The Long Hold Support Group

[[...]]

Thank you Gard and Valley.... I think you might be right... I was feeling ok and as I took nearly three months to make the cross from K to V I thought the V would have built up enough and I'd be stable. But I'm even wondering if I'm going through some more K withdrawal still in the mix.

I did ok the first month, even second was tolerable, then I guess it started to catch up with me.

So , perhaps I'm just paying now for that ..... I'll hold , it's just so scary when you think that a hold will be linear and you'll start to feel better and better , and when you start to feel worse everything comes into question.

Thank you so much for you stable support Valley, you're amazing .

[[ga...]]

Thank you Gard and Valley.... I think you might be right... I was feeling ok and as I took nearly three months to make the cross from K to V I thought the V would have built up enough and I'd be stable. But I'm even wondering if I'm going through some more K withdrawal still in the mix.

I did ok the first month, even second was tolerable, then I guess it started to catch up with me.

So , perhaps I'm just paying now for that ..... I'll hold , it's just so scary when you think that a hold will be linear and you'll start to feel better and better , and when you start to feel worse everything comes into question.

Thank you so much for you stable support Valley, you're amazing .

I think V makes a good point. I confess, after a really rough cross, I did not wait long until I started cutting again, which was awful. Then I had to hold 6 months to get my feet under me. Lots of ups and downs all the way. Even my doctor told me I should hold and she is NO benzo expert. She just said my brain desperately needed some stability. Yes, definitely.

 

Gard

[[He...]]

MIYU,

I agree with V 100%

And yes I did cut very fast at the beginning of my taper, way toooo fast. That's why I ended up in a very bad place. Horrible side effects caught up with me after cutting so much in 3 1/2 months.

It was only after a hold of two months that I got a bit better.

Unfortunately, that two months really was not long enough, but again I messed up by rushing ahead and cutting again after those two months when I really wasn't stable enough to do so. ( I was better, but I really was not stable)

So bad side effects came back.

It is only after a ANOTHER two and a half month hold to get really stable, (4 1/2 months total), that I am really knowing what becoming stable means. That's because my wdfx are only blips, and only sometimes are they bad enough to scare me and get me down.

I am so sure that it is the hold that is helping  me so much. I am going to hold until New Years and see how I feel.

If you think about it, it seems like a long time. But if I am feeling good, and I can go ahead and really live my life, it really doesnt matter how long it takes. I will get there !

 

Rushing a taper just makes you have to stop and wAit and let your brain catch up. So, you lose time anyway, and during your taper, you are feeling miserable because your brain is saying ,I need time to adjust, and heal and so.....bad wdfx again!

By holding until you are really stable, you brain will heal and catch up in the process of holding. You will know when your brain is ready to accept more cuts in your drug because your wdfx will have diminished to only blips. You will have good days and you will be able to function,

And only then will you be able to cut in a small, slow manner, so you don't wind up in another aggressive taper and bad side effects again.

 

IMO you should try to keep holding. Don't change your dose anymore.  I think it may just make a world if difference in your ability to function and deminish your side effects. I know it's hard to hold because you think you are just going nowhere and wasting time. But really, you are letting your brain heal!

Try to hang in there.  Prayers for healing and peace to you my friend

 

Heath

[[an...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

 

Before I celebrate...are you sure?? Cuz I sure ain't.

 

Gard,

 

I get the same amount.  You remove 0.67 mL/dose.  That is a total of 2 mL a day.  This is a total of 60 mL a month.  You have 0.05 mg of drug/mL (you dissolve 15 mg in 300 mL of water).  60 mL  x 0.05 mg/mL = 3 mg.  You will decrease by 3 mg in one months time.

 

Hope this helps.

 

((HUGS))

Anne

[[ga...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

 

Before I celebrate...are you sure?? Cuz I sure ain't.

 

Gard,

 

I get the same amount.  You remove 0.67 mL/dose.  That is a total of 2 mL a day.  This is a total of 60 mL a month.  You have 0.05 mg of drug/mL (you dissolve 15 mg in 300 mL of water).  60 mL  x 0.05 mg/mL = 3 mg.  You will decrease by 3 mg in one months time.

