Adult children of narcissists (ACON)

[[Br...]]

nomore, interesting thoughts.  Anyway, Mag started this post and it's had legs for about 2 months.  With all the new members, I'd bet my benzos that more survivors will eventually find their way over here.

[[ma...]]

so the time has come for me to move on to other issues that i need to deal with in my life, as i have gotten what i needed from this thread/support group. i will se some of yall around BB since we became good friends in pm andon other threads as well as this one.  cheers everybody!

 

nomore, thank you for your words, and please fell free to post here again if you need. I'm glad you are doing good progress

 

I'm not in non-contact with my mother, I'm in low-contact. For now it's enough for me. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out how things happened. As I make sense of my past, I get more dumbfounded than angry. It's amazing that mother managed to do all that without anyone realizing. Sometimes it seems very surreal and so it is important that we are objective and cling to the facts.

 

However, my most difficult fight is not with mother or with the memories of the past. Like you, the real fight is with myself. Decades of narcissistic abuse leave deep marks and many limitations. I have many questions, for example, in relation to the relationship with my daughters. Because, you see, my references are from an abuser. So, I feel as if I'm walking blindfolded, seeking an equilibrium between excessive demands and permissiveness, with a constant deep fear of becoming like mother.  And in this confusing path, one of the few rules I have is not to lie: I don't lie to my daughters and above all I don't lie to myself. This way I may make mistakes but I won't become an abusive mother like mine because all abuse is grounded on lies.

 

So, for me, the two go hand in hand: dealing with the past and dealing with myself.

[[no...]]

so the time has come for me to move on to other issues that i need to deal with in my life, as i have gotten what i needed from this thread/support group. i will se some of yall around BB since we became good friends in pm andon other threads as well as this one.  cheers everybody!

 

nomore, thank you for your words and please fell free to post here when you need. I'm glad you are doing good progress

[[ma...]]

I'd bet my benzos

 

[[ma...]]

Yeah.  I had the same reaction as you to that article magnesi.  Don't mean to offend you Lilyann.

 

In my lifelong experience, forgiveness can be a trap.  It enables them and seems to just makes the target a bigger target.  Then again, holding onto anger too long...they still own us.  It's a tricky business. 

 

But I think it all comes down to understanding what exactly is going on, and honoring the anger, which brings a sense of validation and empowerment, which helps lift the anger because it stops the cycle.  But anger is a necessary first step, methinks.  We, as people, have certain rights as to how we are treated.

 

 

Yes, completely agree. Understanding why we feel angry, accepting that we have the right to feel angry at certain things, this will eventually led to acceptance and peace. For me it happens cyclically. Lately I don't feel much anger. As I understand the past better, I get more surprised and sad than angry.

[[ma...]]

I think this article may be useful for some BBers. This focus is toxic mothers v narcissists, but it's likely that many people have not sorted through relationships to the point of having a firm definition and perhaps never will. The tips may help anyway.

 

https://tinybuddha.com/blog/simple-truths-about-toxic-mothers-i-wish-i-knew-growing-up/?fbclid=IwAR3addBYWRN4tALGoUS2hXk_O-nLePb8ceLjhzRxW3llS3Nmceh4Y6jhStg

 

Lilyann, I didn't like the article on narcissism but I just LOVED this video

on questioning the system you posted on your blog

[[Br...]]

Oops.........I edited my last post. I meant to say - hopefully more survivors will find their way over here.  Sorry for any confusion.

[[ma...]]

Oops.........I edited my last post. I meant to say - hopefully more survivors will find their way over here.  Sorry for any confusion.

 

Thank you Breck, it's much better to attract survivors than NPDs

[[We...]]

magnesi - loved that article...the average American experience.  Unfortunately.

 

For sure, the healing/awakening process from narc abuse is cyclical once the initial awakening happens.  Going in and out of various emotions.  Lately I'm a bit more at peace with it all, but then something else comes around asking for my attention and healing.  Just going with the flow and trusting the process.  Like benzo recovery too.

 

Generally feeling safer because I'm learning to trust my perceptions and feelings more, vs being caught up in the gaslighting of it all. 

 

I really appreciate you starting this thread magnesi and all the contributions of other posts.

 

Breck....LOL!!!

[[Br...]]

Oops.........I edited my last post. I meant to say - hopefully more survivors will find their way over here.  Sorry for any confusion.

 

Thank you Breck, it's much better to attract survivors than NPDs

 

I later re-read my post and the jaw hit the floor !  Apparently writing with a benzo brain is a real thing 

 

 

[[Ch...]]

so while reading the article, i pretended it was me finding letters never sent from my narcmom to me. yeah yeah i did it. lol so in that context, trying to put myself in the author's shoes, i was able to access the emotions. i felt what the author felt (wheter or not it was real or a fairytale is irrelevant.) so imagining the emotions, and allowing myself to feel them as she did, it was very velievable, because i was feelingmy own feelings of grief and also understanding and compassion. not forgiveness, i don't do forgiveness very well yet, but Acceptance. Acceptance is the level i'm at. i can accept what happened and not that it's ok or humky dory (i chave gone NO CONTACT after all ) but that i am finnally not in the bargaining/denial/anger phase anymore.

 

imagining the repressed feelings of love and thee feelings of shame and guilt my mother must have inside, feelings that she knows she is an inadequae mother and was a t times cruel. this i have compassion on. thtis i can relate to. i don't forgive it and it's all beter back to pretending we can have a relationship. but i can look at her with compassion, she is broken and she taught me a lot and i taught her a lot. when she dies i will be relieved but also feel the same grief as i would if she'd been a great mom. i am trying not to judge so harshly at my own mom in the knowing thati may not have been a great om if my baby had grown to term. i'm trying to be fair. i wouldn't have been abusive tho. but still, throw the first stone thing.

 

for myself, personally, it is liberating to leave the shit in the past instead of continuing to wrestle with it and carry it around with me daily...i have a lot of baggage in many areas and i don't want to keep carying that one anymore. so i leave it sitting by the roadside. maybe somebody else would like to throw it in their pickup and drive it around for awhile? it shaped me. it made me who i am today. it served its purpose. now i move on to deal with the next baggage weighing on me. which is currently, forgiving(not just accepting but actually forgiving) myself for the shit things i did to my most loved ones in my life. that's my current issue. i am done dealing with the issues of "mom n dad shit on me, weren't there for me, betrayed me, disbelieved me, i wish they hadn't, what can i do to get them back/make them change?  and etc." eventually we come to a point where we are able to let go, and move to the next thing, or we stay stuck forever. it has taken a lot of work to get to this point, but i'm moving forward, one piece of old baggage lighter.

 

hopefully this thread keeps going to suport thosewho are still in anguish over the past narcmoms and narcdads. there's sure a lot of us children of them here at BB's! this thread was helpful to me while i was trying to get the nerve up to go NO CONTACT withmy nmom and ndad and nbrother. this thread also gave me an opportunity to stand up to a predatory narcicisst publicly and test my wings at standing my ground, not backing down from a narc and to also, hopefully, be a useful example to others who are trying to see what it looks like to stand up to the bullies in their own lives. i'm so grateful to magnesi for starting this support group and to everyone here for trusting strangers, nough to help each other.

 

so the time has come for me to move on to other issues that i need to deal with in my life, as i have gotten what i needed from this thread/support group. i will se some of yall around BB since we became good friends in pm andon other threads as well as this one.  cheers everybody!

 

 

Comments like this are uncalled for and go against not only common civility but BB’s guidelines as well:

 

Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies. We do not tolerate attacks upon fellow members. Any account created for the purposes of causing arguments and/or ill-feeling, will be banned.

 

 

If this thread continues to cause the team to intervene it will be locked, so choose your words and treatment of one another more carefully if you wish this thread to continue.

 

Thanks you,

Challis

[[ma...]]

so while reading the article, i pretended it was me finding letters never sent from my narcmom to me. yeah yeah i did it. lol so in that context, trying to put myself in the author's shoes, i was able to access the emotions. i felt what the author felt (wheter or not it was real or a fairytale is irrelevant.) so imagining the emotions, and allowing myself to feel them as she did, it was very velievable, because i was feelingmy own feelings of grief and also understanding and compassion. not forgiveness, i don't do forgiveness very well yet, but Acceptance. Acceptance is the level i'm at. i can accept what happened and not that it's ok or humky dory (i chave gone NO CONTACT after all ) but that i am finnally not in the bargaining/denial/anger phase anymore.

 

imagining the repressed feelings of love and thee feelings of shame and guilt my mother must have inside, feelings that she knows she is an inadequae mother and was a t times cruel. this i have compassion on. thtis i can relate to. i don't forgive it and it's all beter back to pretending we can have a relationship. but i can look at her with compassion, she is broken and she taught me a lot and i taught her a lot. when she dies i will be relieved but also feel the same grief as i would if she'd been a great mom. i am trying not to judge so harshly at my own mom in the knowing thati may not have been a great om if my baby had grown to term. i'm trying to be fair. i wouldn't have been abusive tho. but still, throw the first stone thing.

 

for myself, personally, it is liberating to leave the shit in the past instead of continuing to wrestle with it and carry it around with me daily...i have a lot of baggage in many areas and i don't want to keep carying that one anymore. so i leave it sitting by the roadside. maybe somebody else would like to throw it in their pickup and drive it around for awhile? it shaped me. it made me who i am today. it served its purpose. now i move on to deal with the next baggage weighing on me. which is currently, forgiving(not just accepting but actually forgiving) myself for the shit things i did to my most loved ones in my life. that's my current issue. i am done dealing with the issues of "mom n dad shit on me, weren't there for me, betrayed me, disbelieved me, i wish they hadn't, what can i do to get them back/make them change?  and etc." eventually we come to a point where we are able to let go, and move to the next thing, or we stay stuck forever. it has taken a lot of work to get to this point, but i'm moving forward, one piece of old baggage lighter.

 

hopefully this thread keeps going to suport thosewho are still in anguish over the past narcmoms and narcdads. there's sure a lot of us children of them here at BB's! this thread was helpful to me while i was trying to get the nerve up to go NO CONTACT withmy nmom and ndad and nbrother. this thread also gave me an opportunity to stand up to a predatory narcicisst publicly and test my wings at standing my ground, not backing down from a narc and to also, hopefully, be a useful example to others who are trying to see what it looks like to stand up to the bullies in their own lives. i'm so grateful to magnesi for starting this support group and to everyone here for trusting strangers, nough to help each other.

 

so the time has come for me to move on to other issues that i need to deal with in my life, as i have gotten what i needed from this thread/support group. i will se some of yall around BB since we became good friends in pm andon other threads as well as this one.  cheers everybody!

 

 

Comments like this are uncalled for and go against not only common civility but BB’s guidelines as well:

 

Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies. We do not tolerate attacks upon fellow members. Any account created for the purposes of causing arguments and/or ill-feeling, will be banned.

 

 

If this thread continues to cause the team to intervene it will be locked, so choose your words and treatment of one another more carefully if you wish this thread to continue.

 

Thanks you,

Challis

 

Challis, are you referring to this paragraph of nomoredrugsforme's comment?

 

"... i am done dealing with the issues of "mom n dad shit on me, weren't there for me, betrayed me, disbelieved me, i wish they hadn't, what can i do to get them back/make them change?  and etc." eventually we come to a point where we are able to let go, and move to the next thing, or we stay stuck forever. it has taken a lot of work to get to this point, but i'm moving forward, one piece of old baggage lighter."

 

If so, I must tell you that I agree with your assessment. What she says is invalidating for those who are still trying to understand and process the abuse they were or are still being subjected to in their family. Good thing you said it, because I only realized it later and was wondering how to get back to it without creating excessive friction. What happens, and this may be hard to understand for those who have not gone through childhood abuse, is that I and probably others here do not have the same ability to detect abuse as a normal person. Our tolerance to abuse is abnormally high because that was our reality for so long. Therefore, we often do not have an instinctive reaction of rejection and only after thinking about it we realize that the limits have been crossed. We need to learn to set stronger boundaries, which is part of our healing and one of the things this thread could help with.

 

Therefore, it'd be excessive and unfair to close the thread, which was started by me and not by nomoredrugsforme. In fact, nomoredrugsforme herself said she would leave the thread. And the others had enough problems with abusers to be punished now because someone has disrespected us. It'd be unfair and it makes no sense.

[[mo...]]

If all of this is part of what it took for me to understand how lovely a person my mother truly is, then I’m grateful.

 

I’m grateful for who it is she is, for who I am, and for those who have helped care for me and kept me going on this website and never judged, abandoned, used,

neglected or gave up on me. I’m thankful for the lessons I needed to learn from the more difficult experiences with others I had, too.

 

And I truly hope that all here can find healing from trauma and any damage that happened from these drugs, any person or any other source or event. I genuinely hope that you all find all the compassion, acceptance, peace and love that you could ever desire.

 

I forgive any and all here who have any anger, resentment, fear, judgment or ill wishes toward me. May you be blessed and supported and find wholeness. I don’t wish you any ill. Let it be that you find joy and are filled with and grounded in love. May you have good and equal relationships where you feel respected and safe.

[[Ch...]]

Magnesi, it has only to do with treating others with respect. This is a support forum, not social media where one can say whatever one pleases without being held to account for their words.

 

Take care,

Challis

[[Br...]]

Magnesi, it has only to do with treating others with respect. This is a support forum, not social media where one can say whatever one pleases without being held to account for their words.

Take care,

Challis

 

Challis,

nomore wasn't attacking or being disrespectful to any BB member. She was simply commenting on an article which was linked, as well as her own experiences.

For those of us who have lived and understand this abusive personality disorder, which most likely is the root cause that led many of us into the benzo world.  This thread is supportive and this is now two of us going to bat for nomore (we understand her comment).

To truly understand.....one must know NPD and the damage which arises out of it.

It's understood the mods and admins are doing their best.   

Thank you for the input though.....

    Breck

             

[[ma...]]

this abusive personality disorder, which most likely is the root cause that led many of us into the benzo world.

 

So true, Breck! For me, dealing with the benzo, the anti-depressant, the narcissistic abuse I was subjected to and its effects on my personality and habits are all part of my healing. I hope to one day find balance and peace.

[[va...]]

Magnesi, it has only to do with treating others with respect. This is a support forum, not social media where one can say whatever one pleases without being held to account for their words.

Take care,

Challis

 

Challis,

nomore wasn't attacking or being disrespectful to any BB member. She was simply commenting on an article which was linked, as well as her own experiences.

For those of us who have lived and understand this abusive personality disorder, which most likely is the root cause that led many of us into the benzo world.  This thread is supportive and this is now two of us going to bat for nomore (we understand her comment).

To truly understand.....one must know NPD and the damage which arises out of it.

It's understood the mods and admins are doing their best.   

Thank you for the input though.....

    Breck

           

 

She was also labeling one of our buddies a "predatory narcissist" and it's getting old already. This obsession with her is not normal. I completely support what Challis says and I appreciate a moderator protecting members from being insulted constantly.

[[Wi...]]

Seconding what valiumnomore wrote.

[[ma...]]

I also didn't like her post, after reading it well.

 

Now I hope you don't mind I change the subject, but I've been thinking and worrying a lot about Christmas and I'm deeply in need of some advice.

 

This will be the first Christmas since I unveiled the dysfunctional dynamics of my family and I don't think I'll be available to participate in the same crazy games anymore. There is always drama and very little warmth:

• Nmother buys too much food and deserts, although every year we conclude that it makes no sense and tell her time and time again it is not necessary. She plays the victim the whole time, and looks like she just wants the gathering to end. After dinner she grudgingly sits with us in the living room and occasionally complains that it is late and she wants to go to bed.
   
  
• Golden child sister is often still taking a shower when we arrive for dinner and makes everyone wait for her as long as she likes. During dinner she engages in noisy discussions, exposing her elitist and racist views of the world. After dinner, she tries to impose an activity that allows her to show off.
   
  
• Youngest sister, who currently suffers from serious mental illness and is heavily medicated with antipsychotics, doesn't stay long because the noise and confusion bother her. When she appears at all, she just has dinner without talking much and retires as soon as she can.
   
  
• Brother bullyes whomever he feels like over dinner, running over the arguments with his loud voice. Mom makes him special dishes because he doesn't like almost anything. A few times he arrived very late, without a word of apology, and was angry that dinner had begun without him.
  

I don't feel like putting up with this again, now that I've finally realized that it is all about competition, envy and a total lack of care for others. The problem is my daughters, teenagers, who love Christmas, despite the craziness of our family. They are not mistreated although there are already some veiled criticisms, that they still don't understand well, especially to the younger who has a more out-of-box personality. If it wasn't for them, I could simulate a disease. But I don't want to ruin things for them, so I really have to think. Christmas here is a very strong tradition.

 

How are you going to do it? Do you spend Christmas / Thanksgiving with your nfamily? How do you deal with the drama?

[[be...]]

Seconding what valiumnomore wrote.

 

Ditto here. Challis99 only gets involved when absolutely necessary......

[[Wi...]]

 

The problem is my daughters, teenagers, who love Christmas, despite the craziness of our family. They are not mistreated although there are already some veiled criticisms, that they still don't understand well, especially to the younger who has a more out-of-box personality. If it wasn't for them, I could simulate a disease. But I don't want to ruin things for them, so I really have to think. Christmas here is a very strong tradition.

 

How are you going to do it? Do you spend Christmas / Thanksgiving with your nfamily? How do you deal with the drama?

 

bg - 

 

magnesi - I feel for you, regarding the Christmas issue, so I thought I'd weigh in, in case it might help a bit.

 

I've been 'low contact' with my family-of-origin ('no contact', really, except for occasional texting to them by my husband, to settle financial matters) for a while now -- after many tears and much inner work. Christmas had become a difficult time. It hurt, especially as Christmas Eve has always been a special time for me, my husband, and our own family.

 

Eventually, we just decided to do it our own way, as it became more important to protect what was meaningful to us, than to put up with dysfunction. We were dead straight with everyone, telling my parents, brother, etc. about our decision. (It didn't go down well, but I'd expected that.)

 

We slowly started creating our own traditions and rituals, away from my family-of-origin. We even got rid of most of the old decorations and made things that are uniquely meaningful to us. We experimented with our own recipes...really simplified, brought the magic back.

 

The first Christmas felt strained, strange, totally off. Ugh. It took a while, but our family now loves our peaceful celebration away from the empty pretense of my family-of-origin. I actually look forward to it, whereas I'd dreaded it in the past. It took time, but now I wish we'd done it earlier. It has become a time of beauty again, and I never thought that would happen.

 

I realise it might be difficult with teens, but they can surprise you sometimes, if you're open with them and include them in the planning. Perhaps a compromise, at first, where you stop by the family-of-origin for a very short get-together, then leave to do your own thing? As they get older, your kids might well prefer greater choice and meaningful new ways of doing things. Just my thoughts....

 

Wildflower

[[Br...]]

Now I hope you don't mind I change the subject, but I've been thinking and worrying a lot about Christmas and I'm deeply in need of some advice.

 

This will be the first Christmas since I unveiled the dysfunctional dynamics of my family and I don't think I'll be available to participate in the same crazy games anymore. There is always drama and very little warmth:

 

I don't feel like putting up with this again, now that I've finally realized that it is all about competition, envy and a total lack of care for others. The problem is my daughters, teenagers, who love Christmas, despite the craziness of our family........If it wasn't for them, I could simulate a disease..........so I really have to think. Christmas here is a very strong tradition.

 

How are you going to do it? Do you spend Christmas / Thanksgiving with your nfamily? How do you deal with the drama?

 

Mine lives for "drama"...... clowns juggling, flying monkeys, checkered flags waving, etc.....It really gets old.  That simulation of major disease isn't a bad idea !

 

A year ago I had a similar family event (narc fest).  Mine was a plotting/vindictive type which “stirs the pot”.  The ultimate goal was to exit the event with my head held high.

 

1) Remembered the past patterns..... expect the unexpected.

2) Have witnesses (friends or family members) around – always.

3) Calm.........wasn't “reactive”  Every time someone came my way – I took deep breaths and prepared to be calm and polite.

 

Grey rock and limited contact is a part of the above.

In short – my solution was to not be a part of the drama. The only thing I had control over......was me.

 

My two cents.........

 

 

[[Bl...]]

If all of this is part of what it took for me to understand how lovely a person my mother truly is, then I’m grateful.

 

I would guess you have always felt this way about your mother mon pilote.

 

All relationships are complex….and not always easy to figure out.

 

No one is perfect…including our parents. And being forgiving can only help to heal any wounds from family, friends, etc.

 

Granted, easier said than done.

 

But it is the best way to live(again, I would be lying if I said it’s easy).

 

It’s apparent you are working in that direction on a large scale based on the tone of your entire post that I intentionally left out the bulk of.

 

It takes humility to go public on this, such as you have. You’re a caring and brave person.

[[su...]]

I am unfortunately part of this club.

 

I could write a ton but I was the scapegoat child of narcissistic  abuse. My Mom psychically abused me as a child, emotionally abused and manipulated me and at one point sexually assaulted me. Her whole family turned against me and bullied me shunned me my whole life. My grandmother made it like I should care about my family the most so even though they all treated me this way all I did was care about them. My father also singled me out and verbally and emotionally abused me my whole life. Several of my siblings who again I was told to take care of as a child often harassed me and called me crazy and put me down my whole life. None of them stopped others in the family from bullying me.

My Mom never allowed me to talk as a kid. She was jealous of friends I made and would tell me they don't like me. I was so shy most of my life even as an adult I could barely talk or look people in the eye. I was taught to please everyone before myself.

This pattern of bullying started to repeat in school and places of work. People figured out they could pick on me and single me out and I would just take it.

Eventually I had several breakdowns. The last of which landed me on benzos. I've often read the scapegoat has a psychotic break. Now I'm the one labeled as mental ill though and on anti psychotics and the one with the problems. Nobody still wants to admit to any of the abuse I lived though. When I talk about it to my brother he calls me a negative person. I've really had it. I'm now figuring out what happened to me in w/d. As now I'm the one having to do therapy and my life in ruins. I don't even have myself left because benzos took that away.

 

It's kind of hard on here everyone using "mental illness" to put people down as if they are the problem. I guess the label mental illness encompasses a large variety of people. My therapist agrees that most people labeled mentally ill are so due to abuse. I was actually a pretty level headed loving person my whole life in spite of everything I was living through. I can't help it was too much to take and I had a breakdown. Now benzos seemed to have taken all that was left of me. I used to at least have myself my books, my love of art and nice things but all of that seems so alien. All of the medication I was put on put 40 pounds on me so I don't have my body anymore. I don't fit in any of the clothes I love which I kinda used to wear as fashion like armor to make me feel good and safe.

 

I'm just having a really hard time with all of this. My life is a total failure. I have almost nothing left. I wish I at least had family but they all were taught to treat me bad and lock me out of their lives after my life even though since I was like 5 years old was told it was my job to care for them.

Its sad that I have all this family but they always decided due to my parents to treat me bad too. I watch these shows of adopted people and wish i had loving family out there to take me in. I'm 41 now and I have no family of my own, no real friends and mostly I can't think anymore. The benzos have left me depressed and angry. I was never an angry person before. Now with my brain like this I totally do feel menatlly ill.

 

This situation I'm in now is a direct result of narcissistic abuse. I now see normal young girls out with their mothers who actually love them and don't want to destroy them and I'm just like why? Why did this happen to me and to my life?

I couldn't imagine what it would be like to grow up with a loving mother who wasn't physically attacking me and trying to destroy me and bring me down any chance she got.

 

I feel like this is where she wanted me to end up in life and the names my father called me and the way he treated me I wonder if he wanted this for me too.

 

I'm honestly surprised there is a whole group of us on here who have dealt with this. I know all about the drama and the flying monkeys. My heart goes out to all of you. Sorry if this post sounds a little whiney. I'm just feeling all of this strong and having a hard time. I haven't read this whole thread. I started to and have been hesitant to post but honestly with my ruminating thoughts and feeling suicidal over this stuff(not acting on it) I thought I would post something.

 

The holidays are really hard. Perhaps I will post more on that but curious to now read more about what others have posted.

 

[[va...]]

Sunlit my heart is breaking for you. There are similarities in our lives though perhaps you had it even worse. Don't worry, you're not the only one who wasn't loved by either of their parents. I find youtube videos very helpful. Kris godinez is good. This was never our fault and we were always enough.