The Long Hold Support Group

[[...]]

Hi everyone , I haven't felt much like being online for a bit..... Needed a break, but just now catching up with everyones posts.

Hope you all had a good Thanksgiving .

I spent my third year in a row alone....actually that's not completely true, I managed to go to a friends house for an hour earlier in the day, that was huge for me!

I prepared myself for being on my own and at this point I'm happier when my nervous system is happier, and that doesn't yet include company.

Been having a Sex in the City binge.... 

 

I'm doing ok... Same really , though I have more energy, but this damn burning in my spine and kidney area really bothers me. I suppose  I'm going to go and get my kidneys checked out just for the reassurance.

 

Been battling the ' I want off now' and 'I'll never get well 'mind and trying to be patient with holding and still feeling yucky.

Do you all think even at this dose I can feel better? I just get afraid it's the V that's making me feel bad. I know I've asked it before, but I haven't felt OK in so long. And the burning is relentless.

 

Going to keep holding anyway . would rather feel a little ok than really awful.

 

Keep on keeping on ,

MiYu

:hug:

 

 

Really great that some of you here are doing so much better. Just can't wait to be lower in dose , I just imagine I will feel less anxious about holding then. 

[[He...]]

Hi MIYU,

I am truly saddened to hear that you are still struggling. I do know how miserable it can be.

But listen my friend, I see from your tapering signature,that you have made cuts consistently since June.

IMO, you still need much more time to hold to let your CNS catch up with those cuts.

IMO, That means holding with NO FURTHER CUTS for a few more months or until your wd sxs really really subside and you are stable.

But of course, this is something you have to decide for yourself. Only you know how you feel and what you think is best for you.

 

I was far better off by holding than to keep cutting, especially when I was already having bad withdrawal symptoms. Cutting when I was feeling badly only made matters worse. But when I held, my wd sxs eventually got lighter, and then disappeared. But it did take 4 months of holding TO GET TO THAT POINT with ABSOLUTELY NO CUTTING.  And for most of the buddies on this forum, it seems once they get their CNS stable, then when they are ready to start cutting and tapering again, the tapering goes much more smoothly.

 

MIYU, my friend you are a strong lady! You can do this! Look How long you have kept up the fight already!. Don't  look at how long you still have to go, look at how far you have already come!

There are many people who have had far higher doses than you and they  made it through. You will get through this too! Don't give up!

 

Peace and healing to you and may better days be right around the corner.

 

Heath  

 

 

Hang in there Miyu. 

[[ly...]]

 

 

MiYu,

 

My taper started 1/15 - a full year before yours.  I messed myself up pretty badly in 2015 and held for 8 months.  8 months!  I wasn't on BB but just thought this was what I needed to do - that my brain needed to adjust.

 

I again went too fast earlier this year  and held 4 months.  Since then I have been able to cut every 30 days and not have too much trouble.

 

I really don't care how long my taper takes as long as I feel well.  I'll hold again and/or reduce cuts if I feel I need to.

[[Va...]]

Hi MiYu. I think we all get caught up in the "I'll feel better the quicker I get off" mindset. It seems to be at its worst when sxs wax and wane during a hold. It's definitely related to withdrawal and the anxiety to do anything to get rid of feeling the sxs of withdrawal. I always have to catch myself when I start thinking this way as I have found from my own experience getting off quickly is the last thing I need to do. Once you feel more stable, it will make it much easier to continue at a rate you can live with IMO. Hang in there!  --V

[[be...]]

MiYu, join the crowd, what everyone has said is so true, and the thing about that is to get it out of your mind, if you would go to some of the Threads right now at this very moment, the poster is telling the op that just push on through and then Jump, well I can bet you a dollar that they will have a horrible time for pushing through when having sx, it takes time a lot of time, and actually the best thing you can do, you are doing distracting with your TV, and another thing erase the thought of moving on with taper and replace it with some Mindfulness CD or something anything to get through this, and you will, it is really all up to you. I wish I knew what I know now, and I would not be on my third taper, but in a way it is good it happened, because now I have a better gauge of what to expect and what I am willing to do. Hang in there, it will get better. I promise. Have a nice day. And your day will come and you will be lower in dosage, but Patience is everything.

[[Va...]]

