Logical fallacies

[[Ph...]]

I've always been interested in how people construct and prop up their arguments with various logical fallacies.  Here's an interesting piece that breaks it all down and describes the tricks and fallacies we all use to support our cherished biases.  Study up on this list and you'll quickly see what your next argument opponent is up to.

 

https://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logical-fallacies

 

 

[Guest [Sk...]]

  thanks  very interesting 

[[Ha...]]

I've always been interested in how people construct and prop up their arguments with various logical fallacies.  Here's an interesting piece that breaks it all down and describes the tricks and fallacies we all use to support our cherished biases.  Study up on this list and you'll quickly see what your next argument opponent is up to.

  Great article!!! Seen quite a few examples in a couple of interesting threads recently, but  decided to take the 5th (I'm not even an American, but a very handy amendment!). I'm the cowardly lion, not the straw man  Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!!  You might enjoy this? 

    Harmonee

[Guest [sa...]]

Arguments are prone to fallacies and rhetoric, because when we are emotionally invested we want to "win" at all costs. But usually, i know that something right, but don't know how to explain it, so i at least try to direct the adversary to find the truth.

 

Usually when we are alone, we tend to have that spot-on logic that explains everything but when other people wrong us we feel attacked and it's hard to explain.

[[Ph...]]

Arguments are prone to fallacies and rhetoric, because when we are emotionally invested we want to "win" at all costs. But usually, i know that something right, but don't know how to explain it, so i at least try to direct the adversary to find the truth.

 

Usually when we are alone, we tend to have that spot-on logic that explains everything but when other people wrong us we feel attacked and it's hard to explain.

 

Right, savinghope.  Thing is, people are always emotionally invested to some degree.  Even when they're alone.  When I sit alone and ponder some conflict I'm having with another person (sister-in-law is high on that list), I often find myself engaging in at least one of these logical fallacies.  And maybe some other fallacies that aren't even on the list!  Our higher brains tend to manufacture white lies to comfort our lower brains (emotional centers).

[[Ph...]]

I've always been interested in how people construct and prop up their arguments with various logical fallacies.  Here's an interesting piece that breaks it all down and describes the tricks and fallacies we all use to support our cherished biases.  Study up on this list and you'll quickly see what your next argument opponent is up to.

  Great article!!! Seen quite a few examples in a couple of interesting threads recently, but  decided to take the 5th (I'm not even an American, but a very handy amendment!). I'm the cowardly lion, not the straw man  Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!!  You might enjoy this? 

  Harmonee

 

Hey, great video there, Harmonee.  Better than the article I linked to.  Thanks!  What?  Pirates have nothing to do with climate change?  Nonsense!

[[Ha...]]

Hey, great video there, Harmonee.  Better than the article I linked to.  Thanks!  What?  Pirates have nothing to do with climate change?  Nonsense!

 

Shock-horror!! Do I detect a little sarcasm there?  What will it take to convince you PhotoBug?  Here's some raw data to "prove" it  I believe the term is "Confirmation Bias"? You couldn't possibly think this very important chart could be anything but genuine, could you?  Cherry picking, and conveniently confusing simultaneity for causation are wonderful tools   Harmonee

 

 

[[Ph...]]

Whoa.  I think I've just hit the logical fallacy motherlode!

 

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#well

 

Tons of gems here, such as...

 

Euphemism:

the use of words that sound better. The lab rat wasn't killed, it was sacrificed. Mass murder wasn't genocide, it was ethnic cleansing. The death of innocent bystanders is collateral damage. Microsoft doesn't find bugs, or problems, or security vulnerabilities: they just discover an issue with a piece of software.

This is related to Argument By Emotive Language, since the effect is to make a concept emotionally palatable.

 

Weasel Wording:

this is very much like Euphemism, except that the word changes are done to claim a new, different concept rather than soften the old concept. For example, an American President may not legally conduct a war without a declaration of Congress. So, various Presidents have conducted "police actions", "armed incursions", "protective reaction strikes," "pacification," "safeguarding American interests," and a wide variety of "operations". Similarly, War Departments have become Departments of Defense, and untested medicines have become alternative medicines. The book "1984" has some particularly good examples.

 

(Our poor old dog Spot.  We had to put him to sleep.)  Haha...sure.

 

 

[[Ha...]]

