Adult children of narcissists (ACON)

[[no...]]

Welchie and Breck,

boy oh boy did yall say a lot of things that i was nodding and bobbing to! i'll come back to post more, just wanted to note it real quick so i don't forget later. go t a billion errands it's saturday...be back later. that was so engaging...love yall!

[[We...]]

Hey nomore!!!

 

Maybe they should categorize them as cluster F's 

[[no...]]

Hey nomore!!!

 

Maybe they should categorize them as cluster F's  

 

THIS just made my whole day!!!

[[Br...]]

Hey nomore!!!

 

Maybe they should categorize them as cluster F's 

 

  Funniest thing I've heard in a looooong time.

[[de...]]

And sometimes the narcissist can be your therapist. 

 

I was seeing Jungian psychotherapist for some time.  He positioned himself next to me on the 'couch'.  I was laying down.  He got an erection and asked me if I could "feel it".  I froze like a glacier of ice and could not speak.  He was aware of (my) previous sexual abuse. 

 

When he realised I was not wanting to participate he had the filth audacity to tell me I was "noble".

 

If I had engaged would I have been ignoble?

 

One of the biggest narcs I have met in my life.  There's a lot of them out there. 

 

Dee

 

 

 

[[no...]]

And sometimes the narcissist can be your therapist. 

 

I was seeing Jungian psychotherapist for some time.  He positioned himself next to me on the 'couch'.  I was laying down.  He got an erection and asked me if I could "feel it".  I froze like a glacier of ice and could not speak.  He was aware of (my) previous sexual abuse. 

 

When he realised I was not wanting to participate he had the filth audacity to tell me I was "noble".

 

If I had engaged would I have been ignoble?

 

One of the biggest narcs I have met in my life.  There's a lot of them out there. 

 

Dee

 

what a little prick. pun intended. seriously, to have that much predatory arrogance, he must have been working with some significant deficiencies, and i don't mean just mentally/emotionally. urgh...makes me angry just thinking of it.  god i'm glad you were stronger than him. thanks for sharing your experience.

[[de...]]

Thanks nomoredrugsfor me. 

 

He has a reputation as being a great Jungian psychotherapist and it screwed me up for a long time. 

 

For a very long time I would phone him drunk to tell him what a "little prick" (your pun is accurate) I saw him to be.  He acknowledged nothing.  Just said that one of his kids had heard my phone call.  I didn't know a child was present. 

 

I told him the only thing I regretted about my phone call/s were that they were heard by a child.  NOTHING else.  A swine. 

 

Strange to have knowledge of a person whom all others believe to be the masterful Jungian guru.  His presentation to the world the complete opposite to how he presented himself to me. 

 

I looked at his Facebook page the other day and the pictures he had of himself were dripping with vanity.  It made me sick. 

 

Dee

 

 

[[We...]]

Yeah, it seems to be a consistent theme - boundary violations.  Big time.  That's become my number one 'alarm bell' tip off.  Oftentimes it's a lot less blatant than what you went through Dee.  But I've found my gut feelings never lie.

 

And that carefully crafted public image.  And done from positions of 'power', like parents, therapists, counselors, priests, pastors, bosses, teachers etc etc.  Politicians...but that's a no brainer.

 

Can't believe this dude is still out there.  Can't imagine how many others he has harmed.

 

Then...once they have totally violated you, you who are the true victim who tries to speak your truth, you can be violated again by not being believed, or by being blamed as the perpetrator, or being called crazy.  There's so many layers to the abuse it boggles the mind. 

 

This benzo trip, for me, has been all about taking my power back from this type of abusive scum.  For me, at this point, all that matters is that I know.  I see.  I understand exactly what's going on. 

 

I tried to articulate earlier on this thread something hard to explain.  But I'm sure narc survivor's understand deeply.  Not only do they try to isolate you from the support of others (example...an abusive spouse who divides you from friends and family) but they do a pretty good job of separating you from your own perceptions and feelings.  Guess that's called gaslighting.  They bring you to that point where you're so turned around you don't even believe your own perceptions and feelings, or feel you can rely on them.  Or hammer away at your self worth making you think you really do deserve the abuse and leave you in a puddle of self loathing.

 

aargh...feel like I'm rambling again.  But oh...that feeling of being so totally violated and having no voice.....

 

Forgot to add the obvious to that list...doctors.  How many people on this forum are suffering and frustrated not being believed the harm that has been done to us from their benzo prescriptions....must be something wrong with YOU.  Not the benzos.  Not me the doctor.  Totally discrediting our very painful day to day reality.  Yes, there are good doctors out there, not all doctors are like this....have to add that caveat. 

 

But WE know.  WE get it.  And we've found validation of the benzo experience here.  We have believing eyes here. 

 

 

[[Br...]]

In reading the below comments someone mentioned a common "tell" for them was boundary violations and I get that.  For me the one common theme I've come across is the lack of empathy.  Over time I've learned that even the traits of an NPD comes on a spectrum and some traits stand out more than others.

 

Regarding Dee's encounter ...... Much earlier this year I was seeking a therapist who dealt with NPD abuse. My "normal" therapist suggested one she trusted but also said......"there's a couple in this town to stay away from".  Gee.....I've already got trust issues and hear that       

[[Ba...]]

hmm.. my mom was the narc and abuser.

My Dad was wonderful supportive and loving.

So why was I always fearful of a relationship with a guy (me being a gal)?  Was always terrified to commit.

 

 

[[ma...]]

And sometimes the narcissist can be your therapist. 

 

I was seeing Jungian psychotherapist for some time.  He positioned himself next to me on the 'couch'.  I was laying down.  He got an erection and asked me if I could "feel it".  I froze like a glacier of ice and could not speak.  He was aware of (my) previous sexual abuse. 

 

When he realised I was not wanting to participate he had the filth audacity to tell me I was "noble".

 

If I had engaged would I have been ignoble?

 

One of the biggest narcs I have met in my life.  There's a lot of them out there. 

 

Dee

 

Oh my goodness Dee, I've had bad experiences in therapy, but yours surpasses everything! What a freak!

[[Be...]]

Dee, too bad you didn't get that on camera.  That would have been the end of him for sure. 

[[ma...]]

At least you're aware now magnesi.  Knowledge is definitely power.

 

Trying to change any of it...might as well find yourself a large brick wall and set about bashing your head against it.  But we can definitely change ourselves, extricate ourselves and take our power back.  It would be nice to get validation from other family members but guess they have to come to their own awakening.  It sort of reminds me of this benzo trip.  Very lonely.  But ultimately makes us wise and strong.

 

What freaks me out the most...they seem to enjoy inflicting pain, like you said, which is a freaky thing for a parent to do to their own child in particular.  It's a freaky thing anyway!!!  For anyone to do.

 

My heart goes out to your sister.  She seems to have taken the brunt of it.

 

Thank you Welchie I've given up on trying to get their validation or else anything positive. My youngest sister mental illness made me see how selfish, mean and weak they really are. When the abuse was directed to me only, I wouldn't see it as abuse because that was the dynamics I was raised in, and so deep down I would blame myself for all that was wrong between us. But seeing how they handled my sister's illness, things slowly began to make a very different sense. Now I just want to get far away from them all. Lucky me, mother is giving me the silent treatment since I began trying to discuss my sister's illness many months ago, which helps, and I don't have true relationships with any of my siblings.

 

I wholeheartedly agree this is part of our healing, how could it not be? It's all the same problem, we need to become able to deal with people without the fake help of psychiatric meds, understand what really happens, reject projected feelings of guilt, and as you say take our power back from abusive scum. 

 

It's also the most important to me now. I feel pretty bad because I'm reducing the antidepressant, which doesn't help. Benzo WD for me was mostly physical, with a lot of pain, but now I'm depressed, I don't feel like getting up in the morning and spend the days with a horrible feeling of deep fear in my belly. What I found helps me understand things and feel grounded in reality is writing, because all this narcissist stuff sometimes seems surrealistic, and I try to be as objective as possible. It's not easy though. Trying to remember past events and thinking about them in the light of what I know now leaves me exhausted and depressed, I have never experienced anything like this. Sometimes I can't even answer the posts here

[[ma...]]

FLYING MONKEYS

 

Very interesting explanation of what a flying monkey is and does: https://vocal.media/humans/flying-monkeys-are-predators-in-waiting Some excerpts:

 

There is never a reason to state you position to any person. If you feel the need to justify, explain, validate yourself to another person, they could be a flying monkey. A decent human being comes from a position of compassion in all interactions and recognizes that your situation is a difficult and painful one and in no way attempts to present the agenda of the opposing party or cause you further trauma.

 

Normal people use empathy and logic in their dealings. Flying monkeys are fueled by their need to be involved, feel important and to gain attention. When flying monkeys exist in a group, they backstab one another and put one another down in attempt to be valued as most favorable to the abuser. These people are so starved for attention that like the main abuser, they seek it any place they can find it, no matter how damaging it is to others.

 

Flying monkeys are not integrated people. Like the perpetrator, they are lacking in empathy and have something to hide. By focusing on someone else's problems they are distracted from their own. Misery loves company. Sometimes they hold onto the delusions of the abuser and believe they are doing something heroic or good by siding with the abuser. The flying monkey will not listen to the point of view of the target and they will NOT look at both sides. They are set on siding with the abuser because it fulfills their own needs. They will disregard logic, evidence or any information that stands in their way of acting for the abuser. The abuser gives them praise or recognition for doing his dirty work and they thrive on this. If the abuser is able to organize a group of flying monkeys they will compete with one another for the praise of the abuser. The flying monkey is not decent as otherwise they would do decent things to gain favor, in their own lives, instead of bullying others.

[[no...]]

FLYING MONKEYS

 

Very interesting explanation of what a flying monkey is and does: https://vocal.media/humans/flying-monkeys-are-predators-in-waiting Some excerpts:

 

There is never a reason to state you position to any person. If you feel the need to justify, explain, validate yourself to another person, they could be a flying monkey. A decent human being comes from a position of compassion in all interactions and recognizes that your situation is a difficult and painful one and in no way attempts to present the agenda of the opposing party or cause you further trauma.

 

Normal people use empathy and logic in their dealings. Flying monkeys are fueled by their need to be involved, feel important and to gain attention. When flying monkeys exist in a group, they backstab one another and put one another down in attempt to be valued as most favorable to the abuser. These people are so starved for attention that like the main abuser, they seek it any place they can find it, no matter how damaging it is to others.

 

Flying monkeys are not integrated people. Like the perpetrator, they are lacking in empathy and have something to hide. By focusing on someone else's problems they are distracted from their own. Misery loves company. Sometimes they hold onto the delusions of the abuser and believe they are doing something heroic or good by siding with the abuser. The flying monkey will not listen to the point of view of the target and they will NOT look at both sides. They are set on siding with the abuser because it fulfills their own needs. They will disregard logic, evidence or any information that stands in their way of acting for the abuser. The abuser gives them praise or recognition for doing his dirty work and they thrive on this. If the abuser is able to organize a group of flying monkeys they will compete with one another for the praise of the abuser. The flying monkey is not decent as otherwise they would do decent things to gain favor, in their own lives, instead of bullying others.

 

red part bolded by me because it just sang to me. the whole thing is really good tho. thanks Magnesi for finding and sharing this!

 

you know i was thinking as i read this of a particular group of flying monkeys and also my pop, who is narcmom's flying monkey. they both know what his best friend did to me at 9 years old and later again at 12 or 13 years old. but pop sides with narcmom's denial of the fact that it happened and will do so til he dies. he has no integrity of his own to do the right thing and so he lives off of narcmom's power. pretty sick dynamics, but when you understand the workings of their minds as described so well in Magnesi's post above, then their behavior makes sense.

 

[[ma...]]

you know i was thinking as i read this of a particular group of flying monkeys and also my pop, who is narcmom's flying monkey. they both know what his best friend did to me at 9 years old and later again at 12 or 13 years old. but pop sides with narcmom's denial of the fact that it happened and will do so til he dies. he has no integrity of his own to do the right thing and so he lives off of narcmom's power. pretty sick dynamics, but when you understand the workings of their minds as described so well in Magnesi's post above, then their behavior makes sense.

 

How can they live like that?! Can you imagine, nomeredrugs, having to be that kind of person, denying reality, refusing to protect your own daughter? Being abused and scapegoated is horrible and many years after we are still struggling with it, but I think, of all the alternatives, I still prefer to be in our shoes than to be someone like that. We suffer but at least don't have to live with such a sick mind.

[[no...]]

you know i was thinking as i read this of a particular group of flying monkeys and also my pop, who is narcmom's flying monkey. they both know what his best friend did to me at 9 years old and later again at 12 or 13 years old. but pop sides with narcmom's denial of the fact that it happened and will do so til he dies. he has no integrity of his own to do the right thing and so he lives off of narcmom's power. pretty sick dynamics, but when you understand the workings of their minds as described so well in Magnesi's post above, then their behavior makes sense.

 

How can they live like that?! Can you imagine, nomeredrugs, having to be that kind of person, denying reality, refusing to protect your own daughter? Being abused and scapegoated is horrible and many years after we are still struggling with it, but I think, of all the alternatives, I still prefer to be in our shoes than to be someone like that. We suffer but at least don't have to live with such a sick mind.

 

agreed, Magnesi.

 

that's why i had to cut them loose, all of them and the family members who side with them by blaming the victim/slut shaming/carzy shaming etc. just had to finally go NO CONTACT to protect myself from further harm.

 

but it wasn/isn't easy. i stillhave the fatasy that mayb my daddy will change his mind and go against narcmom and tell me he's sorry and he believes me and he wants to be my daddy more than what he is and has been since he married narcmom...fantasies. just fantasies that will never come true.

 

but it has a very simple and heartwrenching explanation. they were harmed even worse than they harmed us. the cycle of abuse goes back so many generations i lost the trail.

[[ma...]]

"People with PTSD probably the best people to have around you in an emergency. They have already planned for the worst to happen, and usually remain very calm under the most stressful experience. Most people would freak out, freeze... but people with ©PTSD have already dealt with trauma and tend to remain calm and focused."

 

What do you think? Could this be one of our few benefits?

 

It could be true in my case. For example, recently, during my youngest sister psychotic break, even Nmom asked me how could I be so calm. And I've noticed the same happened to me in other emergencies. I stay very calm and able to do whatever is needed in the moment (as long as it doesn't include cows which fortunately don't walk around in cities here ). In fact I think I stay calmer during emergencies than in many other situations, as the above post says, but I never thought it could be to something PTSD. Does this happen also to any of you?

[[no...]]

"People with PTSD probably the best people to have around you in an emergency. They have already planned for the worst to happen, and usually remain very calm under the most stressful experience. Most people would freak out, freeze... but people with ©PTSD have already dealt with trauma and tend to remain calm and focused."

 

What do you think? Could this be one of our few benefits?

 

It could be true in my case. For example, recently, during my youngest sister psychotic break, even Nmom asked me how could I be so calm. And I've noticed the same happened to me in other emergencies. I stay very calm and able to do whatever is needed in the moment (as long as it doesn't include cows which fortunately don't walk around in cities here ). In fact I think I stay calmer during emergencies than in many other situations, as the above post says, but I never thought it could be to something PTSD. Does this happen also to any of you?

 

thanks Magnesi, this was profound... i followed the link you provided and found the rest of the post ..it explained what happenes to me when i am hypervigilant all the time for no apparent reason and why i overreact when nothing bad is happening...lol my Hubbs is gonna love this when he gets home and i read it to him!

 

after i read that on the link you posted, i read this list of terms  extremely helpful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms

 

i love the idea of using the names of the roles these people played instead or the name of their familiar role ie

Edad/Emom - Enabler dad/enabler mom

Egg Donor - Alternate name for abusive/narcissistic mother

DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Common tactics used by abusers.

etc

 

this helps us reframe the people and their tactics in accurate and less sentimental/guilt ridden ways.

 

the whole list:

Acronyms and RBN Terminology

A

ACoN - Adult Child of Narcissist(s)

 

B

BIL - Brother-In-Law

 

BD - Bipolar Disorder

 

BPD - Borderline Personality Disorder

 

D

DAE - Does/Did Anyone Else

 

DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Common tactics used by abusers. More info here and here.

 

DoNF - Daughter of Narcissistic Father

 

DoNM - Daughter of Narcissistic Mother

 

E

Edad/Emom - Enabler dad/enabler mom

 

Egg Donor - Alternate name for abusive/narcissistic mother

 

Extinction burst - Activity, usually frantic, before someone gives up on an unrewarded behavior.

 

F

FLEAS - Frightening Lasting Effects of Abuse. What are FLEAS?

 

FM - Flying Monkey - This is a term that most likely was inspired by "This Wizard of Oz" (as in, the Wicked Witch's Flying Monkeys). When we talk about them in the sub, we are discussing people, family, friends, etc. that are working on behalf of our abusers in order to get information (to pass on to our abusers), guilt us into continuing/resuming contact, justifying our abusers' actions, etc.

 

FOC - Family of Choice

 

FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt. Common feelings experienced by people in a relationship with someone who suffers from a personality disorder. More info here.

 

FOO - Family of Origin

 

G

Gaslighting - Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity. More info here.

 

GC - Golden Child

 

Ghosting - Gradually going from LC to NC without making a "formal announcement" to our abusers.

 

Grey Rocking/Grey Rock Technique - "Do not respond with any emotion when they try and provoke you... In order to go Gray Rock, when you must engage with the Narcissist, only talk about boring things: your laundry, getting your oil changed, doing your taxes. Do not talk about anything that will make them jealous or in any way encourages them to cause drama." This method may be useful when cutting off or reducing contact to an abuser is not possible. Read more about this technique here: http://www.lovefraud.com/2012/02/10/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/

 

J

J.A.D.E. - Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. To avoid circular conversations, don't JADE. (source: Out of the Fog)

 

L

LC - Low Contact. Technique that reduces contact to the abuser in terms of intensity or frequency.

 

N

N or Narc - Narcissist/Narcissistic

 

NC - No Contact

 

NMiL/NFiL - Narcissistic mother-in-law/father-in-law

 

NMom/NDad - Narcissistic mother/father

 

Nsupply - The energy or emotional hit that a Narcissist gets from creating an emotional response in their victims

 

S

SC - Structured Contact. Technique that permits contact with the abuser within defined boundaries and rules. This may be a useful alternative when LC or NC are not possible or not desirable.

 

SG - Scapegoat

 

SIL - Sister-In-Law

 

SoNM - Son of Narcissistic Mother

 

SoNF - Son of Narcissistic Father

 

Sperm Donor - Alternate name for abusive/narcissistic father

 

T

TW - Trigger Warning

 

V

VLC - Very low contact. Like LC, this technique reduces contact with an abuser down to the bare minimum.

 

W

WOES - Walking on eggshells. Having to be overly careful or quiet (literally or figuratively) so as not to upset or enrage an abuser.

[[Li...]]

I think this article may be useful for some BBers. This focus is toxic mothers v narcissists, but it's likely that many people have not sorted through relationships to the point of having a firm definition and perhaps never will. The tips may help anyway.

 

https://tinybuddha.com/blog/simple-truths-about-toxic-mothers-i-wish-i-knew-growing-up/?fbclid=IwAR3addBYWRN4tALGoUS2hXk_O-nLePb8ceLjhzRxW3llS3Nmceh4Y6jhStg

[[no...]]

https://tinybuddha.com/blog/simple-truths-about-toxic-mothers-i-wish-i-knew-growing-up/?fbclid=IwAR3addBYWRN4tALGoUS2hXk_O-nLePb8ceLjhzRxW3llS3Nmceh4Y6jhStg

 

wow Lilyann thanks for this, that was profound!

[[ma...]]

I think this article may be useful for some BBers. This focus is toxic mothers v narcissists, but it's likely that many people have not sorted through relationships to the point of having a firm definition and perhaps never will. The tips may help anyway.
 
https://tinybuddha.com/blog/simple-truths-about-toxic-mothers-i-wish-i-knew-growing-up/?fbclid=IwAR3addBYWRN4tALGoUS2hXk_O-nLePb8ceLjhzRxW3llS3Nmceh4Y6jhStg

 
Thank you Lilyann. However, this article is confusing. The mom it talks about mistreated, invalidated, gaslighted, criticized, confused, attacked and smeared her daughter ever since the daughter can remember. This mom lied, undermined her daughter self-esteem and sense of security and made her feel lonely throughout her childhood and young adulthood.
 
The daughter describes all this objectively and with specific examples. Here are some excerpts of the article:

• The worst memory of my childhood and young adulthood was feeling lonely.
  
• For decades I felt confused when Mom told me I was the one with a problem. According to her, I couldn’t do anything right, not even remember things the way they really happened. She told me I had a “lively imagination” or even called me a “little liar” because what I remembered had never taken place.
  
• Do you desperately want to be loved and cherished by your mom? Do you long for her approval, like I did? Do you try your hardest, but no matter what you do, it’s never good enough?
  
• Don’t start immediately sharing your deepest secrets and feelings with her, because they will almost certainly be turned against you a few hours later. Enjoy the moment, but stay on guard.
  
• I tried to reason with Mom and explain to her what her behavior was doing to me. But every time, she would feel wronged, react angrily, and start a fight.
  

Afterwards the mother dies and the daughter finds some letters the mother never sent that “were imbued with love [of the daughter]” and “full of compassion [the daughter] didn’t realize Mom possessed”.

 

So, this horrible mom, who abused her daughter in every way she could, was secretly a loving and compassionate mother?! This makes no sense at all.

 

The daughter is in denial. The significance of those letters is clearly being blown out of proportion and they are also most likely being misinterpreted.

 

Note that the daughter described the abuse she suffered as a child clear and objectively. However, the letters, which supposedly changed her perception of these decades of abuse, deserve only a vague and metaphorical line: she says they were "like a forest glade with sunshine on a hot summer day ". Which says absolutely nothing.

 

The letters could in the end simply be a literary attempt by her mother.

 

We are also told that the mother “eventually, (…) change her behavior, but not until much later and at the most unexpected time ever”. Unfortunately, again, no details are given on the reasons or ways by which her mother changed her behavior. It’s clear that the mother didn’t apologize or even acknowledged her abusive behavior, otherwise the daughter wouldn’t have been so surprised when she found the letters.

 

The truth is that the daughter, desperate to finally have a loving mother, most likely found in these letters a pretext that allowed her to recreate her mother after death.

 

This is all very dangerous to victims of narcissistic abuse. Narcissistic abuse strives to affect our sense of reality and, so, our best defense is to stay firmly grounded on facts. We should look to actions and not words. Lying to ourselves, as the author of this article does, is the worst possible alternative. It’s what narcissists do, and it’s how the abuse gets passed to the next generation.

 

Also, I don’t agree that the focus of this article is toxic mothers v narcissists. Indeed, narcissism is one of the ways mothers can be toxic.

 

Finally, I think that we can’t simplistically evaluate the past at the light of our present knowledge and culture. But, as far as I know, past culture in our societies didn’t involve lying, gaslighting, smearing, etc. Especially your own children. And the fact that our abuser was abused is no excuse to her abusive behavior. It may be an explanation, but never an excuse. Not everyone who was subjected to abuse becomes abusive, it’s always a personal choice.

[[We...]]

Yeah.  I had the same reaction as you to that article magnesi.  Don't mean to offend you Lilyann.

 

In my lifelong experience, forgiveness can be a trap.  It enables them and seems to just makes the target a bigger target.  Then again, holding onto anger too long...they still own us.  It's a tricky business. 

 

But I think it all comes down to understanding what exactly is going on, and honoring the anger, which brings a sense of validation and empowerment, which helps lift the anger because it stops the cycle.  But anger is a necessary first step, methinks.  We, as people, have certain rights as to how we are treated.

 

It's harder to own our truth when the whole world seems to be judging us as being wrong for going no contact or minimal contact.  Or minimize our experience.  And parents don't get a free pass because they are our parents.  As a matter of fact, they consider it their ace in the whole to keep us on their 'hook'.

[[Br...]]

I looked up the author, Irina Bengtson, PhD.  Says she's a clinical psychologist with a narcissistic mother.  That stuff about a toxic mother having compassion, love and all that was definitely odd.  As Mag said, it is possible Bangston is living with some kind of denial, maybe the therapist has her own issues or perhaps we're missing a piece of her puzzle.  Tough to know.......

[[no...]]

so while reading the article, i pretended it was me finding letters never sent from my narcmom to me. yeah yeah i did it. lol so in that context, trying to put myself in the author's shoes, i was able to access the emotions. i felt what the author felt (wheter or not it was real or a fairytale is irrelevant.) so imagining the emotions, and allowing myself to feel them as she did, it was very velievable, because i was feelingmy own feelings of grief and also understanding and compassion. not forgiveness, i don't do forgiveness very well yet, but Acceptance. Acceptance is the level i'm at. i can accept what happened and not that it's ok or humky dory (i chave gone NO CONTACT after all ) but that i am finnally not in the bargaining/denial/anger phase anymore.

 

imagining the repressed feelings of love and thee feelings of shame and guilt my mother must have inside, feelings that she knows she is an inadequae mother and was a t times cruel. this i have compassion on. thtis i can relate to. i don't forgive it and it's all beter back to pretending we can have a relationship. but i can look at her with compassion, she is broken and she taught me a lot and i taught her a lot. when she dies i will be relieved but also feel the same grief as i would if she'd been a great mom. i am trying not to judge so harshly at my own mom in the knowing thati may not have been a great om if my baby had grown to term. i'm trying to be fair. i wouldn't have been abusive tho. but still, throw the first stone thing.

 

for myself, personally, it is liberating to leave the shit in the past instead of continuing to wrestle with it and carry it around with me daily...i have a lot of baggage in many areas and i don't want to keep carying that one anymore. so i leave it sitting by the roadside. maybe somebody else would like to throw it in their pickup and drive it around for awhile? it shaped me. it made me who i am today. it served its purpose. now i move on to deal with the next baggage weighing on me. which is currently, forgiving(not just accepting but actually forgiving) myself for the shit things i did to my most loved ones in my life. that's my current issue. i am done dealing with the issues of "mom n dad shit on me, weren't there for me, betrayed me, disbelieved me, i wish they hadn't, what can i do to get them back/make them change?  and etc." eventually we come to a point where we are able to let go, and move to the next thing, or we stay stuck forever. it has taken a lot of work to get to this point, but i'm moving forward, one piece of old baggage lighter.

 

hopefully this thread keeps going to suport thosewho are still in anguish over the past narcmoms and narcdads. there's sure a lot of us children of them here at BB's! this thread was helpful to me while i was trying to get the nerve up to go NO CONTACT withmy nmom and ndad and nbrother. this thread also gave me an opportunity to stand up to a predatory narcicisst publicly and test my wings at standing my ground, not backing down from a narc and to also, hopefully, be a useful example to others who are trying to see what it looks like to stand up to the bullies in their own lives. i'm so grateful to magnesi for starting this support group and to everyone here for trusting strangers, nough to help each other.

 

so the time has come for me to move on to other issues that i need to deal with in my life, as i have gotten what i needed from this thread/support group. i will se some of yall around BB since we became good friends in pm andon other threads as well as this one.  cheers everybody!