 

Hope this helps.

 

((HUGS))

Anne

 

 

OK, that's 3 votes so I'm going with it. When I get to that point. Maybe next week. Symptoms have been bonkers this week. But I think less bonkers than last week. 

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Y'all would not believe the wacky thing I survived on Sunday. I decided I needed groceries and my daughter was working two 10-hour sifts and then back to school on Monday. So it was shop or starve. I bravely went to the store. I have been to this store and back a gazillion time. It's only 5 minutes away. About a year ago they put in new roundabouts making the route a little different, but I had gone through them many times, too. For some reason, on the way home, I thought I had passed the underpass and it was time to take the branch off the roundabout to the right. Wrong. I branched right alright, right onto the new ramp to the freeway. Aaaaaagh! I just about had a heart attack. Luckily it was Sunday and there was almost no traffic. And I immediately exited...right onto the newly built set of roundabouts at the new exit ramp. I was stumped. Where was I? Well, I knew I had to get under the highway, so I went left and left and found myself back in my neighborhood and still alive. Phew! I think this did not help me with my freeway-phobia one bit. I did get food for my efforts, though.

 

Maybe that's why I've been jittery this week. Ya think?

 

Gard (survivor of the most ridiculous things)

[[Va...]]

Y'all would not believe the wacky thing I survived on Sunday. I decided I needed groceries and my daughter was working two 10-hour sifts and then back to school on Monday. So it was shop or starve. I bravely went to the store. I have been to this store and back a gazillion time. It's only 5 minutes away. About a year ago they put in new roundabouts making the route a little different, but I had gone through them many times, too. For some reason, on the way home, I thought I had passed the underpass and it was time to take the branch off the roundabout to the right. Wrong. I branched right alright, right onto the new ramp to the freeway. Aaaaaagh! I just about had a heart attack. Luckily it was Sunday and there was almost no traffic. And I immediately exited...right onto the newly built set of roundabouts at the new exit ramp. I was stumped. Where was I? Well, I knew I had to get under the highway, so I went left and left and found myself back in my neighborhood and still alive. Phew! I think this did not help me with my freeway-phobia one bit. I did get food for my efforts, though.

 

Maybe that's why I've been jittery this week. Ya think?

 

Gard (survivor of the most ridiculous things)

Just get on the freeway and keep driving next time. You may have a good time. 

[[sh...]]

Anyone here who has done a long hold on diazepam and then updosed anyway?  Wonder how that has gone for you.  How high did you know to updose?  Did you stabalize?  Did it proove to not make sx any better?  Then what?  Keep holding?

 

Thanks

Sharkie

[[...]]

Heath , thank you

I will keep holding. Feeling so much nausea today which is unusual for me.

A question I have though , I know about the brain and what the benzos do , but what about my nervous system , im So hypersensitive to everything . Will holding help that too ? Not sure I understand  how brain and nervous system healing take place , are they separate things that have to stabilize? My nervous system is what feels like it's in need of healing........

[[bl...]]

Can I join? Does anyone have any idea what a reasonable time line would be to get off my current does of 6 mg valium. I know I need to take it slow but I don't really know what that means. I was in K group for a while. I was on 1mg Klonopin for many years for insomnia. Began taper last fall---terrible s/x --worst of which have been hand and foot pain/swelling and blurry vision---but once I got down to .25 of K I lost it with the s/x and dr crossed me over to 10 mg valium. I was sure I had a disease but tests came back okay and I felt much better right away after crossover--which made me feel reassured it was the drugs. I am now down to 6.5 V and holding here---s/x returned once I began taper from 10 but not as bad---but t's really hard and I feel like I'm not going to make it sometimes. I want to get to 6 mg by X-mas but I don't want to be in pain and miserable over holidays. I have a family and job, etc....Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself. Thanks for listening.

[[He...]]

MIYU,

 

I use the terms brain and central nervous system interchangeably.

 

But I looked it up.  This is how I would explain it.

 

The brain is part of the central nervous system.

The central nervous system consists of the brain and spinal chord. The brain is the master controller. The brain  uses the spinal chord to send and receive messages throughout your body through your nerves.  Nerves are like wires that connect everything.. THEY ARE NOT REALLY LIKE WIRES BUT THATS THE BEST WAY I CAN EXPLAIN IT.

 

So when we talk about healing, I imagine we are talking mostly about the brain, but also the entire CNS .

 

Does anyone else have a better or more accurate explanation?

 

Does that make sense to you?

 

Heath

[[He...]]

Can I join? Does anyone have any idea what a reasonable time line would be to get off my current does of 6 mg valium. I know I need to take it slow but I don't really know what that means. I was in K group for a while. I was on 1mg Klonopin for many years for insomnia. Began taper last fall---terrible s/x --worst of which have been hand and foot pain/swelling and blurry vision---but once I got down to .25 of K I lost it with the s/x and dr crossed me over to 10 mg valium. I was sure I had a disease but tests came back okay and I felt much better right away after crossover--which made me feel reassured it was the drugs. I am now down to 6.5 V and holding here---s/x returned once I began taper from 10 but not as bad---but t's really hard and I feel like I'm not going to make it sometimes. I want to get to 6 mg by X-mas but I don't want to be in pain and miserable over holidays. I have a family and job, etc....Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself. Thanks for listening.

 

HI and WELCOME  BLUEPILL!

 

Glad you joined us!

 

I'm kind of new here too. I tapered  down from 7.5 mg Valium to 1.2 mg in a very short time. Hit a wall all right. Really bad wdfx from going too fast. Aggressive taper just set me back big time. But a long hold is working to get me to a much better place!

 

IMO If you are having bad wdfx you should stop cutting now and hold right where you are. Your difficult wdfx could very well be from your too fast tapering or too big cut. Holding will give your brain the time it needs to adjust to the crossover from K and the cut in Valium that you have made. If you holdwhre you are,your wdfx will begin to subside and life will be better. Your wdfx will improve as you hold as long as you hold long enough. Listen to your body and see how you feel. When you are having  difficult wdfx, that is definitely NOT the time to cut. It is a time to hold steady. Listen to your body and seeing how you feel, will help you determine just how long you need to hold. When your wdfx are under control, and you think you have stabelized , then you will know it is ok to cut.

But IMO, a hold of one month, is not really a long hold at all. Many people hold for atleast a couple of months to see wdfx improve.

 

But you have to listen to your body and do what is best for you.

 

As far as the  "average" time to get off of Valium....I can not answer that. Everyone's  brain heals at an individual pace. Everyone is different.

Some people can do it rapidly but from what I have learned from these forums, most people take at least a few months or a year, or some take more. The lower you go in your dose, the harder it gets, so you have to go slower, with holds between cuts,  and make smaller cuts.

 

Welcome again! 

Heathcliff

 

 

 

 

[[Va...]]

Anyone here who has done a long hold on diazepam and then updosed anyway?  Wonder how that has gone for you.  How high did you know to updose?  Did you stabalize?  Did it proove to not make sx any better?  Then what?  Keep holding?

 

Thanks

Sharkie

Hi Sharkie. I updose after a 6 month hold when switching to liquid as I noticed an uptick in minor sxs. It did take care of the minor sxs and I started to taper about 2 weeks later. Hope that helps a little.  --V

[[Va...]]

Heath , thank you

I will keep holding. Feeling so much nausea today which is unusual for me.

A question I have though , I know about the brain and what the benzos do , but what about my nervous system , im So hypersensitive to everything . Will holding help that too ? Not sure I understand  how brain and nervous system healing take place , are they separate things that have to stabilize? My nervous system is what feels like it's in need of healing........

Hi Miyu.  There are far more systems involved than just the Bain and central nervous system. Almost every system is involved including  the endocrine, digestive, circulatory, etc.  That's why we have so many varied symptoms that are hard to explain but all systems are readjusting to the loss of the drug as we reduce.  --V

[[Va...]]

Can I join? Does anyone have any idea what a reasonable time line would be to get off my current does of 6 mg valium. I know I need to take it slow but I don't really know what that means. I was in K group for a while. I was on 1mg Klonopin for many years for insomnia. Began taper last fall---terrible s/x --worst of which have been hand and foot pain/swelling and blurry vision---but once I got down to .25 of K I lost it with the s/x and dr crossed me over to 10 mg valium. I was sure I had a disease but tests came back okay and I felt much better right away after crossover--which made me feel reassured it was the drugs. I am now down to 6.5 V and holding here---s/x returned once I began taper from 10 but not as bad---but t's really hard and I feel like I'm not going to make it sometimes. I want to get to 6 mg by X-mas but I don't want to be in pain and miserable over holidays. I have a family and job, etc....Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself. Thanks for listening.

Welcome bluepill!  Anyone can join the group whether they are holding or not. 6mg of V seems to be a tough spot for most tapering V from all the posts I've read. I would personally hold until you feel good. Don't put additional stress on yourself by having a date to get to a certain level. Your body doesn't know anything about a specific date and will take however long it takes to reach homeostasis again. Once you've stabilized at that level and find a comfortable reduction level, it should get easier as you get lower even though you will most likely be adjusting the reductions as you get lower. I wouldn't worry about the time it will take to get off. I would worry about your main concern which is being able to work and enjoy your family. As long as you keep those things in the forefront of your mind, you'll be ok. Organise your taper around being functional and happy and make it work for you not against you.  Hope that makes sense.  --V

[[be...]]

Hi Valley, just wanted to run something by you, I will soon be at 1.10mg and when I started I had been using a 2mg Valium, and 200cc of h20 and the vodka, 1cc, works well for me, well when I get to 1mg Valium don't I decrease my water to 100cc and start from there, I know the numbers, but just want someone to validate I am going to be doing this right. The Girlz have been wondering where you are.

[[Va...]]

Hi Valley, just wanted to run something by you, I will soon be at 1.10mg and when I started I had been using a 2mg Valium, and 200cc of h20 and the vodka, 1cc, works well for me, well when I get to 1mg Valium don't I decrease my water to 100cc and start from there, I know the numbers, but just want someone to validate I am going to be doing this right. The Girlz have been wondering where you are.

Hi BG! It would be easier to lower to 100cc if you're only dissolving 1mg. So yes if it's just 1mg, you would use 100cc. I need to pop in and say hi to the girlz!  --V

[[be...]]

Hi Valley, just wanted to run something by you, I will soon be at 1.10mg and when I started I had been using a 2mg Valium, and 200cc of h20 and the vodka, 1cc, works well for me, well when I get to 1mg Valium don't I decrease my water to 100cc and start from there, I know the numbers, but just want someone to validate I am going to be doing this right. The Girlz have been wondering where you are.

Hi BG! It would be easier to lower to 100cc if you're only dissolving 1mg. So yes if it's just 1mg, you would use 100cc. I need to pop in and say hi to the girlz!  --V

Thanks "The TURTLE"  

[[fi...]]

Hi - I'd like to follow this group!

 

I too had a tough time at 6mg V and up dosed to 6.5 - (saw above someone reference many having a hard time at this MG) ........I am holding for now and then will start daily liquid micro micro taper (think 2.3% a month!)

 

[[be...]]

Welcome Fight, and Bluepill, and Sharky. 

[[ga...]]

Y'all would not believe the wacky thing I survived on Sunday. I decided I needed groceries and my daughter was working two 10-hour sifts and then back to school on Monday. So it was shop or starve. I bravely went to the store. I have been to this store and back a gazillion time. It's only 5 minutes away. About a year ago they put in new roundabouts making the route a little different, but I had gone through them many times, too. For some reason, on the way home, I thought I had passed the underpass and it was time to take the branch off the roundabout to the right. Wrong. I branched right alright, right onto the new ramp to the freeway. Aaaaaagh! I just about had a heart attack. Luckily it was Sunday and there was almost no traffic. And I immediately exited...right onto the newly built set of roundabouts at the new exit ramp. I was stumped. Where was I? Well, I knew I had to get under the highway, so I went left and left and found myself back in my neighborhood and still alive. Phew! I think this did not help me with my freeway-phobia one bit. I did get food for my efforts, though.

 

Maybe that's why I've been jittery this week. Ya think?

 

Gard (survivor of the most ridiculous things)

Just get on the freeway and keep driving next time. You may have a good time. 

 

Trust me, if you head north from here, you will not have a good time!

[[Va...]]

Hi - I'd like to follow this group!

 

I too had a tough time at 6mg V and up dosed to 6.5 - (saw above someone reference many having a hard time at this MG) ........I am holding for now and then will start daily liquid micro micro taper (think 2.3% a month!)

Welcome fight! Sounds like a good plan! I started the daily MT at 11.5mg. It seems to work out much better for me. Keep us posted.  --V

[[Va...]]

Y'all would not believe the wacky thing I survived on Sunday. I decided I needed groceries and my daughter was working two 10-hour sifts and then back to school on Monday. So it was shop or starve. I bravely went to the store. I have been to this store and back a gazillion time. It's only 5 minutes away. About a year ago they put in new roundabouts making the route a little different, but I had gone through them many times, too. For some reason, on the way home, I thought I had passed the underpass and it was time to take the branch off the roundabout to the right. Wrong. I branched right alright, right onto the new ramp to the freeway. Aaaaaagh! I just about had a heart attack. Luckily it was Sunday and there was almost no traffic. And I immediately exited...right onto the newly built set of roundabouts at the new exit ramp. I was stumped. Where was I? Well, I knew I had to get under the highway, so I went left and left and found myself back in my neighborhood and still alive. Phew! I think this did not help me with my freeway-phobia one bit. I did get food for my efforts, though.

 

Maybe that's why I've been jittery this week. Ya think?

 

Gard (survivor of the most ridiculous things)

Just get on the freeway and keep driving next time. You may have a good time. 

 

Trust me, if you head north from here, you will not have a good time!

But isn't everything an adventure in benzo land?

[[ga...]]

Y'all would not believe the wacky thing I survived on Sunday. I decided I needed groceries and my daughter was working two 10-hour sifts and then back to school on Monday. So it was shop or starve. I bravely went to the store. I have been to this store and back a gazillion time. It's only 5 minutes away. About a year ago they put in new roundabouts making the route a little different, but I had gone through them many times, too. For some reason, on the way home, I thought I had passed the underpass and it was time to take the branch off the roundabout to the right. Wrong. I branched right alright, right onto the new ramp to the freeway. Aaaaaagh! I just about had a heart attack. Luckily it was Sunday and there was almost no traffic. And I immediately exited...right onto the newly built set of roundabouts at the new exit ramp. I was stumped. Where was I? Well, I knew I had to get under the highway, so I went left and left and found myself back in my neighborhood and still alive. Phew! I think this did not help me with my freeway-phobia one bit. I did get food for my efforts, though.

 

Maybe that's why I've been jittery this week. Ya think?

 

Gard (survivor of the most ridiculous things)

Just get on the freeway and keep driving next time. You may have a good time. 

 

Trust me, if you head north from here, you will not have a good time!

But isn't everything an adventure in benzo land?

An adventure like this!

[[no...]]

Y'all would not believe the wacky thing I survived on Sunday. I decided I needed groceries and my daughter was working two 10-hour sifts and then back to school on Monday. So it was shop or starve. I bravely went to the store. I have been to this store and back a gazillion time. It's only 5 minutes away. About a year ago they put in new roundabouts making the route a little different, but I had gone through them many times, too. For some reason, on the way home, I thought I had passed the underpass and it was time to take the branch off the roundabout to the right. Wrong. I branched right alright, right onto the new ramp to the freeway. Aaaaaagh! I just about had a heart attack. Luckily it was Sunday and there was almost no traffic. And I immediately exited...right onto the newly built set of roundabouts at the new exit ramp. I was stumped. Where was I? Well, I knew I had to get under the highway, so I went left and left and found myself back in my neighborhood and still alive. Phew! I think this did not help me with my freeway-phobia one bit. I did get food for my efforts, though.

 

Maybe that's why I've been jittery this week. Ya think?

 

Gard (survivor of the most ridiculous things)

So how was Mexico after Gard  :laugh:   Glad your okay and survived yet another Benzo related misdemeanour I have LOTS of them and I'm housebound!  back a 18months ago I didn't know where I was when I reached the end of my road, now its the end of my hallway 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten: