American healthcare system

[[Be...]]

FG, didn't know you were paying out of pocket for a bp med.  I guess if someone isn't using the insurance, it seems like alot to me.  I'm used to having been working at good jobs and I was even a state worker for years making very good money and they paid nearly all my insurance premium.  I think I only owed about $20/mo. for excellent health, dental and vision and the state picked up the rest of the tab.  Even with private employers, I had very good coverage with making a very good salary.   

[[Fl...]]

FG, didn't know you were paying out of pocket for a bp med.  I guess if someone isn't using the insurance, it seems like alot to me.  I'm used to having been working at good jobs and I was even a state worker for years making very good money and they paid nearly all my insurance premium.  I think I only owed about $20/mo. for excellent health, dental and vision and the state picked up the rest of the tab.  Even with private employers, I had very good coverage with making a very good salary. 

 

I'm not paying for the med but I do have to pay for the office visit to get the script. The med is on the free list at Walmart and Publix.

[[Be...]]

I guess we all get to used to thinking that even $40/mo. for health insurance is cheap.  I think the medical care for-profit system and health insurance for-profit industry is all over-priced.  $$$$$  ching, ching, ching.  Everything costs money.  Everything has a price tag on it and everyone wants my money.  This world is bullshit. 

[[Te...]]

Although there are problems with Obamacare, FG, I do feel fortunate that it came at a time when I was just about bankrupt from hospitalizations, ER visits, and numerous doctor visits. I was lucky that it came just in time. So I, for one, really was happy with it. However, the cost keeps going up, and in order to keep the same person I've been seeing, I'll have to pay more next year. So I'm glad I'll be on Medicare soon.

[[Ga...]]

My hubby paid $10 a week to add me to his med ins from his company in 1978

 

It was blue Cross and had good coverage.

 

$40 a mo for pretty good ins.  These days is cheap.

 

 

[[Co...]]

I guess we all get to used to thinking that even $40/mo. for health insurance is cheap.  I think the medical care for-profit system and health insurance for-profit industry is all over-priced.  $$$$$  ching, ching, ching.  Everything costs money.  Everything has a price tag on it and everyone wants my money.  This world is bullshit.

 

In my country we pay 80 dollars a year. 40 dollars a month is crazy in my perspective.

[[Bl...]]

Everything costs money.  Everything has a price tag on it 

 

Funny, I have been contemplating….more and more lately, how crazy things are in this world in view of how everything carries a price tag from goods, right down to even relationships. The social fiber of society, for the most part, is driven by money!

 

This system is Soooo divisive. We do need some type of economic system in place….but wouldn’t it be nice if it were not painful but user friendly?

 

You might think I’m a dreamer…but the idea of a system based on love will soon be a reality, and it could never and will never evolve out of the current system….on their own humans are simply incapable of setting in place a system that flows effortlessly and to the benefit of all living things.

 

Imagine this, regardless of who we are or where we live we would all be truly happy and not stressing over our basic needs. This will soon be a reality. I can’t wait….things are such a mess right now.

[[Ch...]]

Do you take issue with other programs or is it just social assistance that gets your dander up?

 

The less government interference, the better. Obviously we need some government but the idea that the solution to all of these problems is to keep applying more and more pressure to the people who produce things to relieve the pressure for the people who don't (for legitimate reasons or otherwise) is a recipe for disaster. Not everyone wants "free stuff", but plenty of people do and the motivation will always move when the incentive shifts. If everyone was on the up and up these programs wouldn't be an issue, but all it takes is a few bad apples to spoil the bunch and unfortunately there are more than a few out there.

 

I don't have children but my tax dollars go towards building schools and providing an education for other people's children.

 

Is that fair? Probably not, but I don't have a problem with it.

 

It is great that you don't mind funding things that benefit other people, but why should everyone be forced to do this? I suppose as builder mentioned the argument could be made that the benefits to me outweigh the costs, but it is easy to fall into the trap of believing that the whole world will crumble if people are left to decide things for themselves when the reality is that this freedom is what built this country. People can't see it now because everything is buried in red tape so when a system fails it's easy to blame the free market, when in reality it is the lack of a truly free market that caused the majority of the issues.

 

In other words, you should be free to support the education of other people's children as you see fit. But why should I have to? One of the reasons why I have made a conscious choice not to have children is because it costs a lot of money. If I choose to have zero children to keep my costs down, how is it fair for me to have to help someone else who chooses to have many children? ESPECIALLY if having those children means that I will also be having to pay for their food, housing and healthcare with more of my tax dollars.

 

The bottom line is that we should be free to choose who we help and who we don't help. Letting government take it from some and give to others is not the answer. Let people keep their money and make their own decisions about where it should go. Having localized control keeps the "assistance" out of the hands of dishonest people. It also makes people think twice before making poor and selfish decisions when they know that the only help available is through local organizations who have better control over who truly deserves assistance.

 

FG,

 

That insurance seems fantasic. I'm paying a lot more for a lot less.

 

You don't need a referral ?

 

Yes, I believe I do need a referral to see a specialist.

 

There is nothing progressive about Obamacare. Forcing those with low and middle class incomes to pay for poor-quality insurance (that they then can't afford to use) so that even poorer people can get high quality insurance for next to nothing is ridiculous, and merely shifts the problem without solving anything.

 

I agree. Lets hope that we see some positive changes with this new administration.

 

I think healthcare in the US SUX unless you need a heart transplant or you have cancer - but when a hammer, everything looks like a nail and the Dr's here in the US have zero knowledge of Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome - zero - (for the most part) There is no wizard behind that curtain - this is just my own opinion.....today.

 

I wouldn't say that it sucks, but it is definitely flawed. I think the further you get away from critical care and the closer you get to "comfort" care the more these flaws become evident.

 

It takes a whole village to raise a child. 

 

I believe that.

 

I don't mind that my tax dollars go towards programs and services that help others, that's the price I pay for belonging to a benevolent society.

 

I would much rather see it go towards that rather than military spending or fraudulent medical research but that's another subject.

 

Chinook

[[Fl...]]

In my country we pay 80 dollars a year. 40 dollars a month is crazy in my perspective.

 

Someone is paying a lot more than $80 per year for each person's healthcare. How much do you pay in taxes? The money is coming out of someone's pocket, I can assure you.

 

 

 

 

[Guest [mu...]]

In my country we pay 80 dollars a year. 40 dollars a month is crazy in my perspective.

 

Someone is paying a lot more than $80 per year for each person's healthcare. How much do you pay in taxes? The money is coming out of someone's pocket, I can assure you.

 

I'm not so sure about that, FG. U.S. citizens pay far more health care taxes than any other country in the world (including countries with universal health programs), and yet we don't have much to show for it. There are many, many reasons why our medical care is so outrageously expensive - taxes actually have very little to do with it.

 

 

[[li...]]

mutuuraia,

 

While I don't know the healthcare system in the USA very well at all, and it is relatively expensive - you can get a lot for that money. There is a lot of waste - diagnostics, overtreatment.

It can be a lot worse.

 

Controlling healthcare costs is not always cheaper. Here, GPs earn at least 1.5 or even twice the amount American GPs do.

[Guest [mu...]]

Can you tell me where you're getting your statistics from that GPs in the U.K. earn twice what American doctors do? After a bit of googling on my end, the opposite appears to be true.

 

Also, not all of us feel that we "get a lot for our money" here. Quite the contrary. My health insurance costs about $450 a month, and that's without me actually attempting to use it. It was literally the cheapest plan available to me and my husband, who makes just enough that we are unable to receive any tax credit. If I wanted and could afford to use my health care plan, I'd first have to call the insurance company before being allowed to see a VERY limited selection of doctors. This doctor visit will last approximately 10 minutes, during which time I will be offered drugs that will only suppress my symptoms, not cure them, and will likely harm me in some way. I will then have to pay 100% of my doctor's fee and a large co-pay, in addition to the $450+ a month I am forced by law to pay, until my very high deductible is reached.

 

Given that the average lifespan in the U.S. is declining and our third and forth leading causes of death are due to iatrogenesis and medical error, I don't think we have too much to brag about here....

 

[[Fl...]]

I'm not so sure about that, FG. U.S. citizens pay far more health care taxes than any other country in the world (including countries with universal health programs), and yet we don't have much to show for it. There are many, many reasons why our medical care is so outrageously expensive - taxes actually have very little to do with it.

 

We aren't talking about why healthcare itself is so expensive, we are talking about how much an individual has to pay for their healthcare in a given country. If someone is only paying $80 per year, the balance is being paid with tax money. It is not free. Someone is paying for it. That was my point.

 

Can you tell me where you're getting your statistics from that GPs in the U.K. earn twice what American doctors do? After a bit of googling on my end, the opposite appears to be true.

 

Also, not all of us feel that we "get a lot for our money" here. Quite the contrary. My health insurance costs about $450 a month, and that's without me actually attempting to use it. It was literally the cheapest plan available to me and my husband, who makes just enough that we are unable to receive any tax credit. If I wanted and could afford to use my health care plan, I'd first have to call the insurance company before being allowed to see a VERY limited selection of doctors. This doctor visit will last approximately 10 minutes, during which time I will be offered drugs that will only suppress my symptoms, not cure them, and will likely harm me in some way. I will then have to pay 100% of my doctor's fee and a large co-pay, in addition to the $450+ a month I am forced by law to pay, until my very high deductible is reached.

 

This is the perfect example of why government needs to keep their filthy hands out of it (and most other things). You are forced to pay over $5000 per year for something you can't even use. Doesn't seem fair, does it? It's great when you are in my position since I am poor enough to qualify for large subsidies but not so great when you have to work your ass off to pay for something you can't even use.

 

Given that the average lifespan in the U.S. is declining and our third and forth leading causes of death are due to iatrogenesis and medical error, I don't think we have too much to brag about here....

 

I think this is also an example of why people shouldn't just assume that the grass is greener somewhere else. So many people in the US are calling for "free" healthcare when many of them have no idea what that entails (the money has to come from somewhere and it isn't unlimited) and they haven't bothered to research the downsides of socialized healthcare such as long waits and substandard care.

[[xe...]]

The US healthcare system has so far worked well for me, but I'm an upper/middle class white cismale with an unusually strong ability to advocate for myself, working in an industry where much-better-than-normal insurance offerings is basically a requirement for companies to offer if they want to attract top talent.

 

If you're not all of those things, you can get pretty severely boned. The stories I have heard from people with less privileges.... ugh!

 

I've also burned thousands of dollars seeing top-notch professionals who refuse to accept or deal with insurance companies because of how completely broken they are, which speaks volumes.

[[Be...]]

Yep.  Poorer people get the shaft for sure when it comes to insurance.  I was a state worker and mostly entry level and I paid the same premiums that a state worker who makes $200k/year would pay.  Where's the fairness in that? 

[[bu...]]

  Here, GPs earn at least 1.5 or even twice the amount American GPs do.

 

Please provide documentation.

[[bu...]]

Yep.  Poorer people get the shaft for sure when it comes to insurance.  I was a state worker and mostly entry level and I paid the same premiums that a state worker who makes $200k/year would pay.  Where's the fairness in that?

 

The fairness is you got the same benefit as a state worker who makes $200k.

 

Your buying the same product, so its fair you pay the same price.

[[Co...]]

In my country we pay 80 dollars a year. 40 dollars a month is crazy in my perspective.

 

Someone is paying a lot more than $80 per year for each person's healthcare. How much do you pay in taxes? The money is coming out of someone's pocket, I can assure you.

 

Yes we pay it in taxes. That's true. Because everyone pays the same amount so the poorest people would be able to get care. Rich people can fly over to america anyways so don't see the problem in that

[[Ch...]]

I guess we all get to used to thinking that even $40/mo. for health insurance is cheap.  I think the medical care for-profit system and health insurance for-profit industry is all over-priced.  $$$$$  ching, ching, ching.  Everything costs money.  Everything has a price tag on it and everyone wants my money.  This world is bullshit.

 

In my country we pay 80 dollars a year. 40 dollars a month is crazy in my perspective.

 

I'm in Canada, we no longer pay monthly healthcare premiums in my province (Alberta) and I think most other provinces have dropped it too.

 

That's not to say healthcare is "free" though, I believe Canadians on average spend around $3900 through taxes every year for an individual and a typical family would pay about $11,750.

[[Ch...]]

I'm not so sure about that, FG. U.S. citizens pay far more health care taxes than any other country in the world (including countries with universal health programs), and yet we don't have much to show for it. There are many, many reasons why our medical care is so outrageously expensive - taxes actually have very little to do with it.

 

We aren't talking about why healthcare itself is so expensive, we are talking about how much an individual has to pay for their healthcare in a given country. If someone is only paying $80 per year, the balance is being paid with tax money. It is not free. Someone is paying for it. That was my point.

 

Can you tell me where you're getting your statistics from that GPs in the U.K. earn twice what American doctors do? After a bit of googling on my end, the opposite appears to be true.

 

Also, not all of us feel that we "get a lot for our money" here. Quite the contrary. My health insurance costs about $450 a month, and that's without me actually attempting to use it. It was literally the cheapest plan available to me and my husband, who makes just enough that we are unable to receive any tax credit. If I wanted and could afford to use my health care plan, I'd first have to call the insurance company before being allowed to see a VERY limited selection of doctors. This doctor visit will last approximately 10 minutes, during which time I will be offered drugs that will only suppress my symptoms, not cure them, and will likely harm me in some way. I will then have to pay 100% of my doctor's fee and a large co-pay, in addition to the $450+ a month I am forced by law to pay, until my very high deductible is reached.

 

This is the perfect example of why government needs to keep their filthy hands out of it (and most other things). You are forced to pay over $5000 per year for something you can't even use. Doesn't seem fair, does it? It's great when you are in my position since I am poor enough to qualify for large subsidies but not so great when you have to work your ass off to pay for something you can't even use.

 

Given that the average lifespan in the U.S. is declining and our third and forth leading causes of death are due to iatrogenesis and medical error, I don't think we have too much to brag about here....

 

I think this is also an example of why people shouldn't just assume that the grass is greener somewhere else. So many people in the US are calling for "free" healthcare when many of them have no idea what that entails (the money has to come from somewhere and it isn't unlimited) and they haven't bothered to research the downsides of socialized healthcare such as long waits and substandard care.

 

As you know we have universal healthcare in Canada. Wait times can be long but if it's urgent the system swings into action and you'll be fast tracked, believe me.

 

I used to find plenty of fault with the level of care but after my cardiac event in August, and 6 days in CCU, I have nothing but praise.

 

I doubt very much if I would have received better care at any of the best hospitals in the U.S.

 

From the doc on call at our little hospital here to the paramedics who took me up to Calgary, to the cardiologists who were waiting for me, to the folks in the cath lab; the nurses, porters, housekeeping staff ... everyone treated me with the utmost kindness and respect.

 

They were all there when I needed them and I'm very grateful. 

 

 

[[li...]]

  Here, GPs earn at least 1.5 or even twice the amount American GPs do.

 

Please provide documentation.

 

That would be telling in which country I live. Sorry, I'm not going to do that. 'somewhere in Europe'.

 

Total healthcare expenditure per capita (according to offical statistics) is lower, but GPs are expected to handle a lot. Including many things for which people in the USA see specialists.

But the GPs are not that good ...

[Guest [mu...]]

We aren't talking about why healthcare itself is so expensive, we are talking about how much an individual has to pay for their healthcare in a given country. If someone is only paying $80 per year, the balance is being paid with tax money. It is not free. Someone is paying for it. That was my point.

 

Yes, this money has to come from somewhere, but individuals in other countries with universal healthcare programs currently pay far <i>less</i> taxes on their healthcare than Americans do. Our healthcare is vastly more expensive than it is in other countries (for the exact same services and procedures) for a myriad of reasons, not least of which is our outrageously inflated administrative costs. This has everything to do with the conversation, as it is the individual American taxpayer who foots this bill, in addition to paying for private insurance.

 

This is the perfect example of why government needs to keep their filthy hands out of it (and most other things). You are forced to pay over $5000 per year for something you can't even use. Doesn't seem fair, does it? It's great when you are in my position since I am poor enough to qualify for large subsidies but not so great when you have to work your ass off to pay for something you can't even use.

 

No, it's not fair, but the ACA is an insurance mandate only, which is not the same thing as single payer healthcare.

 

I think this is also an example of why people shouldn't just assume that the grass is greener somewhere else. So many people in the US are calling for "free" healthcare when many of them have no idea what that entails (the money has to come from somewhere and it isn't unlimited) and they haven't bothered to research the downsides of socialized healthcare such as long waits and substandard care.

 

I think you need to do more research into this yourself, FG… single payer is not socialized medicine. It is a healthcare <i>payment</i> system, not a health care <i>delivery</i> system. Single payer healthcare is not socialized medicine any more than the public funding of the defense industry is "socialized defense.” Providers can still be private under a single payer system.

 

Some countries with universal healthcare may occasionally have longer wait times, but this generally occurs in rural areas with less access to doctors (just as it does here), and is almost entirely represented by elective procedures anyway, not urgent or critical care. It's also a bit presumptuous to complain about long lines when many Americans can't afford to <i>get in line</i> in the first place. In the U.S. we are limited by cost, which is a barrier that often cannot be surmounted at all, no matter how long people wait; difficulty in accessing care is actually much greater here than it is in countries with universal healthcare. Not only that, but our healthcare outcomes are poorer in all but a few categories of disease (namely breast and prostate cancer, although I could debunk this one if I had more energy), and even then it's only by a relatively small margin.

 

 

[[fi...]]

Personally I want to see Dr's make a TON of money bc I want the best and the brightest to WANT to be Dr's and our brilliant youth to pursue medical degrees - and that just isn't happening any longer - This isn't charity and shouldn't be - its a sad day when good Dr's refuse to take Medicare bc they can't make a living on what Medicare is willing to pay for services -

 

But when the Govt is involved and some un knowledgeable 25 year old on the Medicare hotline is dictating what services they will or will not pay for  - Dr's are left either paying for the tests they deem necessary for their patients, themselves or not being able to treat the patient adequately

 

 

[[fi...]]

Yep.  Poorer people get the shaft for sure when it comes to insurance.  I was a state worker and mostly entry level and I paid the same premiums that a state worker who makes $200k/year would pay.  Where's the fairness in that?

 

The fairness is you got the same benefit as a state worker who makes $200k.

 

Your buying the same product, so its fair you pay the same price.

 

Kudos builder 

 

and so simple

[[bu...]]

 

That would be telling in which country I live. Sorry, I'm not going to do that. 'somewhere in Europe'.

 

 

 

http://medicfootprints.org/10-highest-paid-countries-world-doctors/

 

There doesn't appear to be any country where " ...GPs earn at least 1.5 or even twice the amount American GPs do."

 

Apparently, GPs in the US are on top, at $161,000, followed by UK@ $118,000, the Netherlands@$117,000, and Switzerland@ $116,000.