The Long Hold Support Group

[[...]]

Thanks everyone

Valley, ty, i will look into that, is that sometimes used for alcohol w/d?

I have a great Dr, so if i can justify a trial, no prob...

I have bedn trickling in a tiny amount of codeine without any escalation issues, infact even reducing it to nil on occasion without thought recently. Another good sign, i guess...

 

Lynn, yes.. tooo fast... lol..

On the bigger v doses, they were as needed and some days between doses..

I knew not of half life... ooops

So i dropped well into w/d, and knew not of waves... double oops...

Crazy days... but here we are, and feeling positive for the first time in a long while...

 

So thanks again everyone...

It is used for alcohol abuse and opiate overdose and abuse prevention. They use a lot higher doses though. The idea is that it supercharges endorphins and causes a strengthening of the immune system, regulation of hormones and other beneficial health effects. The nice thing about it is it's cheap and pretty much side effect free. No dependency is ever built so no withdrawal from it. I just thought I'd give it a shot after trying it last year. I started again a few weeks ago and feel it has made a positive difference.  --V

 

Do you get it prescribed Valley in 3 mg doses, or do you make your own from  50mg pills ?

[[...]]

Heath,

 

Sorry to hear about the back pain. Don't forget to use heat/ cold alternately.

It will get better soon.

 

Miyu,

 

I get the pins and needles thing in fact Ihave had it now for the last 24-35 hours. I always get this on two instances. First when my sleep goes bad on me and it has for the past two nights. Second when I get anxious and since sleep makes me anxious,..well. I'm also anxious since I have to fly out to Mexico on Wednesday. That should normally be a good thing right, a Mexican Mayan vacation but no, I have to make into a anxiety!

 

Miyu, one thing I have noticed is that when I get those pins & needles for me it means I am resisting it and it makes it more intense and last longer. Try to just accept it and relax into it. If you can do this you might just fine that it ebbs away. I hope so.

 

Heath, here are your hugs,.  :hug:

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU 🙏

 

 

Thank you ATU for your wise words as always 

[[...]]

Hugs for you Health , I'm sorry you are hurting 

:hug:

[[Al...]]

Valley Um,

 

May I ask what exactly this ldn is that you guys were talking about?

 

Sounds interesting. But I don't believe I have heard of it before.

 

Thanks

 

ATU 🙏

[[Va...]]

Valley Um,

 

May I ask what exactly this ldn is that you guys were talking about?

 

Sounds interesting. But I don't believe I have heard of it before.

 

Thanks

 

ATU 🙏

Low dose naltrexone. There is actually a few threads here on BB discussing it.  --V

[[Va...]]

Thanks everyone

Valley, ty, i will look into that, is that sometimes used for alcohol w/d?

I have a great Dr, so if i can justify a trial, no prob...

I have bedn trickling in a tiny amount of codeine without any escalation issues, infact even reducing it to nil on occasion without thought recently. Another good sign, i guess...

 

Lynn, yes.. tooo fast... lol..

On the bigger v doses, they were as needed and some days between doses..

I knew not of half life... ooops

So i dropped well into w/d, and knew not of waves... double oops...

Crazy days... but here we are, and feeling positive for the first time in a long while...

 

So thanks again everyone...

It is used for alcohol abuse and opiate overdose and abuse prevention. They use a lot higher doses though. The idea is that it supercharges endorphins and causes a strengthening of the immune system, regulation of hormones and other beneficial health effects. The nice thing about it is it's cheap and pretty much side effect free. No dependency is ever built so no withdrawal from it. I just thought I'd give it a shot after trying it last year. I started again a few weeks ago and feel it has made a positive difference.  --V

 

Do you get it prescribed Valley in 3 mg doses, or do you make your own from  50mg pills ?

I have it compounded MiYu. I'd hate to make my own lol. It's already a pain mixing up the Valium brew every week.  --V

[[be...]]

