Is there a way to reverse the kindling effect?

[[Li...]]

I am going crazy trying to figure out what is going on with me.  23 days ago when I did my reduction from 2.375 mg of Klonopin to 2.25 mg of Klonopin I slept for something like 20 hours.  Now I'm down to 1 to 4 hours per night.  I'm getting myoclonic and hypnic jerks, paranoia, anxiety and tinnitus.  I'm extremely kindled.  Is there any way to reverse the kindling effect?  Is that cut from 2.375 mg to 2.25 mg of Klonopin just way too big?  Maybe I should have stuck with liquid titration although to be honest I forgot how to do liquid titration already?

[[to...]]

no, once you kindle you will always kindle.  I am in the same boat.  Mine kindling is a result of past alcohol abuse

[[Me...]]

How does one know if they're kindled?

[[Je...]]

I am going crazy trying to figure out what is going on with me.  23 days ago when I did my reduction from 2.375 mg of Klonopin to 2.25 mg of Klonopin I slept for something like 20 hours.  Now I'm down to 1 to 4 hours per night.  I'm getting myoclonic and hypnic jerks, paranoia, anxiety and tinnitus.  I'm extremely kindled.  Is there any way to reverse the kindling effect?  Is that cut from 2.375 mg to 2.25 mg of Klonopin just way too big?  Maybe I should have stuck with liquid titration although to be honest I forgot how to do liquid titration already?

 

That is from your cut from 2.375 mg to 2.25 mgs, in my opinion.  I am kindled, also, I believe. I am tapering very slowly to keep almost all symptoms away.

 

 

Good luck to you.

 

Jenny

[[Su...]]

what is kindling and how does one know if your "kindled?"  I hear that referred to on the posts and I think I know what it is, from going back up in dose, but how do you know?  And how does it affect the general taper?

Thanks!

[[no...]]

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

 

 

[[Li...]]

It is unfortunate that there is no way to reverse the kindling effect.  I'm throwing in the towel before I do even more damage to myself.

[[Ma...]]

I think if you forgot how to do taper and cannot getnbackmon this websitento refresh your memory, it is probably time to up your dosage until you feel better, stabilize for awhile , and start it again.  You may also think about the cross over to valium first, then taper.  It is good to have a friend or family member become familiar with calculating and mixing the dose in case you have a bad day.  Remember the whole idea is a very SLOW process where you stop and hold the minute you feel too out of control to function.  You may not feel 100%, and still have some bad effects,  but if you can't function at all you are probably tapering too fast.

[[tn...]]

What is kindling?and how do you know if your kindled?...no one answered Meems question..i would also like to know if thats why im suffering severely since my taper has begun...can anybody explain what kindling is and how do you kindle yourself?

[[Ge...]]

What is kindling?and how do you know if your kindled?...no one answered Meems question..i would also like to know if thats why im suffering severely since my taper has begun...can anybody explain what kindling is and how do you kindle yourself?

 

I would like to know how you know if you are kindled also.. how do you distinguish it from withdrawl?

[[mi...]]

I echo the messages above -- what is kindling?

[Guest [su...]]

When your taper of the drug gets harder or almost impossible after to many relapse if I had understand it right.

[[mi...]]

Thank you! That makes more sense!

[[Ch...]]

Here's what wiki says about kindling:

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures, and death. Withdrawal from GABAergic-acting sedative–hypnotic drugs causes acute GABA-underactivity as well as glutamate overactivity which can lead to sensitization and hyper-excitability of the central nervous system, excito-neurotoxicity, and increasingly profound neuro adaptions.

 

Definition

Kindling refers to the phenomenon of increasingly severe withdrawal symptoms, including an increased risk of seizures, that occurs as a result of repeated withdrawal from alcohol or other sedative–hypnotics with related modes of action. Ethanol (alcohol) has a very similar mechanism of tolerance and withdrawal to benzodiazepines, involving the GABAA receptors , NMDA receptors and AMPA receptors, but the majority of research into kindling has primarily focused on alcohol.[1] An intensification of anxiety and other psychological symptoms of alcohol withdrawal also occurs.

 

 

My guess is that kindling is a strong factor in why most of us here on the forum have such a difficult time withdrawing.  As to whether or not it ever goes away, personally, I don't see that it does.  To my knowledge there isn't any research or other info out there about this.

 

[[tn...]]

Here's what wiki says about kindling:

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures, and death. Withdrawal from GABAergic-acting sedative–hypnotic drugs causes acute GABA-underactivity as well as glutamate overactivity which can lead to sensitization and hyper-excitability of the central nervous system, excito-neurotoxicity, and increasingly profound neuro adaptions.

 

Definition

Kindling refers to the phenomenon of increasingly severe withdrawal symptoms, including an increased risk of seizures, that occurs as a result of repeated withdrawal from alcohol or other sedative–hypnotics with related modes of action. Ethanol (alcohol) has a very similar mechanism of tolerance and withdrawal to benzodiazepines, involving the GABAA receptors , NMDA receptors and AMPA receptors, but the majority of research into kindling has primarily focused on alcohol.[1] An intensification of anxiety and other psychological symptoms of alcohol withdrawal also occurs.

 

 

My guess is that kindling is a strong factor in why most of us here on the forum have such a difficult time withdrawing.  As to whether or not it ever goes away, personally, I don't see that it does.  To my knowledge there isn't any research or other info out there about this.

 

Hi Challis,

 

I have drank alcohol in the past and stopped for years and had no problems..then i started and stopped again never had no withdrawal problems...but with clonazepam i am having major withdrawal problems..does this mean im kindled? and have permanently damaged my brain and cns?

[[Sa...]]

Here's what wiki says about kindling:

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures, and death. Withdrawal from GABAergic-acting sedative–hypnotic drugs causes acute GABA-underactivity as well as glutamate overactivity which can lead to sensitization and hyper-excitability of the central nervous system, excito-neurotoxicity, and increasingly profound neuro adaptions.

 

Definition

Kindling refers to the phenomenon of increasingly severe withdrawal symptoms, including an increased risk of seizures, that occurs as a result of repeated withdrawal from alcohol or other sedative–hypnotics with related modes of action. Ethanol (alcohol) has a very similar mechanism of tolerance and withdrawal to benzodiazepines, involving the GABAA receptors , NMDA receptors and AMPA receptors, but the majority of research into kindling has primarily focused on alcohol.[1] An intensification of anxiety and other psychological symptoms of alcohol withdrawal also occurs.

 

 

My guess is that kindling is a strong factor in why most of us here on the forum have such a difficult time withdrawing.  As to whether or not it ever goes away, personally, I don't see that it does.  To my knowledge there isn't any research or other info out there about this.

 

Hi Challis,

 

I have drank alcohol in the past and stopped for years and had no problems..then i started and stopped again never had no withdrawal problems...but with clonazepam i am having major withdrawal problems..does this mean im kindled? and have permanently damaged my brain and cns?

 

I'm no expert but I haven't seen any evidence that kindling causes permanent damage, just that it usually results in a more intense and elongated withdrawal.

[[Ch...]]

Not

Here's what wiki says about kindling:

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures, and death. Withdrawal from GABAergic-acting sedative–hypnotic drugs causes acute GABA-underactivity as well as glutamate overactivity which can lead to sensitization and hyper-excitability of the central nervous system, excito-neurotoxicity, and increasingly profound neuro adaptions.

 

Definition

Kindling refers to the phenomenon of increasingly severe withdrawal symptoms, including an increased risk of seizures, that occurs as a result of repeated withdrawal from alcohol or other sedative–hypnotics with related modes of action. Ethanol (alcohol) has a very similar mechanism of tolerance and withdrawal to benzodiazepines, involving the GABAA receptors , NMDA receptors and AMPA receptors, but the majority of research into kindling has primarily focused on alcohol.[1] An intensification of anxiety and other psychological symptoms of alcohol withdrawal also occurs.

 

 

My guess is that kindling is a strong factor in why most of us here on the forum have such a difficult time withdrawing.  As to whether or not it ever goes away, personally, I don't see that it does.  To my knowledge there isn't any research or other info out there about this.

 

Hi Challis,

 

I have drank alcohol in the past and stopped for years and had no problems..then i started and stopped again never had no withdrawal problems...but with clonazepam i am having major withdrawal problems..does this mean im kindled? and have permanently damaged my brain and cns?

 

Team members of BenzoBuddies aren't experts, we are simply members who help run the forum, so I'm not an expert.  I base my comments on personal experience, reading five years of posts and every article I can find about this.  So with that in mind, here is my opinion...

