Disputes and conflicts

[[ra...]]

Alright then.  No disputes and conflicts.

 

We are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thin skinned.  Thanks for reminding me why I stayed off the board for 2 months.

 

PS  Here's a conflict for you, not everybody heals.  A really small percentage of us have permanent damage.  Heaven forbid anyone address the real elephant in the room.  Members will worry themselves to death.

 

See you in another 2 months,

 

Ramcon1

[[be...]]

Alright then.  No disputes and conflicts.

 

We are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thin skinned. Thanks for reminding me why I stayed off the board for 2 months.

 

PS  Here's a conflict for you, not everybody heals.  A really small percentage of us have permanent damage.  Heaven forbid anyone address the real elephant in the room.  Members will worry themselves to death.

 

See you in another 2 months,

 

Ramcon1

 

Not all of us. I am not....................

[[ra...]]

Thanks.  Me either.  I am not healed, I never will, but my shoulders are broad and my skin is thick, and I always welcome the opportunity for free form discussion.

 

I just head a thread locked, and this thread was a vent about being blocked.  I thought the off-topic board was the ideal place to talk about politics, and shout a bit, and get shouted at.

 

I was wrong.  The moderators do not want that.  It is their board, so I respect their wishes.  I do not have to like it.  I just have to respect them, and I will. 

 

I was just killing time waiting for a job interview.

 

Ramcon1

[[so...]]

Ramcon,

 

Unfortunately, you are your own worst enemy.  You have cemented in your subconscious mind the belief that you are permanently damaged.  I wish, for the sake of others who have faith in their bodies' ability to fully heal, you would not spread fear and abject resignation of doom all over this forum.  You reinstated, in spite of all the Buddies' posts on this forum that reinstatement does not work.  In fact, you were warned it would make things worse.  You reinstated anyway.  You have to start all over again from the beginning, but with more intense symptoms and for a much longer duration. 

 

I'm sorry you have been suffering so long, but what good does it do you to believe your suffering will last the rest of your life?  What good can come out of your posts, that others read, that their pain may be permanent?  If not for yourself, please reread what you write, as you sit in a mindset of pure human compassion and concern for others, before you hit POST. 

 

You are exhausted from suffering a long time.  We all are.  You have only one exit door.  Get off the drugs.  Suffer while recovering.  Heal.  Exhale.  Feel reborn.  Live your life.

 

Sofa

 

 

[[ra...]]

Alternatively,

 

I had a level of suffering that was a 10.  Unbearable to me.  Maybe others could bare it.  I could not.  When I lost my job, I said this is the last straw.

 

I reinstated, and my level of suffering went down to a 5.  Not great, but I can bear this.  I could not bear that.

 

I have always said that the VAST majority heal within 3 years.  I did not, and I was not willing to just sit there, unemployable, hoping that some day I might get better.  I decided to take a chance.  So far, I do not regret my decision.  Maybe I will in a year, but so far I do not.  Maybe I will taper again in a year.  Maybe I will ride this for as long as it lasts.

 

And I will state again, if you are at year 5, 6, or wherever, and your life is unlivable, then TRY SOMETHING.  I do not care if it is reinstating or remeron or electroshock therapy, but sitting there hoping tomorrow will be a better day is Einstein's definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting a different result.  That is why I criticize the "optimists."  You want to be optimistic, fine, just do not let in cloud your good judgement.

 

I have proven to myself time and time again, I am not my own worst enemy.  I might be one of my enemies sometimes, but more often than not, I am my own best friend.  When docs and others with my "best interests" at heart have failed me, I put 100% of my mental powers and my will to making tomorrow a better day.  It might not be, but it will not be for lack of trying.

 

Be well, good luck, find your path, share your ideas, life is a personal journey, and you have no one to whom to answer except yourself.