Thanks Valley and Hope, (and those that read but couldnt answer),

 

No fear on the suboxone... I did my C/T in clinic, by choice, was sposed to get 3day naloxone wafer taper, but the first 2mg wafer made me so high, Very strange, considering...

Anyways, so i refused anymore wafers... so they sent me home early, -not that i argued...

 

My specialist is private, so its money orientated, and partly that they look at my files and assume i should be on opiates, -it drives me nuts... so they r all sacked now, its just me, my GP and orthopeidics... (mostly)...

 

Its early days yet, and i have said it too many times before... -but i think im turning a big slow corner now, and had a 6 hr micro window today... -yay...

 

Thank you everyone... knowing you are here, not judging, makes a world of difference...

T.

That's great you had a brief window!  It's a sign of healing. Have you considered or do you have access to low dose naltrexone? I've found it has helped me out a lot but you have to find the right dose so if you try it, start really low. --V

 

hi Valley ( and hi Cantfly)

Are you still taking the LDN Valley? If so, what dose do you take? My doc prescribed it for me to see if it helped the burning pain. I started with .5 mg... Didn't feel much, tried 1 mg, might be helping mood and energy . 1.5 mg seemed to give me a headache and stomach pains. I'm not sure, could be still related  to the V. Anyway .... I'm off and on with it and not sure if to continue.

 

General question for folks .... Do you or have you ever gone through a period of feeling really irritable. I can hardly stand myself right now I feel so irritated. It's sort of a body sensation that translates into irritibility..... It's the burning and being stuck all over with  pins thing again ...

 

Love, MiYu 

MiYu, I am a pretty level headed person, good attitude, you know the drill... , but I have had one day of extreme anger, not so much irritable, I went for the throat, and it is scary I am sure  because of the wd, and it hit out of the blue. It  happened once In Walmart, and I was doing fine and shopping and all of a sudden I was ready to tell someone off, everything was making me angry, it was horrible, but thankfully lasted only a few hours, but now I know it was the sx from tapering, but thankfully that part of my Brain was readjusting, hope never to have that again. It was not me at all. Granted I can stand my ground if needed, but this was off the charts. . Hope things keep on getting better for you. :smitten: Loved your pic the other day.

[[He...]]

Thanks ATU, MIYU, VALLEY, CF and others,, for all your encouragement.

 

Yes I am doing all those things suggested to me and hoping and praying that the back spasms will leave me soon.

Thanks for the hugs too.

Heath

[[be...]]

Thanks ATU, MIYU, VALLEY, CF and others,, for all your encouragement.

 

Yes I am doing all those things suggested to me and hoping and praying that the back spasms will leave me soon.

Thanks for the hugs too.

Heath

Sorry I am late, Heath sorry you are having pain, and I had back spasms when I hurt my back once and it was not a pleasant experience. I know that a muscle relaxer would help, but not sure if it is a benzo, seems like they gave me flexiril for it and it helped but made me sleepy. Hope it subsides sooner than later. Stat Strong. :smitten:

[[Al...]]

Heath,

 

Begood is correct in referr to flexeril. That's what I haven't and use but only occasionally when the muscle pain is real bad. The generic name is Cyclobenzaprine. Sounds like a benzo but its not. It has gotten me out of muscle pain trouble a few times and as Begood says it also helps with a good sleep as a side effect.

 

Hope it passes soon.

 

 

ATU 🙏

[[He...]]

Thanks  BeGood and ATU,

I've heard of flexeril. I'm kind of aftraid to take any meds for my back other than Alleve. But it seems to be never letting up. If it continues or gets worse in the net two weeks, maybe I will ask the doc for Flexeril.. for now, I am going to try to go the road without it.  Hope it goes away soon. I am using heat and ice, simple stretches, and self massage for now.

 

Thanks,

ATU, I hope your pins and needles subside and that your Mexican Mayan vacation turns out to be a really good time.

 

Be good, I hope your  taper continues to be so very smooth. You are doing so well!

 

Also, I read your post to MiYu about one time being overcome with so much irritability and anger when in Walmart. That must have been very wierd because it is so opposite of who you are. There doesn't seem to be a mean bone in your body!