MiYu, join the crowd, what everyone has said is so true, and the thing about that is to get it out of your mind, if you would go to some of the Threads right now at this very moment, the poster is telling the op that just push on through and then Jump, well I can bet you a dollar that they will have a horrible time for pushing through when having sx, it takes time a lot of time, and actually the best thing you can do, you are doing distracting with your TV, and another thing erase the thought of moving on with taper and replace it with some Mindfulness CD or something anything to get through this, and you will, it is really all up to you. I wish I knew what I know now, and I would not be on my third taper, but in a way it is good it happened, because now I have a better gauge of what to expect and what I am willing to do. Hang in there, it will get better. I promise. Have a nice day. And your day will come and you will be lower in dosage, but Patience is everything.

Sadly, almost every thread I've read today is doing exactly that.  --V

[[be...]]

MiYu, join the crowd, what everyone has said is so true, and the thing about that is to get it out of your mind, if you would go to some of the Threads right now at this very moment, the poster is telling the op that just push on through and then Jump, well I can bet you a dollar that they will have a horrible time for pushing through when having sx, it takes time a lot of time, and actually the best thing you can do, you are doing distracting with your TV, and another thing erase the thought of moving on with taper and replace it with some Mindfulness CD or something anything to get through this, and you will, it is really all up to you. I wish I knew what I know now, and I would not be on my third taper, but in a way it is good it happened, because now I have a better gauge of what to expect and what I am willing to do. Hang in there, it will get better. I promise. Have a nice day. And your day will come and you will be lower in dosage, but Patience is everything.

Sadly, almost every thread I've read today is doing exactly that.  --V

So sad, :'( :'( :'( I just do not understand, oh well I am glad I don't have that need to push on my back, so thankful for sure.

[[ly...]]

 

 

  It'd be one thing if those advising this had had a successful experience doing this.  If they followed this path, jumped and were ok post-taper then they could offer up their experience for people to consider.  I do not think that I have seen this advice from anyone who has done this and jumped and had a relatively short and mild post-taper experience.  I'd like to hear a success story from someone who pushed through bad wd and ended up fine.  These are the people who should be advising about whether to push thru and/or "just jump".  And where are the people who suffered from pushing thru or just jumping?  Maybe they should speak up on the topic.

 

I've seen some pretty bad endings.

 

 

[[be...]]

 

 

  It'd be one thing if those advising this had had a successful experience doing this.  If they followed this path, jumped and were ok post-taper then they could offer up their experience for people to consider.  I do not think that I have seen this advice from anyone who has done this and jumped and had a relatively short and mild post-taper experience.  I'd like to hear a success story from someone who pushed through bad wd and ended up fine.  These are the people who should be advising about whether to push thru and/or "just jump".  And where are the people who suffered from pushing thru or just jumping?  Maybe they should speak up on the topic.

 

I've seen some pretty bad endings.

Agree completely.

[[an...]]

I agree.  I believe that holding and sometimes even a dose correction is in order.  I like the term dose correction (I believe that Builder was the person to first use the term).  It always bothers me when I read about a new member suffering from symptoms and they are told to just keep going with the taper because the symptoms are a sign of healing.     

 

Anne

[[Va...]]

I agree.  I believe that holding and sometimes even a dose correction is in order.  I like the term dose correction (I believe that Builder was the person to first use the term).  It always bothers me when I read about a new member suffering from symptoms and they are told to just keep going with the taper because the symptoms are a sign of healing.     

Y

Anne

Or the new favorite "tolerance withdrawal" lol.  --V

[[no...]]

I agree.  I believe that holding and sometimes even a dose correction is in order.  I like the term dose correction (I believe that Builder was the person to first use the term).  It always bothers me when I read about a new member suffering from symptoms and they are told to just keep going with the taper because the symptoms are a sign of healing.     

Y

Anne

Or the new favorite "tolerance withdrawal" lol.  --V

Hi all  I have done a ''dose correction'' after 2 years in hell and only cutting 1/8 in 2 years using Cut and hold an also tried a liquid Daily Micro taper and getting to the point I was barely able to look after myself, and spending more time laying on the floor in agony than sat or standing up. My very survival depends on me and I had hit a dangerous place to be in when you live alone with no support and no one rings or calls to your home since you been going through this hell, I have to keep me alive.

