Taking the Red Pill- the importance of being aware of your own best interest

[[Fl...]]

I was never able to find how and where single mothers came in... I guess I'm pretty lost in w/d land.

 

Maybe it's because I haven't watched the videos.

 

I brought up the subject of single motherhood as an example of a controversial red pill/blue pill topic that is not political in nature. My stance is that as a whole, single motherhood is damaging for children and bad for society and this is something that is easy to demonstrate with statistics that show that kids from single mother homes do not fare nearly as well as children from two parent homes (or even single father homes).

 

So with the mountain of evidence that shows that children and societies are harmed by this it is a good gauge of whether or not someone is taking the red or the blue pill. If you can sit through this mountain of statistics and a good explanation of how everything fits together, here is one of the videos that will shed some light on the subject- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1xf78EltKM

 

Here is a summary quoted from the video page-

 

Single Mothers are talked about in glowing terms for their hard-work, determination and fortitude - but what is the truth about single moms?

 

Motherhood has evolved quite a bit over the last fifty years: more women are having their children later in life - or in less traditional ways: before and outside marriage. Single motherhood has become so incredibly common that it is projected that soon - half of all children will live with a single mom at some point before the age of eighteen.

 

What kind of impact does single motherhood have on society? What impact does single motherhood have on children? Are Fathers important - and what impact does growing up in a fatherless home have? What is the Truth About Single Moms?

[[az...]]

Oh wow, seriously... I listened to the first minute on the first link on the reply above and had to stop. What a creep.

 

My mom's a single mom who raised me and didn't take a penny from the government or my absent father- she never even wanted to, let alone attempt any such thing. And he opens with single mother's aren't strong... Right. Not wasting my time with that nutcase.

[[az...]]

How is it a mother and her child's/children's fault every time when a man doesn't step into, and fulfill, the role he signed up for ?

 

 

[[az...]]

Obviously it is less than ideal not to have both parents fully present and involved in raising any children they have together. Doesn't take a member of MENSA to figure that one out.

 

Holy cr*p, speechless.

[[Fl...]]

Lots to respond to, FG, I'll have to come back when I'm able.

 

By the way, yes of course I did my homework before commenting.  I went in search of the red pill.    Already watched that video, AND another one of his on single moms, this one:

 

Good for you! Can't wait to hear your comments.

 

I am not familiar with the controversy article so I can't comment on it but again, always consider the source. Anyone who has a public profile has a target on their back, ESPECIALLY people who speak unpopular truths.

 

 

[[...]]

Oh wow, seriously... I listened to the first minute on the first link on the reply above and had to stop. What a creep.

 

My mom's a single mom who raised me and didn't take a penny from the government or my absent father- she never even wanted to, let alone attempt any such thing. And he opens with single mother's aren't strong... Right. Not wasting my time with that nutcase.

 

:laugh:

 

I'm tellin' ya, FG, you gotta select your examples more carefully!

 

:laugh:

[[Be...]]

I've heard alot about single moms having trouble disciplining their teen sons, who are often bigger and taller and certainly stronger than mom.  Isn't it best if dad's around to put the unruly teen son in his place when he gets out of hand?  Moms often don't have the power of voice or even physical power if needed to discipline unruly sons.  Does that son grow up to be a bully and even abusive towards women?  My sister and BIL have been married for over 30 years and they have two sons.  I remember visiting with them and the boys would get wild and only dad could calm them down and make them act right.  No way could my sister assert herself with those tough boys, my sister isn't a tough person and never raised her voice.  Always kind and gentle.  She needed her husband to keep order in the home with the kids.  The boys are grown now and my sister never reports any problems with them.  My friend had a dad who was never home and when he was at home never disciplined his sons when they would start fighting.  His brothers grew up to be bullies and mean and abusive toward women.  I think it's good to have dads at home until the kids grow up to keep order in the house and to teach the boys how to be men and respectful of others and women.  Even daughters without a father figure can grow up to be unruly and abusive.  Of course, many single mothers can raise wonderful sons, I just think sometimes some sons need a strong father figure around. 

[[Fl...]]

Oh wow, seriously... I listened to the first minute on the first link on the reply above and had to stop. What a creep.

 

I would encourage you to watch the ENTIRE video that I posted a few comments back. The video you watched doesn't cite stats, the other one does and when it's broken down it will explain his stance on the subject.

 

My mom's a single mom who raised me and didn't take a penny from the government or my absent father- she never even wanted to, let alone attempt any such thing. And he opens with single mother's aren't strong... Right. Not wasting my time with that nutcase.

