help!!!!!(newbie)

[[TP...]]

....also does anyone know of any psychiatrists in the dayton, ohio area that are compassionate and willing to do a slow taper?  Thanks alot guys, im getting more and more anxious the more I think about this huge change that is about to take place, especially if i have to go the inpatient route.

 

I'm putting feelers out to see if I can find someone for you. Not promising anything though.

 

Tony

 

Don't know the geography of Ohio, but do any of these help?:

 

Ohio:

 

Leopold, Ken MD - Brockett & Leopold

400 Matthew st #220,

Marietta,

OH 45750

740-374-4273

or

800 Pike St. #2,

Marietta,

OH 45750

740-373-3960

 

James Thomas, M.D.

Cincinnati Ohio

(513) 231-8000 Ext. 109

 

Dr. Damon Whitfield, Liberty Osteopathic Clinic,

Columbus, Ohio

(614) 792-2199

 

Dr. Daniel J. Weber, 820 Delta Avenue,

Cincinnati, Ohio 45226-1221

(513) 321-9902.

 

Nancy P. had this to say about Dr. Weber: "He seems to know a lot about all different benzos, how they react, etc. I don't believe he is an addiction specialist, and as many other psychiatrists, doesn't always agree with everything I tell him we talk about on this site. I can say my doctor listens well, he is gentle, kind, has never gotten angry with me all the years I refused to change drugs, he tells me what he thinks, but the decision is always mine. Now that I am withdrawing, although he suggested Klonopin a few years back, because it has a longer half-life than Xanax, and that is what is used in the US more than Valium, he was very interested in Prof. Ashton's Manual, and keeps a copy on his desk, and was extremely happy when I told him I wanted to switch to Valium. When I began the switchover, I was really afraid, especially when Prof. Ashton's manual didn't work out exactly like it was supposed to for me. He told me everyone was different. I drop 1 mg. Valium about every 2 weeks. He said that was a little slow, but he wanted me to be comfortable with the withdrawal.

 

During the switchover, and even now, he always reminds me that I can call him anytime if I am running into difficulty and I have talked to him several times during and after the immediate switchover. He always reminds me he is there for me. He doesn't charge me extra when I have to make a frightening call to him, (but I don't take advantage either). I am not the least bit afraid of him, because he lets me say what I want, tells me what he thinks, but lets me be in control of my withdrawal. I could not handle a doctor like a few I went to years ago, who would prescribe a lot of medicines and get "angry" with you when they made you sick or you chose not to take them. He let's me know his feelings when we talk, but always lets me make my own decisions."

 

[[da...]]

Hi Sean,

If you read my header you will see that I too was on 4mg of Xanax. At times I would increase my dosage to 6mg a day. I hit tolerance and it just stopped working and actually caused symptoms much more severe then my original disorder.

 

I was on 3mgs of Xanax for only a year when we decided to move. I tapered off in about a month rather easily. A couple months later I went into protracted withdrawal and ended up in the hospital ER thinking I was having a heart attack. They gave me some Xanax then referred me to a local psychiatrist who reinstated me back to 3mgs.  I tended to a family emergency once and didn't bring enough medication. I began to cold turkey and within a couple days felt like I was in a living hell. Words can’t explain how bad it was. If my wife did not next day air me my prescription there is a good chance it could have been fatal. You can not get off 4mgs of Xanax rapidly or you will suffer greatly.

 

Xanax is not a medication you can go to most detox centers for. From what I have heard most people who do have a week in hell. After the week they are so mentally and physically ill they usually go then to a psychiatric ward. Once out of there they are usually put back on benzos to try and do a slow taper which is usually very difficult because of the damage done in rehab.

 

I've found doing a slow direct taper off Xanax is not as difficult as most people assume. It sounds like you have not hit tolerance, which should make it even easier. You start buy cutting a small amount. Most people start by cutting about .25mg. You then wait a couple weeks or longer then cut again. The people who get in trouble are the ones who think they feel good enough to cut again after a short while then get hit by intense withdrawal effects. So if you taper slow and steady chances are you will have no or very few unpleasant side effects.