 

No one on this planet can tell me what I've gone through is 'healing'' yes I know it stinks and its brutal when you going through withdrawal/healing but this was outside that realm it was a case of do something or die. So I did something, I put the dose up to correct it from 3.45mg to 5mg which is lower than I was going to go up to and am a week into holding at that dose as an updose/dose correction/ reinstatement/ can take weeks or even a few months for it to work and I've been in a bad place for most 2 years not 2 days weeks or months. I like others thought that it was supposed to work right away when you try updose but that's not true it does a some cases but you need to hold for a while the same as when you go down in dose for it to stabilise you.

 

After being destabilised for so long I may need a higher dose correction nearer the dose I was going to go back to or smack on but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and if that the is case then I will up it again, but first  I need to  give this dose a chance before I go higher. With anything even vits and supplements I've always believed that you should start as low as possible and give it at the very least two weeks to see how it effects you, and I am using the same rule with this drug.

 

I was on a very high dose of not just this but lots of different drugs for many years, and I managed to find old posts form pain forums that I was on over the last few years ago before I found out my problem was Benzos withdrwal. And was shocked to find in the information I posted I had come off CT, or too rapid drugs that I should have tapered over a few years  apiece, and I had actually come off Temazepam 40mg a night CT in 2014 as well. And I've also too rapidly tapered more Diazepam than I thought, I thought it was  2mg over 1 year but its not, It was 5mg in less than a year, no wonder I've reached as low as I have now, thats way too fast.

 

So for now I'm holding at 5mg and if I have to correct the dose again I will do so, its my body and its not right at all,  I've CT'd off big doses of Benzos and this is even worse  that what I've gone through since last January. And the other thing I noticed was before I knew it was Benzos I was drinking and reading those old posts it bought it home to me that the drink was making it worse most of the time as well I knew nothing about anything the way I know now .

 

I am now ''Benzo wise'' and know more about the body and brain than I should need to know, but anyway  I am now holding at 5mg and will  correct the dose again if need be. I have also spoken to  B.A.T, about this and they also agree  with up-dosing/reinstatement  '''dose correction'' but you have to be patient and some people feel worse before they feel better but stablise  eventually go on to do a successful taper where they walk off with no problems at all or minimal symptoms but are still able to go about life with no problems at all. This a a BIG Taboo subject on the forum, and  I am not telling  anyone else do it but it was an option open to me and the only one I hadn't tried, being traumatised in in agony, barely surviving and only being able shower or wash  4 times in 2 years is NOT a ''sign of healing'' it a sign that something is very wrong and needs to be reassessed and changed .

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[He...]]

Hello , I agree with all of you but just thought I'd add my 2 cents.  

 

IMO  a good long hold would solve just about everyone's difficulties if they would REALLY JUST HOLD LONG ENOUGH.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT MANY PEOPLE  just stop holding after 2 months or so and never do really stabelize before starting to cut again. ( just like me back in May, June  ) I was so impatient and didnt really hold long enough to let my CNS adjust and catch up and heal. And so I wound up right back where i started with horrible wd sxs AGAIN!

 

I'm not one to talk because goodness knows I have made this mistake like many others. But at least I have FINALLY  learned, THE HARD WAY! 

 

It Took me a while but I am on the right track now.  :thumb-sup

 

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO Is HOLDING, WILL REALLY HOLD A GOOD AMOUNT OFMONTHS SO THEIR HOLD  WILL GET THEM BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK..

 

Heath :

 

 

 

[[no...]]

Hello , I agree with all of you but just thought I'd add my 2 cents.  

 

IMO  a good long hold would solve just about everyone's difficulties if they would REALLY JUST HOLD LONG ENOUGH.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT MANY PEOPLE  just stop holding after 2 months or so and never do really stabelize before starting to cut again. ( just like me back in May, June  ) I was so impatient and didnt really hold long enough to let my CNS adjust and catch up and heal. And so I wound up right back where i started with horrible wd sxs AGAIN!

 

I'm not one to talk because goodness knows I have made this mistake like many others. But at least I have FINALLY  earned, THE HARD WAY! 

 

It Took me a while but I am on the right track now.  :thumb-sup

 

I HOPE EVERYONE WHO Is HOLDING, WILL REALLY HOLD A GOOD AMOUNT OFMONTHS SO THEIR HOLD  WILL GET THEM BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK..

 

Heath :

Hi Heathcliff  I've done quite a few long holds I've held over a year previously to joining BB and done long holds while on here as well. This support group is actually a spin of of a thread I started  about long holds in march of this year I am now once again doing a ''long hold'' but my situation needed a change as I my chances of survival were slim to 0 if I attempted to continue the way I was it was completely futile, Therefore had to remove myself from a place of danger to recovery and then carry on with my taper from a place of safety.

 

Sometimes we have to go backwards to take a giant leap forwards, My sista' Begood  is only on person reinstated 3 times before she was able to continue and is now doing brilliantly, and I believe she will slide of quietly with no problems too looking at her track record now  There are many success stories where others did the same and had many attempts sometimes several or more before they cracked it and got off pretty rapidly in the end with no acute at all.

 

I do not believe for one second that I've gone backwards by doing what I've done just corrected my place and pace and that now gives me a way better chance of  moving forward and getting through this taper and keeping symptoms to a minimum. Had I carried don the way I was tapering would be the last thing I had to worry about, and my floor the last thing I ever looked at as well I will continue to hold where I am for this time unless I know I need to revise my plans resume my  taper again

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[be...]]

Afternoon 'Sista', so glad that you joined us here to let us know how you are doing, I remember clearly your Thread you started as I was one of the first ones to join. Having to reinstate twice I knew that moping my floor daily was a real crapshoot, that I was surely going to break my head open or break my hip, no that did not happen, but I was black and blue everywhere and I mean everywhere......After I had done my second reinstatement, I was content to feel better and I was just going to stay on for Life, but the old nagging in my brain kept coming back, that if they stopped making Valium I would have to take something else, because by the second taper I knew that seizures could happen, and I frankly was terrified, so I started again on my third and last taper, but with the realization that I could do this again, but if I did not do it differently I would be back at the beginning again, I sure knew what wasn't working, but then a light bulb went off and shoot, it was staring me in the face all the time, if going too fast and tapering too much at a time did not work, why not try going slow and holding for as long as I thought was best, and everyone knows that I am doing well this time and it is all because I changed my thinking and rushing to get off, I am now just having blips sometimes, and I am so proud that I have been doing so well, and I know that no matter what awaits me when I  [glow=red,2,300]"GENTLY WALK OFF"[/glow] I did it my way and know that I have done the best for me. I believe it is a good thing to realize that when something is not working we must really look at what we are doing and make a new plan. I Know that Nova just like all the rest of us here, we will have our day in the Sun, it is coming I just know it, but we will have to walk slowly.... Onward and only the best for all.

[[no...]]

Afternoon 'Sista', so glad that you joined us here to let us know how you are doing, I remember clearly your Thread you started as I was one of the first ones to join. Having to reinstate twice I knew that moping my floor daily was a real crapshoot, that I was surely going to break my head open or break my hip, no that did not happen, but I was black and blue everywhere and I mean everywhere......After I had done my second reinstatement, I was content to feel better and I was just going to stay on for Life, but the old nagging in my brain kept coming back, that if they stopped making Valium I would have to take something else, because by the second taper I knew that seizures could happen, and I frankly was terrified, so I started again on my third and last taper, but with the realization that I could do this again, but if I did not do it differently I would be back at the beginning again, I sure knew what wasn't working, but then a light bulb went off and shoot, it was staring me in the face all the time, if going too fast and tapering too much at a time did not work, why not try going slow and holding for as long as I thought was best, and everyone knows that I am doing well this time and it is all because I changed my thinking and rushing to get off, I am now just having blips sometimes, and I am so proud that I have been doing so well, and I know that no matter what awaits me when I  [glow=red,2,300]"GENTLY WALK OFF"[/glow] I did it my way and know that I have done the best for me. I believe it is a good thing to realize that when something is not working we must really look at what we are doing and make a new plan. Onward and only the best for all.

:thumbsup: Aloha Sista' 

[[ly...]]

 

 

Heath,

 

To your point about length of hold, I keep seeing the same thing posted when someone is having serious trouble and asking for help on another thread/support site - "hold no more than 2 or 3 weeks".  I don't know where this idea comes from as even Ashton states that longer holds may be necessary.  I don't recall her exact language but I believe that she "allows" a couple of months.  I don't think she has data on longer holds because she didn't observe anyone who did one.

