The Long Hold Support Group

[Guest [ha...]]

Thank you V

[[no...]]

Thank you Shamo3...I might try that...this is so hard.

Hi  hardtocope  5-HTP,  Be very careful what you take, research everything and make informed choices,  I took that when unknown to me my ''illnesses'  were actually severe tolerance withdrawal one dose an hour later I thought I was going to die and spent the night unable to move in agony with no sleep , and anxiety from hell. I had known side effects form it that are thought to be caused by a build up over time, but one low dose really put me in hell.  Its works like an  SSRI , and uses the same pathway's as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

''5 HTP and SSRIs both act on the serotonin pathway in the brain

and they are both used to treat depression and other mood disorders.''

 

http://www.progressivehealth.com/using-ssri-and-5-htp-together.htm

 

Common Side Effects of 5-HTP http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

[[ba...]]

I need encouragement. have been in agony for a week, with at least one episode each day that feels so bad, it is reminiscent of cold turkey (which I did 15 years ago when I was on this stuff)

 

I was cruising along until a week ago, and the bottom fell out. Not great, but able to function part of the day, no episodes as strong as the "cold turkey" ones I am experiencing. I could tolerate it. Had days that were a complete loss, but it wasn't like it has been. The intense withdraw doesn't creep up, it slams, during a dose. It can hit at 2 hours, 3 hours 4 hours, or 5 hours  As I wait it out, the next dose never seems to catch up, and I don't really recover. Before, the dose would gradually start amping  into interdose wd, but I could hold out, and my next dose would give me relief-not right away, it took about 2 hours. During that hard window I would do chores, exercise, etc, distractions.

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

That's all. thanks friends.

[[ga...]]

Cope, I responded to you over on MT but I'm glad to see you here because it doesn't sound like you are ready to taper.

 

Could you add your experience with Lexapro to your signature? Also, have you tried survivingantidepressants.org?

 

Gard

[[Va...]]

I need encouragement. have been in agony for a week, with at least one episode each day that feels so bad, it is reminiscent of cold turkey (which I did 15 years ago when I was on this stuff)

 

I was cruising along until a week ago, and the bottom fell out. Not great, but able to function part of the day, no episodes as strong as the "cold turkey" ones I am experiencing. I could tolerate it. Had days that were a complete loss, but it wasn't like it has been. The intense withdraw doesn't creep up, it slams, during a dose. It can hit at 2 hours, 3 hours 4 hours, or 5 hours  As I wait it out, the next dose never seems to catch up, and I don't really recover. Before, the dose would gradually start amping  into interdose wd, but I could hold out, and my next dose would give me relief-not right away, it took about 2 hours. During that hard window I would do chores, exercise, etc, distractions.

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

That's all. thanks friends.

I'm sorry about your problems BD. I don't have much experience tapering xanax. It is so short acting and has to be dosed so often I don't know what to tell you. I know there are a few here tapering xanax. Hopefully they have some answers about how to taper to avoid the issues you're having by getting your doses spaced out right and at the right level so you don't have to suffer anymore.  --V

[[Ho...]]

I need encouragement. have been in agony for a week, with at least one episode each day that feels so bad, it is reminiscent of cold turkey (which I did 15 years ago when I was on this stuff)

 

I was cruising along until a week ago, and the bottom fell out. Not great, but able to function part of the day, no episodes as strong as the "cold turkey" ones I am experiencing. I could tolerate it. Had days that were a complete loss, but it wasn't like it has been. The intense withdraw doesn't creep up, it slams, during a dose. It can hit at 2 hours, 3 hours 4 hours, or 5 hours  As I wait it out, the next dose never seems to catch up, and I don't really recover. Before, the dose would gradually start amping  into interdose wd, but I could hold out, and my next dose would give me relief-not right away, it took about 2 hours. During that hard window I would do chores, exercise, etc, distractions.

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

That's all. thanks friends.