 

I had a problem finding a doctor. Most psychiatrists have no problem prescribing addictive medication but many want nothing to do with withdrawing from it. I have had doctors who took my $350 for the initial visit then told me they did not want me as a patient. I knew tapering was not rocket science. I knew what I needed to do to taper off this poison.  I had to play along to their game. When seeing a doctor for the first time I’m very polite, well dressed and groomed. I explain my situation and listen to what he or she has to say. Doctors have big egos. If you walk into his office and tell him what you want or just slap the Ashton manual on his desk don't expect him to say “ Oh OK”. He may suggest staying on the drug. Medication is a psychiatrist only tool, in that case just taper on your own. He may try a crossover to a longer acting drug like Klonopin.  Many people can get off Xanax much easier with these drugs that are similar to Xanax. He will have some plan. Try to make it conform to your own plan by telling him your concerns in a way he wants to hear. If he is open to hearing about the Ashton plan explain it is not a direct crossover to Valium but more a gradual reduction of Xanax with a gradual introduction of Valium. Then gradual reduction of valium. The most a US doctor can prescribe is 40mg of valium. 4mgs of Xanax is equal to 80mg of valium. Make sure he does not think you are suggesting a direct crossover to Valium. Most people here think the Ashton plan is the best way to taper. 

 

A psychiatrist would never suggest rehab for Xanax they know the damage it does. If you go to a doctor it is unethical and makes him liable if he does give you treatment for something as serious as Xanax withdrawal. Even when a doctor told me he did not want me as a patient he still refilled my prescription until I found a doctor. The jerk wrote the prescription for Xanax XR a very expensive form of Xanax. I'm sure he did that so I would expedite my search for a new doctor. Which I did. My taper with him is going very well.

 

There are one or two rehab centers in the USA that treats specifically Benzo addiction. You stay there between 6 to 12 months. Unless you are independently wealthy like for instance a celebrity most people could not afford such a place.

 

The hardest part of getting off Xanax is coming up with the plan that works best for you.

Good luck

Dave 

 

[[ru...]]

Good advice, Dave. Thanks for dropping in!!!

 

rufus

[[re...]]

Hey dave, i was just wondering what those 2 centers that specialize in benzo's in the United States you speak of are.  I cannot find them online.

[[bl...]]

Sean,

 

   Dear, foregt about those centers, Pleeeease!

[[si...]]

christine did you get called to dinner?

 

here i'll finish your sentence - sean dear - so glad you are here

[[TP...]]

Sean,

 

  Dear, forget about those centers, Pleeeease!

 

Really bro. There ain't no "center" that can help you. You need to find a GP to give you your benzos to tide you over, then change over to Klonpin or Valium and we can help to work out a taper plan. There is no easy way out, but we're here for you.  OK?

 

T

[[si...]]

sean if you get a pill splitter you can place the pill in the "V" shape - it will be easy to see the center - the blade comes down naturally in the center when the pill is placed snugly in the "V"

[[re...]]

UPDATE AS OF JANUARY 31, 2008:

 

Hello guys, I havent been around in a while after my first post.  I was busy running around to various outpatient clinics in my area, all of which were filled with idiots who didnt know a thing about benzo addiction ("you can quit them cold turkey right now, you just need to do group therapy"....yeah right.).  I finally got into a psychiatrist two days ago, who is willing to help me taper down from 4.5 MG's a day.  Thank god I found him just in time...as I only had 6 days of meds left.  I talked about the Ashton manual to him, and he was interested, looked up the site, bookmarked it and said he would read it before our next visit in 2 weeks.  His plan is to wean me down on Xanax until we get to about 2-3 Mgs (he said that would take 2 months or so) and then he wants to switch me over to Klonipin.  I said that prof. Ashton recommended valium, but he said that valium was a "dirty" benzo, and that it had many metabolites that were common in alot of the benzos(or something like that).  He put me on 4 mgs a day until i meet with him next, and I am doing fine so far.  He also put me on .1 mg's of clonidine to take right before bed time to help with insomnia and withdrawal symptoms at night. I think he wants to wean me off a little faster than i would prefer, but he also seems like the kinda guy who will let me dictate my own pace, atleast somewhat.  So what do you guys think about him wanting to switch over to klonopin  (also he mentioned possibly Librium instead), instead of valium??  He seemed to think that valium was very addictive, or something.  He acknowledged its long half life, but didnt want to use it.  I will get more info from him on this when i meet with him next.  So what do you guys think about the Clonidine and Klonopin plan??? thanks in advance.

[[ru...]]

Klonipin is a long lasting benzo like Valium and some switch over to it to taper down. I'm more familiar with Valium and that's what I was able to use but I think you'll be fine. And I like his idea of tapering you down on the Xanax and then switching over when you're lower.

 

Alas, I'm not familiar with Clonidine so someone else will have to weigh in here on that.

 

All in all, it sounds like you may have someone you can work with. At any rate you'll be able to get some more Xanax to work with your initial taper and that can't be bad, esp. since you were about to run out!

 

Sounds like you're on your way!!!

 

rufus

[[el...]]

Clonidine is an antihypertensive(blood pressure med) and also used for opiod and alcohol dependance, and smoking cessation. Also used for adhd!

It has a side effect of drowsiness and sedation, and will probably help calm you wd symptoms and help with sleep,  Do you also have high bp? Maybe he's trying to kill two birds with one stone. (I HATE that saying!)

 

I'm tapering off Klonopin. I  was on K to begin with, and asked the doc to switch me to Valium, but he said here in the states(meaning not GB) they taper benzos with klonopin, not valium. He basically said the same thing about all the metabolites that your doc did. K is not quite as long acting as valium or librium, still somewhat long.

my wd symptoms usually hit me at about 4 or 5 days, so that's pretty long.

I'm tapering by 1/8th of mg. I started at a little over 1mg. Have had relatively few problems.

It sounds like you got lucky in finding a good doc.

[[re...]]

Thanks for the info.  No, i do not have high blood pressure...well actually when going through withdrawals the panic attacks lead to a high BP, but notwhen I feel "normal".  The clonidine definitely helps me fall asleep.  The first night I took it about 30 minutes before I planned on getting into bed, thinking it wouldnt do much, but 15-20 minutes later I was very sleepy, and felt very weak, almost had a hard time going down the steps.  So now I take the drug after I am already in bed.  You say you are reducing by 1/8th mg of klonopin at a time...how often do you step down??  thats the only thing I am a little bit worried about is i think his tapering schedule he has in mind is probably a little to fast for me, but we will see. 

[[TP...]]

I hope I didn't make a mistake by changing over from Klonopin to Valium. I wish they'd get their stuff together! I mean, who are you supposed to believe?  I had heard that Klonopin is harder to come down off of, but I don't remember the argument in favor of that position. Bah! I mean, if I'd stayed on Klonopin and cut 1/8 per taper, I'd be long off it by now. Aaaargh!

 

I'll be curious what the doctor says after he/she has read the Ashton manual though. Will it change their mind? If I had the info from him/her that argues in favor of Klonopin I would forward it to Dr, Ashton for her comments. If anyone has that info, please send it to me via PM or paste it here so I can follow up. Thanks!

 

More info from Dr, Ashton (I just Googled it  ): http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashvtaper.htm

 

Tony

[[re...]]

thanks for the info guys, keep it up 

[[el...]]

already in bed.  You say you are reducing by 1/8th mg of klonopin at a time...how often do you step down?? 

 

The first  couple of cuts I did weekly. then the next few I did every two weeks. The last 3 have been every 3 weeks, lol!

I probaby could have done every 10 days thru-out without too much grief. 7 days might have been a little more uncomfortable, though if neccessary it would have been do-able. I mainly slowed it down the last few, because the cuts were triggering my restless legs syndrome.

Keep in mind that everyone is different. I sounds like your doc will let you slow down if you really need to, so try not to worry too much. 

[[bl...]]

Sean Dear, I am glad that you found a doctor who is willing to work with your taper.  The Doctor needs to understand one thing though.  You cannot go faster with your taper than your GABA can repair itself. So if you hit a patch in your taper and the withdrawal symptoms are unbearable, you will need to hold or slow down, OK?  This is not drug seeking on your part, nor is it any kind of weakness.  It is just physiology and body chemistry.  You do not want to take the chance of developing protracted withdrawal symptoms. The way to avoid this is to do a slow sensible taper. I think Klonopin is an ok choice. Not everyone can do a crossover to valium, and having been addicted to that particular poison, I can agree that it is indeed a dirty benzo.  When you do the crossover to klonopin, take it slowly as well. Don't rush anything.  This is your body and brain and we are going to get you out of this with the least amount of distress possible.  Thank God you found somone to help you.  And remember that we are always here for you too.

 

BlueMoth

[[Da...]]

Sean -

 

Just read your whole thread.  First of all, I am glad that you found a doctor.  The problem with tapering off of Klonopin is that the smallest available pill in the US is .5 I believe, which is rougly equivalent to 10 mg of valium.  It makes cutting more difficult the lower you go, but it's still certainly possible and like your doctor said, it's probably the most common tapering routine in the US.  Maybe you can soften him up once you get to the lower doses of Xanax but if not, rest assured that you can come down from the K.

 

It's a good sign that he agreed to look over the Ashton Manual. 

 

Best of luck to you -

 

Dan