Adult children of narcissists (ACON)

[[va...]]

Estee, I answered you above, just so you don't miss it. Have a great Saturday with kitty 

[[Es...]]

Estee I'm so sorry you went through this. You say she's not a bad person. I think they are bad people. What kind of person gets high on destroying their child? They are monsters. Have you watched the YouTube video where meredith miller interviews dr George Simon? On the topic "in sheep's clothing". Enough of this "there's no bad people". I'm a mother, I'm not perfect but I could never hurt my daughter and then fell good about it! That's pure evil. The same with all this forgiveness BS. I think telling people that they are less than me because I forgave and you didn't, should be completely banned in these groups. In fact it is forbidden to say that in my fb groups. Thank God there are mods there who know about this. That's why I'm so reluctant to share here. I hope you can stop seeing this "not bad person" for a while. I'm done with the weekly lunches for a while, probably for good. Maybe that awful lunch I had was a blessing after all. Take a break Estee, a few months. But if you're seeing her for financial reasons you go and get that dough. She owes you, for destroying you when she was given a child to bring her up, not down. I love you Estee.

 

I love you too, Val. I have read "In Sheep's Clothing" by Dr. George K. Simon.

 

I didn't see the interview you mentioned. I prefer reading to watching YouTube. I will have a look, though.

 

I found this classification of personality types, according to George Simon, interesting. I guess our NPD parents are aggressive personality types. And we are more of neurotic personality types.

 

Have a peaceful Saturday, Val

[[va...]]

I also read the book in sheep's clothing. Finally some common sense against all this "everyone is inherently good" psycobabble. I completely understand. Get that dough Estee. It's all you're ever going to her from her anyway and whatever amount you get, it will never compensate for the hell of being raised by a full blown NPD parent.

[[Es...]]

I also read the book in sheep's clothing. Finally some common sense against all this "everyone is inherently good" psycobabble. I completely understand. Get that dough Estee. It's all you're ever going to her from her anyway and whatever amount you get, it will never compensate for the hell of being raised by a full blown NPD parent.

 

You are right, Val. The most tragic thing about it all. I will never stop believing that she could change. This is what hurts so much. I gave up on Father. I simply cannot give up on her. At least for now. She is the daughter of my late Grandfather, whom I loved very much. He was always good to me. He has been my most important role model ever. But he had severe PTSD. I'd rather not talk about it on this thread.

[[Ma...]]

I do not know what the correct diagnosis for both of my parents would be and its not important anyway. I almost every day get a reminder how weird my childhood has been and how wrong it all was. no matter if I am in a supermarket seeing a happy child with the mother and a thought comes up into my mind like "oh, this mother takes care of her child? not the other way?" or lately when I was at my osteopaths office and she is a strong women and told me how she left her husband with 3 kids and I thought "really? one can do that?" in the first second after my adult brain set in and said "you did such a great job woman!"

 

I also cannot understand how it still affects me and my current situation in life that I am always in search for safety and love and end up being a slave with no perspective to escape.

 

what a dark comment. so sorry

today is a bad day.

 

Marigold my life is the same. I live with this permanent sadness which is a side effect of being born to two people who were completely unable to give a damn about anything but themselves, and one being a sadist who thrives on destroying his own child. It's a miracle I'm alive and not in a psych ward. My therapist said most people would've killed themselves. And then all the trauma in my adult life as a consequence of being completely alone in the world and being raised with no guidance from normal people teaching me what's normal. Now, when my bwd crash occurred, I've come to terms with "mother" as being completely alone with my daughter was scary, and I've gone NC with narcopath "father". It was too much even to look at his face.

 

I think my parents were not sadistic and I do not know if they are narcists. They never really wanted to be bad. Both of them traumatized themselves, it all started good, I was raised with the belief that communication is everything but then it turned into being an open book to my mother, and not being able to become a person myself, to help them was my goal since I was born. Later she told me she did not want me and was depressed since I was born this explained a lot to me. Depression and sadness - and I thought since I was 3 I had to make her happy. Later I found out both were alcoholics, then they could not earn money any more - but from the outside - the perfect family. I had the best grades and no teacher would ever thought there was a problem. And THAT lead to me being sick, my body sending signals - and in the end I had break down after break down - no wonder that I am now where I am in life.

It is so hard to be angry and at the same time I still want to make it right. To make it hole again. So stupid.

