The Long Hold Support Group

[[He...]]

Anoushka,

I see from your signature that you "hold as needed" while micro tapering. You don't say how long a necessary hold is.

IMO a hold needs to be atleast until difficult wdfx subside and you are stable at your current dose.

Are you holding long enough? Perhaps a longer hold will give your brain enough time to catch up and adjust to your current dose. Then your wdfx may ease up considerably. Are you holding long enough to feel stable at the dose you are at before cutting again? Rushing ahead  doesn't save you any time or get you off your drug more quickly. It just causes bad wdfx and then you have to hold for a period of time just to let your brain catch up to an aggressive taper anyway. Why not go slow and let those wdfx ease up?

Just saying this , IMO. but you have to decide what is best fir you.

 

Heathcliff

[[ly...]]

 

 

Hey Heath!

 

Your post makes my day!  I am more than happy for you!  :smitten:

[[an...]]

Hi Heath,

 

This is wonderful news!!  I am so happy for you. 

 

Enjoy your day!!

Anne 

[[be...]]

Heath I am over the moon with good thoughts for you, I can read it in your writing and yes go out and spread your message when you find someone that needs help, sometimes a seed needs to be planted to help all the saplings to continue to grow. Continue to remember this even if the times get hard, reread what you wrote, and stay committed to your Taper and Holding. This is just the best news.

 

Good morning Lynn and Anne, hope you are both well. I am doing well, and so very thankful. Have the best day both of you.

[[Va...]]

So happy for you Heath! You stuck it out and now are being rewarded. It is an exercise in total patience for sure.

 

Hope you start feeling better Anoushka. Have you had any improvement no matter how slight?

 

Good morning all. Hope we all have a great day! -- V

[[so...]]

Fantastic, Heathcliff. I actually printed off your post to show to my doctor, as I hope he will permit me to hold for a longer time. Ideally through the holidays.

 

I went from 3.0 mg to 2.8 mg two weeks ago and feel astonishingly bad. It was only 7%, but enough to smack me hard. Worst wave of the taper thus far, and it's not letting up the way it used to. I am so tired, just need to rest for a while. This is such an exhausting process.

 

Your good news makes me feel more hopeful. Glad you're feeling better!

 

~SS

[[ga...]]

Glad you're feeling better, Heath. 

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

V or somebody who does math, Will you look at my math questions MT? Builder answered it but I'm not sure I understand. I wanted an answer in ml but he gave me one in mg.

Thanks.

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

V or somebody who does math, Will you look at my math questions MT? Builder answered it but I'm not sure I understand. I wanted an answer in ml but he gave me one in mg.

Thanks.

 

Gard

Hi gard. I read it the other day. You should be pulling .033 from each of the 3 doses the first day. what size syringes are you using?  If you're diluting at a 10:1 ratio meaning each ml contains .1mg then if you're using a 10ml and 1ml syringe to reduce you would start out at the 9 mark the first day on the 10ml syringe and use the 1ml syringe for reduction. The second day you would drop to 8 on the 10ml syringe and again use the 1ml syringe for the.033 reductions. You'll be reducing a full ml each day if that makes sense. To make the solution you will be dissolving 5mg of L in 50ml of solution. I see you we're going to use 100ml but it's easier IMO to dilute at 10:1 rather than 20:1. It will be less confusing.  --V

[[ga...]]

V or somebody who does math, Will you look at my math questions MT? Builder answered it but I'm not sure I understand. I wanted an answer in ml but he gave me one in mg.

Thanks.

 

Gard

Hi gard. I read it the other day. You should be pulling .033 from each of the 3 doses the first day. what size syringes are you using?  If you're diluting at a 10:1 ratio meaning each ml contains .1mg then if you're using a 10ml and 1ml syringe to reduce you would start out at the 9 mark the first day on the 10ml syringe and use the 1ml syringe for reduction. The second day you would drop to 8 on the 10ml syringe and again use the 1ml syringe for the.033 reductions. You'll be reducing a full ml each day if that makes sense. To make the solution you will be dissolving 5mg of L in 50ml of solution. I see you we're going to use 100ml but it's easier IMO to dilute at 10:1 rather than 20:1. It will be less confusing.  --V

 

Thanks, but I am very used to using 100ml and don't want to switch. Really, I can't conceive of altering my routine of using 100ml. My brain will freak out. Also, I like the more dilute liquid because I tend to be not extremely accurate, dripping and missing the mark and leaving little bubbles.

 

I'm still really confused about the mg vs. ml thing. Am I pulling .033mg from each dose? How much is that from each dose in ml if I dilute using 100ml?

 

Sorry, my brain is very jittery today and I'm having trouble even making sense of what I'm writing, let alone what you're answering. Haven't been getting much sleep.