 

Ramcon1

[[be...]]

ramcon:

 

I understand your original post, because I was around back then, so knew about you. But many people are super sensitive, like you said.....That's why I read my posts twice before I send them. Sometimes I forget, and then some rag on me. I try to avoid doing this. Sometimes I feel like I am on tippy toes. But the older members, I feel very safe with them. Not so the new people, as I don't know what they are about.

[[so...]]

Ramcon,

 

I did not know that you felt 50% better after reinstating.  I know you were at your wits end.  I apologize for not realizing that reinstating improved the way you were feeling by a huge margin.  I also acknowledge that we need to do whatever is necessary to make life bearable when it is beyond human endurance.  I know your decision to reinstate was not a hasty one.  If I came across that way, I again apologize.

 

I am, by no means, a newbie or overly sensitive about negative posting.  I was merely making a suggestion to protect those who are in no condition to put certain posts in perspective.  Everyone has their own journey and the level of suffering they can endure.  Quite frankly, I didn't know this kind of misery was even possible.  To reinstate, you obviously came to the end of the line, your personal limit, and I commend you for being intuitive enough to recognize your "red zone" and do something to save your life and your sanity.

 

I care about you, Ramcon, which is why I follow your posts.  I want you to have peace.

 

Love, Sofa

[[Ch...]]

Thanks.  Me either.  I am not healed, I never will, but my shoulders are broad and my skin is thick, and I always welcome the opportunity for free form discussion.

 

I just head a thread locked, and this thread was a vent about being blocked.  I thought the off-topic board was the ideal place to talk about politics, and shout a bit, and get shouted at.

 

I was wrong.  The moderators do not want that.  It is their board, so I respect their wishes.  I do not have to like it.  I just have to respect them, and I will. 

 

I was just killing time waiting for a job interview.

 

Ramcon1

 

Let's be fair, Rancon.  Megan explained and even reposted Colin's feelings about threads like the one she locked.  This is Colin's forum, we all play by his rules out of respect.

 

For anyone who'd like to read Colin's post: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=159911.msg2137153#msg2137153

 

Thanks,

Challis

[[ra...]]

I said I will respect it.  I do not have to like it.  I do not have to agree with it, or even think it is a reasonable idea.  I just have to respect it, and I will.

[[re...]]

The problem is that benzobuddies has a defined mission, which is to help each other get through benzo withdrawal and recovery, and anything that conflicts with that mission is out of place here. Most people at benzo buddies are too stressed out to deal with heavy conflict, and they probably don't come to here to be reminded of every awful thing going on in the world. If they really want (which most don't) they can read about all that stuff on some other website - as can you. In fact, there are thousands of websites set up just for political debate, and you can access any or all of them on the very same computer you're using to get on benzobuddies - and at the very same time.

 

If you're someone who enjoys arguing about politics, or religion, or race, or whatever, I would recommend that you find a good website for that right now, bookmark it, and go there whenever you get the urge. I'd recommend an irc channel, efnet #politics, which you can access here: http://www.politicschat.net/

 

 

[[Co...]]

I feel sad for you. Hope you can be happy one day.

[[ra...]]

Redevan,

 

Good point.  Thanks for the recommendation.

 

Sofa,

 

50% might be an exaggeration, but it went from unbearable to bearable.  I want others to know that under certain circumstances, reinstating might help.  It helped me.

 

Corsair and all,

 

I am not unhappy.  I am ok.  I have good days and bad days.  I mean to disrespect to anyone, and especially to their journey.

 

You all be well, and have a good weekend.

 

Ramcon1

[[Su...]]

ThI really like this message.  so reposting.  (My problem is that benzobuddies has a defined mission, which is to help each other get through benzo withdrawal and recovery, and anything that conflicts with that mission is out of place here. Most people at benzo buddies are too stressed out to deal with heavy conflict, and they probably don't come to here to be reminded of every awful thing going on in the world. If they really want (which most don't) they can read about all that stuff on some other website - as can you. In fact, there are thousands of websites set up just for political debate, and you can access any or all of them on the very same computer you're using to get on benzobuddies - and at the very same time.