 

Heath 

 

[[be...]]

Thanks  BeGood and ATU,

I've heard of flexeril. I'm kind of aftraid to take any meds for my back other than Alleve. But it seems to be never letting up. If it continues or gets worse in the net two weeks, maybe I will ask the doc for Flexeril.. for now, I am going to try to go the road without it.  Hope it goes away soon. I am using heat and ice, simple stretches, and self massage for now.

 

Thanks,

ATU, I hope your pins and needles subside and that your Mexican Mayan vacation turns out to be a really good time.

 

Be good, I hope your  taper continues to be so very smooth. You are doing so well!

 

Also, I read your post to MiYu about one time being overcome with so much irritability and anger when in Walmart. That must have been very wierd because it is so opposite of who you are. There doesn't seem to be a mean bone in your body!

 

Heath 

Oh Heath I am even tempered, but it was nothing I could control and I know that it had to be the effects of the taper and my Brain making some tweaks, just was a speed bump and got better in no time, it was not me for sure, darn benzo's. I would not say I am mean either, but I am the type that will rise up to meet a threat if needed or put someone in their place if needed. No pussy cat when the rare occasion should arise....

[[...]]

Thanks Valley and Hope, (and those that read but couldnt answer),

 

No fear on the suboxone... I did my C/T in clinic, by choice, was sposed to get 3day naloxone wafer taper, but the first 2mg wafer made me so high, Very strange, considering...

Anyways, so i refused anymore wafers... so they sent me home early, -not that i argued...

 

My specialist is private, so its money orientated, and partly that they look at my files and assume i should be on opiates, -it drives me nuts... so they r all sacked now, its just me, my GP and orthopeidics... (mostly)...

 

Its early days yet, and i have said it too many times before... -but i think im turning a big slow corner now, and had a 6 hr micro window today... -yay...

 

Thank you everyone... knowing you are here, not judging, makes a world of difference...

T.

That's great you had a brief window!  It's a sign of healing. Have you considered or do you have access to low dose naltrexone? I've found it has helped me out a lot but you have to find the right dose so if you try it, start really low. --V

 

hi Valley ( and hi Cantfly)

Are you still taking the LDN Valley? If so, what dose do you take? My doc prescribed it for me to see if it helped the burning pain. I started with .5 mg... Didn't feel much, tried 1 mg, might be helping mood and energy . 1.5 mg seemed to give me a headache and stomach pains. I'm not sure, could be still related  to the V. Anyway .... I'm off and on with it and not sure if to continue.

 

General question for folks .... Do you or have you ever gone through a period of feeling really irritable. I can hardly stand myself right now I feel so irritated. It's sort of a body sensation that translates into irritibility..... It's the burning and being stuck all over with  pins thing again ...

 

Love, MiYu 

MiYu, I am a pretty level headed person, good attitude, you know the drill... , but I have had one day of extreme anger, not so much irritable, I went for the throat, and it is scary I am sure  because of the wd, and it hit out of the blue. It  happened once In Walmart, and I was doing fine and shopping and all of a sudden I was ready to tell someone off, everything was making me angry, it was horrible, but thankfully lasted only a few hours, but now I know it was the sx from tapering, but thankfully that part of my Brain was readjusting, hope never to have that again. It was not me at all. Granted I can stand my ground if needed, but this was off the charts. . Hope things keep on getting better for you. :smitten: Loved your pic the other day.

 

Oh dear !    yes, I haven't had this one before ..... Feeling so aggravated. I never go to Walmart , I think i would loose it in there on any day at this particular time in my life! Can just about manage the local store.

Anyway , it has subsided , I did a lot of relaxing and acceptance stuff this afternoon and it helped .

I've had a really horrid day .... after a pretty good one yesterday .

The burning has been amped up and I think that's what got me feeling so irritated , in part , the sensation, it was definitely more than that too though.

Anyway , a new day tomorrow and hoping for  a better one. It always feels so all consuming when you have a bad day, like it's always been this way and will never get better .

