Can anything help OCD type symptoms and intrusive thoughts desperate.

[[le...]]

Desperate for intrusive thoughts, OCD type symptoms to improve. Not reall true OCD more paranoia about certain things. No material what I try nothing helps, CBT useless, really frightened taking any supplements. Had nearly 18 months of this hell, the anti depressants made lot worse. Book I read said not true OCD is chemical reaction fro drugs so CBT won't help. The mental symptoms are much harder to fight than physical and literally feel have no control over my brain. As others have said this 2nd year feels much worst than the 1 st year.

[[or...]]

Talk therapy (not CBT) helped me immensely with my loony OCD thoughts during my taper. It might help you, too. Yeah, therapists' offices are closed but they are holding telehealth sessions. Mine is. I bet if you phoned around you could find someone.

 

Just an idea.

 

Katz

[[le...]]

I did see psychotherapist for 1 session was good but now only doing zoom which didn't work for me. What type therapy did you do. CBT doesn't work if it's caused by withdrawal.

[Guest [ba...]]

Maybe try to give your mind something to do to keep it busy.  A kind of active meditation, I guess.  You could, for example, count by 7's to 700 (or 7000).  Or come up with a flower name for each letter of the alphabet, forward then backwards thru the alphabet.  It's still a kind of looping, I guess, but one that you're more in charge of.  The idea is to re-take control of your mind, so that you decide (at least more often) what your mind thinks.  I think it has to be a deliberate, conscious exercise.

 

Vary the mental task.  Be continually creative.  Maybe look for yellow in every item in a room (one item at a time).  That kind of activity also encourages good eye movement.  If you're into praying or devotions, do it differently every time you do them.  Less autopilot.  More active thought.

 

It takes practice.  Mastering your mind not going to happen in a day or a week.  It's often kind of a struggle at first.  The mind keeps wanting to do its thing and will try to invalidate your attempts to re-establish control.  Keep working at it, but like any new exercise approach with moderation.  Each time see if you can do it a little longer and a little better.  Get good at putting your mind where you choose and you can overcome just about any random or distressing thought.

[[le...]]

I've tried mindfulness couldn't do it and various things tapestry, painting, knitting only helps for little while. My son was staying for few nights and did ease. The lack of normality not helping. Because not really true OCD  more chemical damage from the drugs especially anti depressants the usual CBT stuff doesn't work. Will try the the therapist once she's working again. OCD symptoms side effect of SSRI's found out now least I stopped them.

[[or...]]

I did see psychotherapist for 1 session was good but now only doing zoom which didn't work for me. What type therapy did you do. CBT doesn't work if it's caused by withdrawal.

 

Psychodynamic talk therapy -- old-fashioned talk therapy. My OCD-like behavior was completely caused by my taper but I don't believe it was "chemical" as so many assert. It was little lunacies that have always been part of my personality (but never caused problems) that were magnified by the anxiety and panic of what I was going through on my taper. It was extremely useful to understand how my little lunacies grew into such huge disabling ones . . . and then I could take steps to stop the OCD behavior.

 

No therapist wants to close their business during the pandemic. Hence, zoom sessions. Yeah, it's a little odd at first, but if you want it bad enough you'll put up with odd. But . . . whatever works for you.

 

badsocref had some good ideas. Maybe try them out?

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

 

[[le...]]

Thanks mine definitely has chemical feel almost like panic attacks at times, not like the normal OCD behaviour especially after learning SSRI's can cause iit all ties in as it escalated after taking them. Gave me so many more things. The Skype didn't work for me I need more personal contact but will go back eventually as have pay for it can't afford too many. Have got very toxic mother always been sidelined in favour of my sister. Did help me work through that. Could also be PTSD as husband nearly died 4 years ago. Hopefully like you therapy eventually help, out of interest how many session did it take to see improvement?

[[or...]]

how many session did it take to see improvement?

 

I was loony and OCD-ish for well over a year. When did things stat improving? After a couple of months.

 

Katz

[[Pt...]]

I personally think ignoring it and distracting is the only way to go about it.

 

The way I think about it is that there are physically damaged neurons in our brain producing action potentials and signals on their own, which creates mental symptoms like intrusive thoughts, ocd like thoughts. They’re not our own actual thoughts but are the end result of these neurons gong haywire. Which is why cbt stuff isn’t going to work. They’re not OUR thoughts!

 

I’ve had intrusive thoughts and memories and rumination the entire time....and I’ve done cbt and emdr WEEKLY for almost an entire year (until coronavirus hit) and nothing helped. In fact the more I tried to force myself to “practice”, the more distressed i became because my brain just isn’t composed of healthy neurons waiting for me to use them anymore. They’re hyperactive, “in pain”, so I found that letting it be and doing nothing is the “most“ I can do.

[Guest [ba...]]

I've tried mindfulness couldn't do it and various things tapestry, painting, knitting only helps for little while. My son was staying for few nights and did ease. The lack of normality not helping. Because not really true OCD  more chemical damage from the drugs especially anti depressants the usual CBT stuff doesn't work. Will try the the therapist once she's working again. OCD symptoms side effect of SSRI's found out now least I stopped them.