 

This is a common blue pill argument. No one is claiming that this applies to every case but the statistics don't lie.

 

How is it a mother and her child's/children's fault every time when a man doesn't step into, and fulfill, the role he signed up for ?

 

That is a different topic and it doesn't absolve women of their responsibility in the choices they made that result. Men who refuse to take care of their kids are just as bad but women are the gatekeepers of sex and share just as much responsibility for ensuring that their offspring are raised and cared for properly.

 

If you have opinions on how fathers neglect their role as parents in relation to red pill/blue pill please post them (and I will probably agree with you), but that isn't a counterargument to the topic of single motherhood being bad.

 

Obviously it is less than ideal not to have both parents fully present and involved in raising any children they have together. Doesn't take a member of MENSA to figure that one out.

 

Holy cr*p, speechless.

 

If that is so obvious, why does society treat single mothers like heroes? Wouldn't it be beneficial to encourage them to make better choices?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

FG, I agree with everything you're saying.  I've read and heard about those stats too about single mothers.  Kids need mom and dad at home.  I'm not a big fan of daycare for a child either at too early of an age. 

[[Fl...]]

 

:laugh:

 

I'm tellin' ya, FG, you gotta select your examples more carefully!

 

:laugh:

 

I told you the red pill is bitter and hard to swallow.

 

I didn't post the video she is referring to and that's why I would never post something like that (that is more of a rant and devoid of statistics) to introduce people to these ideas. People are already riled up when they hear information that challenges their preconceptions so you have to slip the pill in a piece of cheese or a jelly donut or they won't even try to swallow it.

 

I've heard alot about single moms having trouble disciplining their teen sons, who are often bigger and taller and certainly stronger than mom.  Isn't it best if dad's around to put the unruly teen son in his place when he gets out of hand?  Moms often don't have the power of voice or even physical power if needed to discipline unruly sons.  Does that son grow up to be a bully and even abusive towards women?  My sister and BIL have been married for over 30 years and they have two sons.  I remember visiting with them and the boys would get wild and only dad could calm them down and make them act right.  No way could my sister assert herself with those tough boys, my sister isn't a tough person and never raised her voice.  Always kind and gentle.  She needed her husband to keep order in the home with the kids.  The boys are grown now and my sister never reports any problems with them.  My friend had a dad who was never home and when he was at home never disciplined his sons when they would start fighting.  His brothers grew up to be bullies and mean and abusive toward women.  I think it's good to have dads at home until the kids grow up to keep order in the house and to teach the boys how to be men and respectful of others and women.  Even daughters without a father figure can grow up to be unruly and abusive.  Of course, many single mothers can raise wonderful sons, I just think sometimes some sons need a strong father figure around. 

 

Absolutely, but it goes a lot deeper than that.

 

Masculinity is demonized in today's society (BLUE PILL!) but it has benefits and drawbacks just like femininity and it is just as important to have a positive masculine role model present as it is to have a positive feminine role model, and this starts at a very early age. The mother certainly plays a bigger role with infants but having a dad around is super important as the child begins to develop.

 

If you watch the Molyneux video that I posted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1xf78EltKM he covers many of the reasons why it is very important to have a father around.

 

Actually, Molyneux has a whole series on parenting that is red pill but maybe not a in your face as his gender politics materials, if anyone is interested- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMNj_r5bccUwZY7RCZnS2e5-vjaA7wSNw

[[...]]

Like I said, I'm sure the majority of us would prefer the ideal two parent home.  That's not the topic under debate, is it?

 

So, for argument's sake, why not we all assume we're all on the same page ... ignoring, if possible any specific points he makes and "stats" and "studies" he quotes, which takes up the majority of the video.

 

The long and the short of the video, for those who don't have the time and/or inclination to listen to it, is him emphasizing all the pitfalls and how detrimental it is for the kid who is raised by a single mother.

 

Just listen to his closing comments here, this link will take you directly to them:

 

https://youtu.be/o1xf78EltKM?t=1h7m30s

 

His bottom line is that both men and women, but ESPECIALLY women, need to make better decisions about who they're having children with.  Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  In other words, make sure we find that extra special red pill, the one with a crystal ball in it.  And, again, the main onus falls on the woman. 

 

Like seriously, what are we even debating here?  See how easy it is to go off topic.

[[Be...]]

I grew up in the sixties and seventies when most of us had mom and dad at home and it was very unusual to see a single mom.  That masculine energy needs to be in the home for order and stability and dad also needs to be out working to take care of his family.  That's his role.  I'm all for mom staying at home and nurturing the kids, but it's nearly impossible now in this wrecked economy.  If I would have had my choice in life, I would have been a stay-at-home mom and never worked a single day in my life outside the home.  I don't like the workplace, it's exhausting and too masculine-oriented, all the jobs I've worked at.  Lots of mental and/or physical stress and too many hours.  I always wanted someone else to be the breadwinner and I'd stay at home and cook and clean and raise kids.  That always felt right for me as a woman.  My sister is now working outside the home, but it's an empty nest now for her.  Both my sisters never worked when their kids were young.  Their husbands brought home the paychecks.   

[[Fl...]]

FG, I agree with everything you're saying.  I've read and heard about those stats too about single mothers.  Kids mean mom and dad at home.  I'm not a big fan of daycare for a child either at too early of an age.

 

That opens up a whole new red pill discussion about two income families and all of the things that entails. The topics are endless....

 

If everyone keeps this discussion civil so it doesn't it locked I have a feeling I am going to have to bow out at some point or I won't be able to get anything done!

 

His bottom line is that both men and women, but ESPECIALLY women, need to make better decisions about who they're having children with.  Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  In other words, make sure we find that extra special red pill, the one with a crystal ball in it.  And, again, the main onus falls on the woman. 

 

The reason for this is simple. Women are the gatekeepers of sex. This is a biological reality the stems from sperm being cheap and eggs being expensive (men can father many more children than women can birth). Women are ultimately in control of the sexual encounter.

 

That doesn't absolve men of their role, but that is a different topic. The point is that society today has no qualms with chastising dead beat dads but at the same time they celebrate single motherhood. And in almost every case it is made out to be the father's fault that the couple is not together to raise the children. It takes two to tango and if we are going to criticize men for their role in this we have to do the same to women, especially since they are the ones who hold the key to the womb.

[[Be...]]

FG, I agree with everything you're saying.  I've read and heard about those stats too about single mothers.  Kids need mom and dad at home.  I'm not a big fan of daycare for a child either at too early of an age.

 

That opens up a whole new red pill discussion about two income families and all of the things that entails. The topics are endless....

 

If everyone keeps this discussion civil so it doesn't it locked I have a feeling I am going to have to bow out at some point or I won't be able to get anything done!

 

His bottom line is that both men and women, but ESPECIALLY women, need to make better decisions about who they're having children with.  Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  In other words, make sure we find that extra special red pill, the one with a crystal ball in it.  And, again, the main onus falls on the woman. 

 

The reason for this is simple. Women are the gatekeepers of sex. This is a biological reality the stems from sperm being cheap and eggs being expensive (men can father many more children than women can birth). Women are ultimately in control of the sexual encounter.

 

That doesn't absolve men of their role, but that is a different topic. The point is that society today has no qualms with chastising dead beat dads but at the same time they celebrate single motherhood. And in almost every case it is made out to be the father's fault that the couple is not together to raise the children. It takes two to tango and if we are going to criticize men for their role in this we have to do the same to women, especially since they are the ones who hold the key to the womb.

 

Agree with that one, too.  Onus is on the woman to monitor that gate, but then the biological sex drive in both men and women comes in to play then, which makes bolting the gate very difficult. 

[[az...]]

Wow again. I am not a statistic... I am a human being, so please don't reduce me to one.

 

Treated like heros, single mothers- far from it. Try being a single mom before possibly 2005... Like back in the 80's and 90's and early 2000's, even. Not such a glorified position. Not even just that imagine judgement and ostracism and odd looks and being ignored and more. There was total social stigma, not that long ago. And it sucked to live it, I know... I don't need any statistics for that.

 

When a child is conceived there are two parties involved, how easy it is to rest all the blame on a woman when you don't know her story at all. What about fathers who die early in their children's lives, do we need to shun those mothers and their children as well ? How do you know my story, or what happened in my life or my mother's or father's... You don't. Please don't make reductionist assumptions based on statistics and then lump all of humanity that falls in to a certain "defined" or "studied" segment of the population together so that you can demonize, demoralize and judge them... Or do. Your choice.

 

Statistics, numbers... Sure- let's go there and add up all the deadbeat dads out there, or sick or deceaced fathers and get the full story behind each one of those. Real stories, and live in the place of the mom and the child and then hear back about it from whomever so easily judges single moms.

 

I don't need a statistic to tell me what 31 years of living on this planet has very painfully shown me- right in my face of my every day waking life.

 

Are you about to suggest so many mothers are at fault for the actions of the men who father their child or children? Is this something you really want to put out there... That it's usually the woman's fault and that she's brought about his absence in their lives single-handedly ?

 

Are you kidding? This is all far too ridiculous for me to continue trying to explain.

 

And to watch past the point I got to in the first video and wait for statistics would be adding insult to injury.

 

My mom and I never took, got or asked for a dime. And yes, she is strong. And yes, it would have been nice to have the other responsible party in her pregnancy follow up on something he was equally involved in and responsible for... I have the wounds to show for it and my mom bore the weight of the responsibility of two adults who both made a decision. My dad should have stepped up, that was not her fault. No matter what, two are responsible... To say such inflammatory comments on what a single mother is and how she got to be one and how she handles that is a territory of judgement that should be approached with respect and humanity and love and compassion.

 

These aren't just "statistics," these are people's lives: so go ahead and cast aspersions, I'm done here. And if it's free discussion, it's my free right to say that surviving my life has been an emotional experience... Emotion is a part of who we are as human beings, and I for one don't need to take anyone's decision or judgement or assessment on my life or that of those who've done positively selfless things out of love for me, LOVE, to heart.

[[Fl...]]

I grew up in the sixties and seventies when most of us had mom and dad at home and it was very unusual to see a single mom.  That masculine energy needs to be in the home for order and stability and dad also needs to be out working to take care of his family.  That's his role.  I'm all for mom staying at home and nurturing the kids, but it's nearly impossible now in this wrecked economy.  If I would have had my choice in life, I would have been a stay-at-home mom and never worked a single day in my life outside the home.  I don't like the workplace, it's exhausting and too masculine-oriented, all the jobs I've worked at.  Lots of mental and/or physical stress and too many hours.  I always wanted someone else to be the breadwinner and I'd stay at home and cook and clean and raise kids.  That always felt right for me as a woman.  My sister is now working outside the home, but it's an empty nest now for her.  Both my sisters never worked when their kids were young.  Their husbands brought home the paychecks. 

 

I have a tremendous amount of respect for women who choose to stay at home and raise their kids. Modern feminism tries to sell women a bill of goods by convincing them that being a stay at home mother is beneath them but statistics tell us that women in general were happier back when most of them concentrated on raising a family. I would guess that a lot of women feel the same way as you do deep down inside but with their blue pill indoctrination they believe that they have to have a career to be "worthy". What a crock. Motherhood is the most noble profession the world has ever known.

[[az...]]

I'm not so sure I've heard much at all about deadbeat dads, not nearly enough. They're usually free to go and be the spineless cowards they are with no consequence whatever... Maybe they'll be forced by a court to pay child support, at the very most.

[[az...]]

What about rape... ? Is it also a woman's fault who is raped ? Being that she is the gatekeeper of her sexuality and all...

 

"Rape and attempted rape are very much silent assassins. Only 16 percent of rape victims actually report an incident to the police, which means the statistics we have about rape in the United States barely reflect the grim reality. The World Health Organization has found domestic and sexual violence affects 30-60 percent of women in most countries. And the majority of these offenses are committed by someone the victim knows or at least recognizes.

 

Perhaps the most disturbing truth is that the rape perpetrator will probably victimize seven to nine women before he is jailed.

 

In our increasingly violent collective, women must often yield to an incessant voice that warns: Be careful where you walk. Be careful where you park. Be careful where you go. Be careful what you wear. Be careful what you say. . . "

 

Tony Robins, from the forward he wrote in "Survive the Unthinkable; a Total Guide to Women's Self-Protection" by Tim Larkin, p. viii.

 

 

[[Fl...]]

Wow again. I am not a statistic... I am a human being, so please don't reduce me to one.

 

I'm not going to answer your post point by point because it basically comes down to the fact that you either haven't read what I posted or you are completely misinterpreting what I said. 

 

It is pretty unfair to accuse me of reducing you to a statistic when I very clearly did no such thing. Should we ignore the facts because you are an exception and when someone points out statistics you believe they are talking about you specifically?

 

I'm not so sure I've heard much at all about deadbeat dads, not nearly enough. They're usually free to go and be the spineless cowards they are with no consequence whatever... Maybe they'll be forced by a court to pay child support, at the very most.

 

If you feel like there is something about deadbeat dads that relates to this discussion, by all means post it but please keep it civil.

 

 

[[...]]

 

When a child is conceived there are two parties involved, how easy it is to rest all the blame on a woman when you don't know her story at all. What about fathers who die early in their children's lives, do we need to shun those mothers and their children as well ? How do you know my story, or what happened in my life or my mother's or father's... You don't. Please don't make reductionist assumptions based on statistics and then lump all of humanity that falls in to a certain "defined" or "studied" segment of the population together so that you can demonize, demoralize and judge them... Or do. Your choice.

 

 

  Azalea, hugs! 

 

Apparently, according to him, they're called "widows", not single mothers.  So they're exempt, according to him.  Don't know whether that means the kids in this case will grow up to be any less delinquent ... according to the stats of course.

 

Becks, FYI, he's not just talking about women having children out of wedlock. 

 

Okay, I'm also electing to bow out of any more Molyneux discussion.

 

[[Fl...]]

There's still a lot of hostility toward the general message but no one is challenging the way he arrives at his conclusions.

 

And there is a big disconnect with the statistics issue. No one is arguing that it isn't possible for single mother to raise healthy, well adjusted children, we are arguing that there have been multiple studies done that show that this is the exception and not the rule.

 

Everyone is getting upset about statistics being applied so maybe we should petition the FDA to disregard statistics when they approve new drugs. If 40% of people fare ok and 60% get sick, why ask any more questions? You might think this is an apples to oranges comparison but it really isn't. Both have the potential to cause harm to individuals and society so anyone interested in truth and informed consent should be able to see the parallels.

 

 

[[az...]]

 

 

If you feel like there is something about deadbeat dads that relates to this discussion, by all means post it but please keep it civil.

 

FG,

Civil would be acknowledging that as civilized human beings men hold equal responsibility in this equation... So if they are absent and it is not for a good reason (such as being deceased) we probably need to be addressing that side of things at the same time.

 

:hugs: abcd I won't be returning to this thread. Thank you for being reasonable, and kind.

[[Ch...]]

I grew up in the sixties and seventies when most of us had mom and dad at home and it was very unusual to see a single mom.  That masculine energy needs to be in the home for order and stability and dad also needs to be out working to take care of his family.  That's his role.  I'm all for mom staying at home and nurturing the kids, but it's nearly impossible now in this wrecked economy.  If I would have had my choice in life, I would have been a stay-at-home mom and never worked a single day in my life outside the home.  I don't like the workplace, it's exhausting and too masculine-oriented, all the jobs I've worked at.  Lots of mental and/or physical stress and too many hours.  I always wanted someone else to be the breadwinner and I'd stay at home and cook and clean and raise kids.  That always felt right for me as a woman.  My sister is now working outside the home, but it's an empty nest now for her.  Both my sisters never worked when their kids were young.  Their husbands brought home the paychecks. 

 

 

I have a tremendous amount of respect for women who choose to stay at home and raise their kids. Modern feminism tries to sell women a bill of goods by convincing them that being a stay at home mother is beneath them but statistics tell us that women in general were happier back when most of them concentrated on raising a family. I would guess that a lot of women feel the same way as you do deep down inside but with their blue pill indoctrination they believe that they have to have a career to be "worthy". What a crock. Motherhood is the most noble profession the world has ever known.

 

" ... statistics tell us that women in general were happier back when most of them concentrated on raising a family."

 

What statistics are those FG, could you please share your source?

 

I don't mean to veer off topic and cloud this lively discussion in any way but that statement kind of popped out at me because I remember some of the magazine ads from the 60s and 70s for benzos and they were specifically geared towards women and often portrayed them as "the harried housewife."

 

I haven't watched any of S. Molyneaux's videos. I started to watch one but became very bored.

 

Can you tell me if he has children? Just curious.

 

Chinook

 

 

[[co...]]

Why is it "the woman's right to choose" if she decides to terminate a pregnancy but a man's responsibility to support the baby if she decides not to abort it? The man gets no say so in either situation. Isn't this a double standard? To becksblue, I work in the construction industry and men are BRUTAL to each other, to the point where I have broken up several fistfights.  They will savage a weak male boss in a heartbeat! They're not treating women differently, that's how they treat perceived weakness. Also, they are no doubt very frustrated because although they can settle a dispute with physical aggression with a male coworker, they know there is no way in heck they could with a female, as most men are taught not to hit a woman. Believe me, abusers of women are held as the lowest of low by most men. Men with women coworkers and bosses must walk on eggshells and try to go against thousands of years of natural selection and instinct.

[[...]]

Why is it "the woman's right to choose" if she decides to terminate a pregnancy but a man's responsibility to support the baby if she decides not to abort it? The man gets no say so in either situation. Isn't this a double standard?

 

Yea, gotta hate it when that happens!  Especially when the man was miles away innocently minding his own business, "Hey, how'd that happen, whoa, why didn't you tell me the rules!"

Does an insurance policy exist for these "accidents"?  Might not be a bad idea but can you imagine the consequences!