I'm sorry about your problems BD. I don't have much experience tapering xanax. It is so short acting and has to be dosed so often I don't know what to tell you. I know there are a few here tapering xanax. Hopefully they have some answers about how to taper to avoid the issues you're having by getting your doses spaced out right and at the right level so you don't have to suffer anymore.  --V

 

Baddove,

 

I forget if crossing to Valium is an option for you? I started out on Xanax and was spacing my doses every 6 hrs but the interdose withdrawals were still horrific. I could not taper it directly so crossed to Valium. If your sig is right you are on 5.5 mg X so that would be equivalent to 110 mg V per Ashton. That's a pretty hefty dose so maybe you could do just a partial crossover to help with some of the interdose withdrawal and be able to taper off some of the Xanax. I know Kgirl10 did a partial cross from K to V. I don't know, just a thought. I just know I am doing so much better with the Valium even though it takes forever to taper. It really smoothed things out for me, once I got tolerant to the sedation. I know there are a few on this thread that are successfully tapering off directly from X, I am just not one of those people.

 

Hope

[[ba...]]

I need encouragement. have been in agony for a week, with at least one episode each day that feels so bad, it is reminiscent of cold turkey (which I did 15 years ago when I was on this stuff)

 

I was cruising along until a week ago, and the bottom fell out. Not great, but able to function part of the day, no episodes as strong as the "cold turkey" ones I am experiencing. I could tolerate it. Had days that were a complete loss, but it wasn't like it has been. The intense withdraw doesn't creep up, it slams, during a dose. It can hit at 2 hours, 3 hours 4 hours, or 5 hours  As I wait it out, the next dose never seems to catch up, and I don't really recover. Before, the dose would gradually start amping  into interdose wd, but I could hold out, and my next dose would give me relief-not right away, it took about 2 hours. During that hard window I would do chores, exercise, etc, distractions.

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

That's all. thanks friends.

I'm sorry about your problems BD. I don't have much experience tapering xanax. It is so short acting and has to be dosed so often I don't know what to tell you. I know there are a few here tapering xanax. Hopefully they have some answers about how to taper to avoid the issues you're having by getting your doses spaced out right and at the right level so you don't have to suffer anymore.  --V

 

Baddove,

 

I forget if crossing to Valium is an option for you? I started out on Xanax and was spacing my doses every 6 hrs but the interdose withdrawals were still horrific. I could not taper it directly so crossed to Valium. If your sig is right you are on 5.5 mg X so that would be equivalent to 110 mg V per Ashton. That's a pretty hefty dose so maybe you could do just a partial crossover to help with some of the interdose withdrawal and be able to taper off some of the Xanax. I know Kgirl10 did a partial cross from K to V. I don't know, just a thought. I just know I am doing so much better with the Valium even though it takes forever to taper. It really smoothed things out for me, once I got tolerant to the sedation. I know there are a few on this thread that are successfully tapering off directly from X, I am just not one of those people.

 

Hope

 

Appreciate your input. I was given valium before I was given xanax, it did not react well with my system. You are spot on about the 6 hours being agony, but I persevere.

 

I think once I get stable (please let that happen) on my current cut, and hold  a bit to calm down, I might consider it. I am not sure my doc would go along with it, based on my initial valium experience. His only suggestion has been to use Xanax XR, I tried it, didn't like it, it felt like I was dopey and stupid at the higher dose, and I felt perpetually undermedicated at the lower dose. This was last December. This was in concert with the regular xanax. It did not help me taper.

 

I really appreciate everyone's input.

 

What about split dosing? Does that help? Taking part of the dose and waiting 30 minutes or more to take the rest? Does anyone have any knowledge about split dosing? I am not going to try it in my current state unless I get some input, I don't want to make things worse.

[[Ho...]]

I need encouragement. have been in agony for a week, with at least one episode each day that feels so bad, it is reminiscent of cold turkey (which I did 15 years ago when I was on this stuff)

 

I was cruising along until a week ago, and the bottom fell out. Not great, but able to function part of the day, no episodes as strong as the "cold turkey" ones I am experiencing. I could tolerate it. Had days that were a complete loss, but it wasn't like it has been. The intense withdraw doesn't creep up, it slams, during a dose. It can hit at 2 hours, 3 hours 4 hours, or 5 hours  As I wait it out, the next dose never seems to catch up, and I don't really recover. Before, the dose would gradually start amping  into interdose wd, but I could hold out, and my next dose would give me relief-not right away, it took about 2 hours. During that hard window I would do chores, exercise, etc, distractions.

 

Any thoughts or experience with this?

 

That's all. thanks friends.

I'm sorry about your problems BD. I don't have much experience tapering xanax. It is so short acting and has to be dosed so often I don't know what to tell you. I know there are a few here tapering xanax. Hopefully they have some answers about how to taper to avoid the issues you're having by getting your doses spaced out right and at the right level so you don't have to suffer anymore.  --V

 

Baddove,

 

I forget if crossing to Valium is an option for you? I started out on Xanax and was spacing my doses every 6 hrs but the interdose withdrawals were still horrific. I could not taper it directly so crossed to Valium. If your sig is right you are on 5.5 mg X so that would be equivalent to 110 mg V per Ashton. That's a pretty hefty dose so maybe you could do just a partial crossover to help with some of the interdose withdrawal and be able to taper off some of the Xanax. I know Kgirl10 did a partial cross from K to V. I don't know, just a thought. I just know I am doing so much better with the Valium even though it takes forever to taper. It really smoothed things out for me, once I got tolerant to the sedation. I know there are a few on this thread that are successfully tapering off directly from X, I am just not one of those people.

 

Hope

 

Appreciate your input. I was given valium before I was given xanax, it did not react well with my system. You are spot on about the 6 hours being agony, but I persevere.

 

I think once I get stable (please let that happen) on my current cut, and hold  a bit to calm down, I might consider it. I am not sure my doc would go along with it, based on my initial valium experience. His only suggestion has been to use Xanax XR, I tried it, didn't like it, it felt like I was dopey and stupid at the higher dose, and I felt perpetually undermedicated at the lower dose. This was last December. This was in concert with the regular xanax. It did not help me taper.

 

I really appreciate everyone's input.

 

What about split dosing? Does that help? Taking part of the dose and waiting 30 minutes or more to take the rest? Does anyone have any knowledge about split dosing? I am not going to try it in my current state unless I get some input, I don't want to make things worse.

 

I never tried the split dosing so can't help you there. I will tell

you Valium takes some time to build up and you eventually get tolerance to the sedation, at least I did. I did a very atypical crossover where my psych started me on half the recommended Ashton dose of V in addition to my Xanax dose. He told me to wait a week then start to wean the Xanax. After a few weeks of tapering X it became clear I needed more Valium so I added in the other half and was able to taper the rest of the X. I remember being so sedated in the beginning I peed myself in my sleep. But my body did adjust. Good luck, I hope you can find an answer.

[[ga...]]

Dove, When I was on Xanax, I had to dose it 6 times/day, including in the middle of the night. I am crossed to Librium. I did it very, very slowly and was lucky to have a prescriber who was wiling to prescribe part and part for the many months it took me to cross. Librium is long like V but is a pain to taper.

 

Gard

[[ba...]]

Thanks for the input on the 6 hours folks. I had some leftover  .5 mg XR, and took one 3 hours ago, although they are very old. I just hit 6 hours, and I am not insane. I feel stupid and depressed, but not in deep withdraw. I am confident that if I like them better this time than I did almost a year ago, my doc will script me more. Have to wait and see.

 

This will last 24 hours, will see how it goes.

 

I have been so depressed today, because I feel like I am completely failing and can't taper. crying, hopeless, terrified that I can't taper. Thanks everyone, I need your support so badly, no one in my real life knows what I go through. It's pointless to tell anyone, they don't understand and can't relate. My family and friends know I am tapering, but they really are not the people to talk to about the pain.

 

Even my doctor doesn't get it. But, that's typical.

 

[[...]]

Hello my long hold friends.... I haven't been on in some days, had a really rough couple of weeks since that last almost 1/4 mg V cut. This last Thursday was really bad ,the worst of my WDs symptoms.  then the weekend things started to improve a bit.

Today I had more energy and even went to the store and bought some  groceries , it was hard , and my back is on fire now as I think i revved up the nerves, but I feel  like/ HOPE , I'm through the worst of this last cut. Still going to hold.

 

Wow, I'm so sorry for everyone's struggles, I do hope everyone is improving even just a little bit each day,tho I know it's a roller coaster as we heal ( Baddove, Heathcliff,) .

 

Thank you so much for all your well wishes to me too , I feel very grateful to be here and have your support.

 

A couple of things I remember from people's posts the last few days..... 5 htp..... I didn't do well with it, but I do fine with L tryptophan because it is processed by the liver whereas 5 htp isn't, and so its more manageable I think , but definitely don't take with SSRI s! I did that once and got very very sick .

CBD oil.... I've experimented with it and it just doesn't seem to do  much for me. I do find Inositol helps with anxiety , and I take a small amount of melatonin for sleep, plus I do vape some cannabis at night if I can't sleep , it helps. It doesn't work on GABA receptors as ValleyUm answered. We have a cannabanoid system and it attaches to those receptors.

 

 

Hang in there everyone, sending hugs to all of you.

 

[[...]]

Question - I get scared that the Valium is making me sick as well as the WDs . I never feel good after I take a dose. I don't suppose there's much to be done about it as there's  no way I would cross back to K, and. Doubt any of the other benzos are any easier.

So , I guess my question is , I don't know how to tell what's WD and what's side effects from the V? Perhaps we experience both. Hopefully side effects get less the lower the dose

[[He...]]

Hello,

Good days have begun to be less good. Still better than four weeks ago, but the really good 4-5  days of last week are gone.  You all were so happy for me just a few days ago! It felt so good! Sorry to say the good days did not last.

 

Been feeling pretty bad all day lately. Really really bad waves in the evenings for about three hours.

Neck,  back,  headaches jelly legs. Yes they have been going away at night but they ruin my day almost to incapacity,from 5 to 8 o'clock. No relief from neck pain ever.

 

I know that you all know about the non linear healing process. So you know I am not crazy when I post here so many changes in how I feel every single day. It's so unpredictable! !

 

I know my brain is healing, that's what keeps me going, but I hate feeling so sick and knowing that I have  at least a year or more of this.

 

Thank you begood, Anne, Lynne, V, and anyone I forgot,for your support. I am trying to do what you recommend. I am distracting as much as I can. I will get there.

 

Thanks, Heath

Day 62 and holding

 

[[wa...]]

Hi - just wanted to insert myself in again to thank Valley Um and all who replied to me.  I was encouraged on other threads to get off my Z drug under 8 months which was too fast for me.  It took 10 this time round and I would have held longer if I felt I could get stable again on a low dose.  But Lunesta is a weird benzo.  In my case some of the severe muscle pain I was having lifted a bit after I jumped.  Go figure.

 

Jumping has been very difficult with muscle and nerve pain but each day is about .01% better than the day before.   

 

I often read of the difficulties of hard working taperers on here.  And wonder how Oscar is doing.  I'm feeling hopeful today -- probably foolish since I'm so soon off the L but I want to thank you guys and commend you all for hanging in there on this often horrible journey.  I remember having that sensation of being in a plane that was going to crash all the time.  I don't have that sensation now.  Maybe they're right.  Maybe it does get better.  WBB

[[He...]]

Glad to see you here again MiYu,

 

Good to hear that your wdfx eased up a bit.

It does get harder the lower you go in Your tapering dose, but I believe th size of a cut makes a big difference in wdfx.

I couldn't  make a .25 cut all at once. It would slay me! I know it's not that big if a cut for most people but it is for me. When I start to tPer again, I will probably micro taper..01 for three days (.03) and hold to see what happens. Then I'll readjust  as needed after I see what wdfx I get.