 

Kindling refers to the worsening withdrawal process as a result of multiple uses and subsequent withdrawals.  It is important to know in that it would be a considering factor in taking another course of benzodiazepines, but other than that, I would try not to focus too strongly on it.  It is what it is... and your central nervous system will heal.  So far I haven't read about permanent damage, although some people with complicated drug histories seem to sometimes take longer to heal.

[[Ch...]]

That sounds terrible, and very frightening.

 

It sounds as if we may never really recover. 

[[Re...]]

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

 

 

I'm one of the short term users who tapered too quickly.  I'm doing better this last week and it seems my windows are longer/better and the waves are shorter/less severe now.  But the thing I've learned is that there is too much risk with a fast taper of any long half-life benzodiazepines.  By the time the withdrawal effect hits, you may have cut several more times in the meantime and that makes it difficult to rationally manage the taper.

 

I've been feeling enough of an improvement to continue tapering gabapentin.  I'm now down to 385mg per day so that's making me feel positive too.

 

All the best to all of us misfits... hahahahaha.     

[[Ch...]]

That sounds terrible, and very frightening.

 

It sounds as if we may never really recover.

 

I took benzodiazepines for the best part of 30 years and I have recovered.  You will, too.  I see in your signature that you were prescribed for RLS...so was I.  I now take Requip and it works fine.  Wish I'd been started on it instead of Temazepam so many years ago!

 

 

[[be...]]

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

 

 

I'm one of the short term users who tapered too quickly.  I'm doing better this last week and it seems my windows are longer/better and the waves are shorter/less severe now.  But the thing I've learned is that there is too much risk with a fast taper of any long half-life benzodiazepines.  By the time the withdrawal effect hits, you may have cut several more times in the meantime and that makes it difficult to rationally manage the taper.

 

I've been feeling enough of an improvement to continue tapering gabapentin.  I'm now down to 385mg per day so that's making me feel positive too.

 

All the best to all of us misfits... hahahahaha.     

 

Really?

[[Re...]]

As far as kindling, well, there are probably a lot of us who are around here. The only thing we can do is go slowly and try to heal as much on the way down to prevent a more difficult recovery. Same rules. Incidentally, I've seen kindled people who tapered sensibly recover nicely. I've seen a lot of non-kindled people on BB taper far too rapidly, IMO, and end up in bad shape.

 

 

I'm one of the short term users who tapered too quickly.  I'm doing better this last week and it seems my windows are longer/better and the waves are shorter/less severe now.  But the thing I've learned is that there is too much risk with a fast taper of any long half-life benzodiazepines.  By the time the withdrawal effect hits, you may have cut several more times in the meantime and that makes it difficult to rationally manage the taper.

 

I've been feeling enough of an improvement to continue tapering gabapentin.  I'm now down to 385mg per day so that's making me feel positive too.

 

All the best to all of us misfits... hahahahaha.     

 

Really?

 

"really" to which part benzo girl?

[[Co...]]

I think Benzo Girl was referring to 385 mg. 

 

There's absolutely no reason to believe, or evidence to support the idea that kindling means we won't recover.  It isn't a medical term, but a phenomenon that's been observed among recovering alcoholics for a very long time.  It just means that people have observed that subsequent withdrawals tend to become more difficult and last longer.  Kindling has been observed with alcohol, benzo, and antidepressant dependence.  I think if anyone wanted to learn more about it, they'd be more likely to find research as it relates to alcohol recovery.  God knows, no one seems to be doing much research in benzo recovery, or admitting that antidepressants are addicting. 

 

I believe that I kindled during the years of my benzo use.  Over the years, I took many breaks of 2-3 weeks with no benzos for sleep with no withdrawal effects at all.    My doctor never mentioned addiction, let along tapering or kindling.  I quit altogether from July - September 2016, and had no withdrawal.  It just kills me now to think of that.  I could have stopped forever and never suffered.  I refilled my Rx and took it from October to December 2016, then quit again, but this time.... well, here I am.  That's my definition of kindling.  sigh. 

 

[[Tw...]]

What's with all this kindling talk now? I thought it was used in relation to alcohol withdrawal? I'm sorry but it just seems like another thing to blame your suffering on and hold you down mentally. Even if the theory is true, what good is it to work yourself up about it when you cant change it? IMO...

[[Co...]]

I think it's mostly helpful to understand and the concept as a deterrent to reinstating if at all possible.