I know this isn't true, still, I'm a bit upset that i was doing better and made those very teeny cuts, and now feel horrible. I'll just hold til I feel better.

Wish I could for tell the future and know that I'll get off this sooner rather than later , only because I don't want it to be like this the whole way. But there's no way to know apparantly....

 

Pray for miracles !   

MiYu  :smitten:

[[He...]]

MiYu and anyone else who is getting wdsx from tiny cuts. Or anyone else who wants to chime in,

 

I sure can relate to your frustrations from getting wdsx from the tiniest cuts.

I have been making cuts of less than 2% and am getting wdsx.

My last cut of .02 from. 1.12  Valium down to 1.1 has given me the really bad back spasms I have been posting about. What the heck...it was less than 2%!

I know I am at a low dose and have to go really slow, but at ths rate it will take me about two years or longer  to get off the last one mg !  I wouldnot mind if I could live my life, but I am in such pain, it scares me terribly. How much longer will this go on? Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm in a really bad place.  And no, I will not up dose!

 

I am wondering if I should increase my cut to a mere -.03 instead of -.02 once  my wdsx subside and I hold a decent amount of time. It doesn't seem like it would make a difference?  It's such a small amount and I'm getting wdsx anyway!

I'm beginning to wonder once again if this back thing really is a withdrawal side effect. Maybe it really is just my dumb bad back!.i just don't know how to find out for sure. The neurosurgeon will not do another MRI.

What am I to do? I'm at a loss.

Then I am reminded about my horrible neck ache that lasted a good 4-5 months. It turned out to be withdrawal because it went away all of a sudden after those months all by itself!

So my hubby really thinks it is withdrawal. Damn if I know!

 

Heath :-[

[[Va...]]

MiYu and anyone else who is getting wdsx from tiny cuts. Or anyone else who wants to chime in,

 

I sure can relate to your frustrations from getting wdsx from the tiniest cuts.

I have been making cuts of less than 2% and am getting wdsx.

My last cut of .02 from. 1.12  Valium down to 1.1 has given me the really bad back spasms I have been posting about.

I know I am at a low dose and have to go really slow, but at ths rate it will take me about two years or longer  to get off the last mg !  I wouldnot mind if I could live my life, but I am in such pain, it scares me terribly. How much longer will this go on? Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm in a really bad place.

 

I am wondering if I should increase my cut to a mere -.03 instead of -.02 once  my wdsx subside and I hold a decent amount of time. It doesn't seem like it would make a difference?  It's such a small amount and I'm getting wdsx anyway!

I'm beginning to wonder once again if this back thing really is a withdrawal side effect. Maybe it really is just my dumb bad back!.i just don't know how to find out for sure. The neurosurgeon will not do another MRI.

What am I to do? I'm at a loss.

 

Heath :-[

I can relate Heath. My small cuts are hitting me harder now. The sxs are changing somewhat in nature but still not pleasant. I will most likely cut smaller and/or hold longer between reductions. I can't tell you if .03 would be the same as .02 but my guess is it could make your sxs worse. Have you thought of trying .01?  I think you're low enough that if you move slowly and start to feel sxs lift, you'll be able to jump sooner than you think.  --V

[[be...]]

MiYu and anyone else who is getting wdsx from tiny cuts. Or anyone else who wants to chime in,

 

I sure can relate to your frustrations from getting wdsx from the tiniest cuts.

I have been making cuts of less than 2% and am getting wdsx.

My last cut of .02 from. 1.12  Valium down to 1.1 has given me the really bad back spasms I have been posting about.

I know I am at a low dose and have to go really slow, but at ths rate it will take me about two years or longer  to get off the last mg !  I wouldnot mind if I could live my life, but I am in such pain, it scares me terribly. How much longer will this go on? Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm in a really bad place.

 

I am wondering if I should increase my cut to a mere -.03 instead of -.02 once  my wdsx subside and I hold a decent amount of time. It doesn't seem like it would make a difference?  It's such a small amount and I'm getting wdsx anyway!

