Are Mental Disorders Brain Disorders? Discuss!

[[Aj...]]

So, was just reading this:

 

http://eiko-fried.com/all-mental-disorders-are-brain-disorders-not/

 

And wondering how it relates to how we think about what happens in withdrawal and for me how it relates to having an illness that does not have a specific bio-medical test etc.

 

 

Thought others might be interesting in having a broad discussion about it all.

[Guest [sa...]]

I think that what is deemed "Mental disorders" are simply reactions from the organism and the mind (stress, trauma) or like a chemical reaction (low sugar, hypothyroidsm, etc...) However i don't think depression is a mental disorder. Life is pain.

[[Eu...]]

I believe it was Hoffsedter (sp) in "The Mind's I" that put this proposition forward, paraphrased of course.

 

Which statement sounds true?

 

"I have a brain"

 

        or

 

"I am a brain"

 

I have no diagnosis for being on the spectrum but persons observed I have a particular problem with language in social interactions.

So, when I hear for instance, the word disease I feel compelled to nail down what a person means - a specific biological aliment or are they just not at ease (not excluding that that their disease is causing them disease). 

 

So it goes with the word disorder. Take the case of post traumatic stress disorder PTSD,  one can call it that as an identifier or label, or can carry post traumatic stress and form time to time because they are exposed to unpleasant stimuli become disordered in there regulation of that post traumatic stress. 

 

So, do our brains become disordered sometimes most definitely, but is it different when the propensity of how often brains dysfunction individually that we end up telling a person, "you have a brain disorder"?

 

It seems as if the "experts" leave it up to statistics that can mean so much across populations and so little in a persons life. Add the non-availability of a definitive test at this time and we join the endless lists of similar debates.

 

Do we then say "let's put efforts into getting that answer and do no harm" or do we say, " alleviate the pain and suffering because, whether the person cannot be proved to have this un-testable illness, we are tacitly allowing harm". 

[[Aj...]]

I have a copy of that somewhere. Haven’t read since Uni. Did a philosophy degree.

 

I used to think ‘I have a brain’ but over the years my position had changed and then withdrawal has made it very clear that that is an illusion and in fact ‘I am a brain’’.

 

I have written many words in the past about reality being ‘mediated’ etc but I am now experiencing what that truly means, All my senses are severely derranged and, as a result, ‘reality’ has a disturbing and uncanny otherness.

 

Even the weight and sense of solidity of  objects has changed - so that is clearly a property of consciousness in a far more profound way than I had previously appreciated.

 

Yes, we are never in touch with ‘things in themselves’ as Kant called them but to pick up a jumper or a blanket and find it entirely lacking in substance and that the nature of it’s substantive qualities is entirely a matter of perception and that that perception can change so profoundly makes it quite clear that not only am ‘I’ brain but my ‘world’ is too. That ‘my’ world is entirely a product of my brain states.

 

Also my experience of the internal perception of my body as ‘solid’, ‘real’ etc is entirely a product of my perception. It is so altered in withdrawal I no longer feel my muscles are ‘mine’.

 

 

 

It is interesting that you hear disease/dis-ease. Again since withdrawal I find I do a lot more of that. As if the ‘ease’ of the world and language has been disrupted.

 

Along with severe sensory disturbance including hyperacusis and fear of paper, vegetables etc I feel as if there is distinct overlap with withdrawal symptoms and sensory processing in autistic spectrum disorders.

 

As far as treating something as an ‘illness’ goes that is surely a matter of distress and duration.

 

I can’t think clearly about any of this atm so will come back to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

I believe all mental illnesses are brain disorders.  SPECT scans of those with mental illness show many abnormalities.

[[Lo...]]

I used to believe that what we call mental illness is genuine. But being older, and understanding things more, I think that many of the so-called mental illnesses have substance etiology, whether psychiatric or otherwise.

[[Aj...]]

I believe all mental illnesses are brain disorders.  SPECT scans of those with mental illness show many abnormalities.

 

Yes, that is my understanding but there are some intelligent people having this argument so I am intrigued by how they characterise ‘mental’. They don’t seem to be Cartesians.

[[Lo...]]

I used to believe that what we call mental illness is genuine. But being older, and understanding things more, I think that many of the so-called mental illnesses have substance etiology, whether psychiatric or otherwise.

 

I think it's pretty simple sometimes. Take a healthy 20 year old, give him a combination of Effexor and Klonopin for about 6 months, stop both by force, tell him he has a bipolar disorder and further terrify him by showing "abnormal" brain scans of people having bipolar disorder and have a therapist convince him to take medications for that. Continue therapy for a year. Have therapist proclaim that bipolar is in remission, halve the patient dosage by 50%. Upon the emergence of withdrawal symptoms, diagnose him as having a mixed Bipolar II mania. Prescribe an atypical antipsychotic. And it goes on and on.....

[[Rx...]]

Note reality check at bottom of article:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-brain-scans-diagnose-mental-illness/

[[Be...]]

I think most mental illnesses are caused by bad genes.  Some people develop anxiety and panic problems who have never taken drugs.  Schizophrenia, anxiety, depression and even dementia runs in families.  My dad was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder when he was older and developed early onset dementia too when he was in his fifties.  I've got the same stuff going on, but I also have a history of problems with drugs.

[[Eu...]]

