The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

Brain still not working...Now I am "thinking out loud."

 

I take my L in 5mg capsules. I take 3 whole capsules and 3 dissolved capsules every day. Each dose is one part capsule and one part liquid.

 

So that's 30mg/day spread into 3 doses. (Right?)

 

Now I have tapered away an insignificant amount of the liquid so lets just pretend I'm still at 30mg.

 

The liquid is dissolving 5mg to make 100ml of liquid.

 

I started at removing .2ml from each dose. I have inched up over about a month to removing .6ml of liquid from each dose each day. Times 3 = reducing 1.8ml/day.

 

And that's where my brain stops.

 

What percent per month is this?

 

Also, how did you decide to do MT and holds rather than just do the 7% (or whatever) as consistent cuts all month?

 

Thanks!

 

5mg/100ml=.05mg per ml

1.8ml x 30 days =54ml

54ml x .05= 2.7mg

2.7 / 30 = .09 or 9%

Yeah, what jr.  said. 

[[He...]]

Hello, since we are talking math...

 

Help me out here please

 

Startinat 1.16 mg

Cutting .04 (3.44%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.12 mg after 2 weeks

 

Then starting at 1.12mg

Cutting .04 (3.57%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.08 mg after 4 weeks

 

That would be a total  cut of about 7% in  4 weeks.

 

And I will wait until my pins and needles are all gone.

 

Is my math right?

 

Am I cutting too fast being that I am low in my dose.

I am fighting not to go too fast but am thinking I don't want to go to slow.

I will of course stop if my sxs start coming on. And hold longer if necessary.

But is this reasonable to try? Is it too ambitious and really to fast and stupid?

I don't want my benzo brain to control my better judgement.

 

I will try a micro taper once I get past this. I just want to be closer to 1 mg before I start my mt. Is that dumb?

 

Heath.

 

 

[[ga...]]

Brain still not working...Now I am "thinking out loud."

 

I take my L in 5mg capsules. I take 3 whole capsules and 3 dissolved capsules every day. Each dose is one part capsule and one part liquid.

 

So that's 30mg/day spread into 3 doses. (Right?)

 

Now I have tapered away an insignificant amount of the liquid so lets just pretend I'm still at 30mg.

 

The liquid is dissolving 5mg to make 100ml of liquid.

 

I started at removing .2ml from each dose. I have inched up over about a month to removing .6ml of liquid from each dose each day. Times 3 = reducing 1.8ml/day.

 

And that's where my brain stops.

 

What percent per month is this?

 

Also, how did you decide to do MT and holds rather than just do the 7% (or whatever) as consistent cuts all month?

 

Thanks!

 

5mg/100ml=.05mg per ml

1.8ml x 30 days =54ml

54ml x .05= 2.7mg

2.7 / 30 = .09 or 9%

Yeah, what jr.  said. 

 

Got it. I am barely below the magic 10%.

 

Curious still about what the benefit is to cutting at a faster rate and then holding and then cutting again to hit your percent/month mark vs. just cutting at the slower rate consistently? What am I missing here?

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

Brain still not working...Now I am "thinking out loud."

 

I take my L in 5mg capsules. I take 3 whole capsules and 3 dissolved capsules every day. Each dose is one part capsule and one part liquid.

 

So that's 30mg/day spread into 3 doses. (Right?)

 

Now I have tapered away an insignificant amount of the liquid so lets just pretend I'm still at 30mg.

 

The liquid is dissolving 5mg to make 100ml of liquid.

 

I started at removing .2ml from each dose. I have inched up over about a month to removing .6ml of liquid from each dose each day. Times 3 = reducing 1.8ml/day.

 

And that's where my brain stops.

 

What percent per month is this?

 

Also, how did you decide to do MT and holds rather than just do the 7% (or whatever) as consistent cuts all month?

 

Thanks!

 

5mg/100ml=.05mg per ml

1.8ml x 30 days =54ml

54ml x .05= 2.7mg

2.7 / 30 = .09 or 9%

Yeah, what jr.  said. 

 

Got it. I am barely below the magic 10%.

 

Curious still about what the benefit is to cutting at a faster rate and then holding and then cutting again to hit your percent/month mark vs. just cutting at the slower rate consistently? What am I missing here?

 

Gard

It all depends on how your body responds gard. I tried the cutting without pausing.  Even lowered the cut rate to see if I could keep cutting but I've found I can't cut without pausing every cut cycle.  Even with a smaller daily cut I was still getting the same sxs so I just stick with a certain rate for 10 days and then hold. Some seem to be able to cut daily without issues but I always feel the benzo flu coming on when I do it so I'm being extra cautious. Still have PTSD from last year's disaster when I reduce 42% in just a little over a month.  --V

[[jr...]]

Hello, since we are talking math...

 

Help me out here please

 

Startinat 1.16 mg

Cutting .04 (3.44%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.12 mg after 2 weeks

 

Then starting at 1.12mg

Cutting .04 (3.57%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.08 mg after 4 weeks

 

That would be a total  cut of about 7% in  4 weeks.

 

And I will wait until my pins and needles are all gone.

 

Is my math right?

 

Am I cutting too fast being that I am low in my dose.

I am fighting not to go too fast but am thinking I don't want to go to slow.

I will of course stop if my sxs start coming on. And hold longer if necessary.

But is this reasonable to try? Is it too ambitious and really to fast and stupid?

I don't want my benzo brain to control my better judgement.

 

I will try a micro taper once I get past this. I just want to be closer to 1 mg before I start my mt. Is that dumb?

 

Heath.

 

your numbers are correct.

[[be...]]

Brain still not working...Now I am "thinking out loud."

 

I take my L in 5mg capsules. I take 3 whole capsules and 3 dissolved capsules every day. Each dose is one part capsule and one part liquid.

 

So that's 30mg/day spread into 3 doses. (Right?)

 

Now I have tapered away an insignificant amount of the liquid so lets just pretend I'm still at 30mg.

 

The liquid is dissolving 5mg to make 100ml of liquid.

 

I started at removing .2ml from each dose. I have inched up over about a month to removing .6ml of liquid from each dose each day. Times 3 = reducing 1.8ml/day.

 

And that's where my brain stops.

 

What percent per month is this?

 

Also, how did you decide to do MT and holds rather than just do the 7% (or whatever) as consistent cuts all month?

 

Thanks!

 

5mg/100ml=.05mg per ml

1.8ml x 30 days =54ml

54ml x .05= 2.7mg

2.7 / 30 = .09 or 9%

Yeah, what jr.  said. 

 

Got it. I am barely below the magic 10%.

 

Curious still about what the benefit is to cutting at a faster rate and then holding and then cutting again to hit your percent/month mark vs. just cutting at the slower rate consistently? What am I missing here?

 

Gard

It all depends on how your body responds gard. I tried the cutting without pausing.  Even lowered the cut rate to see if I could keep cutting but I've found I can't cut without pausing every cut cycle.  Even with a smaller daily cut I was still getting the same sxs so I just stick with a certain rate for 10 days and then hold. Some seem to be able to cut daily without issues but I always feel the benzo flu coming on when I do it so I'm being extra cautious. Still have PTSD from last year's disaster when I reduce 42% in just a little over a month.  --V

42%, gee V we are lucky to have you as our Leader, gosh that is a lot, and I am thinking it had to be rough.

[[ga...]]

 

It all depends on how your body responds gard. I tried the cutting without pausing.  Even lowered the cut rate to see if I could keep cutting but I've found I can't cut without pausing every cut cycle.  Even with a smaller daily cut I was still getting the same sxs so I just stick with a certain rate for 10 days and then hold. Some seem to be able to cut daily without issues but I always feel the benzo flu coming on when I do it so I'm being extra cautious. Still have PTSD from last year's disaster when I reduce 42% in just a little over a month.  --V

 

So you find you can cut more with fewer symptoms with the MT-hold-MT hold approach. That is interesting. I think I may be heading that way, but it is discouraging to put those holds in.

 

Can I ask how your PTSD manifests and how you cope?

 

Gard

[[be...]]

Hello, since we are talking math...

 

Help me out here please

 

Startinat 1.16 mg

Cutting .04 (3.44%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.12 mg after 2 weeks

 

Then starting at 1.12mg

Cutting .04 (3.57%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.08 mg after 4 weeks

 

That would be a total  cut of about 7% in  4 weeks.

 

And I will wait until my pins and needles are all gone.

 

Is my math right?

 

Am I cutting too fast being that I am low in my dose.

I am fighting not to go too fast but am thinking I don't want to go to slow.

I will of course stop if my sxs start coming on. And hold longer if necessary.

But is this reasonable to try? Is it too ambitious and really to fast and stupid?

I don't want my benzo brain to control my better judgement.

 

I will try a micro taper once I get past this. I just want to be closer to 1 mg before I start my mt. Is that dumb?

 

Heath.

I know when I was intent on getting to 1mg I noticed more blippys and I would advise anyone trying to get to a lower dose, just because they want to be at 1mg, , "Don't" take your time...., I am a bit confused, you are fighting not going too fast, but do not want to go slow, think about this, what was the problems you had before just saying. But then again getting to 1mg may not bother you at all.

[[be...]]

Valley we are using your Teaching skills, when I posted with my questions, about my lig taper amt, didn't we figure out that I was cutting 5%, I hope that is right, I can't find the post, Oh now I think I know why, but maybe you remember.

[[Va...]]

Valley we are using your Teaching skills, when I posted with my questions, about my lig taper amt, didn't we figure out that I was cutting 5%, I hope that is right, I can't find the post, Oh now I think I know why, but maybe you remember.

Yes. I believe that's what we figured.  --V

[[bl...]]

Does anyone have ongoing foot cramps and really sore feet? The soreness was one of my tolerance symptoms and I was so happy when it went away--but then moved into my hands---and now it's back--in my feet. I did cut from 6.5 valium to 6 about 6 weeks ago and have no plans to make another cut anytime soon. I'm just worried as it seems no matter how long I hold, the s/x keep returning--which, of course, sparks health anxiety and makes me want to run in for another round of MRI's, etc.....Seriously, it hurts to walk. Even my calves and ankles hurt but the bottom of my feet feel as if I ran a marathon--and I haven't--unless walking to my car is a marathon.

Has anyone experienced this? Does it ever go away for good?

[[He...]]

Hi Bluepill,

 

I cannot speak directly to your experience with foot pain, but I certainly can address your fear that something else may be wrong. These benzos for wierd things and they can scare you heedlessly.

 

I have had cervical spine issues before I started my taper so of course when my neck started to hurt i thought it was my spinal issues acting up again. The pain in my neck was constant, reLly bad, and I wore a soft neck collar for about 75%of the tine. It lasted a good 6 months. I went to the neurosurgeon surgeon who had done my back surgery and he assured me it was not from my spine.

Then out of no where, after 6 months (just recently) the neck started to subside. Don't know why. I didn't think it woukd ever go away. But it finally did.

Now I have pins and needles in both arms, hands , and fingers. Go figure!  These benzo are wierd! Sometimes a sx will stay for a pretty long time. Sometimes a cut will get rid of it. Sometimes a new sx will take its place. Sometimes an old sx will return.

 

You can go and have it checked out just to be sure, but IMO, your foot pain is most likely another wierd sfx.

I know it's scary not to be sure. But hang n there and it will probably disappear.

 

I get a sfx every time I cut. It usually lasts fir a week. But sometimes they can last pretty darn long!

 

So just try to accept and stop worrying, easier said than done I know. I hope your foot and other pains subside and you have relief real soon.

 

Heath

[[bl...]]

Thanks, Heathcliff. I cant sleep b/c foot cramps are so bad tonight. Nice to see a response. So sick of this mess. I hope the numbness stops soon for you.

Blue

[[be...]]

[glow=red,2,300]"Welcome Blue"[/glow] there will be more on later and you will get some answers.

[[Va...]]

Does anyone have ongoing foot cramps and really sore feet? The soreness was one of my tolerance symptoms and I was so happy when it went away--but then moved into my hands---and now it's back--in my feet. I did cut from 6.5 valium to 6 about 6 weeks ago and have no plans to make another cut anytime soon. I'm just worried as it seems no matter how long I hold, the s/x keep returning--which, of course, sparks health anxiety and makes me want to run in for another round of MRI's, etc.....Seriously, it hurts to walk. Even my calves and ankles hurt but the bottom of my feet feel as if I ran a marathon--and I haven't--unless walking to my car is a marathon.

Has anyone experienced this? Does it ever go away for good?

Hi bluepill. This is exactly one of the worst sxs I have but it's only on the right side. I've had it since before I started to taper and it just got worse when I started. My ankle and calf are very sore as well as the bottom of my foot. It feels like I'm walking on a golf ball. The severity of the pain depends on the day. I'm pretty sure its withdrawal related as I never had this problem before benzos. Foot massage helps a lot. Hope you get some relief soon!  --V

[[so...]]

Bluepill, would it help you to wear orthopedic boots during sleep, to maybe help with the foot cramps?

[[Al...]]

I personally d not get foot cramps or soreness but I have often read that it can be a symptom of withdrawal.

God knows I get enough crazy sxs and it can be scary sometimes. I just kerp telling myself that these sensations are disturbing but they are not dangerous.

 

That helps and most of these, not all but a great many are transient and go away after tme.

 

Try to stay positive and nit let these things worty you. Its all part of healing. 

 

ATU

[[bl...]]

Thanks so much, friends. I was sobbing last night. The foot pain has been with me on and off since taper began but these cramping and painful waves at night are new. It happened first time about 8 days ago and I saw in morning that I'd forgotten to take Valium. So, that was so reassuring!! I felt I could really chalk it up to the drug after that. But last night I didn't forget and wham, it happened again. The only thing I did both days was exercise which maybe is a mistake at this point? So depressing. Anyway, thank you so much for responding. Thank g-d for BB. I am going to try sleeping in the boot or structured slipper. Good idea! It felt like what my feet wanted but just seemed so nuts. Im doing it tonight!

Thanks again!

Blue

[[He...]]

Hello, since we are talking math...

 

Help me out here please

 

Startinat 1.16 mg

Cutting .04 (3.44%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.12 mg after 2 weeks

 

Then starting at 1.12mg

Cutting .04 (3.57%) and hold 2 weeks.

Leaves 1.08 mg after 4 weeks

 

That would be a total  cut of about 7% in  4 weeks.

 

And I will wait until my pins and needles are all gone.

 

Is my math right?

 

Am I cutting too fast being that I am low in my dose.

I am fighting not to go too fast but am thinking I don't want to go to slow.

I will of course stop if my sxs start coming on. And hold longer if necessary.

But is this reasonable to try? Is it too ambitious and really to fast and stupid?

I don't want my benzo brain to control my better judgement.

 

I will try a micro taper once I get past this. I just want to be closer to 1 mg before I start my mt. Is that dumb?

 

Heath.

I know when I was intent on getting to 1mg I noticed more blippys and I would advise anyone trying to get to a lower dose, just because they want to be at 1mg, , "Don't" take your time...., I am a bit confused, you are fighting not going too fast, but do not want to go slow, think about this, what was the problems you had before just saying. But then again getting to 1mg may not bother you at all.

 

BEGOOD,

 

You are right. I think I might mess  myself up at the rate I posted. It probably is too big of a cut. I'm going to bring it down to a lower percentage cut.  Thanks for helping me to see that.

It's that hurry up feeling that I need to suppress.

 

Thanks, Heath

 

 

[[Al...]]

I know we are told to exercise through this taper and I believe it can be of help because we seem to loose muscle mass so easily, at least I do. So I try to exercise regularely and that might be a good work out or just walking around the house in the winter months. There have been times though when exercise has done more harm than good for me. Its all an issue of trial and error but if something dosent work at one point in your taper that doesnt neccesarily mean it wont work next time so even though it is hard to exervise I force myself to until I can see which way it going for me.

 

Bluepill, I hope your foot sxs ease up soon. In the mean tome try different things to help alleviate the pain.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU

[[so...]]

Thanks so much, friends. I was sobbing last night. The foot pain has been with me on and off since taper began but these cramping and painful waves at night are new. It happened first time about 8 days ago and I saw in morning that I'd forgotten to take Valium. So, that was so reassuring!! I felt I could really chalk it up to the drug after that. But last night I didn't forget and wham, it happened again. The only thing I did both days was exercise which maybe is a mistake at this point? So depressing. Anyway, thank you so much for responding. Thank g-d for BB. I am going to try sleeping in the boot or structured slipper. Good idea! It felt like what my feet wanted but just seemed so nuts. Im doing it tonight!

Thanks again!

Blue

 

 

 

 

I hope it helps Blue. I thought of that because when I get a foot cramp it's usually the result of moving my toes or foot. Keeping the feet immobilized may be beneficial. Good luck!

[[He...]]

Hi blue,

I used to get really bad calf cramps that woke me up in the middle of the night. The school nurse where I work told me the next time I get a calf cramp, I should just get out of bed and stamp the foot on the ground a couple of times and the cramp will stop.

 

 

IT WORKED, AND IT STILL WORKS EVERY TIME. IT DOESNT KEEP THE CRAMPS FROM COMING BUT IT MAKES THEm STOP RIGHT AWAY.

 

also I have been taking 100 mg of Coq10 every day. (A vitamin over the counter) My sisters dr recommended it  to stop her calfcramps so I asked my dr. And he said it can't hurt.

Well my calf cramps have diminished greatly. This was way before my taper so I know my calf cramps have nothing to do with my taper, but I think it's worth a try for you?

 

I get the foot cramps too but I don't know how to relieve them except a heating pad or moist heat and constant rubbing and massaging until they stop.

 

I am so sorry you are suffering so much.

 

Maybe one of these things will help. I hope so. Hope you find relief soon.

 

Heath

[[He...]]

Blue,

Just thought of something else. Keep your feet warm, wear socks when you sleep.

Heath

[[He...]]

Predicament!

A  casual acquaintance of mine mentioned that she used to take Ambien 10mg to sleep every night but it stopped working for her, even when she took 2 10mg pills. ( she probably has reached tolerance) So her doctor changed her to temezopam, which is another benzo ( also called Restoril). She has no idea about what is going on. She follows her dr blindly. She has no idea what is going on with my accidental addiction and that I am withdrawing and having a hell of a time.i don't share this but only with a select few friends.

 

What do I do?  Mind my own business and Keep my mouth shut?

 

Open my mouth and be a butt-in- skee?

 

I'm really not that close to her and she may be offended and tell me to mind my Own business.

But I hate to see what is happening to me, happen to her. And, perhaps, it is too late to save her from that. Some people don't want to get off of the drug. But to take these meds without being properly informed is just worse than terrible!

 

My own sister takes Xanax every night to sleep and does not want to hear what I have to say.

 

So do I keep my mouth shut?

 

Heath

[[an...]]

Hi Everyone!!

 

I have been reading the posts and trying to catch up.  I hope everyone is doing well today.

 

Things are better here.  My husband is recovering nicely. 

 

As for me, I am still experiencing loads of chemical anxiety.  Every time I go out, I get lightheaded, off balance, and shaky.  My BP also spikes.  I have an appointment with a cardiologist next month.  I want to get everything checked out just in case.

 

Stay warm!!  I wish everyone long windows.

Anne xoxox    :smitten: