American healthcare system

[[wa...]]

"Higher quality mate" ... that's pretty subjective isn't it?

 

Totally straying off topic but I'd really like to know how you define that.

 

Lol, Chin, I was secretly hoping someone would pick up on that.    I'd really like to know too.

I found a higher quality "matey" http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/wendy236/matey_zpsonpro2ph.jpg

 

(I'm just funnin ya FG)

[[Fl...]]

"Higher quality mate" ... that's pretty subjective isn't it?

 

Yes and no.

 

Is it subjective in that there is some variation between the qualities that people value and find attractive in a mate? Yes.

 

Is it subjective in that if you asked a random group of 100 people to rate 10 members of the opposite sex that you wouldn't see a clear pattern regarding who is seen as "higher quality" if you performed the same experiment with a few more groups of judges? No.

 

Totally straying off topic but I'd really like to know how you define that.

 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

 

A few traits that men tend to value in women:

- physical appearance

- femininity

- youthfulness

- kindness/being agreeable

 

A few traits that women tend to value in men:

- confidence

- ambition

- social status

- masculinity

- height

 

[[Be...]]

I do prefer a man who is taller than I am.  Women do value a man who is ambitious and who wants to work and earn good money.  Instinctively we know he will then provide food and shelter for the nursing mother and the kids when she isn't able to work.  A survival instinct.  I dated a few guys once who were lazy and didn't want to work and it was a big turnoff.  Another thing that I think is a huge priority for women in the men they date and marry is that he is kind and not verbally or physically abusive.  Women are the physically weaker sex and we know how much more powerful a man is and can be and so we are always looking for a man who is never abusive and knows how to treat a woman with respect and kindness all the time.  Subconsciously we know he can hurt us and we won't have a chance which is why a man with a temper is not a higher quality mate. . . .  I guess this topic has gone off the rails.  It's more interesting to me than the healthcare system.   

[Guest [Le...]]

Totally straying off topic but I'd really like to know how you define that.

 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

 

A few traits that men tend to value in women:

- physical appearance

- femininity

- youthfulness

- kindness/being agreeable

 

A few traits that women tend to value in men:

- confidence

- ambition

- social status

- masculinity

- height

 

This topic may yet grow into a whole new thread, but please allow me to hijack it further.

 

The problem with the above examples is that the ones for women may be more about your own beliefs than about what women generally care about.

 

I personally care about kindness/compassion, honesty/decency, keen intelligence and a sharp sense of humor - those were and are absolute requirements.

 

With that as a basis, I have fallen in love with guys who were also short or fat or shy or poor or slightly effeminate, as well as some who met one or more of your parameters for men.

 

As far as what men want, I've never quite figured that out, although my kick-ass cooking never hurt.

[[wa...]]

This is not the entire list.  Most recent comps aren't yet published.  You might ask yourself why your premiums are high or increasing.  Ours was breaking us.  A huge cut from spouse's paycheck.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/wendy236/Insurance%20CEO_zps70ljqfcb.jpg

 

some sources are simply off of Wiki

[[pr...]]

Totally straying off topic but I'd really like to know how you define that.

 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

 

A few traits that men tend to value in women:

- physical appearance

- femininity

- youthfulness

- kindness/being agreeable

 

A few traits that women tend to value in men:

- confidence

- ambition

- social status

- masculinity

- height

 

This topic may yet grow into a whole new thread, but please allow me to hijack it further.

 

The problem with the above examples is that the ones for women may be more about your own beliefs than about what women generally care about.

 

I personally care about kindness/compassion, honesty/decency, keen intelligence and a sharp sense of humor - those were and are absolute requirements.

 

With that as a basis, I have fallen in love with guys who were also short or fat or shy or poor or slightly effeminate, as well as some who met one or more of your parameters for men.

As far as what men want, I've never quite figured that out, although my kick-ass cooking never hurt.

 

 

yep, i fall in love with a more sensitive/creative/kind type and i have also fallen in love with very short/ pretty fat and also pretty kinda not great looking at all. i think i've only had about one guy who was pretty great looking. oh and of course sense of humor is probably a first.

[[Ga...]]

Totally straying off topic but I'd really like to know how you define that.

 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

 

A few traits that men tend to value in women:

- physical appearance

- femininity

- youthfulness

- kindness/being agreeable

 

A few traits that women tend to value in men:

- confidence

- ambition

- social status

- masculinity

- height

 

This topic may yet grow into a whole new thread, but please allow me to hijack it further.

 

The problem with the above examples is that the ones for women may be more about your own beliefs than about what women generally care about.

 

I personally care about kindness/compassion, honesty/decency, keen intelligence and a sharp sense of humor - those were and are absolute requirements.

 

With that as a basis, I have fallen in love with guys who were also short or fat or shy or poor or slightly effeminate, as well as some who met one or more of your parameters for men.

As far as what men want, I've never quite figured that out, although my kick-ass cooking never hurt.

 

 

yep, i fall in love with a more sensitive/creative/kind type and i have also fallen in love with very short/ pretty fat and also pretty kinda not great looking at all. i think i've only had about one guy who was pretty great looking. oh and of course sense of humor is probably a first.

 

I miss a sense of humor!!!

 

[[Be...]]

I personally don't like a really masculine man.  I also prefer the sensitive/creative type.  A man who is a musician is a big turn-on for me.  Most of them don't have tempers.  I'm afraid of a man who has a temper or is mean.  I know how harmful that could be if it's inflicted on me.  Social status doesn't matter to me either.  Most women aren't as much into looks as men are.  We girls never talked much about how a man looked.  We'd always talk about whether he was nice or not and had money and if we had chemistry with them and if they had a sense of humor and could laugh.  Most women love to be pampered and have a nice big home with no money worries and be taken to nice restaurants, etc. and have money spent on them.  It always felt good to be surrounded in luxury and riding in a nice car when I dated some rich men in my past.  I also dated a few rich men who were misers.  That turned me off.  I never understood what men wanted in a woman until I was much older.  I'm learning.  Looks are really important to a man because they're thinking about having sex with women all the time.  Sex is VERY important to a man.  I also believe most men want to be in charge with practical things and don't want a woman who challenges them or tells them what to do and especially telling them they are wrong--it hurts their ego and makes them feel like less of a man and then they are turned off by the woman.  I think being agreeable means letting the man solve problems without her interference.  What's a woman to do who is smarter than the man she is dating and can solve problems efficiently and can't contribute to solving those problems?     

[[...]]

This is not the entire list.  Most recent comps aren't yet published.  You might ask yourself why your premiums are high or increasing.  Ours was breaking us.  A huge cut from spouse's paycheck.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/wendy236/Insurance%20CEO_zps70ljqfcb.jpg

 

some sources are simply off of Wiki

 

Now that'$ MY definition of a top quality mate. 

 

 

But seriously now.  I gotta tell ya, very sadly, I do believe FG is *almost* quite correct with this statement:

 

people of a healthy weight will get better jobs and attract a higher quality mate etc

 

I would edit it to read:  "people of a healthy weight have the advantage of getting better jobs and attracting (their subjective ) higher quality mate etc. over very obese people".  That's life, that's fact.  Rightly or wrongly.  No?

 

I think it's a given that women in general place far less value on looks than men do.  But I think we might be lying to ourselves if we said it didn't matter one bit?  I also find there's a broader range of "types" that different women are attracted to - some women love the rugged "ugly" look, others like pretty boy.  Whereas for males, it's more stereotypical Barbie. 

 

Anyhow, I'm a-gonna just sit back now and watch where this goes.  Oh, guess no-one else found it fascinating that 200-300% more Japan/Mauritius lung cancer victims survive five years than do UK victims? 

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

yep, men and the Barbie look--sexual aspects of the woman's body.  It always bothered me that men placed so much importance on sex.  I felt like an object to be used.  Always when a man would compliment me it would be about my looks and not about who I was on the inside.  I can't even count how many times a man would see me and say, "You're looking good," or "you've lost weight," and their eyes would run up and down my body.  A man never complimented me for my mind or anything else like that.  I believe I got alot of my jobs when I was young because I was a healthy and fit and--some men would say--attractive lady.  If men were hiring, I'd almost always get the job, especially if I wore an attractive skirt or outfit, etc. at the job interview.  Gotta put food on the table and many times I really wanted the job.   

[[pr...]]

But I think we might be lying to ourselves if we said it didn't matter one bit?

 

 

even if a man isn't esthetically handsome or beautiful, i still have to be attracted to him in some way. i've only been with muscians. well one corporate stooge. first boyfriend was a drummer, other men i feel in love with musicians and a bass player.

i wanted to try out the corporate dud because i wanted to see if i could so something different and i just wasn't attracted to him. but all of them were the more gentle/sensitive type. if i ever saw someone like my brother i would run for the hills.

i also don't really like a handsome man, i like someone who is more of the beautiful type like keanu reeves. i don't like 6-packs - or too muscular - i like them to be a little bit of a grizzly bear - you know the sensitive/creative/artist/grizzly bear.

 

Anyhow, I'm a-gonna just sit back now and watch where this goes.  Oh, guess no-one else found it fascinating that 200-300% more Japan/Mauritius lung cancer victims survive five years than do UK victims?

 

this is fascinating. why this is i wonder?

 

[[wh...]]

This is not the entire list.  Most recent comps aren't yet published.  You might ask yourself why your premiums are high or increasing.  Ours was breaking us.  A huge cut from spouse's paycheck.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/wendy236/Insurance%20CEO_zps70ljqfcb.jpg

 

some sources are simply off of Wiki

 

And you can't even stay overnight after many major surgeries here.....

[[Fl...]]

This topic may yet grow into a whole new thread, but please allow me to hijack it further.

 

The problem with the above examples is that the ones for women may be more about your own beliefs than about what women generally care about.

 

I personally care about kindness/compassion, honesty/decency, keen intelligence and a sharp sense of humor - those were and are absolute requirements.

 

With that as a basis, I have fallen in love with guys who were also short or fat or shy or poor or slightly effeminate, as well as some who met one or more of your parameters for men.

 

As far as what men want, I've never quite figured that out, although my kick-ass cooking never hurt.

 

Well, first off this wasn't anywhere near a complete list and there are certainly some traits that both sexes find attractive. Also, your personal experience doesn't invalidate the rule.

 

It is pretty well established that women place high value on the things that I listed. All of these attractiveness traits are things that we seek to ensure the survival of our species. People try to complicate it but it is really very simple- men tend to be attracted to young, attractive, "good" women who can bear and raise healthy, well adjusted children, and women tend to be attracted to men who are able to provide and protect them.

 

And yes, being a good cook will get you bonus points. Its a dying art and women underestimate how much men appreciate it.

[[Fl...]]

But seriously now.  I gotta tell ya, very sadly, I do believe FG is *almost* quite correct with this statement:

 

people of a healthy weight will get better jobs and attract a higher quality mate etc

 

I would edit it to read:  "people of a healthy weight have the advantage of getting better jobs and attracting (their subjective ) higher quality mate etc. over very obese people".  That's life, that's fact.  Rightly or wrongly.  No?

 

Of course this is just a generalization. We don't have to break it down that much, do we?

 

Also, I do not agree with the "very obese" disclaimer. The closer you are to an ideal body weight the more you advantage you will have. You don't have to be very obese to notice the negative effects of carrying excess weight.

 

I think it's a given that women in general place far less value on looks than men do.  But I think we might be lying to ourselves if we said it didn't matter one bit?  I also find there's a broader range of "types" that different women are attracted to - some women love the rugged "ugly" look, others like pretty boy.  Whereas for males, it's more stereotypical Barbie.

 

Of course women value looks as well. It just isn't nearly as close to the top of the list as it is for men. I do agree that women have a broader range of "types" but you might be surprised at the variety some men like as well.

 

[[pr...]]

but you might be surprised at the variety some men like as well.

 

 

and what are theses?

[[Ch...]]

"Higher quality mate" ... that's pretty subjective isn't it?

 

Yes and no.

 

Is it subjective in that there is some variation between the qualities that people value and find attractive in a mate? Yes.

 

Is it subjective in that if you asked a random group of 100 people to rate 10 members of the opposite sex that you wouldn't see a clear pattern regarding who is seen as "higher quality" if you performed the same experiment with a few more groups of judges? No.

 

Totally straying off topic but I'd really like to know how you define that.

 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

 

A few traits that men tend to value in women:

- physical appearance

- femininity

- youthfulness

- kindness/being agreeable

 

A few traits that women tend to value in men:

- confidence

- ambition

- social status

- masculinity

- height

 

Take the bait? You weren't being trapped, lol.

 

I don't presume to know what traits women tend to value in men. I haven't done a poll and can only speak for myself.

 

As for your statement " a few traits that men tend to value in women" ...

 

I think you should have phrased it "a few traits I value in women."

 

Fair enough?

[[...]]

But seriously now.  I gotta tell ya, very sadly, I do believe FG is *almost* quite correct with this statement:

 

people of a healthy weight will get better jobs and attract a higher quality mate etc

 

I would edit it to read:  "people of a healthy weight have the advantage of getting better jobs and attracting (their subjective ) higher quality mate etc. over very obese people".  That's life, that's fact.  Rightly or wrongly.  No?

 

Of course this is just a generalization. We don't have to break it down that much, do we?

 

Yea, with you we do!  This is how you get yourself into all sorts of trouble. 

 

 

 

Also, I do not agree with the "very obese" disclaimer. The closer you are to an ideal body weight the more you advantage you will have. You don't have to be very obese to notice the negative effects of carrying excess weight.

 

Nothing to disagree with, we're essentially saying the same thing ... or maybe we need to break down "very obese" some more? 

 

So, anyhow, I'm bored with this re-hashed weight thingy  so I'll wait in anticipation - with all the others here, I'm sure - to hear your response to Pretty.

[[Fl...]]

but you might be surprised at the variety some men like as well.

 

 

and what are theses?

 

Breast size, for one. Some guys like them bigger and some even like them smaller. It really isn't as big of a deal for us guys as women tend to believe that it is. Hair color as well. Blondes do have a bit of an edge as lighter color hair tends to signal youth and that is something that men place a high value on, but it isn't like you are out of luck if you don't have blonde hair and blue eyes. Having an ideal waist/hip ratio (again, back to the role that obesity plays in attraction) has a much bigger impact than details such as breast size or hair color.

[[Fl...]]

Take the bait? You weren't being trapped, lol.

 

It was bait because it didn't matter what I said, you would still try to argue that I am wrong.

 

I don't presume to know what traits women tend to value in men. I haven't done a poll and can only speak for myself.

 

As for your statement " a few traits that men tend to value in women" ...

 

I think you should have phrased it "a few traits I value in women."

 

Fair enough?

 

Annnnnnd I was right 

 

You may not have conducted a poll on what women value in men, but rest assured attractiveness traits have been studied, and the things I listed are not unique to me.

 

I'm not sure why it is so hard to believe that attractiveness or even "mate value" can be measured. You can obfuscate the debate by arguing that your own personal experience trumps the science or by trying to disprove my points by focusing on the fact that there are no 100% absolutes (which is a given), but it doesn't help to prove your case. 

 

The fact is these things can be quantified. Like it or not some people are seen as a better catch than others, and if you did conduct a series of polls there would be some variation but you would be able to see a pattern.

[[Fl...]]

But seriously now.  I gotta tell ya, very sadly, I do believe FG is *almost* quite correct with this statement:

 

people of a healthy weight will get better jobs and attract a higher quality mate etc

 

I would edit it to read:  "people of a healthy weight have the advantage of getting better jobs and attracting (their subjective ) higher quality mate etc. over very obese people".  That's life, that's fact.  Rightly or wrongly.  No?

 

Of course this is just a generalization. We don't have to break it down that much, do we?

 

Yea, with you we do!  This is how you get yourself into all sorts of trouble. 

 

That's the problem. I can't point out things that go against the narrative without "getting into trouble" or having to place common sense disclaimers in front of everything I say.

 

When someone's argument hinges on their personal experience and nitpicking details that no one is arguing against they might want to question said narrative.

[[me...]]

Hi everyone,

 

We've had a few complaints about this thread going off topic, so the management would appreciate it if you'd stay on topic, which is, the American healthcare system.

 

Thanks,

 

megan918

Administrator

[[pr...]]

So, anyhow, I'm bored with this re-hashed weight thingy 

 

 

me too getting a bit bored. back to the topic at hand.

[[Be...]]

I like reading about the differences between men and women and how they see each other.  I posted in an old thread I had about that since we don't want to be off-topic on this one.

[[Lo...]]

There are plenty of doctors who focus on prevention and don't prescribe many meds. A primary care doctor successfully took a family member off of Paxil by tapering her Paxil with Prozac and then slowly reducing Prozac. It was a resounding success. This was an MD who prided herself in minimially invasive treatments, and was very judicious with prescribing medication.

 

On the other hand, I barely made it through a ruptured appendix episode with blood poisoning and 104 fever. But this was in my younger days when I was fit and healthy and not on benzos. The hospital was good, but I didn't like the fact that the surgeon didn't prescribe antibiotics when there were glaring signs of infection. Also, they misdiagonosed it during the intake as a  bladder problem, which it wasn't..... It took a lot of blood work done to find the right antibiotic. I am lucky I made it through that.

 

I think it depends on the doctor. If an anxious person on no meds with a normal BP has BP spike in the office, will the doc prescribe a BP med immediately, or just ask the patient about their BP history and the reasons? Most people don't like going to the doctor, and will most likely be more anxious when there, which a clinician may attribute to the disorder.

 

Docs don't see us how we live our lives day-to-day. Too many of us rushing to the doc instead of making more connections and finding friends and balancing our lives better.