Adult children of narcissists (ACON)

[[be...]]

My father was horrible to us kids. A true narcissist. He only thought about himself. And he drank and drank. He was terribly nasty. I recall once when I was only nine and doing my homework he put a large caliber pistol to my head. I was terrified.  But he’s dead so a long time ago I moved on. I will not let his behavior ruin my life. It’s not easy at times.

 

 

:smitten:

[[ma...]]

I’m so sorry Estee for what you have had to endure, and still are with the parent whom you still have some contact with. And I agree that it is therapeutic to talk about things instead of keeping them bottled up. But given this is the Internet, I also understand why some choose to not talk here.

 

It amazes me how resilient people can be, although having dealt with some pretty horrific things in life. I personally think most people have been raised around a measure of dysfunction. Some have endured greater abuse than others. But simply put any abuse is wrong. I know for a fact that I was not the perfect parent. They(my kid) would be quick to tell you that too.

 

My parents divorced when I was quite young. Over the years, as an adult, I have come to reconcile feelings of ill will towards them; feelings that resulted from the divorce and its affect on the family.

 

Obviously, if there is extreme abuse, all parties concerned are better off if the abuser were not present. We each have our own threshold of what we can tolerate. So nothing I say is set in stone. I never saw any level of abuse in my family that warranted a divorce. Divorce is a serious decision that I do not take lightly. There was a time when I viewed marriage in a different light...I basically felt to each his own. I no longer view marriage that way. I see it as a sacred arrangement that, in part, requires a lot of quality time....and MORE time for it to go smoothly.

 

I’ve heard of more than one account where even though one partner was quite violent towards their mate, the relationship survived and even ultimately, thrived. The reason these marriages survived is because the abusive mate made changes for the better.

 

I have not dealt with family gatherings for most of my adult life. At the age of 23 I stopped celebrating all popular religious and secular holidays.  Because of my stand, and since most family gatherings are centered on religious/secular holidays, I rarely see my immediate and extended family members in family group settings. Many of them are deceased now.

 

Bluerose, it's difficult to measure the level of abuse and I think we shouldn't try it here. There are many factors and abuse can take many forms. Physical abuse is not necessarily worse than psychological abuse, specially for a child whose personality is being formed. Simple neglect is a terrible form of abuse for a child.

 

In addition, covert abuse is hard to pinpoint, even for its targets, who may spend a lifetime not understanding what really happened much less being able to explain it to other people.

 

As the other day I read on Quora, "a person who isn't familiar with the [narcissistic] personality won't know what this silent abuse feels like. It can happen right before their eyes and they still won't be able to grip that feeling you explain. Until others see behind the mask it's hard for them to grip what you're experiencing."

 

The mask is the fake personality that narcissists present to the world. They appear to be fantastic and dedicated parents who sacrifice everything for their children. However, the reality is much sinister. Remember that bad people also have children.

 

The reality is that they don't want you to develop into an independent adult. They prefer to crush you. They will try to convince you, by words, deeds and omissions, you that you are fundamentally flawed, bad and unworthy of love, care or attention. They will shame you and blame you of things like their divorce or their ex not paying the alimony on time or not giving them enough money (money is never enough but they also never spare it). You will have to carry their insulting messages and bring them the reply. They will turn your siblings against you and vice-versa, will ignore you as you fall into depression and will laugh at you if you try to kill yourself and fail. You will not remember a single word of encouragement, friendly smile or caress from your mother. You will remember a sly smile on her face when she saw you were hurt with something she or one of your siblings said. You will also remember the feeling of revulsion at the proximity of her skin. And you will hate her touch.

 

This marks you deeply but is very difficult to convey even when you are willing to tell some details of your story. This group is a safe place for people abused by narcissistic parents as children, so I think we have to be careful not to downplay others' experiences even unintentionally.

 

I am glad that over time you have found peace with your parents and their decision to divorce. Sometimes there is no alternative. In my case, I was happy when my parents divorced because they had a terrible relationship and made everyone miserable around them. After the divorce they continued making us miserable but at least we had some space and they eventually became a little calmer. My father is an overt narcissist and my mother a covert one. They just couldn't have stayed together, it was JUST drama, continuously, and we suffered terribly, I can not tell everything.

[[va...]]