 

 

[[be...]]

Lynn, Heath, so right about the advice about the amount of time to hold, I just do not know if some really believe this or are there some that are not nice in  Life to spread such words that to me lack any type of support, it is just rush, rush...., get off...., and like what has been said above about Healing etc, but the sad thing is that because as we attempt to taper, we can be very fragile and when someone leaves a post we think oh this is good, someone is reading and they are giving good advice, not at al..... but my hope is that those that are struggling so much will really open their eyes and look around on the threads, or better yet come here and find us. I believe Valley used to leave a link to this Thread, oh well just chiming in.

[[no...]]

 

 

Heath,

 

To your point about length of hold, I keep seeing the same thing posted when someone is having serious trouble and asking for help on another thread/support site - "hold no more than 2 or 3 weeks".  I don't know where this idea comes from as even Ashton states that longer holds may be necessary.  I don't recall her exact language but I believe that she "allows" a couple of months.  I don't think she has data on longer holds because she didn't observe anyone who did one.

Hi Lynn  every time I see that above quote i makes me want to scream, but if you try and tell people it takes longer, months maybe, then the naysayers all jump in with ''well I held 4 weeks and it never helped''   Then the people needing the support and validation that a longer hold may be the remedy panic and  carry on cutting or rush off and suffer needlessly thanks to the other 'Mythical mantra' on here. ''You have to be off before you heal'' not true, your body adapts as you go lower in the dose enabling recovery with each step and during a hold as well. Other wise the amount of people healing on here and beyond the forum  would be an insignificant minority, lots of people have said they got better during their taper and went back to work while tapering after being housebound for years at a time.

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[ly...]]

 

Nova,

 

How about the "I held and GOT WORSE!" scary warning?  I'm so glad that I held for 8 months BEFORE finding BB.  I knew that it worked for me (and there was no such thing as "tolerance withdrawal").

 

I hope you get relief from the dose adjustment.

[[ga...]]

Hugs, Nova. How are you doing now? Has the dose correction improved things? I so feel for you doing this alone.

 

Gard

[[no...]]

Hugs, Nova. How are you doing now? Has the dose correction improved things? I so feel for you doing this alone.

 

Gard

Hi Gard  Its only been a week so its early days yet  Out of 7 days I've had 3 awful days and 4 bearable days which is an improvement on of two months of mostly hell and a lot of time laying down in agony mentally and physically but up-dosing is also non linear. So unless I get exceptionally lucky I'm going to still be wavy until I stabilise, or may need to tweak the dose up a bit  to achieve stability.

 

I'm actually a few MGS lower in dose than what I discussed with B.A.T as a ''dose correction'', and others have gone back on  a LOT higher dose than that and held to get functional and are now tapering an doing really well and getting along faster and better than they ever were. If I know I need to tweak the dose up a little more then I will, but I am going to give this dose a chance to work first, nearly everyone that did this said it wasn't and over night change it took time to work.

 

And as with all holds that patience is the key it will work eventually, it was only fear I picked up on the forum that stopped me from doing this a long time ago, now I'm more educated I see a LOT of things more differently especially from a personal experience point of view. Its true about ''Do not allow fear to stop you trying different things''  I should have done this 2 years ago now I know the trick is to go up a dose, or to the last dose you were good at AS SOON  as you get symptoms. Hold 'stabilise than continue when you've been stable for a while at least a few weeks rather than days.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:  

[[ba...]]

Have been in a wave from hell for 6 days. I am getting quite scared.  The doses don't feel good, and by 3.5 hours, I am in agony. I dose every 6 hours, The next dose may do nothing or give me some relief, but again, by 3.5 hours, in agony. Not sleeping much. I used to dose my first med at 5 hours, then 6 for the next 2, but bumped dose 1 to 6 hours about 3 weeks ago. I am thinking of walking that back this morning, (5.5 hours instead of 6 from the time I took my first dose)and seeing if it makes any difference. Before I pushed dose 1 to a 6 hour wait, I could often go longer than 6 hours for the following doses, and actually felt a bit of relief at the 6 hour mark when the medication was done. Now, I am watching the clock like crazy every 3.5 hours, and not optimistic about the dose doing much for long once I do take it. By the time my 6 hours have hit, I am usually crying.