 

IMO, Try to keep a good log of how you feel after each cut and for the next two weeks. Valium has a delayed reaction because of its long half life. So wait a good , two weeks to see how you feel. Once you know fir sure how much of a cut your brain and body can handle, then you'll be able to adjust your tapering holds and cuts at an amount that you can handle, and hopefully your wdfx will not be so bad.

Glad you are holding. IMO, it will take time to stabelize, just like V says. Then tapering will be easier.

Good luck!,

 

Heath

[[Sh...]]

I'm also one of those blessed ones who can't go faster than .01/7 days. I want to be able to function having 2 kids who count on me for driving them to their hobbies/school etc... I always adjust my planning according to how i feel. As for this moment i'm having a very bad cold and i can't stand baring sxs of tapering so i'll hold a week until i feel better cauz what i'm feeling now is illness and i can't have taperstuff hanging extra over my head. I know this is gonna be a long run but i'd rather run it being able to live a little than go fast and dying from pain and agony all of the time. That isn't a job a mom suppost to do !

Wish you all lots of luck and follow your body and your pace ; that's the best way to work out. I'll have a lot of muscle tension, sometimes nausea, and lots of trouble breathing (like a brick on my chest) but as i had this from the beginning i suppose this is my baseline. Everything that comes extra is a nono and a hold. 

Hoping everybody is feeling well enough to make as much of his/her life as possible .. get lots of walks outside if you can... do what you love, and think of other things than tapering. There is a life next to that even though i wouldn't believe it at first. Enjoy life cauz it's so short !

Good luck all xxx

[[ly...]]

 

 

Heath,

 

I have the neck tension on and off and have had since day one.  When it's gone, I think FINALLY - only to have it back.  A few days ago I had some very mild chest pressure and neck "strangling".  I haven't had these two in a while.  The coming and going is something I have come to accept.  Honestly, what else can we do?

 

T is still coming and going as are stomach issues and lack of appetite.

 

I'm very sure that things will diminish for you and the windows will get longer and longer.  We just have to accept things and roll with it - not easy, I know.  I try, pretty successfully, to have the best attitude I can about this process.  Right now I am having a little talk with myself...the stress of the past few days has caused a ramp-up and I need to work on my mindset.

[[ly...]]

 

 

WB - congrats on the jump!  We are all pulling for you and hoping/expecting that you will improve with each day.  I know you will  and are! 

[[ly...]]

 

MiYu,

 

I hope you feel better! 

 

Shake - you are an inspiration and have found a path that is working for you - 90% of the battle! 

[[be...]]

Heath I think the main thing I have learned when I decided to do a third taper, was that I had to make up my mind how I would proceed and 1.Take as long as it takes, and not worry bout the time going by. 2.Accepting that it was not going to be easy and that I must roll with the punches. 3. Knowing that this is a Process our Brain is going through to regain its rightful place, after all it has been in a drug induced sleep with the Benzo's. 4.Distract and if I feel badly just do something and mostly not let it consume my day with thoughts, because I will assure you they get bigger and bigger as the day goes by. I know of someone young that is going through a Cancer dx and has had a horrible taper and when asked how that was doing during this trying time she stated. "I really have not had time to worry about it, my focus is getting well and I actually feel OK", that tells me a lot about this Process we all go through. We must find something to give us Peace.

 

Shake I am so proud of you and reclaiming your life and doing the walk, even when you wanted to hide out at home, you are living your Dream.

 

Lynn, I hope you feel better soon, and I also believe that things in life can and will ramp up these benzo sx, but you will win out, you know what to do, and soon you will be doing your thing.

 

MiYu, thinking of you and hang in there, it will get better, but it takes time as much time as the Brain needs.

[[Va...]]

Miyu- you're doing great!  Sometimes we feel worse before we feel better. It's not unusual to feel worse after dosing with V. I found that for me that was a withdrawal symptom and eventually resolved. Hope it does for you too.

 

Heath, hang in there. It's up and down and sometimes you will feel a little worse before you feel better.