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

V or somebody who does math, Will you look at my math questions MT? Builder answered it but I'm not sure I understand. I wanted an answer in ml but he gave me one in mg.

Thanks.

 

Gard

Hi gard. I read it the other day. You should be pulling .033 from each of the 3 doses the first day. what size syringes are you using?  If you're diluting at a 10:1 ratio meaning each ml contains .1mg then if you're using a 10ml and 1ml syringe to reduce you would start out at the 9 mark the first day on the 10ml syringe and use the 1ml syringe for reduction. The second day you would drop to 8 on the 10ml syringe and again use the 1ml syringe for the.033 reductions. You'll be reducing a full ml each day if that makes sense. To make the solution you will be dissolving 5mg of L in 50ml of solution. I see you we're going to use 100ml but it's easier IMO to dilute at 10:1 rather than 20:1. It will be less confusing.  --V

 

Thanks, but I am very used to using 100ml and don't want to switch. Really, I can't conceive of altering my routine of using 100ml. My brain will freak out. Also, I like the more dilute liquid because I tend to be not extremely accurate, dripping and missing the mark and leaving little bubbles.

 

I'm still really confused about the mg vs. ml thing. Am I pulling .033mg from each dose? How much is that from each dose in ml if I dilute using 100ml?

 

Sorry, my brain is very jittery today and I'm having trouble even making sense of what I'm writing, let alone what you're answering. Haven't been getting much sleep.

 

Gard

No worries.  You are diluting at 20:1 so you would double the amount pulled. If you want to remove .1ml a day, you would pull .066ml for each dose for a total of 2ml per day. --V

[[ga...]]

V or somebody who does math, Will you look at my math questions MT? Builder answered it but I'm not sure I understand. I wanted an answer in ml but he gave me one in mg.

Thanks.

 

Gard

Hi gard. I read it the other day. You should be pulling .033 from each of the 3 doses the first day. what size syringes are you using?  If you're diluting at a 10:1 ratio meaning each ml contains .1mg then if you're using a 10ml and 1ml syringe to reduce you would start out at the 9 mark the first day on the 10ml syringe and use the 1ml syringe for reduction. The second day you would drop to 8 on the 10ml syringe and again use the 1ml syringe for the.033 reductions. You'll be reducing a full ml each day if that makes sense. To make the solution you will be dissolving 5mg of L in 50ml of solution. I see you we're going to use 100ml but it's easier IMO to dilute at 10:1 rather than 20:1. It will be less confusing.  --V

 

Thanks, but I am very used to using 100ml and don't want to switch. Really, I can't conceive of altering my routine of using 100ml. My brain will freak out. Also, I like the more dilute liquid because I tend to be not extremely accurate, dripping and missing the mark and leaving little bubbles.

 

I'm still really confused about the mg vs. ml thing. Am I pulling .033mg from each dose? How much is that from each dose in ml if I dilute using 100ml?

 

Sorry, my brain is very jittery today and I'm having trouble even making sense of what I'm writing, let alone what you're answering. Haven't been getting much sleep.

 

Gard

No worries.  You are diluting at 20:1 so you would double the amount pulled. If you want to remove .1ml a day, you would pull .066ml for each dose for a total of 2ml per day. --V

 

OK, V, how many times did you edit your numbers before you came up with that? I see that edit note!

 

I'm kind of laughing, but I still can't fathom how you came up with that number. Where's the emoticon for my-brain-is-broken? Guess this will do.

[[ga...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

[[Va...]]

V or somebody who does math, Will you look at my math questions MT? Builder answered it but I'm not sure I understand. I wanted an answer in ml but he gave me one in mg.

Thanks.

 

Gard

Hi gard. I read it the other day. You should be pulling .033 from each of the 3 doses the first day. what size syringes are you using?  If you're diluting at a 10:1 ratio meaning each ml contains .1mg then if you're using a 10ml and 1ml syringe to reduce you would start out at the 9 mark the first day on the 10ml syringe and use the 1ml syringe for reduction. The second day you would drop to 8 on the 10ml syringe and again use the 1ml syringe for the.033 reductions. You'll be reducing a full ml each day if that makes sense. To make the solution you will be dissolving 5mg of L in 50ml of solution. I see you we're going to use 100ml but it's easier IMO to dilute at 10:1 rather than 20:1. It will be less confusing.  --V

 

Thanks, but I am very used to using 100ml and don't want to switch. Really, I can't conceive of altering my routine of using 100ml. My brain will freak out. Also, I like the more dilute liquid because I tend to be not extremely accurate, dripping and missing the mark and leaving little bubbles.

 

I'm still really confused about the mg vs. ml thing. Am I pulling .033mg from each dose? How much is that from each dose in ml if I dilute using 100ml?

 

Sorry, my brain is very jittery today and I'm having trouble even making sense of what I'm writing, let alone what you're answering. Haven't been getting much sleep.

 

Gard

No worries.  You are diluting at 20:1 so you would double the amount pulled. If you want to remove .1ml a day, you would pull .066ml for each dose for a total of 2ml per day. --V

 

OK, V, how many times did you edit your numbers before you came up with that? I see that edit note!

 

I'm kind of laughing, but I still can't fathom how you came up with that number. Where's the emoticon for my-brain-is-broken? Guess this will do.

LOL gard!  I edited it to add the 2ml per day to try and make it easier to understand. I'm trying to write from remembrance of the extreme cog fog I had earlier. There's no way I could have figured it out then. 

[[Va...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

[[He...]]

Thank you all for you happy thoughts for me! YoU BUDDIES ARE THE BEST!

 

I just realized that I don't look for Windows anymore! My days ARE ALL WINDOWS for the most part.

Now I just deals with waves as they come.

 

A pattern of more good days have started  outnumbering the bad. And I bet it will get even better in the next few weeks. And the bad days are NOTHING compared to what they used to be.

Yippee. I REALLY THINK I AM ON MY WAY TO PEACE.

 

I sincerely wish better times for all of you who are struggling. Gardner, MiYu, Pleasbehere Baddove, and anyone else, I wish you all better tomorrows, peace, healing, courage, strength,  perseverance and determination.

 

(((Hugs))). Heathcliff

[[ba...]]

Thanks Gard, just knowing someone else goes through this helps. I was explaining to my therapist that my mind is in panic, not because of any thing in particular, it just is, and it looks for fears to latch on to. Its not the thoughts that come first, its the heightened anxiety. And the brain wants a justification for the red danger sign flashing in the amygdyla, so it looks for threats.

 

 

Exactly! And just realizing that this is what your brain is doing, looking for the source of the danger that really isn't there, is a huge step toward surviving this.

 

Interestingly, I was just thinking about this today. I got jolt of anxiety out of nowhere and I remembered when I tried to do cognitive behavioral therapy (disaster). CBT = "Now what thought did I have that led to this jolt and how do I argue that thought away?" The answer is usually NOTHING. And arguing just makes me fixate and and feel worse. The jolt just happens and then the brain looks for something to attach it to and the thought comes later. I know some people like CBT, but I found it only made me worse. So I tried something else, mindful acceptance (also called ACT in therapy jargon).

 

I find mindful acceptance much more helpful. Mindful acceptance =  "I am aware that I am having organic jolts of anxiety. I am having intrusive thoughts. That was another one. It might be long or short. I don't know. There is nothing really dangerous happening but that is not going to stop them from jolting me. Suffering is part of being human and I accept it." And then, if I am able, I go ahead and act in a way that is in accord with my values (such as doing something to take some burden off of my daughter who is a working college student that I lean on way too much). If I need to, I distract and/or collapse and wait.

 

Here's another of my favorite coping techniques: mindful guided breathing by a woman with the most wonderful, soothing, soft British accent. I love listening to her voice. There's a link to it here:

 

http://franticworld.com/resources/free-meditations-from-mindfulness-for-health/

 

I like the breathing anchor, but I will do the shorter one sometimes, too. These are free samples from an audiobook about coping with chronic pain or any significant health problems. The breathing anchor has helped me tremendously. The whole program, that includes 8 different meditations and weekly practices, is supposed to take 8 weeks, but I'm in w/d so I whipped through it in only 10 months!

 

Bought the course on my kindle with speech option. Downloaded the breathing meditations. Only took me 30 minutes, snort, but for 30 minutes I wasn't  having ongoing panic attacks. The second book, the art of breathing, or something like that is not now available in the US.

[[He...]]

Good luck with your tapering Gard.

 

I'm glad you have V to help you with the math and your dosing. He helped me figure out my dosing when I switched to liquid Valium.

 

I dont know what you two are talking about, I am " a bit mathematically challenged".

 

I hope your struggles become lighter  very soon Gard !

 

Peace and healing to you!

 

Heathcliff

[[ga...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

 

Before I celebrate...are you sure?? Cuz I sure ain't.

[[Va...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

 

Before I celebrate...are you sure?? Cuz I sure ain't.

I'm positive lol. Always trust but verify. 

[[...]]

Hello everyone,

I need some encouragement please.

It has been 2 weeks now, since my second hold. It has been an uphill battle trying to deal with symptoms old and new.

Some of the new are sudden dizzy surges, that cause me to loose my footing.

Tinnitus too in my left ear. Abdominal pains, elevated BP and palpitations, depression, crying, and just feeling completely unwell.

