Taking the Red Pill- the importance of being aware of your own best interest

[[...]]

Well, I believe I've wasted enough time and overtaxed my poor brain enough on this thread, LOL. Quit sucking me back in, people!

 

 

 

No, no, you're doing all my work for me!  Bravo!  Not being lazy, I promise, just in rough shape here.

Hey, can you please also talk for me about all those "other" single mothers.  All the ones we're surrounded by in our everyday lives ... Our sisters, our girlfriends, neighbors, co-workers.  Hardworking, often highly educated career women.  Anyone got any thoughts (and stats) on them?  And solutions?  So they'll stop breaking up marriages? 

 

 

 

I thought the point was arriving at truth and correct action?

 

I do not disagree with the conclusions that children raised by single mothers are more likely to be incarcerated, poor, and uneducated. I also don't think this idea (or talking about it) is as shocking or taboo as you seem to imply that it is. What I do disagree with is the idea that these statistics represent the whole story, and that we can draw any solid "truth" from them. We have to ask ourselves more questions first, such as those I pointed out yesterday.

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

Also for your consideration, is this. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/05/meet-the-cult-leader-stumping-for-donald-trump.html Please be sure to follow through on investigating the websites mentioned here as well.

 

 

Oh, don't steal my thunder now!  Wait until I manage to take on Molyneux.  Like I said, I did my homework first.  And, sadly, sigh, I do have way too much time on my hands.

Stay tuned, grab the popcorn, it promises to be quite a riot!

 

 

[[Fl...]]

mutuuraia-

 

Your stance on things seems to be based on the idea that everyone should be equal. My stance is that true equality is a pipe dream due to inherent differences between individuals, races, sexes etc. based on IQ, physical strength, emotional strength and other factors and we can either pretend that it is possible to get everyone on the same page despite these differences or we can acknowledge the differences and embrace them to find ways to make the world a better place for everyone.

 

You also seem to believe that it is justifiable to forcibly correct perceived inequalities by taking away from the haves and giving to the have nots. Unfortunately this is a recipe for disaster due to the fact that there will inevitably be people who take advantage of this and we end up creating a society of dependent people who have a lot of inventive to hold onto a victim mentality that cannot survive indefinitely. Resources are limited and you can only forcibly take resources from people for so long before they say enough is enough. As more resources are transferred from the people who are willing or able to be productive to the people who are increasingly dependent it creates instability and eventually something has to give.

 

So we will never see eye to eye on most of these issues because I believe that first and foremost in personally accountability, and you believe first and foremost that most of these problems stem from inequality. In your eyes the single mother's life is "complicated" and chances are she was disadvantaged to begin with so instead of starting from the point of holding her personally responsible for her actions we should try to correct whatever injustices got her there in the first place. Due to the reasons I outlined above I could not disagree more because it doesn't matter what you do life is never going to be perfectly fair or "just" so if we don't start by holding individuals accountable for what they do have control over we will just end up keeping people in a perpetual state of victimhood by telling them that it isn't their fault.

 

There is a powderkeg brewing in the US and it has everything to do with these perceived injustices and the perpetual victimhood stance that is promoted to keep people angry and dependent. Just look at the political unrest, the racial tensions and the relations between the sexes. People are starting to get really upset and we need to find REAL solutions to these problems sooner rather than later.

 

There are an increasing number of people who believe that there could be some serious shit hitting the fan right here at home and seeing the political unrest I don't think it's a stretch to think that it could be violent and bloody. I hope it doesn't come to that. I hope we can take a realistic look at these problems and find peaceful solutions (Molyneux talks a lot about this) but I'm not extremely hopeful for a peaceful outcome as long as this idea that everyone is a victim keeps getting promoted.

[[Fl...]]

Also for your consideration, is this. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/05/meet-the-cult-leader-stumping-for-donald-trump.html Please be sure to follow through on investigating the websites mentioned here as well.

 

I would encourage each and every one of you who are reading this to read this article, and while you are reading it ask yourself if it sounds familiar.

 

Benzobuddies is what many would consider "alternative" information and it wasn't too long ago that there was a smear campaign that targeted at BB, the main implication being that it is a "dangerous cult" with implication of ties to scientology. Read that article and tell me if any of this sounds familiar.

 

Molyneux is big enough now that he has a target on his back. Polls tell us that mainstream media's public approval rating is at 6% and declining. Only 6% of people trust the mainstream media and that number has been dropping for quite some time.

 

What do you believe? I would encourage anyone who believes this to seriously question a source that has an abysmal public trust rating of 6%.

 

 

[[Fl...]]

I can't spend any more time on this now but I would also like to remind everyone that a typical blue pill debate tactic is to attack the messenger to divert attention away from having to address the message.

 

This is what people do when they can't back up their argument.

[[...]]

I can't spend any more time on this now but I would also like to remind everyone that a typical blue pill debate tactic is to attack the messenger to divert attention away from having to address the message.

 

This is what people do when they can't back up their argument.

 

Geez. I hate that I can't get my thoughts all down here to stay perfectly on topic and fully address the message. 

Will try later but for now just want to say I do so dig you, FG, lol - even with all the head spinning and some thumping  - you're very cool!!!  Indeed. 

 

[Guest [mu...]]

Benzobuddies is what many would consider "alternative" information and it wasn't too long ago that there was a smear campaign that targeted at BB, the main implication being that it is a "dangerous cult" with implication of ties to scientology. Read that article and tell me if any of this sounds familiar.

 

 

Ha! I was thinking the same thing even as I posted that link. If you get a chance, please research the websites referred to in the article as well (they're much more informative than the article itself, and spend time dismantling his ideas without the sensationalist "cult" language).

 

As for our differences regarding personal responsibility vs. issues of equality - you're right, we'll probably never see eye to eye. Just curious though, for someone dependent on and iatrogenically harmed by benzos: do you really view the problem mainly in terms of personal responsibility? If not, how do you justify the difference between this and other issues of personal responsibility vs. injustice?

[[Fl...]]

Will try later but for now just want to say I do so dig you, FG, lol - even with all the head spinning and some thumping  - you're very cool!!!  Indeed. 

 

 

The feeling is mutual 

[Guest [mu...]]

 

Oh, don't steal my thunder now!  Wait until I manage to take on Molyneux.  Like I said, I did my homework first.  And, sadly, sigh, I do have way too much time on my hands.

Stay tuned, grab the popcorn, it promises to be quite a riot!

 

Haha, I'll definitely come back for this! Molyneux's videos definitely had me laughing out loud... that man is no philosopher!

[[Fl...]]

Ha! I was thinking the same thing even as I posted that link. If you get a chance, please research the websites referred to in the article as well (they're much more informative than the article itself, and spend time dismantling his ideas without the sensationalist "cult" language).

 

Sounds interesting. I will try to remember to do that.

 

As for our differences regarding personal responsibility vs. issues of equality - you're right, we'll probably never see eye to eye. Just curious though, for someone dependent on and iatrogenically harmed by benzos: do you really view the problem mainly in terms of personal responsibility? If not, how do you justify the difference between this and other issues of personal responsibility vs. injustice?

 

Yes and no. I think we do share some responsibility in this and even more importantly society in general needs to shoulder some of the blame due to the quick fix culture that has evolved over the years.

 

A ton of the blame gets heaped on doctors and they are certainly not innocent in this but the problem is much bigger than that and is more a regulatory failure than anything, so I put a lot of the blame on the FDA. But of course, these are people who are hired by our government so it does start to circle back to "we the people".

 

I do believe that a lot of our problems stem from flawed basic political ideologies but I don't think that either party is completely innocent or guilty in regards to these drug issues. I think the case could be made for a smaller and less complicated government being better suited to avoid places for gray areas and shady dealings to exist but that would take us off in another direction.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Great discussion, BTW. It's killing my work productivity but I think we are finding some common ground now that the dust has settled.

[[az...]]

Yeah, um no. The attacks started on single mothers in general...

 

I'm not ok with that.

 

Attacking people who aren't even here to defend themselves against circular reasoning and gaslighting directed at the ones (or one) who actually have/had first-hand life experience on this thread who didn't want to bow down to misogyny in blatant form...

 

So, no, I don't think that's cool.

 

If you're going to slice a whole segment of the population in all kinds of ways and reduce them to a huge sample of stacked, purposely doctored statistics and not hear the real people in front of you... You may have someone tell you that you've got it twisted.

 

If that's an attack, it was provoked... And I stood up for myself and my own dignity and person I love dearly and admire and you can take all that abusive pill language and swallow it.

 

So glad I blocked someone for the first time... So sorry I can still see this person's ridiculous lies in a quote on another response.

 

No, not cool. Not cool at all. If you're going to generalize and put whole classes of people into steriotypes and labels that suit your agenda... Fully expect those real living beings you've called out and dehumanized with creepy, brainwashing rhetoric and propaganda that you and others like you would like to tell everyone is THE TRUTH and the only truth there is, to have a few things to say about it and defend themselves.

 

Oh poor unpopular opinion guy, look at all the "bashing" you took in this thread. I feel extremely sorry for you... Now go out and live as a woman for a lifetime, have the tables turned on you so that you are blindsided and forced to be a single mother-- believe me, it is no picknick to do one, either or both...

 

Do that. Then come back here and let's see how much you have to say.

 

See how that works out for you. Obviously it can't happen, you can never walk this life as a female and you will never be a mother, but I wonder how you would deal, if it were possible.

 

Yeah not cool at all in my book. Probably one of the lowest, most cowardly approaches- criticizing people you know nothing about and who's struggles you have no reference for and no life experience being as and who's struggles you have not THE FAINTEST CLUE about.

 

Never thought I'd need to block anyone on here at all.

 

Nice try.

 

Peace out! Not returning at all to this thread... Ever. And I'd do more to explain and illustrate, however it's really not my job to try and give someone a conscience or try to defend myself and others from silly, childish intellectualizations that border on inhumane and sociopathic territory, with a "nice guy" guise.

 

No thanks!

 

 

[[...]]

Azalea, I'm so sorry this topic has hit such a raw nerve with you, I get it, I totally get it.  Just hugs, okay, big hugs, I'm sorry. 

Look after yourself and your own healing, just let that be your priority.  Stay away from anything that triggers you, okay.

 

[[...]]

So slightly off topic but, at the same time very pertinent.

 

Is everyone aware of the Myers-Brigg Personality Types?  Quoted from Wikipedia:

The Myers–Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is an introspective self-report questionnaire designed to indicate psychological preferences in how people perceive the world and make decisions.[

 

It is based on the typological theory proposed by Carl Jung who had speculated that there are four principal psychological functions by which humans experience the world – sensation, intuition, feeling, and thinking – and that one of these four functions is dominant for a person most of the time. The MBTI was constructed for normal populations and emphasizes the value of naturally occurring differences. "The underlying assumption of the MBTI is that we all have specific preferences in the way we construe our experiences, and these preferences underlie our interests, needs, values, and motivation."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indicator

 

I first attended a workshop over twenty years ago and, for fun, have re-taken the test several times over the years.  Always with the same result.  I find it surprisingly accurate.  There are sixteen personality types and I've accurately forecast the type of many friends and family members, and tend to see it play out often in different situations.  Such as debating a point, of course.  (I'm pretty sure I could take a very good stab at FG's type, hah).

 

I mention this to illustrate again how different we all are - exactly as has been said here time and time again - and how we've all observed this thread play out. 

Is there any consensus yet that one red pill for all just does not exist.  Period. 

 

 

PS:  If anyone wants to try it for fun ... https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

[[co...]]

I took it-- INTP here, the logician. I just don't have time to address the topics on this thread, they fly by too fast! But I enjoy reading it when I get the chance. I feel kind of cheated by you mutuuraia because you asked many questions but won't be back to see the answers. I think your questions are slanted to your world view and designed with your answer already in mind. I would like to answer them and show why I think this but what's the use? Just as a for instance, you ask if poverty and lack of education are better predictors than single motherhood but you ignore the role of single motherhood in perpetuating poverty and lack of education! Also you disparage statistics, but quote a 92% stat to bolster your point and make it seem inarguable. But in spite of all this, couldn't we agree that single parenthood is not ideal and should be discouraged? Then we could make real progress in helping people. Debating poverty versus single motherhood seems chicken-egg to me. How do we break the cycle? You favor "raising people out of poverty" but in real world terms, unless they earn it, it amounts to handouts for single mothers. Giving single mothers all the money in the world will not replace fathers and will only result in more single motherhood. "How did you get rich?" "I kicked my husband to the curb." Not everyone, in fact most, are not as principled as you and money is their prime motivator. Wish I had time for more, Take care all!

[[ho...]]

I'm a campaigner.....how fun and spot on that test was....thank you for that. I think everyone here should take the test and then post their results. That was really really insightful and just plain fun!! What fun!!! 😙😙😙

[[...]]

I'm a campaigner.....how fun and spot on that test was....thank you for that. I think everyone here should take the test and then post their results. That was really really insightful and just plain fun!! What fun!!! 😙😙😙

 

Snap, me too, ENFP! 

[[Be...]]

I think one of the solutions to stopping all the babies born to single mothers is for women to start acting more modestly and not spreading their legs for every Tom, Dick--no pun intended--,and Harry, that walks by.  Our new sexual revolution of rampant promiscuous sex outside of wedlock is the main reason there are so many single mothers now, IMO.  Look at all the disgusting sexual images there are on mainstream media?  When I was a teen and young lady, you'd never have that filthy pornography on mainstream media.  Nearly all the female entertainers and singers dress like whores.  This says to young girls and ladies that's it's ok to act like a whore and have sex with anyone you want to.  It's appalling to see women on TV dressed in nothing and acting so suggestively.  Most women don't even act like that in real life, but still grow up with the message that sex with anyone is ok, not someone you want to have a serious relationship with and possibly marry.  There was more modesty in how women dressed and acted when I was younger, and there was more of a stigma about single-motherhood because most ppl. saw it as having sex outside of marriage, which was frowned upon in the earlier decades.  Christian values permeated our culture in the 50's and earlier and our morals and values have been going downhill ever since.  Free-love 60's started the decline of our culture, IMO.   

[[ho...]]

Abcd,

 

How true! And here we are finding that reason to smile! Lol...I just love it!! 😄😄😄

[[Fl...]]

I am really glad azalea posted this and I wouldn't normally call someone out like this but since her accusations are unfounded and this is an example of blue pill hypocrisy, evasion and manipulation at it's finest I am going to use this to illustrate how blue pill people react when they are faced with information they don't like and they have no good argument to back up their stance.

 

Yeah, um no. The attacks started on single mothers in general...

 

I'm not ok with that.

 

Example #1- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, misrepresent the other person's argument. How exactly is stating that single motherhood (in general) is bad for society attacking anyone?

 

Attacking people who aren't even here to defend themselves against circular reasoning and gaslighting directed at the ones (or one) who actually have/had first-hand life experience on this thread who didn't want to bow down to misogyny in blatant form...

 

Example #2- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, accuse the other side of emotional abuse. Asking someone to look at statistics that disprove their argument is not gaslighting.

 

Example 3- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, trivialize the other person's experience. I don't have to be a single mother or a child who was raised by a single mother to present a valid argument. Matter of fact it might make me better equipped to look at the situation objectively. Molyneux was raised by a single mother.

 

Example 4- (and this is a BIG one!) when you don't agree with the argument, resort to shaming and name calling. I can't utter one critical word against something that only applies to a certain group of women without being called a woman hater. This is absolutely inexcusable, I resent that and I have zero respect for someone who makes such a blatantly slanderous accusation.

 

If you're going to slice a whole segment of the population in all kinds of ways and reduce them to a huge sample of stacked, purposely doctored statistics and not hear the real people in front of you... You may have someone tell you that you've got it twisted.

 

Example 4- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, attack the means the other person is using to back up their argument and make no effort to provide evidence to back up your own argument.

 

Example 5- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, use your own singular personal experience to try to prove that the other person's argument is invalid. "I was raised by a single mother and I turned out fine" doesn't prove anything and anyone who took the time to look at the statistics could have easily seen for themselves that this isn't an all or nothing thing.

 

If that's an attack, it was provoked... And I stood up for myself and my own dignity and person I love dearly and admire and you can take all that abusive pill language and swallow it.

 

Example 6- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, accuse the other person of launching a personal attack on you and your family. The only personal attacks I have seen on this thread have came from one particular poster, and it wasn't me.

 

So glad I blocked someone for the first time... So sorry I can still see this person's ridiculous lies in a quote on another response.

 

Example 7- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, refuse to engage in any further discourse and launch more personal attacks, shouting insults and covering your ears as you exit.

 

No, not cool. Not cool at all. If you're going to generalize and put whole classes of people into steriotypes and labels that suit your agenda... Fully expect those real living beings you've called out and dehumanized with creepy, brainwashing rhetoric and propaganda that you and others like you would like to tell everyone is THE TRUTH and the only truth there is, to have a few things to say about it and defend themselves.

 

Example 8- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, stomp your feet and throw out even more attacks. insults and accusations.

 

Oh poor unpopular opinion guy, look at all the "bashing" you took in this thread. I feel extremely sorry for you... Now go out and live as a woman for a lifetime, have the tables turned on you so that you are blindsided and forced to be a single mother-- believe me, it is no picknick to do one, either or both...

 

Example 9- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, project your own insecurities on the other person, and do so in very a childish manner. I don't remember complaining about being picked on.

 

Yeah not cool at all in my book. Probably one of the lowest, most cowardly approaches- criticizing people you know nothing about and who's struggles you have no reference for and no life experience being as and who's struggles you have not THE FAINTEST CLUE about.

 

Example 10- when you don't like the message and you have no argument, throw out more smoke and mirrors to avoid having a reasonable debate. The "you don't know someone else's struggles!" line is not an argument. Not even close to an argument. It is COMPLETELY beside the point but it is a good way to attempt to shut down a reasonable debate.

 

Peace out! Not returning at all to this thread... Ever. And I'd do more to explain and illustrate, however it's really not my job to try and give someone a conscience or try to defend myself and others from silly, childish intellectualizations that border on inhumane and sociopathic territory, with a "nice guy" guise.

 

This person has absolutely zero desire to engage in any kind of conversation about any topic she doesn't agree with. Her mind is 100% made up and anyone who doesn't agree with her is a misogynist, a sociopath, childish, a coward, creepy, a liar and an abuser. All without taking any time to look at the evidence that was presented and without presenting any kind of rational argument to justify her stance or to back up her slanderous attack.

 

This is the epitome of blue pill. Bitter, angry, hateful, resentful, unreasonable and intolerant bigotry.

[[Fl...]]

There are sixteen personality types and I've accurately forecast the type of many friends and family members, and tend to see it play out often in different situations.  Such as debating a point, of course.  (I'm pretty sure I could take a very good stab at FG's type, hah).

 

Well? What is your guess?

 

I mention this to illustrate again how different we all are - exactly as has been said here time and time again - and how we've all observed this thread play out.

 

The main difference is in the (political?) ideologies but yes, personality type also plays a role.

 

Is there any consensus yet that one red pill for all just does not exist.  Period. 

 

One red pill for all does exist. I just don't think it is possible for any one person to truly find it.

 

I took it-- INTP here. I just don't have time to address the topics on this thread, they fly by too fast! But I enjoy reading it when I get the chance. I feel kind of cheated by you mutuuraia because you asked many questions but won't be back to see the answer

 

Of course she will be back. THEY ALL COME BACK. Muahahahahahahaha!!!!!

 

Giving single mothers all the money in the world will not replace fathers and will only result in more single motherhood.

 

That's what it boils down to and that is why it is so important to approach the problem from the angle of encouraging women to make good choices. My beef is not that we aren't out there shaming every single mother regardless of their situation, the big issue for me is that most all accountability has disappeared. It doesn't matter if you are a single mother  by factors that are completely out of control, if you are a single mother by choice and planning or if you are a single mother because you make nothing but bad decisions, society makes no distinction. Take away all accountability and add monetary incentives and the problem will never go away.

 

Christian values permeated our culture in the 50's and earlier and our morals and values have been going downhill ever since.  Free-love 60's started the decline of our culture, IMO.   

 

Molyneux is an atheist but he has talked a lot recently about how he has come to appreciate religion and specifically christianity for the good that it brings society. I am not particularly religious myself but I can see his point.

 

I agree with your whole message and it's sad that these traditional values have been destroyed. I'm no saint myself (who is?) but if you look at it from a rational perspective it's easy to see how these values have helped to build a healthy and happy society. Many, many of the social problems we face today weren't around back in the days were these traditional values were the norm and I don't see how anyone could claim that there is no connection.

[[co...]]

Becksblue-- good post. FG solid refutation. Offense was taken when none was intended. That will always happen in these kinds of discussions. Abcd, what's your guess at FG's type and did you have mine pegged?

[[Be...]]

Many values I grew up with are time-tested values to keep us from suffering, and can be called traditional.  Many more people when I was a kid did go to church and learn good values from the bible and it permeated the families and our culture for the most part then.  Not so now.  You don't have to be a christian or read the bible to know what is good for society and what isn't and which leads to suffering.  If something leads to suffering, it's not good for society or the person. 

[[Be...]]

I think FG is an extrovert and intellectual type, maybe I'm wrong.  Just thought I would take a stab at it. 

[[...]]

Becksblue-- good post. FG solid refutation. Offense was taken when none was intended. That will always happen in these kinds of discussions. Abcd, what's your guess at FG's type and did you have mine pegged?

 

Confused, I don't know you nearly well enough.  I was a regular lurker on the political thread, though, and was disappointed when it was locked (but agreed it was the correct decision).  And I like to think I was smart enough not to have dipped my toe in there.   

 

I'm working on your type, FG, lol.  I'm pretty confident of the middle two letters, the other two I'm finding a little tougher.  I shall return. 

 

Becks, were you able to pull up the link and do the test?  By the way, I wish I could also comment on your comments.  No can do, way too much pain happening here.  Sigh. 

 

Wow, how do we veer off in so many different directions? 

 

 

 

Is there any consensus yet that one red pill for all just does not exist.  Period. 

 

One red pill for all does exist. I just don't think it is possible for any one person to truly find it.

 

 

But it does exist?  And it's always 100% red?  Not ever pink or, (as Mutuuraia would say) "GASP" specks of blue in it?  Does it always remain 100% red throughout the decades/centuries?

 

I'm trying to think of an example.  I guess one plus one will always equal two.  Unless Common Core has something to say about that.

[[Be...]]

abcd, I can't take the personality type tests anymore.  I've got early dementia and brain damage from these pills and the test won't reflect my true nature now.  I'm not the person I used to be.  Thanks for asking and including me in your group discussion about personality types.  Mostly, I'm ignored on this forum because I'm too depressing. 

[[ho...]]

Becks,

Don't be silly...you aren't that depressing. Besides this is the exact kind of place that needs people just like yourself. Don't dis count yourself! We all matter and have something to say!! 😄