I’m so sorry Estee for what you have had to endure, and still are with the parent whom you still have some contact with. And I agree that it is therapeutic to talk about things instead of keeping them bottled up. But given this is the Internet, I also understand why some choose to not talk here.

 

It amazes me how resilient people can be, although having dealt with some pretty horrific things in life. I personally think most people have been raised around a measure of dysfunction. Some have endured greater abuse than others. But simply put any abuse is wrong. I know for a fact that I was not the perfect parent. They(my kid) would be quick to tell you that too.

 

My parents divorced when I was quite young. Over the years, as an adult, I have come to reconcile feelings of ill will towards them; feelings that resulted from the divorce and its affect on the family.

 

Obviously, if there is extreme abuse, all parties concerned are better off if the abuser were not present. We each have our own threshold of what we can tolerate. So nothing I say is set in stone. I never saw any level of abuse in my family that warranted a divorce. Divorce is a serious decision that I do not take lightly. There was a time when I viewed marriage in a different light...I basically felt to each his own. I no longer view marriage that way. I see it as a sacred arrangement that, in part, requires a lot of quality time....and MORE time for it to go smoothly.

 

I’ve heard of more than one account where even though one partner was quite violent towards their mate, the relationship survived and even ultimately, thrived. The reason these marriages survived is because the abusive mate made changes for the better.

 

I have not dealt with family gatherings for most of my adult life. At the age of 23 I stopped celebrating all popular religious and secular holidays.  Because of my stand, and since most family gatherings are centered on religious/secular holidays, I rarely see my immediate and extended family members in family group settings. Many of them are deceased now.

 

Bluerose, it's difficult to measure the level of abuse and I think we shouldn't try it here. There are many factors and abuse can take many forms. Physical abuse is not necessarily worse than psychological abuse, specially for a child whose personality is being formed, and simple neglet is a terrible form of abuse for a child.

 

In addition, covert abuse is hard to pinpoint, even for its targets, who may spend a lifetime not understanding what really happened much less being able to explain it to other people.

 

As the other day I read on Quora, "a person who isn't familiar with the [narcissistic] personality won't know what this silent abuse feels like. It can happen right before their eyes and they still won't be able to grip that feeling you explain. Until others see behind the mask it's hard for them to grip what you're experiencing."

 

The mask is the fake personality that narcissists present to the world. They appear to be fantastic and dedicated parents who sacrifice everything for their children. However, the reality is much sinister. Remember that bad people also have children.

 

The reality is that they don't want you to develop into an independent adult. They prefer to crush you. They will try to convince you, by words, deeds and omissions, you that you are fundamentally flawed, bad and unworthy of love, care or attention. They will shame you and blame you of things like their divorce or their ex not paying the alimony on time or not giving them enough money (money is never enough but they also never spare it). You will have to carry their insulting messages and bring them the reply. They will turn your siblings against you and vice-versa, will ignore you as you fall into depression and will laugh at you if you try to kill yourself and fail. You will not remember a single word of encouragement, friendly smile or caress from your mother. You will remember a sly smile on her face when she saw you were hurt with something she or one of your siblings said. You will also remember the feeling of revulsion at the proximity of her skin. And you will hate her touch.

 

This marks you deeply but is very difficult to convey even when you are willing to tell some details of your story. This group is a safe place for children abused by narcissistic parents, so I think we have to be careful not to downplay others' experiences even unintentionally.

 

I am glad that over time you have found peace with your parents and their decision to divorce. Sometimes there is no alternative. In my case, I was happy when my parents divorced because they had a terrible relationship and made everyone miserable around them. After the divorce they continued making us miserable but at least we had some space and they eventually became a little calmer. My father was an overt narcissist and my mother a covert one. They just couldn't have stayed together, it was JUST drama, continuously, and we suffered terribly, I can not tell everything.

 

Magnesi what a sad, but precise description of what growing up with these bad excuse for parents is. I was also born to a full blown narcopath father and a histrionic cover narc mother. I have basically raised myself. I feel your pain. It the gift that keeps on giving also in adult life. Nobody gets it. It's like bwd, if you haven't lived it you will never get it. They make sure that the bad stuff happens behind closed doors. They put on such a fake face to the world. They are pillars of the community. So incredibly popular with other people, especially the covert ones. They turn everyone against you in subtle ways. I'd go on forever but my wrists are killing me. Just know that I understand every word you wrote. I wish I could express it so clearly. My ability to express these facts is quite blocked as I was told to shut up whenever I opened my mouth. I see you've done a lot of inner work.