Well, that heads us back to the whole nature/nurture type answer.

[[Lo...]]

I remember reading a lot about mental disorders when I was very young. There was a lot of trauma in the household, and I felt like I was walking on the eggshells a lot and felt anxious. However, I have mostly been exposed to the mainstream model of mental health and treatment. It's not until much later that I have seen works of people who have present facts that long term usage of psychiatric medications tends to worsen outcomes.

 

After I joined here, it dawned on me that a discussion about the dangers of benzos and other psychiatric drugs can never really be 100% full-disclosure because of so many people on them, or off of them and suffering with after-effects. It's hard to talk about these things. It really is. 

[[Rx...]]

On genes:  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201604/what-you-need-know-about-the-genetics-mental-disorders

 

I took a DNA test for medication compatability.  Dead wrong in too many ways.  I think some behavior may be learned from relatives as well.

 

IMO, regardless of science, psychiatric diagnoses will always be subjective. 

[[Lo...]]

I attest to that. Some behavior can definitely be learned from relatives.

[[Lo...]]

And a lot of ideas and concepts can be picked up from books, too. Books written by medical doctors about mental disorders can have profound influence on young brains.

 

There may be an element of mainstream-narrative, society influenced "self-fulfilling prophecy" in all this. The narrative is of course encouraged by those unable or unwilling to see the alternative viewpoints.

 

1) Young person is anxious

2) He starts reading books about neurosis, psychosis, etc.

3) He start reading about anxiety, panic attacks, depression

4) He reads books from doctors, talking about treatments of those conditions, mostly including AD's and tranquilizers

5) Young person takes medications willingly, according to what he has been told

6) Years go by and then this not as young person tries to stop an antidepressant too abruptly. Doctor tells him he'll

    have to be on it for the rest of his life

7) He begrudgingly resumes it

8 ) Anti-depressant not doing its job anymore. The person remembers how tranquilizers helped in the past 

9) A person gets introduced to Ativan. Apparently, this tranquilizer seems different. It really helps with panic, but the

    anxiety keeps going up

10) After a while, the fear is worse than ever, and the Ativan can no longer be stopped

11) Emergency room visits, panic attacks, horrible pain, and everything gets dismissed as "anxiety"

12) The person calls a helpline. It all gets blamed on mental illness.

 

 

 

 

[[Te...]]

Well, that heads us back to the whole nature/nurture type answer.

 

I'm interested in this subject as it deals with mental disorders.

 

There's learned behavior (what we see parents do or take to cope with stress), there are bad eating habits that may have started in the family (which can lead to anger, depression, etc.), there's bad parenting, and there's good parenting.

 

If a person comes from a family of abusers, either abusing others or self by overeating, smoking, drinking, doing drugs, cutting, etc., unless they change, that person is going to have a very difficult time getting ahead in school and being in the world in general. Their choices may not be good ones. If they're abused by the parents or there is absent parenting, a person could be more prone to mental instability.

 

On the other hand, if there is a lot of nurturing, really listening to the child and helping the child to find a passion in life, where education is important, I think the chances are good that that person, although they may go through difficult times, will be able to have supporting parents who aren't critical and help them make good choices in life. Parenting is a lifelong project, not just when the child is at home.

 

Anyway, I could go on and on. Anyone care to comment?

 

I think it's a combination of nature and nurture, just like intelligence.

[[Lo...]]

Thanks, Terry. So much truth in your post.

[[Be...]]

My mother wasn't affectionate when I was a child and never hugged me or told me she loved me and could be cruel and she hit me alot and ignored me.  I became very sensitive then and somewhat shy and introverted and couldn't make good connections with others. 

[[Rx...]]

My mother wasn't affectionate when I was a child and never hugged me or told me she loved me and could be cruel and she hit me alot and ignored me.  I became very sensitive then and somewhat shy and introverted and couldn't make good connections with others.

 

That's horrible, Becks.  So sorry to read this.

[[Rx...]]

And re learned behavior from relatives.  It's up to the individual to decide if they want to carry the torch of damaging behavior.  Behavior including coping skills, etc.

[[Eu...]]

And re learned behavior from relatives.  It's up to the individual to decide if they want to carry the torch of damaging behavior.  Behavior including coping skills, etc.

That is true, however, some of the behaviors have to be unlearned and then, new behaviors need to be learned, tried, improved upon, and become part of our intrinsic core or "tool box" of new behaviors. That is  an often tall order for developing young ones in a less than optimal environment with limited self awareness and no positive role models to tackle.

Not that ever it is an excuse to perpetuate poor behavior forward; yet, it bears acknowledgement.

[[Rx...]]

And re learned behavior from relatives.  It's up to the individual to decide if they want to carry the torch of damaging behavior.  Behavior including coping skills, etc.

That is true, however, some of the behaviors have to be unlearned and then, new behaviors need to be learned, tried, improved upon, and become part of our intrinsic core or "tool box" of new behaviors. That is  an often tall order for developing young ones in a less than optimal environment with limited self awareness and no positive role models to tackle.

Not that ever it is an excuse to perpetuate poor behavior forward; yet, it bears acknowledgement.

 

And hopefully, little children will make the right decisions when capable.

[[Be...]]

I was ok in life until drugs damaged my body and brain.  Now I'm screwed.