 

I am considering going back to 5 or 5,5  hours from dose 1 to dose 2, then 6 hours for the next 2. That is how I was dosing before. It was more successful. But, I have no idea if this is a good idea or not. It's worth trying once, at least, and seeing if it helps. I would still be at the same dosage.

 

Have taken some rescue doses during this taper. They did help, mostly when I had zero sleep and was up 24 hours.

 

I can't ride my bike anymore, the snow finally hit. Have been using my stationary bike at home, and going to the gym as able (it does help) However, the wave continues. I do all my distraction things, but am in so much agony, that they really don't touch it. My therapist and spouse both say I have been like this before,  keep on with mindfulness and distraction.

 

I did cut one dose 3 days ago, just a bit, too see if that would help, it was worse. So, it's not a problem of needing to cut.

 

Then, I added a small amount (.25) an hour into a dose, again, no change.  So, up dosing wont help either, not like that's what I want. But after 6 days of this, I am desperate.

 

I don't think it's the sero cut, my body seems to have adapted to it.

 

Have you folks experienced extended waves, even in a long hold? Advice? Have you folks experienced extended waves like this? If I knew it would settle down, I would feel better. This has been going on so long, I am scared it's never gong to calm down. I am used to 3-4 day waves, this is longer than I have experienced since perhaps even before I started this hold, and for the third time, I am freaking out.

 

Thanks buddies.

 

 

 

 

[[Va...]]

Have been in a wave from hell for 6 days. I am getting quite scared.  The doses don't feel good, and by 3,5 hours, I am in agony. I dose every 6 hours, The next dose may do nothing or give me some relief, but again, by 3.5 hours, in agony. Not sleeping much. I used to dose at 5 hours,then 5 for the next 2, but bumped dose 1 to 6 hours about 3 weeks ago. I am thinking of walking that back this morning, and seeing if it makes any difference. Before I pushed dose 1 to a 6 hour wait, I could often go 7 hours from dose 2 to dose 3. Now, I am watching the clock like crazy every 3.5 hours, and not optimistic about the dose doing much for long once I do take it.

 

Have taken some rescue doses during this taper. They did help, mostly when I had zero sleep and was up 24 hours.

 

I can't ride my bike anymore, the snow finally hit. Have been using my stationary bike at home, and going to the gym as able (it does help) However, the wave continues. I do all my distraction things, but am in so much agony, that they really don't touch it. My therapist and spouse both say I have been like this before,  keep on with mindfulness and distraction.

 

I am considering going back to 5 hours from dose 1 to dose 2, then 6 hours for the next 2. That is how I was dosing before.

 

I did cut one dose 3 days ago, just a bit, too see if that would help, it was worse. So, it's not a problem of needing to cut.

 

Then, I added a small amount (.25) an hour into a dose, again, no change.  So, up dosing wont help either, not like that's what I want. But after 6 days of this, I am desperate.

 

I don't think it's the sero cut, my body seems to have adapted to it.

 

Have you folks experienced extended waves, even in a long hold? Advice? Have you folks experienced extended waves like this? If I knew it would settle down, I would feel better. This has been going on so long, I am scared it's never gong to calm down. I am used to 3-4 day waves, this is longer than I have experienced since perhaps even before I started this hold, and for the third time, I am freaking out.

 

Thanks buddies.

Hi BD. I think lynn indicated that it takes quite a while to stabilize. You will experience waves throughout the hold until your body has fully adjusted. You just need to give it ENOUGH TIME. Hope you get back on track soon!  --V

[[Va...]]

 

Nova,

 

How about the "I held and GOT WORSE!" scary warning?  I'm so glad that I held for 8 months BEFORE finding BB.  I knew that it worked for me (and there was no such thing as "tolerance withdrawal").

 

I hope you get relief from the dose adjustment.

I don't know about you all but I certainly got worse 3 weeks into my hold. It takes more than 3 weeks to stabilize if you have really desensitised your CNS. In fact, I felt worse right before I started to feel better as some horrible sxs hit at 4 1/2 months. It got much better from there. Sometimes you just have to hold long enough and the same Windows and waves stabilisation pattern will play out until you stabilize like it does with many post taper. Just my 2 cents.  --V