The Long Hold Support Group

[[ho...]]

I accidentally put this in the wrong group so I'll put it again. Has anyone held longer than three months. I was at 6-7 klonopin in December 2015, dropped to 3-4 overnight, ten months later dropped to 2.5 klonopin and added 20 mgs valium (long story), did this drop overnight as well. I've been holding for a little over 3 months now and nervous about tolerance withdrawal. Have had some serious life stressor s throughout December and January , then caught flu. I know there's a whole tolerance withdrawal debate. But been on this dose now for over three months and it's making me nervous. Thank you Nicole

I've done 6 months and know many others have done longer.  --V

from 6-7 klonopin to 2.5 klonopin  plus 20 mgs valium in ten months in two cuts wasn't smart? Just joking. Thank you V Nicole

[[ga...]]

 

Ah, there you are, you silly critters. I've missed you!

[[ho...]]

Personally and for various reasons I have held longer than one is supposed to. I think it was Dr. Peart who said holding longer than 60 days is unnessesary.

But I also think this tolerance withdrawal thing is somewhat blown out of proportion too.

I have only ever felt much better and more stable with long holds.

 

My opinion only of course.

 

Peasce & Healing 🙏

 

ATU

thank you ATU

[[He...]]

I accidentally put this in the wrong group so I'll put it again. Has anyone held longer than three months. I was at 6-7 klonopin in December 2015, dropped to 3-4 overnight, ten months later dropped to 2.5 klonopin and added 20 mgs valium (long story), did this drop overnight as well. I've been holding for a little over 3 months now and nervous about tolerance withdrawal. Have had some serious life stressor s throughout December and January , then caught flu. I know there's a whole tolerance withdrawal debate. But been on this dose now for over three months and it's making me nervous. Thank you Nicole

 

 

I've done 6 months and know many others have done longer.  --V

from 6-7 klonopin to 2.5 klonopin  plus 20 mgs valium in ten months in two cuts wasn't smart? Just joking. Thank you V Nicole

 

Hi there Hopefreegirl,

I have done a 4 month + hold and never zperienced any tolerance withdrawal. It was explained to me that any sdx I get during my hold is just the bad sdx that a person gets from going to fast in the first place, as I did. During my hold, it did take a while for  my CNS to "heal" and catch up to those cuts, but it was just my CNS healing, not tolerance withdrawal.

Believe me, I know what tolerance is as I was in tolerance  before I started my taper and I had horrible inner shakes and trembles. That's when I decided to get off the drug (Valium) When I started my taper, and held for four months, then my awful shakes and trembles disappeared.

I don't believe in tolerance withdrawal. I have never gotten those shakes again even though i held for 4+ months. I am going slow in my taper and am not experiencng any symptoms of tolerance. As I said, I don't believe  in it.

Good luck HFG. I hope you see bright windows open up for you very soon.

 

Heath

[[ba...]]

Need guidance on switching to xnax xr from regular xnaax. I know there must be a group in here, but I can't find it. Any help is appreciated.

[[Va...]]

Need guidance on switching to xnax xr from regular xnaax. I know there must be a group in here, but I can't find it. Any help is appreciated.

Hi BD. Here is the Xanax support group.  I'm sure those tapering Xanax will chime in.  --V

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=74309.1220

[[He...]]

Hi everyone,

 

Just want to say ....

 

My switch from two doses a day to just dosing once a day is completed.

 

I've dosed only once a day, at bed time, for two days now. So far so good.

 

It sure is good to have all you buddies to show me how to do things!  I am so grateful!

 

Heath

[[He...]]

 

Ah, there you are, you silly critters. I've missed you!

 

Am I imagining things  or is that turtle actually smiling!

 

And a partially BLUE SHELL?

[[ga...]]

Hi everyone,

 

Just want to say ....

 

My switch from two doses a day to just dosing once a day is completed.

 

I've dosed only once a day, at bed time, for two days now. So far so good.

 

It sure is good to have all you buddies to show me how to do things!  I am so grateful!

 

Heath

 

Congratulations!!

[[ga...]]

 

Ah, there you are, you silly critters. I've missed you!

 

Am I imagining things  or is that turtle actually smiling!

 

And a partially BLUE SHELL?

 

Gosh, I never even noticed that before!

[[ho...]]