I'm beginning to wonder once again if this back thing really is a withdrawal side effect. Maybe it really is just my dumb bad back!.i just don't know how to find out for sure. The neurosurgeon will not do another MRI.

What am I to do? I'm at a loss.

 

Heath :-[

I can relate Heath. My small cuts are hitting me harder now. The sxs are changing somewhat in nature but still not pleasant. I will most likely cut smaller and/or hold longer between reductions. I can't tell you if .03 would be the same as .02 but my guess is it could make your sxs worse. Have you thought of trying .01?  I think you're low enough that if you move slowly and start to feel sxs lift, you'll be able to jump sooner than you think.  --V

Valley, I agree with you about Heath not going higher, but lower. I found when I taper, I do have some different sx, still blippy for me, never bad at all, but doable, right now I have itching all over my body like bugs are biting me, I have had this before and it will and does go away, I do not have the extreme fatigue now, still finishing my taper, so one gone and another having a visit.

 

I was reading the other day when we make our last cut it is a 100% cut, I am not sure what does this mean. But I do think that this medication no matter how little the cuts, is making our Brain adjust to the cuts, when I taper I am doing 1/2 you know the amt, each day for 10 days and it equals out to 5% cut for 10 days, so I really do think that as we get lower the % gets larger, anyway Free advised me of that when I was having a set back a long time ago, that is when I slowed it down, I am still in no hurry and so sorry that some are struggling with sx, but I do think it is from the taper. Of course in Heaths case I would hope she has had her female exams, we must never assume that it is always the taper. :smitten:

[[Ca...]]

Hey BG, I can only do simple today (like thats any change..)

 

The 100% final cut had me thinking too...

What i think it means (sorta a word play), is that no matter what our last dose is, when we jump, we are cutting ALL (100%) of the previous or last dose... -no matter the size...

 

Hope u r de-blipping...

[[...]]

Hey BG, I can only do simple today (like thats any change..)

 

The 100% final cut had me thinking too...

What i think it means (sorta a word play), is that no matter what our last dose is, when we jump, we are cutting ALL (100%) of the previous or last dose... -no matter the size...

 

Hope u r de-blipping...

 

Hi Cantfly.... Wow , I just read some of your story on your blog..... You've been through so much! It amazes me just how much people go through and what the human body is capable of surviving.

You are definitely  a survivor.  Life is always greener until we stop looking for the greener side , that's the secret . Ah , but not so easy to put into practice ...Hope you feel better and better ,

MiYu 

[[Ca...]]

Hey MiYu... Thanks.

 

It is amazing, and i hope it gives others hope... so many code 0's, yet here we are dealing with medicine damage... There are so many amazing stories on bb, enough to give us all the encouragment we need... we just need to believe and trust in our bodies... -yes, often a big leap of faith...

Best wishes...

 

[[He...]]

BEGOOD

thanks for the push to see my Obgyn. I have an appt for End of March. My insurance only pays for a check up visit once a year. I will call tomorrow and see if they will make an exception since I am having pain and it is not for just a check up. I think they will make an exception.

Same thing for my mammography.

 

VALLEY, AND ANYONE ELSE,

 

ABOUT MY TAPER. OF COURSE YOU ARE RIGHT. I CAN NOT MAKE A LARGER CUT IF I AM GETTING WDSX WITH THE CUT I AM DOING NOW. What a dumb thought I had!

 

THE -02 cut I WAS doing RECENTLY was every Ten days or two weeks. Ok so now I see that became too fast as time piled up. So now I have to hold longer.

 

Also  I think you had suggested that I do a daily micro taper instead of cut and hold. Do you think it is wiser for me to try that? And what would you suggest the daily micro cut would be?  I know I will have to listen to my own body and I would have to decide fir myself, but I really dont know where to start.

If I did a .002 daily micro taper, wouldn't that be equal to the same as .02 every ten days?

 

Does it really make a big difference to ones brain if they cut .002 daily for ten days and then hold for a while rather than just do .02 cut and hold it there for ten days?  Or longer if wdsx ramp up?

 

And I thought I had this all figured out! LOL  Thanks for much help,

Heath....very confused

[[He...]]

Thought I'd separate my posts so as not to confuse things....

 

I read that benzodiazapines with long half lives tend to have longer half

lives in elder people.

Does that mean that an elder person's CNS will have the drug in their system longer, and that it will diminish more slowly? And does that mean that an elder person might have to hold a bit longer than a younger person to see if wdsx are going to ramp up from each of their cuts ?

 

Am I interpreting this correctly?

 

Heath

[[be...]]

Hey BG, I can only do simple today (like thats any change..)

 

The 100% final cut had me thinking too...

What i think it means (sorta a word play), is that no matter what our last dose is, when we jump, we are cutting ALL (100%) of the previous or last dose... -no matter the size...

 

Hope u r de-blipping...

Thanks CT, I am still mulling over that 100%, but think I will just not "Overthink" this, in the scheme of things it is just a little "thingy".

[[jr...]]

Hey BG, I can only do simple today (like thats any change..)

 

The 100% final cut had me thinking too...

What i think it means (sorta a word play), is that no matter what our last dose is, when we jump, we are cutting ALL (100%) of the previous or last dose... -no matter the size...

 

Hope u r de-blipping...

Thanks CT, I am still mulling over that 100%, but think I will just not "Overthink" this, in the scheme of things it is just a little "thingy".

 

If you taper to zero, then 100% of zero is zero.

[[be...]]

Hey BG, I can only do simple today (like thats any change..)

 

The 100% final cut had me thinking too...

What i think it means (sorta a word play), is that no matter what our last dose is, when we jump, we are cutting ALL (100%) of the previous or last dose... -no matter the size...

 

Hope u r de-blipping...

Thanks CT, I am still mulling over that 100%, but think I will just not "Overthink" this, in the scheme of things it is just a little "thingy".

 

If you taper to zero, then 100% of zero is zero.

Thanks jr, helps a lot. Hope you are doing well.

[[Va...]]

BEGOOD

thanks for the push to see my Obgyn. I have an appt for End of March. My insurance only pays for a check up visit once a year. I will call tomorrow and see if they will make an exception since I am having pain and it is not for just a check up. I think they will make an exception.

Same thing for my mammography.

 

VALLEY, AND ANYONE ELSE,

 

ABOUT MY TAPER. OF COURSE YOU ARE RIGHT. I CAN NOT MAKE A LARGER CUT IF I AM GETTING WDSX WITH THE CUT I AM DOING NOW. What a dumb thought I had!

 

THE -02 cut I WAS doing RECENTLY was every Ten days or two weeks. Ok so now I see that became too fast as time piled up. So now I have to hold longer.

 

Also  I think you had suggested that I do a daily micro taper instead of cut and hold. Do you think it is wiser for me to try that? And what would you suggest the daily micro cut would be?  I know I will have to listen to my own body and I would have to decide fir myself, but I really dont know where to start.

If I did a .002 daily micro taper, wouldn't that be equal to the same as .02 every ten days?

 

Does it really make a big difference to ones brain if they cut .002 daily for ten days and then hold for a while rather than just do .02 cut and hold it there for ten days?  Or longer if wdsx ramp up?

 

And I thought I had this all figured out! LOL  Thanks for much help,

Heath....very confused

Hi Heath. If you know your lag day, then you do a cutting cycle based on the lag day. For example, 10 days is usually my lag day. I get hit on day 3 and then again on day 10. Knowing that, I decided to do small cuts for ten days rather than shock my body with a larger cut all at once. It is easier on me to do it this way and you can also hold immediately if sxs are ramping up. I then hold for another 10 or more days to make sure the sxs are totally gone.

 

As far as metabolism, older people may or may not have a slower metabolism. Some older budddies are rapid metabolizerrs of V and some younger buddies are slow metabolozers. In the end it doesn't  really matter as long as your taper is symptom driven.  --V