I wonder if I should keep holding hoping for miracles, or resume my taper.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Wishing everyone who are dealing with difficult times healing blessings.

Anoushka

 

Hi anoushka , sorry you are suffering, I am too.... Today is horrible for me, worst day in a while, the last week has been gradually getting worse and I feel very ill. I don't really have anxiety so much as physical symptoms , and I guess fear too that I will never recover.

Blessings to you too 

 

For others here- Heath , so happy for you that you are getting better. I see that you made some big cuts to start out... How was that for you? I wonder if I should make a bigger cut and then hold out for a few months. How long were you on benzos for before your cross to V?

 

I feel so sick today , I have pins and needles all over, weak legs , burning , feel like I want to throw up. Valium makes me feel worse. It's been a month and although I felt some progress i feel now like I'm going backwards. I woke up depressed which makes everything so much harder, don't want to eat. Hot and cold sweats. Seems the last week or more I've been gradually getting worse.

I know you said Valley that I could look at this as healing time , but it sure doesn't feel like it, and I've never had a window since I made the cross over from K.

Why am I getting worse ? Days like today I don't want to go on with this but what choice do we have?

I honestly wouldn't care about holding more if I felt like I was on a lower dose , I just feel like I'm going to go through this hell forever . Things started getting harder as soon as I started the V taper back in June. Well, aside from the horrific cross over from K. My nerves just feel like they are on fire .

 

Thanks for listening , again. Yes, I'm questioning holding , but I don't dare cut either. But some of you just cut back so quickly to begin with, and I haven't been able to do that at all.

 

[[ga...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

 

Before I celebrate...are you sure?? Cuz I sure ain't.

I'm positive lol. Always trust but verify. 

 

Then maybe we should take a vote! But does adding more benzo brains to the mix make it more or less likely we'll get the right answer? 

[[ga...]]

So sorry you're still feeling so bad MiYu.

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

OK, how's this?

 

10% of my 30mg/day dose = 3mg.

 

So I divide that by days in a month and come up with .1mg/day.

 

5mg is diluted to 100ml. So 1mg = 20ml.

 

.1mg = 2ml.

 

Then I divide by 3 and get .66ml. Why do I end up with the decimal point in the wrong place?

The decimal is in the right place. Mine is in the wrong place.  --V

 

Before I celebrate...are you sure?? Cuz I sure ain't.

I'm positive lol. Always trust but verify. 

 

Then maybe we should take a vote! But does adding more benzo brains to the mix make it more or less likely we'll get the right answer? 

LOL. Probably less. 

[[Va...]]

Hello everyone,

I need some encouragement please.

It has been 2 weeks now, since my second hold. It has been an uphill battle trying to deal with symptoms old and new.

Some of the new are sudden dizzy surges, that cause me to loose my footing.

Tinnitus too in my left ear. Abdominal pains, elevated BP and palpitations, depression, crying, and just feeling completely unwell.

I wonder if I should keep holding hoping for miracles, or resume my taper.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Wishing everyone who are dealing with difficult times healing blessings.

Anoushka

 

Hi anoushka , sorry you are suffering, I am too.... Today is horrible for me, worst day in a while, the last week has been gradually getting worse and I feel very ill. I don't really have anxiety so much as physical symptoms , and I guess fear too that I will never recover.

Blessings to you too 

 

For others here- Heath , so happy for you that you are getting better. I see that you made some big cuts to start out... How was that for you? I wonder if I should make a bigger cut and then hold out for a few months. How long were you on benzos for before your cross to V?

 

I feel so sick today , I have pins and needles all over, weak legs , burning , feel like I want to throw up. Valium makes me feel worse. It's been a month and although I felt some progress i feel now like I'm going backwards. I woke up depressed which makes everything so much harder, don't want to eat. Hot and cold sweats. Seems the last week or more I've been gradually getting worse.

I know you said Valley that I could look at this as healing time , but it sure doesn't feel like it, and I've never had a window since I made the cross over from K.

Why am I getting worse ? Days like today I don't want to go on with this but what choice do we have?

I honestly wouldn't care about holding more if I felt like I was on a lower dose , I just feel like I'm going to go through this hell forever . Things started getting harder as soon as I started the V taper back in June. Well, aside from the horrific cross over from K. My nerves just feel like they are on fire .

 

Thanks for listening , again. Yes, I'm questioning holding , but I don't dare cut either. But some of you just cut back so quickly to begin with, and I haven't been able to do that at all.

 

Hi Miyu. When I look at your signature it looks like you started cutting as soon as you crossed over to the V without holding for a few months to withdraw from the K fully and get used to the V. That may be why you're having a rough time. I'd certainly recommend holding for a while and things should start to calm down IMO.  --V