[[Es...]]

Thank you for these posts, Magnesi and Val.

 

 

[[Bl...]]

I’m so sorry Estee for what you have had to endure, and still are with the parent whom you still have some contact with. And I agree that it is therapeutic to talk about things instead of keeping them bottled up. But given this is the Internet, I also understand why some choose to not talk here.

 

It amazes me how resilient people can be, although having dealt with some pretty horrific things in life. I personally think most people have been raised around a measure of dysfunction. Some have endured greater abuse than others. But simply put any abuse is wrong. I know for a fact that I was not the perfect parent. They(my kid) would be quick to tell you that too.

 

My parents divorced when I was quite young. Over the years, as an adult, I have come to reconcile feelings of ill will towards them; feelings that resulted from the divorce and its affect on the family.

 

Obviously, if there is extreme abuse, all parties concerned are better off if the abuser were not present. We each have our own threshold of what we can tolerate. So nothing I say is set in stone. I never saw any level of abuse in my family that warranted a divorce. Divorce is a serious decision that I do not take lightly. There was a time when I viewed marriage in a different light...I basically felt to each his own. I no longer view marriage that way. I see it as a sacred arrangement that, in part, requires a lot of quality time....and MORE time for it to go smoothly.

 

I’ve heard of more than one account where even though one partner was quite violent towards their mate, the relationship survived and even ultimately, thrived. The reason these marriages survived is because the abusive mate made changes for the better.

 

I have not dealt with family gatherings for most of my adult life. At the age of 23 I stopped celebrating all popular religious and secular holidays.  Because of my stand, and since most family gatherings are centered on religious/secular holidays, I rarely see my immediate and extended family members in family group settings. Many of them are deceased now.

.....

 

This marks you deeply but is very difficult to convey even when you are willing to tell some details of your story. This group is a safe place for people abused by narcissistic parents as children, so I think we have to be careful not to downplay others' experiences even unintentionally.

.....

 

Magnesi, I am not sure what part of my comment above is being referenced by your statement, "we have to be careful not to downplay others' experiences even unintentionally."

 

If I did "downplay" someone's experience here, "even unintentionally" as you stated...I'll admit, it certainly was unintentional. But without knowing what you are referencing I'm confused.

[[Es...]]

Hey BlueRose. I guess Magnesi wanted to emphasize the wish for this Support Group being a safe place for ALL of us. The way I see it.

 

We have different past traumas and coping mechanisms. We are not aware what others went/are going through. There may be denial, making projections, unwillingness to share. Trying to destroy this Support Group on an unconscious level. Because communicating about parental abuse is an extremely traumatizing experience. So maybe it's better to pretend things are "fine". We were taught to pretend and to conceal our feelings by our own dysfunctional families of origin. All this can lead to misunderstandings in the group itself, as we have seen in the past.

 

The most important factor is that we find the ability to communicate and support each other in this Group.

 

This thread is the first one I open when I log into BB. Now that I started feeling safe to post here again. This only shows how deeply traumatized I am by years of continued abuse. I know that what happened on this thread in the past here has made lots of us suffer. We don't need more suffering. We need Peace and Empathy from each other.

 

I was following the thread even when I wasn't posting. As long as it exists, I will be a part of it.

 

I have very little time to write these days. I posted only one sentence yesterday. As I just wanted to acknowledge the helpful posts I had read from fellow ACONs. I'm going through some extremely difficult times at present.

 

The worst thing is LACK OF COMMUNICATION. As it destroyed us in our families of origin. We may unconsciously try to bring it back here, to the ACON thread. This is why I'm writing here today. I may be tired, stressed and my thoughts may be incoherent. But I'm doing my best to communicate.

 

And I will do whatever I can to prevent the lack of communication on this thread. This is the place for all ACONs. Whatever their feelings about being an ACON.  Whether they know or only suspect that they could be ACONS.

 

Keep going, fellow Survivors of NPD abuse.

[[Tu...]]

This is a very good thread.. thank you Estee.  I'm not an ACON, but my husband is.  I really noticed it when his mom lived very near us for 5 years.  Everything was always about her, creating continuing drama and chaos.  She irritated me so badly... I was complaining to my husband alot and brought up the Narassist label.  He slowly had less contact with her and now that she's moved away, will not speak to her at all.  I thought maybe I had caused this with my complaining and bring up the narasisstic stuff, but he said no... that I had just put a name to what he had always known.

So now she calls and I make excuses for why he can't talk... busy, etc.  But she wants to know why he doesn't return her calls, messages.  I feel he should let her know why, but he's not ready to do that.  And I feel caught in the middle.  I know that's not his problem.  It's my choice to speak to her or not.  I keep things casual and always steer things away when she starts talking about him.  But she is sneaky and manipulative!

[[Bl...]]

Hey BlueRose. I guess Magnesi wanted to emphasize the wish for this Support Group being a safe place for ALL of us. The way I see it.

 

We have different past traumas and coping mechanisms. We are not aware what others went/are going through. There may be denial, making projections, unwillingness to share. Trying to destroy this Support Group on an unconscious level. Because communicating about parental abuse is an extremely traumatizing experience. So maybe it's better to pretend things are "fine". We were taught to pretend and to conceal our feelings by our own dysfunctional families of origin. All this can lead to misunderstandings in the group itself, as we have seen in the past.

 

The most important factor is that we find the ability to communicate and support each other in this Group.

 

This thread is the first one I open when I log into BB. Now that I started feeling safe to post here again. This only shows how deeply traumatized I am by years of continued abuse. I know that what happened on this thread in the past here has made lots of us suffer. We don't need more suffering. We need Peace and Empathy from each other.

 

I was following the thread even when I wasn't posting. As long as it exists, I will be a part of it.

 

I have very little time to write these days. I posted only one sentence yesterday. As I just wanted to acknowledge the helpful posts I had read from fellow ACONs. I'm going through some extremely difficult times at present.

 

The worst thing is LACK OF COMMUNICATION. As it destroyed us in our families of origin. We may unconsciously try to bring it back here, to the ACON thread. This is why I'm writing here today. I may be tired, stressed and my thoughts may be incoherent. But I'm doing my best to communicate.

 

And I will do whatever I can to prevent the lack of communication on this thread. This is the place for all ACONs. Whatever their feelings about being an ACON.  Whether they know or only suspect that they could be ACONS.

 

Keep going, fellow Survivors of NPD abuse.

 

I still am confused as regards what she was referencing in my post. Maybe it was a previous post I made that she felt uncomfortable with. That’s a possibility.

 

And you are right, communication is important. Without it how does one know what is on the minds of others? I appreciate your candor Estee. I do hope you are able to get through whatever is currently pulling at your heartstrings.

 

Given the nature of the general discussion here, I sure hope those reading my posts have not been/are not further traumatized. And I do apologize if I said something that was hurtful and resulted in undue pain.

 

In the future I will be more careful not to intentionally or unintentionally downplay the experiences of others.

[[va...]]

Blue rose I didn't in the least feel bad reading your posts. I do understand what Magnesi means, that it's impossible to determine what abuse was worse, since nobody can measure the subtle destruction of a human being that often takes place in these families.

 

I suppose that's what she meant and I agree with that, but I don't think you need to feel bad as you don't want to hurt anyone. But it is important that we don't compare what abuse was worse. We really don't know. Anyway this is a complicated topic. Even therapists don't get it. It's normal to be triggered constantly when talking about this.

[[ma...]]

Valiumnomore, bwd is an excellent analogy. Most people think we are crazy when we try to explain that we are so sick because of a drug that so many people take, and that doctors are irresponsible and don’t know how to get us out of it. The same happens with narcissistic abuse, especially when it came from our own parents. First because many of the narcissistic parents convinced everyone around that we were the bad ones and they were the victims. And also because for society parental love is taken for granted. But the same happens with the competence of doctors, so perhaps a few more people here at BB will be able to get what we say.

 

BlueRose, talking about levels of abuse that way usually implies (and is interpreted by many ACONs as meaning) that some people "were not abused enough" to be able to complain. But abuse is like cancer, we shouldn't minimize it. Stage II pancreatic cancer can be much more harmful than stage III breast cancer. And it also depends on genetics, the overall health condition, the range of treatments available, the way the patient reacts, etc. We simply don't know, cancer is always bad and can kill you.