 

The cause really doesn't matter (chemical or basal).  The approach is the same.

 

The mind is an interesting place.  Part of it's function is to protect itself from perceived attacks (physical, emotional, cultural, political, etc).  It doesn't like change.  It resists challenge/change even if it's protecting ingrained thought patterns that are actually harmful.  So it will attempt to invalidate your attempts to re-establish control over it.  It will create doubt, fear, anxiety.  It's up to you to cut thru the mind's cr*p, and decide the path that will best advance you.  Hence, my mantra - choose the right wolf!

[Guest [mi...]]

Hi Lean!

Intrusive thoughts are tough to deal with but possible to overcome. Just think of some thoughts that used to scare or bother you that you don't remember and not longer affect you. You can do the same with the actual thoughts. It just a question of time!

Below a site of a guy that really helped me.

Mice

 

[[le...]]

I do think the cause does make a big difference. If it's not caused by the drugs think CBT and various other therapies will help, but as PTSD said basically useless if caused by withdrawal. So basically seems nothing will help just have to hope my brain eventually repairs it's self.  It was mild to start with and gradually got wore as went into withdrawal then ended up with checking compulsions from taking the citalopram. Just feel I will be stuck in this loop for ever as none of the traditional therapies work. As lot people seem to recover at 2 years just have hope will be the case. I can understand how some people feel they can no longer go on though.

[[di...]]

If you're having OCD symptoms, I really think that CBT could help a lot. CBT won't eliminate symptoms but will just give you the tools to cope. It might be difficult to apply some of the techniques given withdrawal but there should be something that you take away, even if it is just reassurance that something you already do is helpful. I don't see any downside whatsoever.

 

I've seen it repeated on here that CBT is useless for benzo withdrawal. I think that was a professional opinion that has been shared. I doubt that whoever said that would have wanted their opinion to be distributed without qualification or explanation. While benzo withdrawal throws up some symptoms that are quite alien and that we don't expect to see again once they resolve, that doesn't make CBT useless. Some of these symptoms can stick around for a while and be very difficult to deal with. Interventions can help although a benzo sufferer probably needs to take more precautions that the treatment doesn't cause a flare up that is worse than the original condition.

 

I feel kinda strange going to bat for CBT. On the whole, I think society would do a lot better if treatment was individualised to a greater degree. CBT seems designed as a replacement to individualised mental health care. It leaves me not really liking it on principle but recognising that there's some value in the treatment. I dare say that an intelligent reader could find a good standard up-to-date CBT course workbook type thing online and work through it independently and get something out of it. It only takes a couple of lightbulb moments... "I should do that more often, it does make me feel better" / "I should stop doing that at all because it doesn't help"... that sort of thing... and you're a winner.

[[le...]]

Sorry have to disagree. Tried CBT both on line, face to face and self help books didn't help at all if anything made me worse. As I said if it's purely a behavioural thing can help, but if caused by withdrawal the brain has to rebalance it's self so it won't help at all. Several other have found the same. A therapist I saw was very dismissive of it, it's seems to be the cure all with the NHS but doesn't help symptoms caused by drug withdrawal at all.

[Guest [Fi...]]

Desperate for intrusive thoughts, OCD type symptoms to improve. Not reall true OCD more paranoia about certain things. No material what I try nothing helps, CBT useless, really frightened taking any supplements. Had nearly 18 months of this hell, the anti depressants made lot worse. Book I read said not true OCD is chemical reaction fro drugs so CBT won't help. The mental symptoms are much harder to fight than physical and literally feel have no control over my brain. As others have said this 2nd year feels much worst than the 1 st year.

 

I find I have To challenge this phenomenon.  If I do not work against it, my mind spirals.  We have to create the new pathways, it takes time and effort.

 

Easier said then done, I know I am living this nightmare too. 

[[le...]]

If you find anything helps let me know. Been doing CBT & exposure therapy for over year zero help. Did read somewhere you shouldn't try fight thoughts just accept they are withdrawal. Only been really bad last 5 months or so since took the SSRI's they were lethal. Just want to be able go out for a walk without feeling I'm torturing myself.

[Guest [ba...]]

<snip>

I feel kinda strange going to bat for CBT. On the whole, I think society would do a lot better if treatment was individualised to a greater degree. CBT seems designed as a replacement to individualised mental health care. It leaves me not really liking it on principle but recognising that there's some value in the treatment. I dare say that an intelligent reader could find a good standard up-to-date CBT course workbook type thing online and work through it independently and get something out of it. It only takes a couple of lightbulb moments... "I should do that more often, it does make me feel better" / "I should stop doing that at all because it doesn't help"... that sort of thing... and you're a winner.

 

Basically, my adopted 'feed the right wolf' mantra.  It's a pretty simple concept, but I first had to fight with my therapist for about six months.  It's amazing the detrimental mindsets that we carry around.

 

I explored this mind stuff back in my late 20's and developed some decent skills and understandings that helped me throughout life (including during my withdrawal).  I think it's a lot harder to 'get' this stuff when you're in the midst of desperation.  The withdrawal mind wants to question and invalidate anything/everything that is causing this distress.  And since it correlates the taper (or cessation) of the drug with the distress, it then relentlessly calls into question everything relating to the taper.

 

(it's sadly a bit like American politics in that respect)

 

I find the pivotal stage is when the realization occurs that we own a mind, but that the mind doesn't have to own us.  That's a tough concept to grasp, but when realized it sets us free from the loops and judgements.  It's suddenly much easier to see those thoughts for what they are and to dismiss them as appropriate. 

 

Difficult as it is, I regularly see people grow in a mindful manner during the course of their withdrawal, so I keep putting it out there as an opportunity.

[[le...]]

Wasn't sure what you you meant by "feed the right wolf" I'm in UK maybe that's why! Think I will go back to the psychotherapist once she's up and running. She did think being rejected by my mother for years could be related to things. The CBT approach definitely doesn't work if it's caused by withdrawal as many have said. But other therapy could hopefully help. I'm still in early stages of SSRI withdrawal so might take little while

[Guest [ba...]]

Feed the right wolf is an old native American tale.  I imagine similar tales exist in many cultures.  Google it.

[[le...]]

Looked it up, seems it's meaning is basically case of mind over matter? Sadly not that easy, you seemed to have recovered quicker than lot of us. Think it depends how severe the mental symptoms are. The theory makes sense, but being able to follow it through if you are plagued 24/7 is sometimes impossible.

[Guest [ba...]]

I don't see either as mind over matter.  I see both as attempts to get people to realize that they have and make choices.  Those choices have outcomes/consequences, and if you want certain outcomes, then you make the appropriate choices.

 

One choice I eventually made was to try to focus more on positives.  24/7 gets thrown around a lot, but it's almost never accurate.  Even I slept an hour or two after my c/t, and I slept a little better one night.  So my worse week probably averaged 22/7.  So that means I was doing OK (ish) for two hours a day.  So my therapist and I set out to build on the 2/7.

 

You mentioned that the tapestry/painting/knitting stuff was helping somewhat.  So those and similar creative activities sound like they might be good choices to help you build on your 'OK' (ish) time.

[[le...]]

You obviously didn't have as severe symptoms as me and others like Perth for instance. If we could completely control our minds and decide I'm only going to focus on the positive there would be no need for therapists. You were lucky you started to recover at 6 months others of us have suffered more long term damage from theses drugs. We obviously aren't going to agree, I don't have any OK time just bad and very bad. No point in getting in an argument but to suggest it is our choice to recover or not makes no sense. Why would there be a group for protracted recovery in that case. Sorry but you have made me very cross and obviously don't understand the position some of us are in.

[[di...]]

I don't think that's obvious at all, leann.

 

It might help to look at two distinct aspects of this process. There's severity of symptoms and how well you cope with said symptoms. During the taper, you have a degree of control on the severity of your symptoms by controlling the rate of the taper. I would argue that controlling your nutritional intake gives you a degree of control over the severity of symptoms too. Post withdrawal, you can't control the speed of the taper and I think most people know by this point what's good to consume and what's not good to consume and how to look after themselves best to control severity of symptoms. There's no room for improvement.

 

The only power you have post-withdrawal is how well you cope with the symptoms. It might feel very true to you that this is the worse you could possibly feel and nothing could help. I'm sorry that you feel that way because it's bound to be self-fulfilling prophecy. Nobody is trying to deny your experience. What's causing the difficulty here is your certainty that this can't be helpful to others. It's not justified. It's your opinion that it can't be helpful because it hasn't help you and you've read some opinions doubting the efficacy in benzo withdrawals. You're proved wrong because it does help some people somewhat and I am one of those people. It's not a cure but it helps. I also think people are too quick to dismiss things when perhaps they were just having a bad day or needed to let things sink in a bit. You can't drive yourself crazy repeating techniques that don't work but revisiting something you tried once months ago can be quite fruitful.

 

I genuinely hope things click for you. I genuinely believe the people who do best are the people who can muster the most optimism even when things are terrible. I think the only way to help someone who is desperate like this is to try to encourage optimism despite the difficulties. It might make some of the suggestions appear unrealistic or even absurd.

[[Sh...]]

Talk therapy (not CBT) helped me immensely with my loony OCD thoughts during my taper. It might help you, too. Yeah, therapists' offices are closed but they are holding telehealth sessions. Mine is. I bet if you phoned around you could find someone.

 

Just an idea.

 

Katz

 

How can therapy help this for people? I went to 3 different ones and it does absolutely nothing to stop the thoughts. It's a result of physical change in the brain from these terrible drugs. I don't get how people can walk out of a therapists office and feel better from this symptom. It doesn't just magically disappear after a 45min session of talk. I question whether people actually understand this symptom or whether their issues are just anxiety.

[[di...]]

You're on a hiding to nothing if you think you can stop the thoughts. The way that therapies can help if they don't stop the thoughts is to help the patient to cope with them better.