Oh Yes, your link is fabulous Photobug! Thank you  Once you start on logical fallacies, it's difficult to look back!! I am in a "fortunate" position of receiving weekly emails from my daughter's ex. They always begin with a rhetorical question, then he indulges himself by writing 15 or more (run-on) paragraphs of  didactic rubbish. He concludes by stating "I will not enter into any correspondence over this.  There is simply nothing to discuss!" To ensure we "get it" he always uses his legal position (has his own legal practice) in his signature. Lol, really?

 

After picking yourself up from being in a complete state of cognitive dissidence (lol, at times a catatonic state) and choose to read his rant from an objective vantage point, I see his BS is absolutely full of logical fallacies. Instead of getting sucked into his tirade of abuse, I'm now dissecting it so I can have a good belly laugh.  Harmonee

[[Ph...]]

Oh Yes, your link is fabulous Photobug! Thank you  Once you start on logical fallacies, it's difficult to look back!! I am in a "fortunate" position of receiving weekly emails from my daughter's ex. They always begin with a rhetorical question, then he indulges himself by writing 15 or more (run-on) paragraphs of  didactic rubbish. He concludes by stating "I will not enter into any correspondence over this.  There is simply nothing to discuss!" To ensure we "get it" he always uses his legal position (has his own legal practice) in his signature. Lol, really?

 

After picking yourself up from being in a complete state of cognitive dissidence (lol, at times a catatonic state) and choose to read his rant from an objective vantage point, I see his BS is absolutely full of logical fallacies. Instead of getting sucked into his tirade of abuse, I'm now dissecting it so I can have a good belly laugh.  Harmonee

 

Damn!  I'm almost afraid to speak now, lest I utter yet another fallacy.  Developing a fallacy phobia....    You realize you could drive an adversary absolutely insane with this stuff, right?  "Oops, sorry, that's a fallacy.  Oops, there you ago again, that's another fallacy, etc. etc."  If you could somehow be confined with your daughter's ex in a room for a few hours, you'd reduce him to a weeping, grovelling heap.  The irony is rich, considering that most legal arguments by attorneys are based entirely on manipulative fallacy.  Yes? 

[[Ha...]]

 

Damn!  I'm almost afraid to speak now, lest I utter yet another fallacy.  Developing a fallacy phobia....    You realize you could drive an adversary absolutely insane with this stuff, right?  "Oops, sorry, that's a fallacy.  Oops, there you ago again, that's another fallacy, etc. etc."  If you could somehow be confined with your daughter's ex in a room for a few hours, you'd reduce him to a weeping, grovelling heap.  The irony is rich, considering that most legal arguments by attorneys are based entirely on manipulative fallacy.  Yes?

  Oh yes Photobug "Be afraid, be very afraid!"  However put your logical fallacy phobia aside, you can relax (Your El Dorado of logical fallacies has provided me a lifetime of reading/studying up to do yet) but thus far I cannot find a single error in your reasoning  (drat!)  . You are correct on all counts and a counter argument cannot be established  Funny you should say if I had the opportunity to be confined in a room with my daughter's ex-partner for a few hours, I'd reduce him to a weeping, grovelling heap.  He's 7' tall, I'm 5'3"; the best he could do is tread on me 

 

Ironically, my daughter's barrister asked me if I would be willing to do just that, engage in a room alone with him (albeit only a half hour, not hours). Initially the very thought terrified me until I found out that the idea was the barristers and not his; so I gleefully agreed  . Don't get me wrong, I am not usually very brave but I was very familiar with the nature of the beast; I knew he would decline and he did! Shows the caliber of the "man" and his level of legal ability!  He cannot win (or even work  ) his way out of a paper bag, but I will give him credit in that he is very empowered hiding behind his PC, and his entourage of top-end legal representatives    Whoops, did I just slip out an ad hominem? 

[[Aj...]]

I had to write essays on this stuff for my degree 30 odd years ago. Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten it all... And having read the link I’ve forgotten it all again because my brain is no longer capable of retaining information...

 

My favorite specific example of widespread fallacious reasoning is The Just World Fallacy : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

 

It is such a pernious assumption and is spread so widely through societies of all kinds.

 

It is basically the same as Karma - a very cruel idea if you think about it.

 

If someone is suffering from illness  Karma basically blames that person for their suffering.

 

We do it to ourselves as well when we ask ‘what did I do to deserve this?’

 

 

 

I designated myself as a Pastafarian on the UK Census form. May his Noodly Highness prevail....

 

 

 

[[Ph...]]

I had to write essays on this stuff for my degree 30 odd years ago. Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten it all... And having read the link I’ve forgotten it all again because my brain is no longer capable of retaining information...

 

My favorite specific example of widespread fallacious reasoning is The Just World Fallacy : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

 

It is such a pernious assumption and is spread so widely through societies of all kinds.

 

It is basically the same as Karma - a very cruel idea if you think about it.

 

If someone is suffering from illness  Karma basically blames that person for their suffering.

 

We do it to ourselves as well when we ask ‘what did I do to deserve this?’

 

 

 

I designated myself as a Pastafarian on the UK Census form. May his Noodly Highness prevail....

 

Ajusta, thanks for the link to the Just World Delusion discussion.  Wow, thought-provoking stuff!  Well, I guess we're all here at Benzo Buddies because our chickens have come home to roost and we're getting our just deserts, paying the price for our past misdeeds and mistakes!  Yes, thrash me, punish me, I have it coming.  Then all will be right with the world.

 

So many implications, mind-bending.  But wait, it says here that the Just World belief may actually be good for our mental health!

 

"Researchers are actively exploring the reasons why the belief in a just world might have this relationship to mental health; it has been suggested that such beliefs could be a personal resource or coping strategy that buffers stress associated with daily life and with traumatic events."

 

I'm off to Bed, Bath and Beyond to find a proper-fitting colander!

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11998736/Pastafarian-wins-right-to-wear-colander-on-head-in-driving-licence-photo.html

 

 

 

[[Ph...]]

 

Damn!  I'm almost afraid to speak now, lest I utter yet another fallacy.  Developing a fallacy phobia....    You realize you could drive an adversary absolutely insane with this stuff, right?  "Oops, sorry, that's a fallacy.  Oops, there you ago again, that's another fallacy, etc. etc."  If you could somehow be confined with your daughter's ex in a room for a few hours, you'd reduce him to a weeping, grovelling heap.  The irony is rich, considering that most legal arguments by attorneys are based entirely on manipulative fallacy.  Yes?

  Oh yes Photobug "Be afraid, be very afraid!"  However put your logical fallacy phobia aside, you can relax (Your El Dorado of logical fallacies has provided me a lifetime of reading/studying up to do yet) but thus far I cannot find a single error in your reasoning  (drat!)  . You are correct on all counts and a counter argument cannot be established  Funny you should say if I had the opportunity to be confined in a room with my daughter's ex-partner for a few hours, I'd reduce him to a weeping, grovelling heap.  He's 7' tall, I'm 5'3"; the best he could do is tread on me 

 

Ironically, my daughter's barrister asked me if I would be willing to do just that, engage in a room alone with him (albeit only a half hour, not hours). Initially the very thought terrified me until I found out that the idea was the barristers and not his; so I gleefully agreed  . Don't get me wrong, I am not usually very brave but I was very familiar with the nature of the beast; I knew he would decline and he did! Shows the caliber of the "man" and his level of legal ability!  He cannot win (or even work  ) his way out of a paper bag, but I will give him credit in that he is very empowered hiding behind his PC, and his entourage of top-end legal representatives    Whoops, did I just slip out an ad hominem? 

 

Why stop there?  When you have him down, kick him with some of these!  (Don't feel badly about it, you're just reinforcing the Just World hypothesis.  It'll be good for you.)

 

 

"Thou art a boil, a plague sore, an embossed carbuncle in my corrupted blood." (King Lear, Act 2, Scene 4)

 

Nothing quite like a well-aimed ad hominem...

 

 

[[Aj...]]

That piece in The Tekegragh is fantastic! Not a sentence I utter often being a confirmed Guardian reading sop!

 

Do you have a link for the quote about mental health and Just World Fallacy?

 

I’d be interested to see who that reasearch is by and how they arrived at that conclusion.

[[Ph...]]

That piece in The Tekegragh is fantastic! Not a sentence I utter often being a confirmed Guardian reading sop!

 

Do you have a link for the quote about mental health and Just World Fallacy?

 

I’d be interested to see who that reasearch is by and how they arrived at that conclusion.

 

If you google "the justice motive as a personal resource" you'll see quite a few results.  Here's a link to the book that is cited by the Wikipedia article:  (Scroll down to the section entitled "BJW as a Positive Illusion."  This gets to the core of your question.)

 

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Justice_Motive_as_a_Personal_Resourc.html?id=7z4BBQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

This also offers some insights into the Just World's effect on mental health:

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-just-world-phenomenon-2795304

 

Thanks again, Ajusta. 

