The Long Hold Support Group

[[ga...]]

Agree about Ashton, lynn. She was the first to challenge the benzo-pushers and create a successful tapering plan, and we owe her our lives, but much has been discovered about tapering since then. She only did cut and hold pill splitting. One of the reasons she crossed to valium was because it came in such low-dose pills, so could more easily be split. She did cut and hold in what was considered a slow taper back then but is now considered too fast by the benzo-wise community. Since Ashton, we have learned about liquid titration that can cut any drug by the tiniest amounts needed. And most benzo-wise tapering experts say to stick to 10%/month. Yes, much has changed as we have learned more and more.

 

From all the reading I have done, and from my own experience, I would say the best route is to choose cut and hold or daily MT with the drug you are on. Start at 5% and work up to 10%/month. Incorporate holds to give your brain a rest when needed. If this fails, do a very slow crossover. If your doctor will allow, try a partial crossover. (I was on part Librium and part Xanax for many months while I continued to taper the Xanax.) If all else fails, do a full crossover to Valium (or Librium, but it's a nuisance to cut). Do it slowly. Hold and stabilize when you have finished your crossover. Then start up your taper again.

 

On a tangent, I have given this hold thing more thought. I wonder if regular short holds should become a normal part of the process, especially for daily MT. Our brains like stability. During a daily MT, there is change every day. It is a small change, but it is a change. Holding for a week after a few weeks of cutting would give the brain a week of stability, a week of rest. Perhaps that would enable people to taper more successfully with fewer symptoms and to step off without prolonged w/d. And perhaps if we did this from the beginning, we wouldn't need to do 6-months holds. Just a thought I had the other day.

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

.

On a tangent, I have given this hold thing more thought. I wonder if regular short holds should become a normal part of the process, especially for daily MT. Our brains like stability. During a daily MT, there is change every day. It is a small change, but it is a change. Holding for a week after a few weeks of cutting would give the brain a week of stability, a week of rest. Perhaps that would enable people to taper more successfully with fewer symptoms and to step off without prolonged w/d. And perhaps if we did this from the beginning, we wouldn't need to do 6-months holds. Just a thought I had the other day.

 

Gard

This is how I'm tapering gard and it's working great for me.  --V

[[Ki...]]

Thats me as well. Slow M/T ( about .5 mg V every 5/6 wks) with holds any time I start to feel off kilter or have something out of the ordinary to do. It took a while to figure it out and I am still tweaking it since I am a rapid metabolizer ( which- seriously- my doc does not believe in!)-but for many of us it does take some trial and error to get where we can find what works well for us. Or as good as it can.

[[jr...]]

I updosed twice during my taper because I cut too fast. I also held for a month when I switched to liquid. We have to go slow enough for our body to adjust to the new dose. Sometimes small cuts take a while to show up. I really found I had a 4-5 day lag time on Xanax which has a very short half life. This was confirmed after I jumped in that I had 4 days great before the sxs reared their ugly head!

[[ly...]]

 

 

So Kitty, is the grapefruit juice slowing the metabolism?  I know that I am not supposed to drink it b/c of Lipitor.  I heard that it affects many meds.  I shouldn't have been drinking it in the past.  I also didn't know that Prozac ups the potency of Xanax by 40 or 50% (IIRC).

 

I'm switching to liquid daily micro taper next week and was just thinking about going 10 or 15 days and then holding 5 - just to make sure wd is not going to catch up with me.

[[ly...]]

 

 

jr,

 

How are you doing?  It looks like you took it very slow.  Are your sxs worse than they were during your taper?

[[He...]]

Lynne, I have heard that grapefruit juice interacts with many meds. I hate the stuff, so it ok with me that I am not supposed to drink it.

[[Ki...]]

 

 

So Kitty, is the grapefruit juice slowing the metabolism?  I know that I am not supposed to drink it b/c of Lipitor.  I heard that it affects many meds.  I shouldn't have been drinking it in the past.  I also didn't know that Prozac ups the potency of Xanax by 40 or 50% (IIRC).

 

I'm switching to liquid daily micro taper next week and was just thinking about going 10 or 15 days and then holding 5 - just to make sure wd is not going to catch up with me.

Yes it works on one of the pathways valium goes through. I never could taper faster using it but it does help a dose to last a full day instead of splitting it up into 4 to 6 doses a day. Had I known that initially I might have just stayed on xanax! But Im glad I didnt. Sadly it also makes estrogen hang around longer so I put on 10 pounds too, so Im still adjusting. Right now Im at a teaspoon at breakfast and at bedtime.

[[jr...]]

 

 

jr,

 

How are you doing?  It looks like you took it very slow.  Are your sxs worse than they were during your taper?

 

I am really doing remarkably well. when I jumped , I had a honeymoon period of about 4 days, then 5 days of &^%^&* and after that it has been improving day by day. thanks for asking. I am glad to see you are starting a liquid taper. It really is the easiest way to reduce. Even when the sxs ramp up, I just kept cutting my.01ml everyday and the sxs went away by themselves. that happened 6 or 7 times during the taper.

[[ly...]]

 

 

Just wonderful news jr!  :thumbsup:

[[...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

[[Va...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

How long have you held MiYu? I know from my own experience it can take quite some time before you start to feel consistently better. I'm actually finding tapering much easier after the hold. I feel a little better with every reduction which I would never have believed last year. I thought I was going to be miserable all the way down.

 

Hang in there! --V

[[...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

How long have you held MiYu? I know from my own experience it can take quite some time before you start to feel consistently better. I'm actually finding tapering much easier after the hold. I feel a little better with every reduction which I would never have believed last year. I thought I was going to be miserable all the way down.

 

Hang in there! --V

 

Thanks V...... At the end of sept I cut 1/4 mg..... Then after about six weeks i attempted a little microtaper 1/16th mg ..... I've been mostly in one big housebound wave ever since . Not that before was much easier . My symptoms started pretty much right away when I began my taper ,I was never stable, even before the taper, but I had spent 3 months crossing to V and that was hellish. Once I finished the cross I was better than I had been , but I guess I didn't give my body much chance to stabilize from the cross.

So , aside from the 1/16 th mg mid November , it's 3-1/2 months since the 1/4 mg cut, and if you count the 1/16 th then 2 months holding . Not long I suppose , just shocking how that tiny amount affected me.

[[Va...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

How long have you held MiYu? I know from my own experience it can take quite some time before you start to feel consistently better. I'm actually finding tapering much easier after the hold. I feel a little better with every reduction which I would never have believed last year. I thought I was going to be miserable all the way down.

 

Hang in there! --V

 

Thanks V...... At the end of sept I cut 1/4 mg..... Then after about six weeks i attempted a little microtaper 1/16th mg ..... I've been mostly in one big housebound wave ever since . Not that before was much easier . My symptoms started pretty much right away when I began my taper ,I was never stable, even before the taper, but I had spent 3 months crossing to V and that was hellish. Once I finished the cross I was better than I had been , but I guess I didn't give my body much chance to stabilize from the cross.

So , aside from the 1/16 th mg mid November , it's 3-1/2 months since the 1/4 mg cut, and if you count the 1/16 th then 2 months holding . Not long I suppose , just shocking how that tiny amount affected me.

It's certainly crazy how much a tiny cut can send you spiraling when you're not quite stable yet. If it were me, I'd definitely hold as long as it takes to feel good. You want to be able to get out of the house, feel energy and emotion as well as have clear thinking. If I hadn't held for as long as I did and just kept cutting, I'd be bed bound and pretty much disabled right now.  --V

[[ga...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

How long have you held MiYu? I know from my own experience it can take quite some time before you start to feel consistently better. I'm actually finding tapering much easier after the hold. I feel a little better with every reduction which I would never have believed last year. I thought I was going to be miserable all the way down.

 

Hang in there! --V

 

Thanks V...... At the end of sept I cut 1/4 mg..... Then after about six weeks i attempted a little microtaper 1/16th mg ..... I've been mostly in one big housebound wave ever since . Not that before was much easier . My symptoms started pretty much right away when I began my taper ,I was never stable, even before the taper, but I had spent 3 months crossing to V and that was hellish. Once I finished the cross I was better than I had been , but I guess I didn't give my body much chance to stabilize from the cross.

So , aside from the 1/16 th mg mid November , it's 3-1/2 months since the 1/4 mg cut, and if you count the 1/16 th then 2 months holding . Not long I suppose , just shocking how that tiny amount affected me.

It's certainly crazy how much a tiny cut can send you spiraling when you're not quite stable yet. If it were me, I'd definitely hold as long as it takes to feel good. You want to be able to get out of the house, feel energy and emotion as well as have clear thinking. If I hadn't held for as long as I did and just kept cutting, I'd be bed bound and pretty much disabled right now.  --V

 

I made the same mistake, Miyu and it took 6 months to recover from it. But I did recover. You will, too. Hang in there!

 

Gard

[[...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

How long have you held MiYu? I know from my own experience it can take quite some time before you start to feel consistently better. I'm actually finding tapering much easier after the hold. I feel a little better with every reduction which I would never have believed last year. I thought I was going to be miserable all the way down.

 

Hang in there! --V

 

Thanks V...... At the end of sept I cut 1/4 mg..... Then after about six weeks i attempted a little microtaper 1/16th mg ..... I've been mostly in one big housebound wave ever since . Not that before was much easier . My symptoms started pretty much right away when I began my taper ,I was never stable, even before the taper, but I had spent 3 months crossing to V and that was hellish. Once I finished the cross I was better than I had been , but I guess I didn't give my body much chance to stabilize from the cross.

So , aside from the 1/16 th mg mid November , it's 3-1/2 months since the 1/4 mg cut, and if you count the 1/16 th then 2 months holding . Not long I suppose , just shocking how that tiny amount affected me.

It's certainly crazy how much a tiny cut can send you spiraling when you're not quite stable yet. If it were me, I'd definitely hold as long as it takes to feel good. You want to be able to get out of the house, feel energy and emotion as well as have clear thinking. If I hadn't held for as long as I did and just kept cutting, I'd be bed bound and pretty much disabled right now.  --V

 

You were very courageous to hold and stay with it, very hard to do not knowing the outcome . But , when one reaches a point where the suffering is just not acceptable , then really what choice do we have? Certainly holding is my first choice over other possibilities for now ...... I hope my body will appreciate the hold as yours did . I wish I had been in better health to start out , unfortunately that was not the case, so I have some catching up to do.

Thank you valley for your always consistent belief and support for holding and healing.

[[...]]

HI all, this is an interesting topic.... The holds and up dosing and what works and what doesn't.

I've been having a really horrible week.... It's scary.... I feel so awful and I'm scared it's not going to go away, or that Valium just isn't working for me.

Well, I'm on it now and I can't imagine switching back to a different benzo.

I suppose I'll just keep holding on and pray things improve . I so want  to stabilize . I question now whether crossing to V was the right move, but it's too late now.

I know we all heal eventually and I hold on to that thought.

 

Hugs to everyone

MiYu

Heath - thank you for your heartfelt support , I hope you are feeling ok 

How long have you held MiYu? I know from my own experience it can take quite some time before you start to feel consistently better. I'm actually finding tapering much easier after the hold. I feel a little better with every reduction which I would never have believed last year. I thought I was going to be miserable all the way down.

 

Hang in there! --V

 

Thanks V...... At the end of sept I cut 1/4 mg..... Then after about six weeks i attempted a little microtaper 1/16th mg ..... I've been mostly in one big housebound wave ever since . Not that before was much easier . My symptoms started pretty much right away when I began my taper ,I was never stable, even before the taper, but I had spent 3 months crossing to V and that was hellish. Once I finished the cross I was better than I had been , but I guess I didn't give my body much chance to stabilize from the cross.

So , aside from the 1/16 th mg mid November , it's 3-1/2 months since the 1/4 mg cut, and if you count the 1/16 th then 2 months holding . Not long I suppose , just shocking how that tiny amount affected me.

It's certainly crazy how much a tiny cut can send you spiraling when you're not quite stable yet. If it were me, I'd definitely hold as long as it takes to feel good. You want to be able to get out of the house, feel energy and emotion as well as have clear thinking. If I hadn't held for as long as I did and just kept cutting, I'd be bed bound and pretty much disabled right now.  --V

 

I made the same mistake, Miyu and it took 6 months to recover from it. But I did recover. You will, too. Hang in there!

 

Gard

 

Thank you dear Gard 

[[Al...]]

I feel just wretched, today I went to a dental appoint. Its an hours drive away. As soon as I got there I startedd to feel shakey. My name was called and I sat in the chair. I told my dentist of my anxiety and lets go over again what we are doing today. He said about two hours of work. I didnt like that but I agreed to get started and lets see how it goes.

He put a large dollop of freezing gey on my gums and most of it went down my throat. It started freezing my swallow reflex and soon I could not swallow at all. I panicked and messed up the entire proceedure. They sent me home with a referral to a Dentist who puts you out for your work.

 

I was so dissappointed in myself.

 

My weekend prior was bad too. My youngest son got into a fight with my wife and I had to intervene and he threatened to cause physical harm, first to us then to himself. Had to call cops. It was all very unsettling.

 

My life sucks right now!

 

Peace & Healing to all.

 

ATU

[[Va...]]

I feel just wretched, today I went to a dental appoint. Its an hours drive away. As soon as I got there I startedd to feel shakey. My name was called and I sat in the chair. I told my dentist of my anxiety and lets go over again what we are doing today. He said about two hours of work. I didnt like that but I agreed to get started and lets see how it goes.

He put a large dollop of freezing gey on my gums and most of it went down my throat. It started freezing my swallow reflex and soon I could not swallow at all. I panicked and messed up the entire proceedure. They sent me home with a referral to a Dentist who puts you out for your work.

 

I was so dissappointed in myself.

 

My weekend prior was bad too. My youngest son got into a fight with my wife and I had to intervene and he threatened to cause physical harm, first to us then to himself. Had to call cops. It was all very unsettling.

 

My life sucks right now!

 

Peace & Healing to all.

 

ATU

Sorry for the stressful day ATU. Hopefully everything will calm down and be smoother for you.  --V

[[be...]]

I feel just wretched, today I went to a dental appoint. Its an hours drive away. As soon as I got there I startedd to feel shakey. My name was called and I sat in the chair. I told my dentist of my anxiety and lets go over again what we are doing today. He said about two hours of work. I didnt like that but I agreed to get started and lets see how it goes.

He put a large dollop of freezing gey on my gums and most of it went down my throat. It started freezing my swallow reflex and soon I could not swallow at all. I panicked and messed up the entire proceedure. They sent me home with a referral to a Dentist who puts you out for your work.

 

I was so dissappointed in myself.

 

My weekend prior was bad too. My youngest son got into a fight with my wife and I had to intervene and he threatened to cause physical harm, first to us then to himself. Had to call cops. It was all very unsettling.

 

My life sucks right now!

 

Peace & Healing to all.

 

ATU

Sorry for the stressful day ATU. Hopefully everything will calm down and be smoother for you.  --V

Sorry ATU, it may not help at all but I am not disappointed in you, firstly you went to a very stressful place, and then having the freezing gel go down your throat, jeez sounds like you did the best you could, I do not like going to Dentist, but I do and I have had some things that went haywire too, and sorry about your weekend also. there is nothing easy about getting off of benzo's, because we still have a Life that we have to show up for. Try not to be so hard on yourself. {{{Hug}}}

[[Al...]]

Begood,

 

Your very kind to offer thise words of support.

I used to go to the dentist without incident but during WD it seems 100 times harder.

I felt bad because my wife came along to go shopping inthat town and I had to call to fetch me early,..

I feel I made a coward of myself in her eyes. Im probably overreavting but hey! Thats all part of benzo WD as well. 

 

Appreciate the hug, I needed it

 

 

ATU

[[be...]]

Begood,

 

Your very kind to offer thise words of support.

I used to go to the dentist without incident but during WD it seems 100 times harder.

I felt bad because my wife came along to go shopping inthat town and I had to call to fetch me early,..

I feel I made a coward of myself in her eyes. Im probably overreavting but hey! Thats all part of benzo WD as well. 

 

Appreciate the hug, I needed it

 

 

ATU

Hang in there.

[[ga...]]

Have to agree that dentists are dreadful! Even if I just get a checkup my symptoms go up! I have read over and over on this forum about people being stressed to death by dentists during w/d. You are not alone, ATU!

 

Gard

[[wa...]]

Hello ladies,

 

I don't post here often but I have read most of this thread and needed to post. I seem to be getting small brief cycles every two weeks. My hormones are every where and I feel crazy. Feel super down with intrusive thoughts magnified. Super sad and emotional. I am feeling so tired of this struggle. I remind myself I am in withdrawal, that its the f'ing drugs, etc..., but I feel weak. I need some support from others who understand. Thank you for listening. I hope you are all finding some relief. 

 

Warrior

[[Ki...]]

Hi Warrior (I love your user name),

 

Welcome to the thread! You aren't weak....not at all....but I can empathize with feeling that way.

 

As you can see from the other members on this thread, changes in your menstrual cycle are very common. You'll find lots of support on this thread