 

If you're someone who enjoys arguing about politics, or religion, or race, or whatever, I would recommend that you find a good website for that right now, bookmark it, and go there whenever you get the urge. I'd recommend an irc channel, efnet #politics, which you can access here: http://www.politicschat.net/

[[Ph...]]

The problem is that benzobuddies has a defined mission, which is to help each other get through benzo withdrawal and recovery, and anything that conflicts with that mission is out of place here. Most people at benzo buddies are too stressed out to deal with heavy conflict, and they probably don't come to here to be reminded of every awful thing going on in the world. If they really want (which most don't) they can read about all that stuff on some other website - as can you. In fact, there are thousands of websites set up just for political debate, and you can access any or all of them on the very same computer you're using to get on benzobuddies - and at the very same time.

 

If you're someone who enjoys arguing about politics, or religion, or race, or whatever, I would recommend that you find a good website for that right now, bookmark it, and go there whenever you get the urge. I'd recommend an irc channel, efnet #politics, which you can access here: http://www.politicschat.net/

Exactly!  We've already blown off our political steam here and it accomplished nothing.  Time to focus on the one thing we've all got in common.

[[be...]]

Yes. It was a never ending merry go round..........

[[ra...]]

I would just like to point out that the TITLE of this sub-board is "off topic," which to me means anything that does NOT have to do with benzo recovery.  I would have thought that if you had any other topic about which you wanted to have a discussion or even blow off steam, whether it is how much you dislike puppies or how much you like neo-nazis that this would be the place to do it, and moderators would not care.

 

I get now that the moderators still do not want heated debates, even here, so ok, I will have my heated debates else where.

 

Be well and good luck,

 

Ramcon1

[[Bi...]]

Alright then.  No disputes and conflicts.

 

We are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thin skinned.  Thanks for reminding me why I stayed off the board for 2 months.

 

PS  Here's a conflict for you, not everybody heals.  A really small percentage of us have permanent damage.  Heaven forbid anyone address the real elephant in the room.  Members will worry themselves to death.

 

See you in another 2 months,

 

Ramcon1

 

Ramcon, I'd use caution with words like "DAMAGE" and I'll explain why  (I may burn some ears now so read at your own risk)

 

There are real Disease's where people have a real chemical deficiency and they are given pills for life  to enhance that missing  neurotransmitter.

 

I'll mention a few:

 

1.  Parkinson's Disease - Drug taken for life?  Dopamine family.

 

2. Lou Gehrig's disease, ALS, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis

Drug taken for life?  Glutamate blockers and Muscle relaxants.

 

 

gaba deficiency?  Yes there are actually disease's for low gaba levels.

 

If people have a gaba deficiency we call it:

 

Succinic semialdehyde dehydrogenase deficiency or  SSADH

OR

homocarnosinosis

OR

GAD67 deficiency syndrome.

OR

GABA-T deficiency syndrome

 

These are REAL genetic disorders, gaba disease's if you will.

 

ref; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675887/

 

Who knows but maybe all of us hard luck cases are suffering from some as yet unknown gaba deficiency that is genetic and not yet discovered.

 

Time will tell and I do not think every person should taper because a small percentage of people may actually need benzo's. 

 

Permanent damage is not the case since ALL the people I know that reinstated started feeling fine.  That's not damage since a benzo can't heal damage. Right???

 

It's up to everyone here to be honest with themselves. Do you feel better on or off the drug?  If you don't heal after 5 years off but feel better on the pills you have your answer.  Sorry if I offended any Scientologists out their but what Ramcon says is true.  100% healing is not an absolute guarantee.  All we can do is try to taper and as for the results we have to be honest with our self's in the end.

 

I am sure that as science progresses more gaba deficiency brain disorders will be discovered and a few may even be a side effect of taking a benzo and screwing up GABRG3 in the 15th chromosome strand.

 

Some tinnitus researchers are already figuring out that tinnitus is a Benzodiazepine Receptor Deficiency 

Many people are actually born with tinnitus and they are put on benzo's and 71% are cured of tinnitus for life.

 

REF: http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=231

 

This tapering thing is not a "one size fits all glove"  Most will heal and a few will not.  One should try but in the end you have to be true to yourself. 

 

But I stress never to use the word damage since benzo's can't fix damage and the one's that reinstated suddenly find themselves feeling better and that's the case 99% of the time if they know what they are doing and that's a hard topic to talk about. Let's just say the doses they take are making up for lost time and that's all I will say on that topic so do not PM me please! 

I can only guess that some brain's for one reason or another just take too long to heal. 

 

I try to find what information I can on the internet as the doctors know less than I do on the topic.  It's reasonable to say no doctor goes to school to become a BENZO expert.  Never heard of one yet.

 

I did meet one anesthesiologist in 2013 that reinstated me and he was good but even he did not understand the science but he sure knew how to go through the motions of a perfect reinstate!  He was a navy doctor with the rank of Colonel.  Why would the CIA and armed forces need a reinstate expert?  I'll tell you why, kidnappings and military personnel lost at sea or behind enemy lines for months.  When isis or a drug lord kidnaps you they do not give you the drugs you need and you may go 60 or 90 days without, benzo's, SSRI's, beta blockers, blood thinners etc. and these people are a real mess when they are released and this is the GO-TO doc for those victims.  People who have missed 200 klonopin or xanax pills can't be fixed by giving them one pill and a glass of water! Not happening lol!  Let's just say it's way more complex and not a good topic I want to talk about but it's the reason most reinstates fail miserably. (if you have an IQ of over 150 I do not have to say anymore and you figured it out )

Even the Colonel did not know how to get people OFF, only how to get them back ON and there was never any damage.  During the withdrawal the victims all felt damaged for life he reported to me.  Not the case after a few weeks of catch up, they all recovered just fine.

 

Hugs Birdy 

 

 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

  Why are discussion which promote division and are political, even allowed on here ?? Many of us are going through the most difficult time in our lives and joined this forum for support and it is supposed to be a safe place !  I made the mistake of commenting on this discussion "Are there any other Atheists here?",  because I thought it would be light hearted fun, but now I see talk about politics , how liberals are bad, Abortion, etc.  Why is this on here   If I wanted to be triggered and upset , I can just watch/read the news.  I do not need it here or want it here.  So my question is Why is this allowed and why is locking of threads selectively done and the rules inconsistently applied?    Politics globally is currently a very divisive issue and has people hurting and angry, again why are these discussions on here, how does this help with healing at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

   

[[so...]]

Birdman,

 

"But I stress never to use the word damage since benzo's can't fix damage and the one's that reinstated suddenly find themselves feeling better and that's the case 99% of the time if they know what they are doing and that's a hard topic to talk about. Let's just say the doses they take are making up for lost time and that's all I will say on that topic so do not PM me please! 

I can only guess that some brain's for one reason or another just take too long to heal."

 

I don't know if we are members of the same forum.  From what I've read on the Benzo Buddies forum, 99% of those who reinstated REGRETTED it because it made them feel far WORSE than before their reinstatement.  I'm really shocked by your statement, which is flat out untrue.

 

Sofa

[[Bi...]]

Birdman,

 

"But I stress never to use the word damage since benzo's can't fix damage and the one's that reinstated suddenly find themselves feeling better and that's the case 99% of the time if they know what they are doing and that's a hard topic to talk about. Let's just say the doses they take are making up for lost time and that's all I will say on that topic so do not PM me please! 

I can only guess that some brain's for one reason or another just take too long to heal."

 

I don't know if we are members of the same forum.  From what I've read on the Benzo Buddies forum, 99% of those who reinstated REGRETTED it because it made them feel far WORSE than before their reinstatement.  I'm really shocked by your statement, which is flat out untrue.

 

Sofa

 

Its not untrue at all.  I have many personal email addresses with other people here.  We talk and we know some that did not make it off while they tried very hard.    If you want to believe that 100% of people that join here are fixed and never reinstate then you keep believing that.  I know a few percent that didn't make it and I am not going to lie about it.  Even the mods know some people don't make it off.  Everyone has a breaking point.  What can I say.  I've been here along time and seen a lot of things, not all of them pretty.

 

Reminds me of a joke:

 

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

 

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

 

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

 

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

 

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

 

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

 

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

 

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

 

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

 

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

 

[[so...]]

Guess you think God sends some people benzos.  I doubt it.

 

Lousy joke too.

 

Sofa

[[so...]]

Birdman,

 

By the way, I never said 100% of the people "make it out."  YOU said 99% of the people who reinstate felt better.  THAT'S what I called UNTRUE.

 

Sofa

[[dr...]]

I've seen the light! The only thing between innocent citizens and a bad person with a benzo is ...a good person with a benzo. Or something like that. I wish everything was that easy.

[[Bi...]]

Birdman,

 

By the way, I never said 100% of the people "make it out."  YOU said 99% of the people who reinstate felt better.  THAT'S what I called UNTRUE.

 

Sofa

You forgot my QUALIFIER statement and took my quote out of context.

 

"case 99% of the time if they know what they are doing and that's a hard topic to talk about"

 

I was reinstated by a professional.  It's a very complex procedure and much more than just starting to take your pills again.  Few people have access to people that I know in my military contacts.

 

They had me in a hospital with KNOCKOUT high levels of benzo's for a few weeks before I landed it properly and was back to normal.

  I do not like to talk about it as I am afraid people may try it without an expert near by.  There is a right way an a wrong way to reinstate from a c/t.  I do not think the service my doc provided for me can be bought on the open market and doubt any public medical facility would understand it or could duplicate it or have the equipment for it.  I had to wear a full body climate controlled suit that had air pressure bags pulsing and moving my blood around and it also kept me warm as my heart slowed to near death levels.  I remember the nurses dabbing drool from my lips when I tried to talk It was a very strange ordeal and I was very wasted for a short while.  It's in my signature.

 

Trust me I know why reinstates fail and my doc talked to me about all his experiences while he worked on me.  Very interesting guy.

 

[[pa...]]

Ramcom, 

 

I so remembered when you joined BB, and I followed and posted to your threads.  I know you were going through the hells of hells, just like all others before you and ones at the same time...  Though, I remember how you posted how you were drinking alcohol and doing other things to help stave off the symptoms... Truly, I remember your posts of being the party boy in your NY area, how you went on about that.

 

Now, I'm not passing judgment and never did, as I understood how horrible of what you were going through.  But, I suggested to you to lay off of what you were doing to lessen the wds, as the effects were adding fuel on to fire.  No like some you didn't listen.  Look at your signature, you drank alcohol to stave on the wd symptoms for how long?  Look at your signature.  Again I will tell you, are you aware that alcohol binds to the GABA receptors.. 

 

Do I judge anyone from reinstating, no, that is their choice.  Do benzos create permanent damage... for 99.9% it does not.  There will always be at .001% it might cause some permanent problem, but minimal.  That's life.

 

Though, the majority do heal and they do.  BUT, during this process, as it is hell for sure.. What you did to stave off the symptoms does not work.  All you did was make things worse, and NOT allow your system to heal as it would have. 

 

Yes, it became too much for you.  Do I judge you for reinstating, no I do not.  But, will you change your ways, no you probably won't.

 

I tried to tell you this before.  I knew you were suffering like all others.  But you would NOT listen and heed the advice. 

 

Truly, I'm sorry you have reinstated, as you will eventually be back to step one again.  Maybe then, you will realize what you need to do.

 

My best to you, Pattylu