 

[[Aj...]]

Ta!

 

Indeed - People underestimate the part that luck plays in life.Those who are fortunate often  over estimate their own hard-work and contribution and under estimate the role that luck has played.

 

People like the idea that we have complete control over what happens to them. It makes them feel safe.

 

Aristotle has some stuff to say on that.

 

I would argue that it also prevents or diminishes empathy.

 

 

Just read the second link which says what I’ve just said...D’oh!

 

 

[[Ha...]]

My favorite specific example of widespread fallacious reasoning is The Just World Fallacy : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

 

It is such a pernious assumption and is spread so widely through societies of all kinds.

 

It is basically the same as Karma - a very cruel idea if you think about it.

 

If someone is suffering from illness  Karma basically blames that person for their suffering.

 

We do it to ourselves as well when we ask ‘what did I do to deserve this?’

It's a little bit like the desperate "need" for humans to ensure a sense of certainty. Almost like they are more comfortable in abiding by and accepting a rule book rather than come to terms with "reality"? That being they actually need to take on some personal responsibility, rather than hiding behind a specific belief system for example. Life dishes out what it dishes out; bad and good happens to everyone (some cop it so much worse than others which is very sad but a fact of life). IMHO such hypothesis are simplistic and ignorant views based on unconscious awareness (ig-norance). The "what did I do do to deserve this?" is a natural thought, but when rationalized we conclude (hopefully), "I did nothing to deserve this!, it's the luck of the draw".

 

I designated myself as a Pastafarian on the UK Census form. May his Noodly Highness prevail....

Oh you crack me up Ajusta!! I will be keen to fill out my next Census form  But of which faction of Pastafarian do you belong? I mean these days there's the "Gluton Intollerant Pastafarian", the "Vegetarian Pastafarian" and in recent times the "Ramen Pastafarians"    Harmonee

[[Ha...]]

 

Why stop there?  When you have him down, kick him with some of these!  (Don't feel badly about it, you're just reinforcing the Just World hypothesis.  It'll be good for you.)

 

 

"Thou art a boil, a plague sore, an embossed carbuncle in my corrupted blood." (King Lear, Act 2, Scene 4)

 

Nothing quite like a well-aimed ad hominem...

 

 

Oh Photobug, you have given me the best advice I have ever received on how to deal with this " fusty nut with no kernel!"! That video had me so exhausted with laughter, it sent my Pastafarian colander catapulting, which almost knocked the Flying Spaghetti Monster out of the universe!!

 

I have been advised one must at all costs have "no communications" with said "cluster B" personalities as this label comes (somewhat close) to describing this "embossed carbuncle"!

 

The Just World Fallacy can perhaps (in certain exceptions) be helpful as a tool for humorous fantasy (when it comes to this "cream-faced loon  ). A well-aimed ad hominem would be so easy as no aim is required unless I were to consider him a "three-inch fool" 

 

Please feel free to edit 

 

Dear Ex-Partner of long suffering daughter,

 

Methinks thou art a general offence, and every man should beat thee. I think thou wast created for men to breathe themselves upon you.

 

I wonder that you will still be talking. Nobody marks you!  I do desire we may be better strangers.

 

Away you moldy rogue, away!

 

Tempt not too much the hatred of my spirit, for I am sick when I do look on thee. You scullion. You rampallian. You fustilarian. I’ll tickle your catastrophe.

 

More of your conversation would infect my brain!!

 

Oh and sending you all that you deserve.

 

With my utmost contempt. Keep in mind, thou art unfit for any place but hell

Harmonee 

 

Shakespearean ad hominems may well be the solution!! Or he could get me locked up in an asylum; he has the connections to do so 

 

Thanks for the belly laugh Photobug. That really tickled my catastrophe!!    Harmonee

[[Aj...]]

Atm I am trying to eat Paleo which is antithetical to the Noodly one at least is respect to diet so it will have to be fake ‘Courgette’ ‘Pasta’farian for now.

 

 

[[Ph...]]

 

Why stop there?  When you have him down, kick him with some of these!  (Don't feel badly about it, you're just reinforcing the Just World hypothesis.  It'll be good for you.)

 

 

"Thou art a boil, a plague sore, an embossed carbuncle in my corrupted blood." (King Lear, Act 2, Scene 4)

 

Nothing quite like a well-aimed ad hominem...

 

 

Oh Photobug, you have given me the best advice I have ever received on how to deal with this " fusty nut with no kernel!"! That video had me so exhausted with laughter, it sent my Pastafarian colander catapulting, which almost knocked the Flying Spaghetti Monster out of the universe!!

 

I have been advised one must at all costs have "no communications" with said "cluster B" personalities as this label comes (somewhat close) to describing this "embossed carbuncle"!

 

The Just World Fallacy can perhaps (in certain exceptions) be helpful as a tool for humorous fantasy (when it comes to this "cream-faced loon  ). A well-aimed ad hominem would be so easy as no aim is required unless I were to consider him a "three-inch fool" 

 

Please feel free to edit 

 

Dear Ex-Partner of long suffering daughter,

 

Methinks thou art a general offence, and every man should beat thee. I think thou wast created for men to breathe themselves upon you.

 

I wonder that you will still be talking. Nobody marks you!  I do desire we may be better strangers.

 

Away you moldy rogue, away!

 

Tempt not too much the hatred of my spirit, for I am sick when I do look on thee. You scullion. You rampallian. You fustilarian. I’ll tickle your catastrophe.

 

More of your conversation would infect my brain!!

 

Oh and sending you all that you deserve.

 

With my utmost contempt. Keep in mind, thou art unfit for any place but hell

Harmonee 

 

Shakespearean ad hominems may well be the solution!! Or he could get me locked up in an asylum; he has the connections to do so 

 

Thanks for the belly laugh Photobug. That really tickled my catastrophe!!    Harmonee

 

Hilarious !!  But in the unlikely event he survives this well-deserved onslaught, end him with this:

 

"Thou art a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver'd, action-taking, whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mungril bitch."

 

And take care not to physically beat him...lest you infect your hands!!  (To paraphrase another nugget from Bill.)

 

 

[[Aj...]]

A most excellent quote!

 

Did you see the recent BBC adaptation? I recorded it but haven’t got around to it yet..

[[Ha...]]

 

 

Hilarious !!  But in the unlikely event he survives this well-deserved onslaught, end him with this:

 

"Thou art a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver'd, action-taking, whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mungril bitch."

 

And take care not to physically beat him...lest you infect your hands!!  (To paraphrase another nugget from Bill.)

Excellent punch line Photobug!!

 

Should I simply write PS? Or just add "And one more thing you honorificabilitudinitatius!, you three inch fool (I refer not to thy height!) Thou art a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound (feet actually), filthy worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver'd, action-taking, whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mungril bitch!! Thou elvish-mark’d, abortive, rooting hog! So as you may have deduced sir, I love thee not! THE END!

 

Might give him reason to agree if I mention "the son and heir of a mungril bitch". He hated his mother, lol as he hates everyone else.

 

Can you believe Shakespeare invented the word honorificabilitudinitatius? I love it!!!! No amount of therapy could have served me better than to plagiarize Shakespeare's logical fallacies!! Shakespeare obviously knew this guy!!    Harmonee

[[Ph...]]

A most excellent quote!

 

Did you see the recent BBC adaptation? I recorded it but haven’t got around to it yet..

 

No, Ajusta, I haven't seen it.  I don't get BBC here.  I don't even own a television, thank goodness.  Is it available on the internet?

[[Ph...]]

 

 

Hilarious !!  But in the unlikely event he survives this well-deserved onslaught, end him with this:

 

"Thou art a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver'd, action-taking, whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mungril bitch."

 

And take care not to physically beat him...lest you infect your hands!!  (To paraphrase another nugget from Bill.)

Excellent punch line Photobug!!

 

Should I simply write PS? Or just add "And one more thing you honorificabilitudinitatius!, you three inch fool (I refer not to thy height!) Thou art a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound (feet actually), filthy worsted-stocking knave; a lily-liver'd, action-taking, whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mungril bitch!! Thou elvish-mark’d, abortive, rooting hog! So as you may have deduced sir, I love thee not! THE END!

 

Might give him reason to agree if I mention "the son and heir of a mungril bitch". He hated his mother, lol as he hates everyone else.

 

Can you believe Shakespeare invented the word honorificabilitudinitatius? I love it!!!! No amount of therapy could have served me better than to plagiarize Shakespeare's logical fallacies!! Shakespeare obviously knew this guy!!    Harmonee

 

Harmonee, is this you?

 

 

I'm the guy in the blue shirt: