUT WE ALL DESERVE TO HAVE A YUMMY EASTER EGG." 

 

Thanks BG... -Yummy... -a break from carrots...!!!

 

Is that a mouse or a rabbit???

Asides, dont chooks do the egg thing??? -never understood this..

Valley...? Ummm...

[[be...]]

I just looked I think you are right......how funny, but it looks like rabbit ears maybe it is "RABMOUSE"  and look at its hindy it looks like a cotton tail......and it has big feet, and it does not have a wiry long tail, I just am not sure. :

[[Ca...]]

I just looked I think you are right......how funny, but it looks like rabbit ears maybe it is "RABMOUSE"  and look at its hindy it looks like a cotton tail......and it has big feet, and it does not have a wiry long tail, I just am not sure. :

Well... -When u took the pic... -did u say "cheese" or "carrot", to make it look so happy...??

 

[[be...]]

I just looked I think you are right......how funny, but it looks like rabbit ears maybe it is "RABMOUSE"  and look at its hindy it looks like a cotton tail......and it has big feet, and it does not have a wiry long tail, I just am not sure. :

Well... -When u took the pic... -did u say "cheese" or "carrot", to make it look so happy...??

Nope, I think that is why it looks like it is bored, maybe he is "HOLDING TWO AND BORED."

[[ga...]]

Thanks, Lynn. I think I may try cutting once/week and see how that goes. I was planning to do a hold because of some upcoming events, but they have been postponed, so I may try a bit bigger than normal cut tonight and then hold the rest of the week. then maybe try a  bit bigger the next time.

 

V or others on slow benzos, when do you think symptoms will kick in from a cut? I was a Xanax person before.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard 

My wdsx usually come around 8-10 days after a cut. I learned the hard way not to cut again before at least two weeks because I won't know what's going to hit or not hit for sure until I have cleared at least two weeks.

 

All the best to you!

( also, I don't know how old you are, but I've heard it said that the older you are, the longer it may take for Valium to leave your system. I don't know if it is true or not, but if it is, that could explain a longer time for side effects to appear. I am an "oldie but goodie" so I keep that in mind. Just a thought.)

 

Thanks, Heath. I'm getting up there but not sure if I'm an oldie but goodie. I made a cut a week ago thinking it would be my last before something very, very difficult on my horizon. Just found out the horizon is not a month away. It's next week. If I had known, I would not have made that last cut. And just to make sure this was as bad as possible, I missed a dose yesterday. I need sleep so badly.

 

Sorry to everyone that I haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I may be quiet for awhile if I get knocked over while having to deal with this difficult situation, which could last for quite awhile. Will try to keep reading even if I can't write.

 

Prayers, healing thoughts, I really need them. I'm feeling very fragile and unable to deal with what's ahead.

 

You guys are the best. Thank you for all you've done for me.

 

Gard

[[Ca...]]

Thanks, Lynn. I think I may try cutting once/week and see how that goes. I was planning to do a hold because of some upcoming events, but they have been postponed, so I may try a bit bigger than normal cut tonight and then hold the rest of the week. then maybe try a  bit bigger the next time.

 

V or others on slow benzos, when do you think symptoms will kick in from a cut? I was a Xanax person before.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard 

My wdsx usually come around 8-10 days after a cut. I learned the hard way not to cut again before at least two weeks because I won't know what's going to hit or not hit for sure until I have cleared at least two weeks.

 

All the best to you!

( also, I don't know how old you are, but I've heard it said that the older you are, the longer it may take for Valium to leave your system. I don't know if it is true or not, but if it is, that could explain a longer time for side effects to appear. I am an "oldie but goodie" so I keep that in mind. Just a thought.)

 

Thanks, Heath. I'm getting up there but not sure if I'm an oldie but goodie. I made a cut a week ago thinking it would be my last before something very, very difficult on my horizon. Just found out the horizon is not a month away. It's Tuesday. If I had known, I would not have made that last cut. And just to make sure this was as bad as possible, I missed a dose yesterday. I need sleep so badly.

 

Sorry to everyone that I haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I may be quiet for awhile if I get knocked over while having to deal with this difficult situation, which could last for quite awhile. Will try to keep reading even if I can't write.

 

Prayers, healing thoughts, I really need them. I'm feeling very fragile and unable to deal with what's ahead.

 

You guys are the best. Thank you for all you've done for me.

 

Gard

Gard, I have planted a whole paddock full of super fast growing Best Wishes for you!!!

-organic healthy ones...

[[Va...]]

"HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE, WE MAY BE SLOWER THAN SOME BUT WE ALL DESERVE TO HAVE A YUMMY EASTER EGG." 

 

Thanks BG... -Yummy... -a break from carrots...!!!

 

Is that a mouse or a rabbit???

Asides, dont chooks do the egg thing??? -never understood this..

Valley...? Ummm...

I'm still not sure where Easter eggs come from. I know a bunny lays the Cadbury eggs lol.  --V

[[Va...]]

Thanks, Lynn. I think I may try cutting once/week and see how that goes. I was planning to do a hold because of some upcoming events, but they have been postponed, so I may try a bit bigger than normal cut tonight and then hold the rest of the week. then maybe try a  bit bigger the next time.

 

V or others on slow benzos, when do you think symptoms will kick in from a cut? I was a Xanax person before.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard 

My wdsx usually come around 8-10 days after a cut. I learned the hard way not to cut again before at least two weeks because I won't know what's going to hit or not hit for sure until I have cleared at least two weeks.

 

All the best to you!

( also, I don't know how old you are, but I've heard it said that the older you are, the longer it may take for Valium to leave your system. I don't know if it is true or not, but if it is, that could explain a longer time for side effects to appear. I am an "oldie but goodie" so I keep that in mind. Just a thought.)

 

Thanks, Heath. I'm getting up there but not sure if I'm an oldie but goodie. I made a cut a week ago thinking it would be my last before something very, very difficult on my horizon. Just found out the horizon is not a month away. It's Tuesday. If I had known, I would not have made that last cut. And just to make sure this was as bad as possible, I missed a dose yesterday. I need sleep so badly.

 

Sorry to everyone that I haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I may be quiet for awhile if I get knocked over while having to deal with this difficult situation, which could last for quite awhile. Will try to keep reading even if I can't write.

 

Prayers, healing thoughts, I really need them. I'm feeling very fragile and unable to deal with what's ahead.

 

You guys are the best. Thank you for all you've done for me.

 

Gard

I'm sorry for your added stress gard. Relax and try to take care of yourself. We'll be here when you need us.  --V

[[ga...]]

Thanks, Lynn. I think I may try cutting once/week and see how that goes. I was planning to do a hold because of some upcoming events, but they have been postponed, so I may try a bit bigger than normal cut tonight and then hold the rest of the week. then maybe try a  bit bigger the next time.

 

V or others on slow benzos, when do you think symptoms will kick in from a cut? I was a Xanax person before.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard 

My wdsx usually come around 8-10 days after a cut. I learned the hard way not to cut again before at least two weeks because I won't know what's going to hit or not hit for sure until I have cleared at least two weeks.

 

All the best to you!

( also, I don't know how old you are, but I've heard it said that the older you are, the longer it may take for Valium to leave your system. I don't know if it is true or not, but if it is, that could explain a longer time for side effects to appear. I am an "oldie but goodie" so I keep that in mind. Just a thought.)

 

Thanks, Heath. I'm getting up there but not sure if I'm an oldie but goodie. I made a cut a week ago thinking it would be my last before something very, very difficult on my horizon. Just found out the horizon is not a month away. It's Tuesday. If I had known, I would not have made that last cut. And just to make sure this was as bad as possible, I missed a dose yesterday. I need sleep so badly.

 

Sorry to everyone that I haven't been able to keep up with the thread. I may be quiet for awhile if I get knocked over while having to deal with this difficult situation, which could last for quite awhile. Will try to keep reading even if I can't write.

 

Prayers, healing thoughts, I really need them. I'm feeling very fragile and unable to deal with what's ahead.

 

You guys are the best. Thank you for all you've done for me.

 

Gard

I'm sorry for your added stress gard. Relax and try to take care of yourself. We'll be here when you need us.  --V

 

Ty.

[[ga...]]

Beautiful! 

[[ly...]]

Beautiful! 

 

Just love flowers!

[[be...]]

Beautiful! 

 

Just love flowers!

Just Beautiful that would make Gard and really any of us feel really good, and the Sunshine, Perfect.

[[an...]]

Take care Gard!!  We are only a click away.

 

You will be in my thoughts. 

 

Anne  :smitten: