Taking the Red Pill- the importance of being aware of your own best interest

[[ni...]]

 

Nature is cooperative but it is cooperative in a self interested way.

 

Humans would like to believe that there is no self interest in their "selfless" acts, but there absolutely is. Some people get a rush of feel good chemicals from building empires, and some get the same rush from being altruistic, and good and bad can come from both. But when it comes down to it, everyone is looking out for their own interests, and rightfully so. That is how we have survived for millennia. Both types of people just need to be aware that sometimes the safety nets that most of us take for granted won't protect them.

 

Well said

[Guest [mu...]]

I am saying that "greed" in and of itself isn't bad. Or at least what many people call greed. Of course there are degrees of selflessness and self interest in the world, but at the end of the day everyone has to lookout for themselves and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. We just have to keep that in mind when we make decisions that affect our own well being.

 

This is so sad to hear. All I can say is that I'm glad my husband doesn't think like this, or I'd be homeless and or / dead right now!

 

I don't want to get too political with this but I will say that in order for any ideology to succeed long term it cannot go against human nature. Our current system is flawed for sure but it isn't necessarily because of capitalism. My life was ruined by a drug that was created under this system, but 3 years ago my dad's life was saved by innovations that would have never been made had people not had financial incentive to solve problems. It's a double edged sword and the flaws are in the details, not the system as whole.

 

I believe most humans are fully capable of solving problems without needing to profit off of them, and would love to do so. Speak to any drug researcher about the barriers they face in producing medications for "non-profitable" third world diseases, for example.

 

But when it comes down to it, everyone is looking out for their own interests, and rightfully so. That is how we have survived for millennia. Both types of people just need to be aware that sometimes the safety nets that most of us take for granted won't protect them.

 

Again, this is a sad to hear, but I won't attempt to argue with someone's world view. I will however suggest the writings of Charles Eisenstein, whose unique perspective on self vs. other, the myth of scarcity, and market vs. gift economies you might enjoy.

 

[[Fl...]]

This is so sad to hear. All I can say is that I'm glad my husband doesn't think like this, or I'd be homeless and or / dead right now!

 

It is only sad if that is how you choose to view it.

 

Obviously your husband is a decent person and he sees the good in you, and he likely has an open enough mind to see this illness for what it really is. But make no mistake, in looking out for you he is looking out for himself or he wouldn't be doing it. We all act "selfishly", we just express it in different ways. Someone choosing not to acknowledge this in order to reconcile their view of the world doesn't make it any less true.

 

I believe most humans are fully capable of solving problems without needing to profit off of them, and would love to do so. Speak to any drug researcher about the barriers they face in producing medications for "non-profitable" third world diseases, for example.

 

Of course they are capable of it. As I said, some people gain satisfaction from helping others. As a matter of fact most people probably do in some form or another.

 

But everyone has to eat and most people want a roof over their heads along with clothing, clean water and other things that most of us see as basic necessities. And I can absolutely positively guarantee you that if it weren't for the profit motive that you vilify, we wouldn't have a fraction of the life saving drugs, medical equipment and infrastructure we have today. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The tablet, phone or computer you are typing on, the car you drive....pretty much everything you take for granted was made possible in large part because it gave people incentive to create things that people want and need. Anyone who criticizes the very system that allows them the freedom and comforts they take for granted obviously doesn't understand that their life would be completely different if the system they despise were to cease to exist.

 

Again, this is a sad to hear, but I won't attempt to argue with someone's world view. I will however suggest the writings of Charles Eisenstein, whose unique perspective on self vs. other, the myth of scarcity, and market vs. gift economies you might enjoy.

 

I poked around his website and found an essay on greed. He makes some very good points about other things that are mentioned but his entire argument around greed seems to center around the idea that anything you obtain over and above your basic needs is greed, and greed equals bad. I could spend hours poking holes in that logic but I will just say that even if it could be universally agreed upon where that line is (I'll bet anything Charles has everything he needs to live a comfortable life, and then some) I refer you back to the point about how the world would be a different place if this so called "greed" didn't exist, and I doubt that it would be a place either one of us would really want to live.

[[be...]]

I studied world events for decades and pulled the curtain back on what's really going on.  It's frightening.  I listened to endless hours of talk radio on the web and read many books and articles about the truth about things.  We can't talk politics on this forum anymore, but it's the truth that the banks run the world.  They print money out of thin air and manipulate our money supply and cause the recessions and depressions.  Hollywood force feeds us dark, depressing, lewd and disgusting media causing the breakdown of the psyche in the human race.  Nothing pleasant, moral or uplighting on the TV anymore, like when I was a kid.  No, they are not giving us what we want.  They are dictating what we will watch.  It's done this way so they can keep the masses suppressed and mentally broken and make sure the family unit is destroyed and doesn't live in harmony, then they can control us better.  A strong mind that can discern the truth would be a danger to them.  There would be upheaval and revolution and they would lose their power.

 

Great posts becks and FG:

 

It's true. Banks own us all. But they don't print money. The fed government does. But the banks told them to do so....$4 trillion in the last 10 years. What a mess. Printing money out of thin air..................

[[Be...]]

I studied world events for decades and pulled the curtain back on what's really going on.  It's frightening.  I listened to endless hours of talk radio on the web and read many books and articles about the truth about things.  We can't talk politics on this forum anymore, but it's the truth that the banks run the world.  They print money out of thin air and manipulate our money supply and cause the recessions and depressions.  Hollywood force feeds us dark, depressing, lewd and disgusting media causing the breakdown of the psyche in the human race.  Nothing pleasant, moral or uplighting on the TV anymore, like when I was a kid.  No, they are not giving us what we want.  They are dictating what we will watch.  It's done this way so they can keep the masses suppressed and mentally broken and make sure the family unit is destroyed and doesn't live in harmony, then they can control us better.  A strong mind that can discern the truth would be a danger to them.  There would be upheaval and revolution and they would lose their power.

 

Great posts becks and FG:

 

It's true. Banks own us all. But they don't print money. The fed government does. But the banks told them to do so....$4 trillion in the last 10 years. What a mess. Printing money out of thin air..................

 

I forgot.  I used to know that.  I'm not much of a detail person.  I'm better at gathering lots of infomation and putting it all together and then seeing the bigger picture, getting the gist of what's going on.  Since being disabled and on disability SSDI, I see how much the world ignores, abuses, and marginalizes the poor and suffering.  I get a pittance on SSDI, not enough to live on.  My state just passed the state budget and is going to tax the hell out of us poor through sin taxes with no other tax increases.  I believe in true communism, where all people live as equals.  I find the Essene community that lives throughout the US and world lives the right life.  Simple, practical and spiritual lives, transcending the materialism as much as possible. 

[[az...]]

So you're saying there is a massive conspiracy of human greed and stupidity, lol? 

 

Laugh out loud. Love this. Hahahaha!

[[fe...]]

I think I understand what u are saying. The red pill is reality and the blue is bullshit?? Now that I'm learning to face reality, even though I don't want any more pills, if I have to I'll take reality, or red..

[Guest [mu...]]

It is only sad if that is how you choose to view it. Obviously your husband is a decent person and he sees the good in you, and he likely has an open enough mind to see this illness for what it really is. But make no mistake, in looking out for you he is looking out for himself or he wouldn't be doing it. We all act "selfishly", we just express it in different ways. Someone choosing not to acknowledge this in order to reconcile their view of the world doesn't make it any less true.

 

What do you imagine my husband is getting out of this, exactly? I am physically and financial dependent on him and we have very little money. He has had to give up career goals. We have no kids, and likely never will because of this. We can barely have sex. For the first year or so I could barely be touched or make eye-contact. My body went from enviable to overweight in a matter of months. He became a caregiver at the ripe old age of 32, and does NOT enjoy any aspect of this traditionally feminine role and what it entails. We have no idea when or if this will ever end. If he were only looking out for himself and his own interests, he would have left long ago. Your failure to acknowledge that love, sacrifice, and caring can be more than mere transactions reflects just as much about you and your experiences and worldview as it does mine. Sometimes one party gets nothing positive in return, and may even be harmed in the process of helping, and yet they act anyway. What is your justification for this?

 

But everyone has to eat and most people want a roof over their heads along with clothing, clean water and other things that most of us see as basic necessities. And I can absolutely positively guarantee you that if it weren't for the profit motive that you vilify, we wouldn't have a fraction of the life saving drugs, medical equipment and infrastructure we have today. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The tablet, phone or computer you are typing on, the car you drive....pretty much everything you take for granted was made possible in large part because it gave people incentive to create things that people want and need.

 

Yikes. I think you swallowed the blue pill by mistake. If it wasn't for profit motives, none of us would be here in protracted withdrawal, because the drug companies would have looked into the evidence of brain damage rather than covering it up over 30 years ago. We also wouldn't have a health care system that boasts iatrogenic illness as the third leading cause of death, nor would we have a corrupted FDA that releases dangerous drugs to turn a profit.

 

Humans have always been inventive and creative, and to suggest that we wouldn't do so without the incentive of money is fundamentally misguided (see studies on the guaranteed basic income movement, for example). Think of all the people working menial jobs to survive who have amazing ideas and talents that will never see the light of day, or those that are unable to fund their sustainable energy project because it isn't as profitable as fracking or oil-drilling. 

 

Anyone who criticizes the very system that allows them the freedom and comforts they take for granted obviously doesn't understand that their life would be completely different if the system they despise were to cease to exist.

 

And anyone who <i>doesn't</i> criticize this system of profits over basic human rights and environmental welfare has failed to understand that <i>other</i> lives are made intolerable due to our increasing desire for goods and comforts, and that this system comes at the expense of planetary resources, ecocide, and deplorable working and living conditions (mostly for those in other countries) - indeed often denying others the right to clean water, land, good health, decent shelters, and food that they once had free access to. Our current rates of consumerism and production far outstrips any "need" for goods or comfort that we actually have. Constant upgrades and planned obsolescence are an unconscionable consequence of our wasteful, profit-driven system, and are only getting worse. This profit motive has costs that are hidden away from most Americans; if we were able to see everything that went into these comforts, I'd hope that most of us would make more sustainable choices, or at least demand another way of creating, consuming, and trading goods so that <i>everyone</i> benefits, with no unnecessary byproducts of harm and suffering. This gospel of greed and the endless pursuit of profit has lead to an environmental and human rights disaster that our planet (and our humanity) simply cannot afford or sustain.

 

I refer you back to the point about how the world would be a different place if this so called "greed" didn't exist, and I doubt that it would be a place either one of us would really want to live.

 

I disagree 100% and then some, but unfortunately I'm not going to be able to continue with this anymore... this kind of discussion just gets me too riled up, and my poor nervous system just can't handle it. I think my time is better spent elsewhere.

[[be...]]

 

I forgot.  I used to know that.  I'm not much of a detail person.  I'm better at gathering lots of infomation and putting it all together and then seeing the bigger picture, getting the gist of what's going on.  Since being disabled and on disability SSDI, I see how much the world ignores, abuses, and marginalizes the poor and suffering.  I get a pittance on SSDI, not enough to live on.  My state just passed the state budget and is going to tax the hell out of us poor through sin taxes with no other tax increases.  I believe in true communism, where all people live as equals.  I find the Essene community that lives throughout the US and world lives the right life.  Simple, practical and spiritual lives, transcending the materialism as much as possible.

 

You know, if you don't get enough SSDI you can file an official form to ask for more. I'm not sure but I think you can do it online and no lawyers and you don't have to been there in person. It's all done online. It might be SSDI.gov but that's just a guess on my part. This is how they determine who much you get: They take all of the social security money you have given to the government over the years, add it up and then give you I believe but am not positive 40% of that. So if you have had low paying job or are young, likely you won't get much. Lucky for me I generally made a good salary for many years so I get $2,500/month for life. I'm not used that that low of a paycheck. Low SSDI payments seem cruel to me. You should get enough whether you are 20 or 70. Just MO.

 

Betsy

[[ho...]]

I for one would happily take the lifestyles of years gone by over today's society. Yes we have great access to many many things but I prefer a more simple time in history. Sometimes progress can burden us more. Yup... Give me the simple life!! Hahaha...

[[ho...]]

Sorry Betsy... I was posting at the same time you were...

[[be...]]

Sorry Betsy... I was posting at the same time you were...

 

Ha ha! I knew you were because when I clicked on post up came in orange that said you may wish to review your post as a reply has just been posted. No worries.

 

Betsy

[[az...]]

I for one would happily take the lifestyles of years gone by over today's society. Yes we have great access to many many things but I prefer a more simple time in history. Sometimes progress can burden us more. Yup... Give me the simple life!! Hahaha...

 

Me too

[[Fl...]]

I think I understand what u are saying. The red pill is reality and the blue is bullshit?? Now that I'm learning to face reality, even though I don't want any more pills, if I have to I'll take reality, or red..

 

Kind of. I look at the blue pill as a "blissful ignorance". Some people are just not comfortable with facing reality so they surround themselves with pretty lies.

 

I don't think it is possible for anyone living in modern western society to not have been indoctrinated with blue pill rhetoric from the time they are born so it is a matter of unplugging yourself from this "matrix" to discover the truth for yourself.

[[Fl...]]

What do you imagine my husband is getting out of this, exactly?

 

I could make some guesses but he is really the only one who could answer that. I can assure you that he gets something out of it though, even if it is just the satisfaction of helping someone. I would guess that it is more than that, but I don't know either one of you so I cant say what that is. People do not expend infinite time and resources on something that they get nothing out of. Everyone has to have some kind of incentive in a relationship, even if it is just the satisfaction of helping someone.

 

Yikes. I think you swallowed the blue pill by mistake. If it wasn't for profit motives, none of us would be here in protracted withdrawal, because the drug companies would have looked into the evidence of brain damage rather than covering it up over 30 years ago. We also wouldn't have a health care system that boasts iatrogenic illness as the third leading cause of death, nor would we have a corrupted FDA that releases dangerous drugs to turn a profit.

 

We also wouldn't have a life expectancy of 78 years.

 

Your argument is the very definition of blue pill. Had there been no financial incentive for people to have developed cutting edge technology that saves lives you could have died in a serious car accident 10 years ago and you would have never experienced this benzo mess.

 

I am as disgusted at the current state of our medical system as you are but it is disingenuous to ignore the positive side of it just to try to prove your point. I am not arguing that these things are broken, I am arguing that profit motive isn't the cause of these problems.

 

Your argument revolves around the idea that people should be a certain way, but that doesn't reflect reality. I don't want this thread to be shut down for going too far into political territory so I am going to bow out of this conversation now but on a final note I will say that there is nothing new under the sun, so all we have to do is look at past civilizations to see what kinds of structures work and what doesn't work.

 

It is telling that we don't see too many people clamoring to leave societies that have a profit motive based structure, but there are certainly no shortage of people trying to move into these kinds of places to get away from countries where opposing systems have failed.

 

 

[[fe...]]

Well said FG, and I'm sure if u are like me u will continue to read this. To add to what u said, all I know is that I don't want to stand in line for bread, like some other countries that I know. We need to look at history, and see what works and what doesnt.

[Guest [mu...]]

OK, I think I can see where you're coming from now FG. Yes, my husband has grown tremendously from this experience.

 

I'd never ignore the positive side of health innovations (I've been helped by them as well), but there's no reason to think there would be any less of them with a non-profit based health care system. In fact, there would likely be even more (and of a higher and safer quality), as many effective treatments are ignored and unreleased when they can't turn a profit. Likewise, many useless (and even harmful) treatments are marketed and pushed heavily, not because the science behind them is solid, but because they're so lucrative. My father-in-law works in biotechnology and drug innovations, and you'd be shocked at how many effective medications for third world diseases are never released, simply because there's no profit to be made. One of the biggest platforms for health care reform (and election reform, and educational reform, etc) is to remove private interests, so that research and innovations can be completed without bias for ever-increasing profits. The idea that these life-saving cures could never have existed without our for-profit health care systems in simply untrue, but the idea that many of us were iatrogenically harmed directly because of our for-profit health care system is absolutely true.

 

There are more options than capitalism / oligarchies and bread lines, LOL, but that's a whole other discussion. Are we really not allowed to have political discussions on BB anymore? When did that happen?

 

 

[[be...]]

OK, I think I can see where you're coming from now FG. Yes, my husband has grown tremendously from this experience.

 

I'd never ignore the positive side of health innovations (I've been helped by them as well), but there's no reason to think there would be any less of them with a non-profit based health care system. In fact, there would likely be even more (and of a higher and safer quality), as many effective treatments are ignored and unreleased when they can't turn a profit. Likewise, many useless (and even harmful) treatments are marketed and pushed heavily, not because the science behind them is solid, but because they're so lucrative. My father-in-law works in biotechnology and drug innovations, and you'd be shocked at how many effective medications for third world diseases are never released, simply because there's no profit to be made. One of the biggest platforms for health care reform (and election reform, and educational reform, etc) is to remove private interests, so that research and innovations can be completed without bias for ever-increasing profits. The idea that these life-saving cures could never have existed without our for-profit health care systems in simply untrue, but the idea that many of us were iatrogenically harmed directly because of our for-profit health care system is absolutely true.

 

There are more options than capitalism / oligarchies and bread lines, LOL, but that's a whole other discussion. Are we really not allowed to have political discussions on BB anymore? When did that happen?

 

I think it is in the rules. Also the kicker was that Off Topic discussion about the presidential election that the mods shut down until after the election. But I wonder who wants to talk about the president after he/she has been sworn in? Except to argue again, of course. My bet is it will be locked again at some point. Despite friendships, talking politics to a person on the opposite side does nothing but cause hard feelings. Human nature, just like religion.

 

Betsy

[[co...]]

I think I got it shut down with my pro gun comments after the Orlando massacre. I upset some people.

[[be...]]

I think I got it shut down with my pro gun comments after the Orlando massacre. I upset some people.

 

Na, it was lots of people. I don't recall you upsetting me! But it is specifically a name I can't mention here for fear he might find and attack me.

[[co...]]

LOL, you're right though, politics and religion definitely upset some folks! :tickedoff:

[[Fl...]]

Well said FG, and I'm sure if u are like me u will continue to read this. To add to what u said, all I know is that I don't want to stand in line for bread, like some other countries that I know. We need to look at history, and see what works and what doesnt.

 

Humans have been living at least somewhat "civilized" for a long time now so there is a wealth of information available that theoretically should be able to teach us everything we need to know about what works and what doesn't work but some folks don't seem to want to learn from other people's mistakes.

 

If you want a good overview of one of the theories about why this is I would highly, highly recommend checking out Stefan Molyneux's youtube videos on R vs K selection. It is a philosophy show and he is heavy into politics right now with the elections but he also has a ton of other material about all kinds of red pill issues. He even has at least one interview with Robert Whitaker, author of Anatomy of an Epidemic! Well worth checking out his material if you are interested in these kinds of topics.

 

OK, I think I can see where you're coming from now FG. Yes, my husband has grown tremendously from this experience.

 

And that is a testament to his character. Everyone has to look out for themselves in order to survive but there are certainly some people who stand out as examples of good human beings and anyone who is willing to help a benzo warrior deserves to be commended.

 

I'd never ignore the positive side of health innovations (I've been helped by them as well), but there's no reason to think there would be any less of them with a non-profit based health care system.

 

There is a lot of reason to think there would be less of these innovations if there was no profit involved. I don't have stats to back this up but I would venture to guess that almost all major health innovations have came from countries like the US, Germany, UK etc.

 

There are more options than capitalism / oligarchies and bread lines, LOL, but that's a whole other discussion.

 

There are, but like I said all we have to do is look at past history to see what kinds of systems have produced strong, innovative societies that have stood the test of time. We can talk about ideals all we want but the proof is in the pudding. There is no such thing as a perfect system, but one that accurately mirrors human nature is going to come the best we can hope for.

 

Are we really not allowed to have political discussions on BB anymore? When did that happen?

 

Colin decided to shut it down until after the elections. This is probably the most heated elections that most of us will be able to remember so I don't blame him 

 

 

[[Be...]]

Why do people get so upset and angry when discussing politics and other "hot" issues?  I don't.  I have plenty of other personal stuff to get upset about.  I have six years of college and I took many classes, including political science courses, where there was serious discussion and debate about all sorts of hot topics and no one got upset and went on the offensive and stormed out of the classroom.  People need to learn how to disagree and state their opinions in a civil manner without taking it personally and attacking others.  People who attack or put down others are cruel.  There are alot of people like that in the world.  More mean and abusive ppl. than nice, for sure.  Nice "guys" finish last most of the time.  There's too much cruelty in this world.  The red pill I've had to swallow. 

[[Be...]]

 

I forgot.  I used to know that.  I'm not much of a detail person.  I'm better at gathering lots of infomation and putting it all together and then seeing the bigger picture, getting the gist of what's going on.  Since being disabled and on disability SSDI, I see how much the world ignores, abuses, and marginalizes the poor and suffering.  I get a pittance on SSDI, not enough to live on.  My state just passed the state budget and is going to tax the hell out of us poor through sin taxes with no other tax increases.  I believe in true communism, where all people live as equals.  I find the Essene community that lives throughout the US and world lives the right life.  Simple, practical and spiritual lives, transcending the materialism as much as possible.

 

You know, if you don't get enough SSDI you can file an official form to ask for more. I'm not sure but I think you can do it online and no lawyers and you don't have to been there in person. It's all done online. It might be SSDI.gov but that's just a guess on my part. This is how they determine who much you get: They take all of the social security money you have given to the government over the years, add it up and then give you I believe but am not positive 40% of that. So if you have had low paying job or are young, likely you won't get much. Lucky for me I generally made a good salary for many years so I get $2,500/month for life. I'm not used that that low of a paycheck. Low SSDI payments seem cruel to me. You should get enough whether you are 20 or 70. Just MO.

 

Betsy

 

I already checked into this.  SSI is available but I don't qualify for that.  Nothing else is available. 

[[be...]]

I meant an increase in SSDI payments, not SSI payments......