 

But I realized that you didn't mean to minimize. I am also far from being a perfect mother, in part because as an ACON I never had a good maternal reference. And also because I only realized this dynamics and what it meant very late, so I repeated some negative behaviors during my daughters' childhood. I'm trying to accept that and correct as much as possible now.

 

Marygold, count on me! Here are some suggestions https://www.tripstodiscover.com/18-of-the-best-places-to-spend-christmas-on-the-beach/12/, they all look fantastic, except the one where we may run into a pig in the sea

 

Estee, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to avoid Christmas with nfamily this year already. I'm still processing things and I don't want to impose it on my daughters suddenly because they are not children anymore, and they don't have the same experience as I have with their aunts and grandmother. I tried not to hide things from them but this is not easy to understand. I feel it would be more constructive to try to set clear boundaries with my nmother and siblings (no fights, no drama, no badmouthing, etc.). I'll make it clear to everyone that we want to have a peaceful Christmas evening. So if things go wrong, which, you are right, is very likely to happen, everyone will understand better why, and it will be easier to make a joint decision for next year. There is also the possibility that they take offense and decide to not show up at all, but that's up to them. Or that things go really wrong and I have to ask some people to leave, which will be very unpleasant. But I feel I have no choice. It's a loose-loose situation

 

Yes, lack of communication was the main problem in our families of origin. Including ignoring people, triangulation, denying reality, taking offense, refusing to discuss things rationally. I became allergic to all this. Thanks for helping avoiding it here

 

Turtle, your husband is lucky to have you and that you try to help him (by understanding him you already help). You are not obliged to fix his relationship with his mother or to put up with her frustration. Let him do it when he is ready. It will help him heal. As I understand, he doesn't answer her calls and so she calls you instead asking why. Couldn't you tell her, polite but directly, that you don't know why he doesn't answer? If she insists on talking about him, you can use the grey rock method https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6158/gray-rock-method-dealing-narcissist/ 

 

Wildflower, I'm sorry if I missed one of your posts. Could you please tell me know which one was it? I'm sure it was not intentional because I respect and value your contribution, on this and other threads. But sometimes I'm too depressed to write, especially in English which requires greater effort and about complex issues like those of this thread. It could have been the case. I'm tapering the antidepressant and some days I can't literally get up from bed. I even get self-harm ideas, they just pop in my mind, it's heavy.

 

I feel so much your suffering, no child should have to go through something like that, it's very sad and it must have been very frightening and confusing I also fear to hurt my own family with my unresolved issues. But the fact that we worry and are giving them unconditional love means that at least they won’t be subjected to the same kind of abuse. They will just have imperfect parents that love them.

 

[[Bl...]]

It seems to me that what I said is really not the problem here with magnesi at all. Otherwise, it is my guess, that she would have highlighted what she was wanting me to see in my post. It all seems so strange and vague. I could be wrong, unless magnesi, of her own accord, takes it upon herself to express what she meant...and hopefully highlights the area of my post that was so offensive to her.

 

But seriously, I'm ok if she decides to remain silent on this. I do not want any one to be further triggered by something I said that made it sound like their suffering is somehow less than someone else's.

 

I suppose this subject(ACON) is so vague given its nature, that it is best I not contribute to it....it is inevitable that I will make another blunder without it being intentional.

 

 

 

[[Bl...]]

I just read your post magnesi. I get what you are saying.

[[ma...]]

I just read your post magnesi. I get what you are saying.

 

 

Of course you should contribute, you are a great member of this thread! Anyone can make blunders, you can, I can, and we will grow by discussing things. I see it as a sort of dialectics

[[be...]]

Maybe it’s just me. My father, as I mentioned, was a horrible narcissist and a nasty drunk who abused us five kids. My mother pretended everything was okay. But I grew up thinking that every family was like this and it was completely normal. It was only when I got older did a neighbor ask me how I was doing, and felt my father needed alcohol help. I told her I felt this was normal, and she said it was most definitely not. That my father had serious problems that he projected on the kids. What a wake up call. I was then old enough to spend most nights on the couch of my best friend. Then the true relief came was I was big enough to take on my father and told him if he doesn’t leave us alone I was going to call the police. He never bothered me after that. Coward.

[[ma...]]

Maybe it’s just me. My father, as I mentioned, was a horrible narcissist and a nasty drunk who abused us five kids. My mother pretended everything was okay. But I grew up thinking that every family was like this and it was completely normal. It was only when I got older did a neighbor ask me how I was doing, and felt my father needed alcohol help. I told her I felt this was normal, and she said it was most definitely not. That my father had serious problems that he projected on the kids. What a wake up call. I was then old enough to spend most nights on the couch of my best friend. Then the true relief came was I was big enough to take on my father and told him if he doesn’t leave us alone I was going to call the police. He never bothered me after that. Coward.

 

How old were you when you realized it benzogirl? I remember when I was a teenager I once met the mother of a high school classmate of mine in a clothing store. She was looking for trousers for her daughter and asked if I thought she would like one pair. That moment I realized that something as simple as that would be completely strange in our family. My mother would never bother to buy me a piece of clothing, much less worry about finding something I liked. There were a few episodes like this one, but a full understanding of what was going on, I only had it recently, when I saw the sick and selfish way my family took care of my younger sister mental illness.

[[be...]]

I think I just entered high school. I recall rarely sleeping at my home during those four years. If dad cane home and first chugged a bottle of Canadian Club, all this kids scattered. Mom just tried to calm him down and paid no attention to us. She still pays no attention to me and told me recently my brother John was her favorite child. This was after spending 12 years being her24/7 caregiver. I can say that I avoid her and even moved 600 miles away to be rid of her and John...

[[Ma...]]

I do not know what the correct diagnosis for both of my parents would be and its not important anyway. I almost every day get a reminder how weird my childhood has been and how wrong it all was. no matter if I am in a supermarket seeing a happy child with the mother and a thought comes up into my mind like "oh, this mother takes care of her child? not the other way?" or lately when I was at my osteopaths office and she is a strong women and told me how she left her husband with 3 kids and I thought "really? one can do that?" in the first second after my adult brain set in and said "you did such a great job woman!"

 

I also cannot understand how it still affects me and my current situation in life that I am always in search for safety and love and end up being a slave with no perspective to escape.

 

what a dark comment. so sorry

today is a bad day.

[[Be...]]

Bets, that's a shame you've had what sounds like unloving parents.  My mother wasn't loving to me, but I've made peace with her now even though I don't visit her anymore.  I do know deep inside she does love me though.

[[Es...]]

I think I just entered high school. I recall rarely sleeping at my home during those four years. If dad cane home and first chugged a bottle of Canadian Club, all this kids scattered. Mom just tried to calm him down and paid no attention to us. She still pays no attention to me and told me recently my brother John was her favorite child. This was after spending 12 years being her24/7 caregiver. I can say that I avoid her and even moved 600 miles away to be rid of her and John...

 

Thank you so much for sharing, Bets. I know how difficult for you it must be. But I firmly believe it will help you heal. I've been following this thread since the beginning. I'm grateful to every single person here for their contribution. And mostly to Magnesi for having started it and keeping it up.

 

The fact that I quit posting here for some time proves how much work I still have to do in order to heal from the PTSD. Resulting from having been brought up in a dysfunctional family. I know I can only heal to a certain degree. I will never free myself completely from the trauma. But I believe I'm doing it whenever I find the courage to write about it.

[[be...]]

:smitten:

[[Es...]]

I have known you for so many years, Betsy. I will always wish you well.

 

I missed you when you left BB. I follow your posts here whenever I can.

 

This site and this thread will help us keep going

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[va...]]

I do not know what the correct diagnosis for both of my parents would be and its not important anyway. I almost every day get a reminder how weird my childhood has been and how wrong it all was. no matter if I am in a supermarket seeing a happy child with the mother and a thought comes up into my mind like "oh, this mother takes care of her child? not the other way?" or lately when I was at my osteopaths office and she is a strong women and told me how she left her husband with 3 kids and I thought "really? one can do that?" in the first second after my adult brain set in and said "you did such a great job woman!"

 

I also cannot understand how it still affects me and my current situation in life that I am always in search for safety and love and end up being a slave with no perspective to escape.

 

what a dark comment. so sorry

today is a bad day.

 

Marigold my life is the same. I live with this permanent sadness which is a side effect of being born to two people who were completely unable to give a damn about anything but themselves, and one being a sadist who thrives on destroying his own child. It's a miracle I'm alive and not in a psych ward. My therapist said most people would've killed themselves. And then all the trauma in my adult life as a consequence of being completely alone in the world and being raised with no guidance from normal people teaching me what's normal. Now, when my bwd crash occurred, I've come to terms with "mother" as being completely alone with my daughter was scary, and I've gone NC with narcopath "father". It was too much even to look at his face.

[[Es...]]

Hey Val. I can relate. Most therapists/pdocs/friends who know - cannot believe that I have survived. I cannot believe it either.

 

It's really cool that you no longer have to see your narcopath father for those horrid lunches. I remember that they were so traumatic.

 

After I somehow managed to share a bit about my Thursday here on BB, my physical symptoms became less intense. I had no relief whatsoever from the medication. I was suffering so much. Physically. After I wrote on BB, I was even able to cry. My feelings had been totally blocked before.

 

I went through the meeting with Mother on Thursday and blew up everything. I mean I wasn't able to stay Grey Rock. She could see how upset and anxious I was. She seems to get some kind of satisfaction from seeing me nervous. It makes her calm and cheerful.

 

I wrote about the meeting in "Begood's Village", as I feel the most safe there. I don't even have the energy to repeat it all again, so I may just do a "copy/paste" from her blog. I cannot sleep and I'm barely able to think. I was actually waiting for you to log into BB. So funny. Here is what I had posted earlier:

 

"I saw Mother on Thursday. It was a nightmare. I think I will need several days to recover. I'm actually seeing her next Wednesday again. I'm afraid it can make me deteriorate a lot.

 

I'm feeling very weak. I'm not sure if it helps to share. My Grey Rock method failed completely. I let her see how much she had upset me. And that made her even more difficult to be around. She loves to make people mad with her rant. I mean two of her family members.

 

Every second phrase from her is an attack for me. She's the same way with Father. The comparisons and envy never stop. I'm wondering if the envy will stop when I'm dead. Cause I'm not far away from it. Which she doesn't seem to realize. For her, I'm in perfect health.

 

She is not a bad person. It's just impossible for me to be around her without getting a nervous breakdown. She can be funny and say interesting things. But she is constantly in this "attack" mode. Oh well, it's all severe NPD, what can I say.

 

I'm usually anxious a few days before meeting her. Then need a few more days to unwind. I hate to say anything negative about her. I feel guilty. Also uncomfortable with the thought I could be judged for sharing. It is all very difficult.

 

I know I have the right to share. I'm feeling terribly sick. I also got sick physically. My immune system collapsed and I have to take a medication. It doesn't make me feel much better. I think stress weakens the immune system[...]"

[[va...]]

Estee I'm so sorry you went through this. You say she's not a bad person. I think they are bad people. What kind of person gets high on destroying their child? They are monsters. Have you watched the YouTube video where meredith miller interviews dr George Simon? On the topic "in sheep's clothing". Enough of this "there's no bad people". I'm a mother, I'm not perfect but I could never hurt my daughter and then fell good about it! That's pure evil. The same with all this forgiveness BS. I think telling people that they are less than me because I forgave and you didn't, should be completely banned in these groups. In fact it is forbidden to say that in my fb groups. Thank God there are mods there who know about this. That's why I'm so reluctant to share here. I hope you can stop seeing this "not bad person" for a while. I'm done with the weekly lunches for a while, probably for good. Maybe that awful lunch I had was a blessing after all. Take a break Estee, a few months. But if you're seeing her for financial reasons you go and get that money. She owes you, for destroying you when she was given a child to bring her up, not down. I love you Estee.

[[Es...]]

Valiumnomore, bwd is an excellent analogy. Most people think we are crazy when we try to explain that we are so sick because of a drug that so many people take, and that doctors are irresponsible and don’t know how to get us out of it. The same happens with narcissistic abuse, especially when it came from our own parents. First because many of the narcissistic parents convinced everyone around that we were the bad ones and they were the victims. And also because for society parental love is taken for granted. But the same happens with the competence of doctors, so perhaps a few more people here at BB will be able to get what we say.

 

BlueRose, talking about levels of abuse that way usually implies (and is interpreted by many ACONs as meaning) that some people "were not abused enough" to be able to complain. But abuse is like cancer, we shouldn't minimize it. Stage II pancreatic cancer can be much more harmful than stage III breast cancer. And it also depends on genetics, the overall health condition, the range of treatments available, the way the patient reacts, etc. We simply don't know, cancer is always bad and can kill you.

 

But I realized that you didn't mean to minimize. I am also far from being a perfect mother, in part because as an ACON I never had a good maternal reference. And also because I only realized this dynamics and what it meant very late, so I repeated some negative behaviors during my daughters' childhood. I'm trying to accept that and correct as much as possible now.

 

Marygold, count on me! Here are some suggestions https://www.tripstodiscover.com/18-of-the-best-places-to-spend-christmas-on-the-beach/12/, they all look fantastic, except the one where we may run into a pig in the sea

 

Estee, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to avoid Christmas with nfamily this year already. I'm still processing things and I don't want to impose it on my daughters suddenly because they are not children anymore, and they don't have the same experience as I have with their aunts and grandmother. I tried not to hide things from them but this is not easy to understand. I feel it would be more constructive to try to set clear boundaries with my nmother and siblings (no fights, no drama, no badmouthing, etc.). I'll make it clear to everyone that we want to have a peaceful Christmas evening. So if things go wrong, which, you are right, is very likely to happen, everyone will understand better why, and it will be easier to make a joint decision for next year. There is also the possibility that they take offense and decide to not show up at all, but that's up to them. Or that things go really wrong and I have to ask some people to leave, which will be very unpleasant. But I feel I have no choice. It's a loose-loose situation

 

Yes, lack of communication was the main problem in our families of origin. Including ignoring people, triangulation, denying reality, taking offense, refusing to discuss things rationally. I became allergic to all this. Thanks for helping avoiding it here

 

Turtle, your husband is lucky to have you and that you try to help him (by understanding him you already help). You are not obliged to fix his relationship with his mother or to put up with her frustration. Let him do it when he is ready. It will help him heal. As I understand, he doesn't answer her calls and so she calls you instead asking why. Couldn't you tell her, polite but directly, that you don't know why he doesn't answer? If she insists on talking about him, you can use the grey rock method https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6158/gray-rock-method-dealing-narcissist/ 

 

Wildflower, I'm sorry if I missed one of your posts. Could you please tell me know which one was it? I'm sure it was not intentional because I respect and value your contribution, on this and other threads. But sometimes I'm too depressed to write, especially in English which requires greater effort and about complex issues like those of this thread. It could have been the case. I'm tapering the antidepressant and some days I can't literally get up from bed. I even get self-harm ideas, they just pop in my mind, it's heavy.

 

I feel so much your suffering, no child should have to go through something like that, it's very sad and it must have been very frightening and confusing I also fear to hurt my own family with my unresolved issues. But the fact that we worry and are giving them unconditional love means that at least they won’t be subjected to the same kind of abuse. They will just have imperfect parents that love them.

 

You are right, Magnesi. The NPD parents are very good at turning all the family members against us. In my case, this is especially true for Mother. I guess Father is so self-absorbed that he barely notices what's going on around him. He's totally controlled by Mother, in every respect. Her rant causes these attacks of fury he has. But he was never physically violent against her. Only against me. And against my Kitty. Once.

 

We don't have to be perfect as parents, if we have kids. But it's important to realize the narc traits we could have and work on them.

 

I'm quite worried about this Christmas you are planning to organize. Maybe it would be less traumatic to just go to their place. You are already quite vulnerable from the AD taper. I'm scared that the drama could get even worse if you invite them to your home.

 

I put some of your words in Bold. As I think they make so much sense.

 

The past dynamics on this thread also show that some of us used similar strategies like those we found helpful in our dysfunctional families. Me included. Yes, ignoring is a good strategy. Also triangulation. Anything that would allow to avoid communicating in a respectful, assertive manner. Cause it's impossible when dealing with an NPD person.

 

Yes, sometimes we don't even ignore others on purpose. But we will forever feel ignored. As this is how we felt growing up in our dysfunctional families of origin.

 

I appreciate Everyone's contributions so much. Thank you, Turtle. It's great that your NPD MIL wasn't able to destroy your marriage.