I accidentally put this in the wrong group so I'll put it again. Has anyone held longer than three months. I was at 6-7 klonopin in December 2015, dropped to 3-4 overnight, ten months later dropped to 2.5 klonopin and added 20 mgs valium (long story), did this drop overnight as well. I've been holding for a little over 3 months now and nervous about tolerance withdrawal. Have had some serious life stressor s throughout December and January , then caught flu. I know there's a whole tolerance withdrawal debate. But been on this dose now for over three months and it's making me nervous. Thank you Nicole

 

 

I've done 6 months and know many others have done longer.  --V

from 6-7 klonopin to 2.5 klonopin  plus 20 mgs valium in ten months in two cuts wasn't smart? Just joking. Thank you V Nicole

 

Hi there Hopefreegirl,

I have done a 4 month + hold and never zperienced any tolerance withdrawal. It was explained to me that any sdx I get during my hold is just the bad sdx that a person gets from going to fast in the first place, as I did. During my hold, it did take a while for  my CNS to "heal" and catch up to those cuts, but it was just my CNS healing, not tolerance withdrawal.

Believe me, I know what tolerance is as I was in tolerance  before I started my taper and I had horrible inner shakes and trembles. That's when I decided to get off the drug (Valium) When I started my taper, and held for four months, then my awful shakes and trembles disappeared.

I don't believe in tolerance withdrawal. I have never gotten those shakes again even though i held for 4+ months. I am going slow in my taper and am not experiencng any symptoms of tolerance. As I said, I don't believe  in it.

Good luck HFG. I hope you see bright windows open up for you very soon.

 

Heath

thank you heath for the reassurance. I think some of my symptoms have come back in this hold due to severe life stressors at the moment. I really never believed in the tolerance withdrawal thing once you've started tapering, just paranoid. Just past few days been feeling more anxiety than usual and did have mass panic attack with uncontrollable shaking but it was after an argument (prompted by her out of the blue) with someone who I thought was my friend, and just have gotten this impulsive frantic feeling because of indecisiveness about milk used for titration, ridiculous I know. But have home life stress right now so not helping but freaked when I had that panic attack other night thinking oh my god I've hit tolerance. But thank you for making me feel better about the situation. nicole

[[He...]]

 

Ah, there you are, you silly critters. I've missed you!

 

Am I imagining things  or is that turtle actually smiling!

 

And a partially BLUE SHELL?

 

Gosh, I never even noticed that before!

 

NOTHING surprises me anymore when it comes to anything to do with benzos. I just say... hang on and let it happen! Blue shelled smiling turtles, roosters riding on turtles, whatever! Next thing you know the turtle will lay an egg and a turtle with wings and feathers will hatch out.    Hey maybe that's why that turtle is smiling!

[[He...]]

I accidentally put this in the wrong group so I'll put it again. Has anyone held longer than three months. I was at 6-7 klonopin in December 2015, dropped to 3-4 overnight, ten months later dropped to 2.5 klonopin and added 20 mgs valium (long story), did this drop overnight as well. I've been holding for a little over 3 months now and nervous about tolerance withdrawal. Have had some serious life stressor s throughout December and January , then caught flu. I know there's a whole tolerance withdrawal debate. But been on this dose now for over three months and it's making me nervous. Thank you Nicole

 

 

I've done 6 months and know many others have done longer.  --V

from 6-7 klonopin to 2.5 klonopin  plus 20 mgs valium in ten months in two cuts wasn't smart? Just joking. Thank you V Nicole

 

Hi there Hopefreegirl,

I have done a 4 month + hold and never zperienced any tolerance withdrawal. It was explained to me that any sdx I get during my hold is just the bad sdx that a person gets from going to fast in the first place, as I did. During my hold, it did take a while for  my CNS to "heal" and catch up to those cuts, but it was just my CNS healing, not tolerance withdrawal.

Believe me, I know what tolerance is as I was in tolerance  before I started my taper and I had horrible inner shakes and trembles. That's when I decided to get off the drug (Valium) When I started my taper, and held for four months, then my awful shakes and trembles disappeared.

I don't believe in tolerance withdrawal. I have never gotten those shakes again even though i held for 4+ months. I am going slow in my taper and am not experiencng any symptoms of tolerance. As I said, I don't believe  in it.

Good luck HFG. I hope you see bright windows open up for you very soon.

 

Heath

thank you heath for the reassurance. I think some of my symptoms have come back in this hold due to severe life stressors at the moment. I really never believed in the tolerance withdrawal thing once you've started tapering, just paranoid. Just past few days been feeling more anxiety than usual and did have mass panic attack with uncontrollable shaking but it was after an argument (prompted by her out of the blue) with someone who I thought was my friend, and just have gotten this impulsive frantic feeling because of indecisiveness about milk used for titration, ridiculous I know. But have home life stress right now so not helping but freaked when I had that panic attack other night thinking oh my god I've hit tolerance. But thank you for making me feel better about the situation. nicole

 

 

You bet HFG! 

 

But I dont know anything about klonopin, but maybe others on thus forum who have experience with klonopin will chime in.

 

ValleyUm has a very good article that he posts about the positive effects of  long holds and he also addresses tolerance withdrawal. Actually it's right here on page 604. I suggest you read it, it will make you feel much better about long holds and also help you to stop worrying about tolerance withdrawal.

 

Best of luck . We are all here for you!

 

Heath

[[ho...]]

I accidentally put this in the wrong group so I'll put it again. Has anyone held longer than three months. I was at 6-7 klonopin in December 2015, dropped to 3-4 overnight, ten months later dropped to 2.5 klonopin and added 20 mgs valium (long story), did this drop overnight as well. I've been holding for a little over 3 months now and nervous about tolerance withdrawal. Have had some serious life stressor s throughout December and January , then caught flu. I know there's a whole tolerance withdrawal debate. But been on this dose now for over three months and it's making me nervous. Thank you Nicole

 

 

I've done 6 months and know many others have done longer.  --V

from 6-7 klonopin to 2.5 klonopin  plus 20 mgs valium in ten months in two cuts wasn't smart? Just joking. Thank you V Nicole

 

Hi there Hopefreegirl,

I have done a 4 month + hold and never zperienced any tolerance withdrawal. It was explained to me that any sdx I get during my hold is just the bad sdx that a person gets from going to fast in the first place, as I did. During my hold, it did take a while for  my CNS to "heal" and catch up to those cuts, but it was just my CNS healing, not tolerance withdrawal.

Believe me, I know what tolerance is as I was in tolerance  before I started my taper and I had horrible inner shakes and trembles. That's when I decided to get off the drug (Valium) When I started my taper, and held for four months, then my awful shakes and trembles disappeared.

I don't believe in tolerance withdrawal. I have never gotten those shakes again even though i held for 4+ months. I am going slow in my taper and am not experiencng any symptoms of tolerance. As I said, I don't believe  in it.

Good luck HFG. I hope you see bright windows open up for you very soon.

 

Heath

thank you heath for the reassurance. I think some of my symptoms have come back in this hold due to severe life stressors at the moment. I really never believed in the tolerance withdrawal thing once you've started tapering, just paranoid. Just past few days been feeling more anxiety than usual and did have mass panic attack with uncontrollable shaking but it was after an argument (prompted by her out of the blue) with someone who I thought was my friend, and just have gotten this impulsive frantic feeling because of indecisiveness about milk used for titration, ridiculous I know. But have home life stress right now so not helping but freaked when I had that panic attack other night thinking oh my god I've hit tolerance. But thank you for making me feel better about the situation. nicole

 

 

You bet HFG! 

 

But I dont know anything about klonopin, but maybe others on thus forum who have experience with klonopin will chime in.

 

ValleyUm has a very good article that he posts about the positive effects of  long holds and he also addresses tolerance withdrawal. Actually it's right here on page 604. I suggest you read it, it will make you feel much better about long holds and also help you to stop worrying about tolerance withdrawal.

 

Best of luck . We are all here for you!

 

Heath

I read valley ums post it made me feel better. Thank you heath!!

[[...]]

As we are on the subject of tolerance.....is it possible that I am/ could experience tolerance given I gave tapered so little and actually crossed to more than the usual K to V ratio( I crossed from .375 k to 10 mg V ) and have had such difficulty tapering .....

It might be hard to explain as so many things are with these benzos. I do my nervous system is very compromised still, but it was all through my cross from k to v.

 

I guess my gut feeling is , my body just doesn't like benzos for starters , duh, and this hold is helping my nervous system somewhat, it's just so slow it's hard to feel progress.

I've started having a lot of traveling pain.... This is new. The burning continues....back pain has mostly subsided from the kidney stone, relief. I notice I get tightness in my muscles AFTER I take my V doses.... Huh?

 

Thanks for all your support from the last post everyone....hope you are having as good a day as life allows ....

 

 

MiYu 

 

Heath  thanks for your post 

 

 

[[...]]

MiYu,

 

Your right, we have all been in the place before when we feel like doing nothing for fear of doing more than we can.

It is truly a feeling a false feeling but a real feeling.

During withdrawal and even while holding we are vulnerable to these thoughts, they can take control and we can become imobile in our own homes.

We have to not fight it but accept it, accept it as a false feeling and accept it. Dont give it more power by fighting or shrinking from it, just accept it and move through it.

 

We can still instruct our muscles to do our will and they will respond until our brains get functioning proper again. When we do this, accept direct our muscles to do our bidding even if its shaky at first, we make headway in taking back control and also help dissolve the fear.

 

This is not my theory, it is what I have read time and time again in different words in different decades. This is a real activity that can help.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU

 

 

 

Thank you ATU ...wise words. Something like brain retrainment I think?

[[Al...]]

Miyu,

 

Do you keep a daily log of your doses and symptoms?

 

I do this and it allows me to look back and see progress where I thought there was none.

 

Then again every cut brings on sxs and it seems I am experiencing the sxs for the first time all over again.

This is not the case of ourse, just another way these benzos fool us into chosing fear rather than hope trying to put us into a cycle of anxiety fear anxiety. I have fallen into this trap in past many times but acceptance, utter utter acceptance can and will bring escape from this cycle of fear / anxiety.

 

As more time passes we get to feeling better and see some light.

 

Meditate on healing, listen to possitive affirmations. Inner peace in in our grasp! 

 

Peace & Healing to you.

 

ATU

[[Va...]]

As we are on the subject of tolerance.....is it possible that I am/ could experience tolerance given I gave tapered so little and actually crossed to more than the usual K to V ratio( I crossed from .375 k to 10 mg V ) and have had such difficulty tapering .....

It might be hard to explain as so many things are with these benzos. I do my nervous system is very compromised still, but it was all through my cross from k to v.

 

I guess my gut feeling is , my body just doesn't like benzos for starters , duh, and this hold is helping my nervous system somewhat, it's just so slow it's hard to feel progress.

I've started having a lot of traveling pain.... This is new. The burning continues....back pain has mostly subsided from the kidney stone, relief. I notice I get tightness in my muscles AFTER I take my V doses.... Huh?

 

Thanks for all your support from the last post everyone....hope you are having as good a day as life allows ....

 

 

MiYu 

 

Heath  thanks for your post 

Hi MiYu. When I look at your signature it tells the story of why you may be struggling now. You crossed from K to V meaning you would experience K withdrawals even though you added V. You then may not have waited long enough to get really stable on the V before starting to taper. When you did start to taper, you cut .50mg at a time which although reasonable, is sometimes too big for some especially if they weren't stable prior to the cut. When the cuts catch up and you've destabilized your CNS in a big way, it can take a long time to recover. We sometimes end up with acute like sxs commonly seen in a rapid taper or CT even though we're still on the drug. When you look at how long it takes them to recover, a common time,frame is 6 months. It certainly took me that long to get to a,point where I could taper again. I hope the sxs you're having resolve soon! --V

[[Al...]]

Miyu,

 

What ValleyUm said is so true. It is not clear if you did a gradual cross to V. I did and it took me about 60 days to finally be off A and totally on V. The V in particular takes time to build up in your system. This is why the cross should be slow and gradual.

 

At any rate I have a hunch your going to be feeling better real soon. 

 

Hugs:

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU

[[Ki...]]

We also have to remember the crossover amounts are just an estimate- everyone is different and that can put some people into a problem. My " ashton equiv" of my doses of xanax and ambien was 13.6 V but as I crossed I had to cut more than cross because my doc wouldnt give me that much valium and wanted me to cut much quicker than recommended here. I did cross quicker ending up at 11 V and it was tough for a while. Also I didnt hold long enough. Whats done is done but if my doc had reassured me instead of rushing me things could have been easier. So that could be part of your problem- and if so, eventually it will straighten out. Just listen to your inner autopilot. Good luck!