All the therapies could not fix that. How could they. If you are raised and your hole life has turned around the approach to keep the family running, how can you change this belief later. Even though I keep the contact to the family rare, my soul brings up that approach again and again. Maybe that is why I am still with this partner who is also not good for me and I am too poor and sick to leave.

 

The only thing that can heal that family tragedy is my dog because she IS family. She is reliable and loves unconditionally. With her I FEEL healing. That is why I think the right people around us can fix a lot. Or animals. And its without talking. Because all the stuff does not happen in the brain area where you talk, its much deeper.  :'(

[[Wi...]]

Marigold, I can't write much, but just wanted to tell you what a beautiful post you wrote. Your childhood and history sound almost exactly like mine. And I agree about what you write of animals. Thank you for putting all this into words. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

[[be...]]

This is such a good thread. I’m sorry for the lot of us. It’s good to know I’m not alone.

[[Wi...]]

This is such a good thread. I’m sorry for the lot of us. It’s good to know I’m not alone.

 

[[Ma...]]

What do you guys do when you feel very low? The kind of you cannot Go on anymore?

I do not have real Friends any more so I really have no one to call of to reach out Thais when

Icontact my mom and its always horrible.

 

I once Said to her I do not know how to live on with all The deseases and that I am afraid to become

invalid because of the osteoporosis..

That was The normal answer/reaction: she cried and wanted me to Join crying with her.

For her life was so Bad also.

But Then she Said I Should do Research about swizzerland and the Instituts there who help

People die. I do Not know the english Word. But ist is legal there.

 

I was not able to react properly.

 

Today i Wang to Scream „mother you are suggesting I Should kill myself - the way you do not have to

Feel Guilty?? I have to Pay for that?! So Anfrage You Would geht an invalid child???“

 

In the Same week actually a psychiatrist told me a way how to kill myself in case I Would Become invalid!

 

I was reaching out for help this year a lot. No one told me good things of gave ne hope.

the worst reactions Were the 2 I Write above, But I had to end a longterm relationship to my best friend behause she ignored me. Still living with a Partner who is an asshole.

 

I feel very lonely. Maybe I am just cutting off all evil in my Life of Iwill end totally Alone?

 

But i have not come so far to let my fears win... of People who think I am better dead

 

But I still call her once a week:./

[[Wi...]]

What do you guys do when you feel very low? The kind of you cannot Go on anymore?

I do not have real Friends any more so I really have no one to call of to reach out Thais when

Icontact my mom and its always horrible.

 

I once Said to her I do not know how to live on with all The deseases and that I am afraid to become

invalid because of the osteoporosis..

That was The normal answer/reaction: she cried and wanted me to Join crying with her.

For her life was so Bad also.

But Then she Said I Should do Research about swizzerland and the Instituts there who help

People die. I do Not know the english Word.

 

 

The times when I've broken No Contact have always been when I feel as you describe. I've slipped up often (it's very hard), although it's slowly starting to happen less. (I have a good husband, but I can't always talk to him when I feel the pain of this -- he's carrying a heavy burden in my withdrawal already.)

 

I always regret contacting them, as it always ends horrifically, just as you describe. Usually with me crying hysterically about how I don't understand why they could not love me and how they did all the things they did, and them rolling their eyes and telling me I need to be medicated.... My mother has also suggested similar things to what your mother said about assisted suicide in Switzerland. (She'd tried to kill me twice when I was younger.)

 

At the very low times, I'm learning to ride it out and stay the hell away from them. The more I'm able to stay away, the more I heal. I'm not saying anyone else should go No Contact, as people have different circumstances, financial issues, etc. (Low Contact is a valid option.) But, for me, I found it's the only way I can make progress. It's like whenever I contact them (they never contact me), the wound gets ripped wide open again, and I have to start from scratch. And it sets me back by months. I become severely suicidal and self-destructive. It destroys my self-esteem completely.

 

I've looked into using online/skype therapy. I found a lovely therapist named Persephone Maywald, who specializes in ACON. She's easy to look up. She seemed very compassionate and knowledgeable when I contacted her (I think she'd gone through it herself), so I'm considering that option -- just to have someone kind to talk to, and for support.

 

I've also found two workbooks that are helping me a lot to work through things:

The Emotionally Absent Mother: How to Recognize and Heal the Invisible Effects of Childhood Emotional Neglect (Jasmin Lee Cori)

&

Growing Up Again: Parenting Ourselves, Parenting Our Children (Connie Dawson)

 

The first one was recommended by Parker, who used to be on BB and wrote so many helpful posts. These are helping me tremendously with ideas when the low times hit. They've been a lifeline to me, slowly teaching me how to build a new life away from my family of origin. Also, reading these 2 pages helps me a lot at those bad times:

https://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/no-contact-stories/

&

https://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/lights-no-contact-essay/

 

I don't want to minimize how hard it is for you, or for any of us, Marigold. And I know everyone's circumstances are different. It's the most painful thing in my life. But it can and does get better.

 

I've read many of your posts -- you are incredibly bright and strong, and have so much to offer. You shine. You're a fighter. You will not end up an invalid, or alone. You deserve a helluva lot more, and it will happen for you, as you work through things more.

 

[[va...]]

What do you guys do when you feel very low? The kind of you cannot Go on anymore?

I do not have real Friends any more so I really have no one to call of to reach out Thais when

Icontact my mom and its always horrible.

 

I once Said to her I do not know how to live on with all The deseases and that I am afraid to become

invalid because of the osteoporosis..

That was The normal answer/reaction: she cried and wanted me to Join crying with her.

For her life was so Bad also.

But Then she Said I Should do Research about swizzerland and the Instituts there who help

People die. I do Not know the english Word. But ist is legal there.

 

I was not able to react properly.

 

Today i Wang to Scream „mother you are suggesting I Should kill myself - the way you do not have to

Feel Guilty?? I have to Pay for that?! So Anfrage You Would geht an invalid child???“

 

In the Same week actually a psychiatrist told me a way how to kill myself in case I Would Become invalid!

 

I was reaching out for help this year a lot. No one told me good things of gave ne hope.

the worst reactions Were the 2 I Write above, But I had to end a longterm relationship to my best friend behause she ignored me. Still living with a Partner who is an asshole.

 

I feel very lonely. Maybe I am just cutting off all evil in my Life of Iwill end totally Alone?

 

But i have not come so far to let my fears win... of People who think I am better dead

 

But I still call her once a week:./

 

Marigold I'm so sorry you're feeling so low, and that your mother thinks it's ok to kill yourself. These are not normal parents. If my daughter told me that I'd stick to her all day and night to make sure she wouldn't do it, as any normal mother would. Marigold what keeps me alive is my daughter. I had her when I was already 37. Before that I did have SI sometimes. I understand you. You feel you have nothing to live for and life is all suffering. Some people, many in fact, live for their pet. Sometimes a little shelter dog or cat can save a person's life and you're saving the animal's life too. Then there's the fact that we outlive them and that's very depressing so you have to be prepared for that. Are you treating your osteoporosis? I would get the treatment. A buddie pmd me and told me she was in treatment for twenty years and w was leading a normal life, whilst her mother had refused treatment and was incapacitated.

[[va...]]

Yes Benzogirl, there's thousands of us over the world but we're the exception. Such awful parents are not the norm, that's why we mostly see normal families around us, or at least more normal than ours, but in the support groups you find many. What surprises me is how their behavior is so similar regardless of what part of the world they are. A full blown NPD is so predictable once you educate yourself about them. However the covert ones are much more difficult to spot and much more unpredictable. I also think the covert one can be smarter and fool EVERYONE, as my mother does. However my father is full blown NPD and most people realize he's nuts after a while. Most, not all, he still has his flying monkeys. His cleaning lady was abducted by him and told me how he was a Saint. Then one day he started showing his true colors with her. Next time she met me, she told me that when she was how he really was, she thought "this poor woman, what her childhood must have been". What I find really tough about this is the loneliness as there's a complete lack of validation from society, especially as they invest all their energy into projecting this fake persona to the world, and NOBODY knows their true colors except the children, and not all of them. I am the scapegoat and my brother is the golden child. He had an entirely different experience. They've also turned him into a carbon copy of themselves. The loneliness of this really sucks. How could we not be depressed? But depressed or not, I believe we have to keep living. That's why I said having a pet can really become a reason to live.

[[Ma...]]

Thanks to anyone who has responded to my latest post about my mother and so on....

 

I would tell anyone I see suffering, especially the women I do know in person, this: And lord, I would not cry while saying that:

YOU are strong. Its normal to feel defeated, but this is not how it will be forever. You will rise again. They are just idiots, don't you believe them!

 

Thats the reason I am still in search for elder women who live in a different way my mother does. Running an own busines, being independent, free, loving and caring for themselves as much as for others.

[[Wi...]]

 

I would tell anyone I see suffering, especially the women I do know in person, this: And lord, I would not cry while saying that:

YOU are strong. Its normal to feel defeated, but this is not how it will be forever. You will rise again. They are just idiots, don't you believe them!

 

Thats the reason I am still in search for elder women who live in a different way my mother does. Running an own busines, being independent, free, loving and caring for themselves as much as for others.

 

Fantastic post. I couldn't agree more.

[[Ma...]]

 

I would tell anyone I see suffering, especially the women I do know in person, this: And lord, I would not cry while saying that:

YOU are strong. Its normal to feel defeated, but this is not how it will be forever. You will rise again. They are just idiots, don't you believe them!

 

Thats the reason I am still in search for elder women who live in a different way my mother does. Running an own busines, being independent, free, loving and caring for themselves as much as for others.

 

Fantastic post. I couldn't agree more.

 

Its sad that I hardly find women like this. Or maybe I am not where they are. I do not know. But as soon as I discover one, I cherish her. My latest found i my new osteopath... 

[[be...]]

Yes Benzogirl, there's thousands of us over the world but we're the exception. Such awful parents are not the norm, that's why we mostly see normal families around us, or at least more normal than ours, but in the support groups you find many. What surprises me is how their behavior is so similar regardless of what part of the world they are. A full blown NPD is so predictable once you educate yourself about them. However the covert ones are much more difficult to spot and much more unpredictable. I also think the covert one can be smarter and fool EVERYONE, as my mother does. However my father is full blown NPD and most people realize he's nuts after a while. Most, not all, he still has his flying monkeys. His cleaning lady was abducted by him and told me how he was a Saint. Then one day he started showing his true colors with her. Next time she met me, she told me that when she was how he really was, she thought "this poor woman, what her childhood must have been". What I find really tough about this is the loneliness as there's a complete lack of validation from society, especially as they invest all their energy into projecting this fake persona to the world, and NOBODY knows their true colors except the children, and not all of them. I am the scapegoat and my brother is the golden child. He had an entirely different experience. They've also turned him into a carbon copy of themselves. The loneliness of this really sucks. How could we not be depressed? But depressed or not, I believe we have to keep living. That's why I said having a pet can really become a reason to live.

 

I guess that’s why since I got out of college in the late ‘80s I trained and showed dogs. And I always have a cat. They don’t judge and love you unconditionally, what I don’t understand if I figured out my father a very long time ago and only when I saw my mother this past September did I figure her out too. I knew she favored my one brother who takes total advantage of her and always has, but I guess I needed to hear the words out loud. He is my favorite child. Ouch that hurt. I used to call her every day because she’s older and home bound, as I felt sorry for her.

 

Now I call her once or twice a week and keep the calls brief. I honestly have to mentally prepare myself. The sad part is I’m sure she forgot she told me that . But she feels it inside. I could almost forget my father because he was a lifelong drunk but what excuse do I have for her?

 

I was very athletic in high school. I was the first female to win athlete of my graduating class. I got this huge trophy and couldn’t wait to show her. I did and she absently said, that’s nice. And nothing else. I was so proud of that trophy but right then and there I threw it in the trash can outside. She didn’t even know or care. The best day was when I went off to college on a full sports scholarship. I never came home from the breaks in school and my parents didn’t notice. Once I graduated I moved out....it still hurts. My mother thinks if she watches mass on TV every day all is forgiven.

 

But I guess it’s true. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I must be very strong...

[[va...]]

I need a mom so badly too. A woman in her seventies who cares about me and doesn't compete me over male attention and over my own father's attention. That was /is my mother.

 

Estee you said this thread isn't public for guests? How do we know?

[[Ma...]]

Yes Benzogirl, there's thousands of us over the world but we're the exception. Such awful parents are not the norm, that's why we mostly see normal families around us, or at least more normal than ours, but in the support groups you find many. What surprises me is how their behavior is so similar regardless of what part of the world they are. A full blown NPD is so predictable once you educate yourself about them. However the covert ones are much more difficult to spot and much more unpredictable. I also think the covert one can be smarter and fool EVERYONE, as my mother does. However my father is full blown NPD and most people realize he's nuts after a while. Most, not all, he still has his flying monkeys. His cleaning lady was abducted by him and told me how he was a Saint. Then one day he started showing his true colors with her. Next time she met me, she told me that when she was how he really was, she thought "this poor woman, what her childhood must have been". What I find really tough about this is the loneliness as there's a complete lack of validation from society, especially as they invest all their energy into projecting this fake persona to the world, and NOBODY knows their true colors except the children, and not all of them. I am the scapegoat and my brother is the golden child. He had an entirely different experience. They've also turned him into a carbon copy of themselves. The loneliness of this really sucks. How could we not be depressed? But depressed or not, I believe we have to keep living. That's why I said having a pet can really become a reason to live.

 

I guess that’s why since I got out of college in the late ‘80s I trained and showed dogs. And I always have a cat. They don’t judge and love you unconditionally, what I don’t understand if I figured out my father a very long time ago and only when I saw my mother this past September did I figure her out too. I knew she favored my one brother who takes total advantage of her and always has, but I guess I needed to hear the words out loud. He is my favorite child. Ouch that hurt. I used to call her every day because she’s older and home bound, as I felt sorry for her.

 

Now I call her once or twice a week and keep the calls brief. I honestly have to mentally prepare myself. The sad part is I’m sure she forgot she told me that . But she feels it inside. I could almost forget my father because he was a lifelong drunk but what excuse do I have for her?

 

I was very athletic in high school. I was the first female to win athlete of my graduating class. I got this huge trophy and couldn’t wait to show her. I did and she absently said, that’s nice. And nothing else. I was so proud of that trophy but right then and there I threw it in the trash can outside. She didn’t even know or care. The best day was when I went off to college on a full sports scholarship. I never came home from the breaks in school and my parents didn’t notice. Once I graduated I moved out....it still hurts.

 

Well then... this has to be said: Wow!! You did such a great job! what a big trophy!! You may not know it yet, but today is a great day, my daughter, because you were the first woman to win this! This is huge!

(Thats what should have been said!). Good job, benzogirl!!

 

.. I also can forget about my father more easily but I can also forgive him more easily. Mother has spin a net around my soul. Thats how I feel it. I cut one piece out, okey, but then there still is the other part of the huge net. She was a good spider.

 

And I disagree that our experience is rare and not the norm. I am convinced it happened in every 2d family. The others are just not strong enough to talk about it and to break free, like we are!

[[va...]]

Benzogirl I can relate to many of the things you say. In my personal experience, I feel even if the father is more overtly violent and abusive, a mother always hurts more. A child will never bare not being loved by her own mother. It hurts too much. It's unbearable. We've covered it under tons of anger, cinicism, drink, drugs, love addiction, food addiction, diet addiction, fear of being around other people... If your own mother did not love you, you're broken inside. We have to mend but I don't know how. There's this girl on Instagram called the holistic psychologist. She helps with this. I was following her actively till bzd blew my whole life in June.

[[va...]]

Yes Benzogirl, there's thousands of us over the world but we're the exception. Such awful parents are not the norm, that's why we mostly see normal families around us, or at least more normal than ours, but in the support groups you find many. What surprises me is how their behavior is so similar regardless of what part of the world they are. A full blown NPD is so predictable once you educate yourself about them. However the covert ones are much more difficult to spot and much more unpredictable. I also think the covert one can be smarter and fool EVERYONE, as my mother does. However my father is full blown NPD and most people realize he's nuts after a while. Most, not all, he still has his flying monkeys. His cleaning lady was abducted by him and told me how he was a Saint. Then one day he started showing his true colors with her. Next time she met me, she told me that when she was how he really was, she thought "this poor woman, what her childhood must have been". What I find really tough about this is the loneliness as there's a complete lack of validation from society, especially as they invest all their energy into projecting this fake persona to the world, and NOBODY knows their true colors except the children, and not all of them. I am the scapegoat and my brother is the golden child. He had an entirely different experience. They've also turned him into a carbon copy of themselves. The loneliness of this really sucks. How could we not be depressed? But depressed or not, I believe we have to keep living. That's why I said having a pet can really become a reason to live.

 

I guess that’s why since I got out of college in the late ‘80s I trained and showed dogs. And I always have a cat. They don’t judge and love you unconditionally, what I don’t understand if I figured out my father a very long time ago and only when I saw my mother this past September did I figure her out too. I knew she favored my one brother who takes total advantage of her and always has, but I guess I needed to hear the words out loud. He is my favorite child. Ouch that hurt. I used to call her every day because she’s older and home bound, as I felt sorry for her.

 

Now I call her once or twice a week and keep the calls brief. I honestly have to mentally prepare myself. The sad part is I’m sure she forgot she told me that . But she feels it inside. I could almost forget my father because he was a lifelong drunk but what excuse do I have for her?

 

I was very athletic in high school. I was the first female to win athlete of my graduating class. I got this huge trophy and couldn’t wait to show her. I did and she absently said, that’s nice. And nothing else. I was so proud of that trophy but right then and there I threw it in the trash can outside. She didn’t even know or care. The best day was when I went off to college on a full sports scholarship. I never came home from the breaks in school and my parents didn’t notice. Once I graduated I moved out....it still hurts.

 

Well then... this has to be said: Wow!! You did such a great job! what a big trophy!! You may not know it yet, but today is a great day, my daughter, because you were the first woman to win this! This is huge!

(Thats what should have been said!). Good job, benzogirl!!

 

.. I also can forget about my father more easily but I can also forgive him more easily. Mother has spin a net around my soul. Thats how I feel it. I cut one piece out, okey, but then there still is the other part of the huge net. She was a good spider.

 

And I disagree that our experience is rare and not the norm. I am convinced it happened in every 2d family. The others are just not strong enough to talk about it and to break free, like we are!

 

Marigold, IMO it depends on what kind of dysfunction we're taking about. If we're talking about being born to a parent with full blown NPD, only 2-4% of the population suffer from this disorder, c so very few children would have this kind of father /mother. I have seen many dusfinctional parents in my life, and I am 100%  sure that I'm one of them, but a parent with NPD, especially a malignant narcissist, is a completely different story. And that is why nobody gets it. And everybody says "oh yes my father also had a bad temper" but you know that most of them don't get a sadistic psychopathic pleasure from destroying their own children.

[[Ma...]]

Yes Benzogirl, there's thousands of us over the world but we're the exception. Such awful parents are not the norm, that's why we mostly see normal families around us, or at least more normal than ours, but in the support groups you find many. What surprises me is how their behavior is so similar regardless of what part of the world they are. A full blown NPD is so predictable once you educate yourself about them. However the covert ones are much more difficult to spot and much more unpredictable. I also think the covert one can be smarter and fool EVERYONE, as my mother does. However my father is full blown NPD and most people realize he's nuts after a while. Most, not all, he still has his flying monkeys. His cleaning lady was abducted by him and told me how he was a Saint. Then one day he started showing his true colors with her. Next time she met me, she told me that when she was how he really was, she thought "this poor woman, what her childhood must have been". What I find really tough about this is the loneliness as there's a complete lack of validation from society, especially as they invest all their energy into projecting this fake persona to the world, and NOBODY knows their true colors except the children, and not all of them. I am the scapegoat and my brother is the golden child. He had an entirely different experience. They've also turned him into a carbon copy of themselves. The loneliness of this really sucks. How could we not be depressed? But depressed or not, I believe we have to keep living. That's why I said having a pet can really become a reason to live.

 

I guess that’s why since I got out of college in the late ‘80s I trained and showed dogs. And I always have a cat. They don’t judge and love you unconditionally, what I don’t understand if I figured out my father a very long time ago and only when I saw my mother this past September did I figure her out too. I knew she favored my one brother who takes total advantage of her and always has, but I guess I needed to hear the words out loud. He is my favorite child. Ouch that hurt. I used to call her every day because she’s older and home bound, as I felt sorry for her.

 

Now I call her once or twice a week and keep the calls brief. I honestly have to mentally prepare myself. The sad part is I’m sure she forgot she told me that . But she feels it inside. I could almost forget my father because he was a lifelong drunk but what excuse do I have for her?

 

I was very athletic in high school. I was the first female to win athlete of my graduating class. I got this huge trophy and couldn’t wait to show her. I did and she absently said, that’s nice. And nothing else. I was so proud of that trophy but right then and there I threw it in the trash can outside. She didn’t even know or care. The best day was when I went off to college on a full sports scholarship. I never came home from the breaks in school and my parents didn’t notice. Once I graduated I moved out....it still hurts.

 

Well then... this has to be said: Wow!! You did such a great job! what a big trophy!! You may not know it yet, but today is a great day, my daughter, because you were the first woman to win this! This is huge!

(Thats what should have been said!). Good job, benzogirl!!

 

.. I also can forget about my father more easily but I can also forgive him more easily. Mother has spin a net around my soul. Thats how I feel it. I cut one piece out, okey, but then there still is the other part of the huge net. She was a good spider.

 

And I disagree that our experience is rare and not the norm. I am convinced it happened in every 2d family. The others are just not strong enough to talk about it and to break free, like we are!

 

Marigold, IMO it depends on what kind of dysfunction we're taking about. If we're talking about being born to a parent with full blown NPD, only 2-4% of the population suffer from this disorder, c so very few children would have this kind of father /mother. I have seen many dusfinctional parents in my life, and I am 100%  sure that I'm one of them, but a parent with NPD, especially a malignant narcissist, is a completely different story. And that is why nobody gets it. And everybody says "oh yes my father also had a bad temper" but you know that most of them don't get a sadistic psychopathic pleasure from destroying their own children.

 

To be honest whenever I talked about my childhood, people couldn't say anything and hardly hold back tears and no one has ever told me that their parents would also "had a bad temper", oh dear, that must have been horrible for you to hear! People are really unbelievable. Who said this to you?! So sorry this happened to you.

Being traumatized has nothing to do with bad habits, manners or a "temper" or something like that!

Thats what I was talking about, traumatizing children. I do not know if there are studies, which personality disorder traumatizes most I think one cannot compare it, but I think if you as a child feel that your parent ENJOYS torturing you, THAT is the point you meant and then you are totally right..

 

I just read a German article about narcissism and was quite surprised that depression IS a symptom of it, too! Lets me think a lot...

[[va...]]

Thank you marigold. Most people say stuff like that, at least in my country Spain. This is Mediterranean culture and families are very tight knit. Not mine. I have NEVER met a father like mine. However in the groups I've seen many childhoods that were carbon copies of mine, reported by other adult children scattered from the US to Pakistan to Indonesia. They're all very very similar. Pure evil.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you marigold. Most people say stuff like that, at least in my country Spain. This is Mediterranean culture and families are very tight knit. Not mine. I have NEVER met a father like mine. However in the groups I've seen many childhoods that were carbon copies of mine, reported by other adult children scattered from the US to Pakistan to Indonesia. They're all very very similar. Pure evil.

 

I know that my therapist with whom I worked on my PTSD, only had patients with PTSD. She was an expert also for children with PTSD..

On some days she said, she would come home and threw up and spend hours in the shower to get the dirt and evil off her. She said one cannot imagine what people do and how humans can be. And in case they do that to children she would need so many strategies to still be able to help and not drown in all that evil.

 

[[ma...]]

I think I just entered high school. I recall rarely sleeping at my home during those four years. If dad cane home and first chugged a bottle of Canadian Club, all this kids scattered. Mom just tried to calm him down and paid no attention to us. She still pays no attention to me and told me recently my brother John was her favorite child. This was after spending 12 years being her24/7 caregiver. I can say that I avoid her and even moved 600 miles away to be rid of her and John...

 

It was also when I started realizing things were not quite right in our family. I guess that before that we accept our reality as normal. It's funny that I don't remember much of those earlier years, before highschool, although it was for sure when most damage was made, when we internalized all those projected messages that shaped our personality, at least mine, in wrong self defeating ways that I'm now working so hard to revert. 

 

What your mother said and did was not fair but narcissists are like that, they can't help it. I don't know other details but I imagine that she can feel threatened or envious that you are a strong person. If she is able to control your brother, she will prefer him. It's not about him or about you, it's only about her like it always is with narcissists. Some years ago my mother was very ill and I took care of her whereas my siblings never even showed up, including her favorite, my golden child sister. But as soon as she got well, after a very short period of a kind of gratitude, everything returned to the same and I was again ignored, criticized, etc.

 

Your family has many similarities with mine benzogirl. Your father was an alcoholic, mine had drug problems, and both our mothers treated us poorly despite we tried to help them and seem to prefer our siblings. But you know what? I am grateful to not have been preferred because now I can see very clearly how they really are and try to heal and improve, while my golden child sister seems unable to ever waking up. I read somewhere that golden children hardly ever wake up because what reality has to offer them is far below their expectations. I'm grateful to not have that problem.

[[Be...]]

I wish everyone could at least find peace with their parents or siblings before they die.  I had problems with my dad since he was abusive, but made peace with him before he died.  I made peace with my abusive mother too but she's still alive.  I wonder how it feels to not have peace with a parent who was abusive before they die?