 

Lynn, Shake, BG, you are all doing great proving that slow and steady is the way to go. So glad to have wisdom from those who are experienced with tapering!  --V

[[ba...]]

Hello my long hold friends.... I haven't been on in some days, had a really rough couple of weeks since that last almost 1/4 mg V cut. This last Thursday was really bad ,the worst of my WDs symptoms.  then the weekend things started to improve a bit.

Today I had more energy and even went to the store and bought some  groceries , it was hard , and my back is on fire now as I think i revved up the nerves, but I feel  like/ HOPE , I'm through the worst of this last cut. Still going to hold.

 

Wow, I'm so sorry for everyone's struggles, I do hope everyone is improving even just a little bit each day,tho I know it's a roller coaster as we heal ( Baddove, Heathcliff,) .

 

 

CBD oil.... I've experimented with it and it just doesn't seem to do  much for me. I do find Inositol helps with anxiety , and I take a small amount of melatonin for sleep, plus I do vape some cannabis at night if I can't sleep , it helps. It doesn't work on GABA receptors as ValleyUm answered. We have a cannabanoid system and it attaches to those receptors.

 

 

Hang in there everyone, sending hugs to all of you.

 

Glad to hear from so many of you, seems like most of us are struggling, I wish this was not such a nightmare. Love and support to all. I took  a (.5) Xanax xr yesturday afternoon, I can't report any improvement, Waiting to se if it helps me with the 6 hour holds. If not, I am going to cut back to 5.5 hours, the 6 hours are overwhelming. I also probably need to give the XR more than one day, unless I feel it's making me worse. I have felt weird since I woke up, it could be the lack of cannibioids, or it could be the XR, I don't know.

 

I had real problems with the side effects of valium for those dealing with that drug.:foggy, agitated, and amped up for those dealing with valium, hence, I wont use it again.

 

I did not take my cannibiboid CBD last night, and slept much worse than usual. Also woke up needing to dose , didn't have the 30 or more minute I can wait period. Also, wow, body ache.

 

I have been so bad however, I was getting suspicious of  the CBD. I know that any supplements I took have thrown me out the window, only to discover they inhibit absorption of benzodiazapines.

 

I looked and looked to find this, I am not interested in anecdotal stories, I want studies. Could not find the original ones conducted in Europe which claimed cannibinoids were not an issue.

 

Would appreciate everyone's input on the article.

 

Here is the study I found linking benzos to cross tolerance with CBD canibinoids:http://www.alternet.org/drugs/cbd-drug-interactions-role-cytochrome-p450

[[ly...]]

 

 

It may be diff to judge the XR with stopping CBD at the same time.  Consistency is very important.  I'd be wary of any supplements.  I have no knowledge of CBD.

[[He...]]

Hello,

What in the world is CBD? I guess I should be glad that I don't know what it is but I am curious.

 

Thank you Begood and Lynn, and V and MIYU, and Shake, baddove, for understanding me. I am inspired my your words.

 

I used to think that the inner shakes and trembles were bad but this neckthing is much worse. I sure hope it goes  away again for you if you have it right now, and if you don't, I hope it never comes back again!    ( something not to look forward to!)

 

For me, I have decided to put a timer at my side when I use my iPad. I am on it way too much and a chiropractor once told me he has been getting many more patients with neck problems ever since mobile phones and iPads, etc have become part of daily life. People just hold their heads in one position for hours and it is very bad for your muscles.

 

I am also going to force myself to go to the gym, even if I am hurting ( not too bad hurting). Maybe that will help.

My shakes and trembles are gone except for a "blip" here and there. Thank goodness.

 

I am going to start my macrame again,  and I will finish that scarf I started to knit last fall before winter passes me by .......again!

 

Here's hoping my moving around more may just help my neck.........

And back and legs and head and tinnitus and...... you get it

 

Heathcliff

[[an...]]

Hi WB,

 

Congratulations on your jump.  It will get better with time.  I am happy to hear you have seen some  improvement.

 

Anne