[[He...]]

Hello everyone,  Well, I WAS doing great....I think I jinxed myself.

 

Things can really change from day to day alright!

 

Neck ache keeps coming and going and I'm usd to that.

But an occasional headache is becoming a daily thing and getting more severe.

 

I remember having daily headaches back in December 2015, before I was even tapering, but did not associate it with Benzos.

 

But now when I look back, I remember  I was having inner shakes and  trembles back then and headaches and insomnia. I believe I had reached tolerance at the dose I was at. That's when I decided that I had to get off of the Valium completely. Now I think the sdx I had back then were indeed related to the Valium.

 

So now I am pretty sure these headaches are from withdrawal. The fiorinal I have for migraines doesn't even take the headache away.  Besides I don't want to take fiorinal, these are NOT migraines.( thank goodness for that!)

So I guess I need to use ice again.. Aspirin and/or Tylenol only helps a little. Aleve and ibuprophen do nothing!

Maybe I'm going too fast in my taper... but how much slower can I Go??

 

Well it looks like I'm going to hold for a while til these headaches subside.

 

Just when I thought I had it all the under control! ........Surprise!

 

Advice? Remedies? Anyone?

 

Heath

 

A thought.... this couldn't be from changing my dose from twice a day to once a day, could it?  That doesn't make sense, does it?

[[...]]

Thank you ATU , Valley and Kittybean..... I always feel relief when I read your responses and it helps me so much to trust in the healing process.

Acceptance , yes, so true ATU. I actually listened to a Tibetan monk on YouTube last night talking and demonstrating chi gong. He started out with acceptance, not trying to change what your experience is in the moment , pain , pleasures, whatever . He  even mentioned how feeling everything as energy can  help with medication side effects , and not judging anything good or bad. I guess it's mindfulness technique too. It actually took me three months to make my cross from k to v . It was brutal the whole time. Bad K WDs .

I do keep a log and symptoms diary.  as I haven't been cutting for a while now I haven't needed the taper log, so I just make notes when I feel changes . I know things have gotten easier in some ways , just my nervous system is insanely sensitive , and I do think it's going to be awhile before it heals and settles enough that I can start tapering again.

 

And Valley you are right, I didn't give my nervous system a chance to stabilize after making the cross. I figured because it took me so long that it would be ok to jump right in , plus I was just starting the taper journey and thought .5 mg month would be fine. I guess it's always trial error until we find what works for each of us.

 

Thanks kitty , I'm sorry your doctor rushed you I hope you are doing better now?

 

MiYu

 

Ps , I just got word that my appeal for SSI was approved , yay! It's taken over a year and quite an ordeal, I can hardly believe it... I was so excited it made me feel really sick! Poor nerves can't handle anything  but it's a relief that it's done at last.

 

 

[[...]]

Well, I was doing great....I think I jinxed myself.

 

Things can really change from day o day alright!

 

Neck ache keeps coming and going and I'm usd to that.

But an occasional headache is becoming a daily thing and getting more severe.

 

I remember having daily headaches back in December 2015, before I was even tapering, but did not associate it with Benzos.

 

But now when I look back, I remember  I was having inner shakes and  trembles back then and headaches and insomnia. I believe I had reached tolerance at the dose I was at. That's when I decided that I had to get off of the Valium completely. Now I think the sdx I had back then were indeed related to the Valium.

 

So now I am pretty sure these headaches are from withdrawal. The fiorinal I have for migraines doesn't even take the headache away.  Besides I don't want to take fiorinal, these are not migraines.

So I guess I need to use ice again.. Aspirin and/or Tylenol only helps a little. Aleve and ibuprophen do nothing!

Maybe I'm going to fast in my taper... but how much slower can I Go??

 

Well it looks like I'm going to hold for a while til these headaches subside.

 

Just when I thought I had it all the under control! ........Surprise!

 

Heath

 

I'm sorry Heath....I've seen you go from feeling great to having pains and symptoms back and forth a lot , so I hope this one will pass quickly and go away 

[[Va...]]

If it's any consolation Heath, I get terrible headaches off and on even when I'm doing really well with everything else symptom wise.  --V

[[ly...]]

 

 

MiYu,

 

Excellent news!