How Attempts to Distance from the Term Addiction Can Result in Harm

[[Fi...]]

 

I know of several instances in my real life and now have also seen a bunch on the BB board where people are more concerned with what they’re being called rather than whether the pharmaceutical protocol they’re following is helping them get well or hurting and delaying their recovery.

 

As long as they get reassurance they’re not nasty addicts, they can continue with their denial and keep popping whatever it is they’re still taking.  The way I see it, people who so adamantly insist they are better than actual "addicts" are merely perpetuating the stereotype that a hijacked, addicted brain is some kind of moral failing.  This attitude just makes it harder for others to take a clear-eyed look at their own situation and make changes for the better.

 

If a doctor put you on something and your brain got addicted to it and you had the strength to get off of it, you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about.  But you also won’t increase the speed of your healing by heaping shame on others and trying to distance yourself.

 

And by the way, it’s completely screwed up how doctors treat  EVERYBODY on this issue.  The whole system is due for a major overhaul and it goes way beyond trying to school doctors not to call you an addict.

 

 

[[pi...]]

I don't believe that people calling themselves addicts, accidental addicts or iatrogenically dependent can harm themsleves or anyone else.  We all came here for the same purpose, to gain support and information in a quest to become benzo free or to receive support as the recovery process continues.  Our members deserve respect at all times.

 

I certainly don't see people "popping" medications because they don't feel they are "addicts" and I have been here a really long time.  Many people are polydrugged and need to take care of one medication at a time. Additionally,  we are not an anti drug support forum, our focus is on benzo withdrawal.  If someone decides they need a particular medication, there should be absolutely no stigma or judgmental attitudes towards them.

 

I see no "heaping of shame" on others and to bring this up, you are making an issue out of what is in all actuality a non-issue.

 

pianogirl

[[li...]]

FJ,

 

You're just not getting it. No offense.

[[be...]]

We are here to support not judge 

[[Fi...]]

We are here to support not judge 

 

Exactly.

[[Di...]]

We are here to support not judge 

 

Exactly.

 

Then if you agree that's what we're here for, perhaps you need to stop judging. You said the other day you weren't going to say anything more about it, but now here you are starting a new thread just so you can start the argument all over again.

 

I have to say your OP is one of the most insulting posts I think I've see here for a while. What right do you have to say to fellow BB members ... "As long as they get reassurance they’re not nasty addicts, they can continue with their denial and keep popping whatever it is they’re still taking". That is such an insulting thing to say to any BB member. Where do you get the impression that any of us are in "denial" or that we're happy to keep "popping" our meds? I'm really furious right now.

 

I have no idea why you have to keep flogging this subject. You seem to have this impression that whatever you say is right and the rest of us are just "in denial", or that we're more concerned about what we're called than actually getting off benzos. It seems to me YOU'RE the one who's more concerned about the terminology, and I honestly have to wonder about your motives for being here ......

[[Fi...]]

Yeah, I question my motives for remaining here, too, but every time I make up my mind to stop checking in, people PM me to say they appreciate what I have to say and have the nerve to post and they want me to stick around.

 

We could get into a whole semantics argument about what constitutes useful "support" and "judgment."

 

To me, for people to want to claim the high moral ground of distancing themselves from "true addicts" is to necessarily be judging all the people whose brains got highjacked by a different route than theirs did.  You want to be sure everyone knows you're not like them, right?  And that would be because you look down on them, certainly not because you think they're superior.

 

Yes, I said I wouldn't post any more on that thread and I didn't.  But this morning, while doing my yoga, I started thinking about WHY I feel the way I do and I wanted to explain.  I certainly can't get into all the personal stories in my own life or discuss some of the long PM exchanges that make me think this way, but I do not think I'm off target in noticing the harm that's done when people think their drug use is all about whether they are officially an addict or not rather than letting the question be whether the drugs are doing them any good.  I guess this came up because of someone PMing me for advice and it seemed this was the question at hand: Was this person addicted to her benzo?  As long as she could be reassured she was not, the facts of being very ill did not seem to matter.

 

Since I'm a writer, when words start crowding into my head, I have to write them down or I can't even move on from it.

I've lived through this whole thing myself, having come off of opioids as well as benzos, so of course the stories of others caught up in addiction have been of great interest to me.  I think my observations are as valid as anyone else's.

 

You needn't take this philosophical observation so personally and get so upset, Diaz-Pam, especially since it doesn't seem to apply to your situation.  You question my being here.  I question why this pushes your buttons so badly.

[[Di...]]

When someone so clearly insults my fellow members, that's when my buttons get pushed.

 

In all honestly no one cares what you choose to call yourself. You are quite free to call yourself an addict if you want to. I've said that a number of times already. You also have every right to explain your reasons for doing so, and you are quite free to post your observations. No one is disputing any of that at all.

 

However, you have absolutely no right to insult other people in the process, as you did in in the above post. That's what I'm angry about right now, and that's the only reason I bothered to post on this thread. If you had simply posted your reasons and observations I would have simply moved on to the next thread, because I have no interest in getting into this tired old argument again, but you didn't. You made it a personal attack on other members, simply because they don't call themselves what you say they should.

 

I'm actually curious about why it bothers YOU so much what other people call themselves anyway? Using the excuse of being a "writer", and you must get the words down, is nonsense. I'm a writer too, and I can often draft a whole novel in my brain while I'm out walking. However, I have a self-editing mechanism that prevents me from being insulting to other people when I put those words on a screen.

 

 

[[Fi...]]

You can draft a whole novel while you take a walk?  That's impressive.  Are you published?  Because none of my writer friends who are has ever made such a claim to me.  Am I sounding snotty?  Yeah.  Tough.  You, Pam, have never been anything less than completely snotty to me since I first began posting on BB.  Today you call me "insulting."  Yesterday it was "passive aggressive." Isn't one of the rules of the BB board that there should be no personal attacks?  You've broken that rule with me over and over.

 

I don't get why you feel I insulted anybody.  I'm just reporting the thought processes I've watched people verbalize(more off the board than here) whereby they seem to feel their course of action is fine as long as somebody is reassuring them they're not an addict.  Where's the insult in that?  I do think most people on BB are determined not to use again and I see more denial in people who haven't arrived here yet.  But regarding BB members, if the shoe doesn't fit, I'm certainly not saying anybody has to wear it.  If it doesn't, why should they get their blood pressure up or feel insulted?

 

I didn't bring all this up again.  It seems like the last thread was started by a newbie who sincerely wondered about the different terms.  I thought that person deserved an answer.  I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it, but couldn't resist affirming Xerxes's post because he took the time to write out exactly my thoughts on it.

 

I absolutely agree I don't want to spend any more time on this, and I'm a little annoyed at myself that I thought maybe it was worth trying to explain where I was coming from.  Clearly it wasn't.  But now I'm done and you can calm down. 

[[Di...]]

You can draft a whole novel while you take a walk? 

 

I'm surprised you don't understand the intention of hyperbole, or the difference between draft and write - but now I'm just sounding snotty aren't I, and that's not my MO here. Oh and btw, any comments I have made to you have been about what you've said - not about you as a person. There's a big difference.

 

 

I don't get why you feel I insulted anybody.  I'm just reporting the thought processes I've watched people verbalize(more off the board than here) whereby they seem to feel their course of action is fine as long as somebody is reassuring them they're not an addict.  Where's the insult in that? 

 

 

This is where it is.

 

vv

 

 

As long as they get reassurance they’re not nasty addicts, they can continue with their denial and keep popping whatever it is they’re still taking. 

 

It's a shame you just don't get it. It seems you think that people who choose to be referred to as "dependent" are just pill poppers in denial. I don't think I've come across one person in denial here (apart from the occasional oddball we get). Every single person I've seen come here for help is totally aware of the mess they are in. Frankly, whether they are "addicts" or "dependent" probably doesn't even enter into their thought process so I really wonder how many of these people are really having long PM discussions with you about it. They just want to find a way to get out of the mess they're in.

 

Why does it matter to you so much what other people want to call themselves anyway? Like I said, call yourself whatever you want, just don't insult other people in your effort to explain your opinions and reasonings. That was my only reason for posting on this thread.

 

Anyway, I'm done. Others can chime in if they want to, but I'm not getting into any further discussion about this because it's truly a waste of time. The whole thing is a non-issue, as PG said. I just needed to voice my annoyance about the insults and judgements made about fellow BBers who are simply doing the very best they can under horrible circumstances.

[[Fl...]]

Hopefully this doesn't devolve any further than it already has because I think it is a good discussion to have and I hope more people in the benzo community who haven't thought much about it start to see how important this topic is.

 

The thing that strikes me is that whenever this topic comes up, no matter whether anyone is using degrading or insulting language toward addiction or not, some folks feel insulted at the mere mention of anyone wanting to distance themselves from that label. I know this is a thread that you started but the quote below is essentially repeated on every thread where this topic is mentioned.

 

To me, for people to want to claim the high moral ground of distancing themselves from "true addicts" is to necessarily be judging all the people whose brains got highjacked by a different route than theirs did.  You want to be sure everyone knows you're not like them, right?  And that would be because you look down on them, certainly not because you think they're superior.

 

I guess I can kind of understand the reasoning behind that but in my eyes it is incredibly selfish to insist on perpetuating inaccurate terminology that might not make much of a difference to those of us who have already been damaged by these drugs and are not taking them any more but could make a HUGE difference for an unsuspecting patient who might fall victim to a doctor's ignorance who may find themselves on these drugs for an inappropriate amount of time of for someone who realizes they are in trouble and need help getting off who might end up cruelly yanked off of these drugs because of irresponsible medical professionals who insist on treating dependence as addiction.

 

The title of this thread is "How Attempts to Distance from the Term Addiction Can Result in Harm", but aside from this quote in your first post I haven't seen where you have made a case to back up your point:

 

This attitude just makes it harder for others to take a clear-eyed look at their own situation and make changes for the better.

 

Once again, here is an excellent article that clearly outlines how important it is to use proper medical terminology when it comes to benzos-

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/11/language-surrounding-benzodiazepines/

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/11/language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-part-ii/

 

This article illustrates a point I have been trying to make for years and it does it much better than I can.

 

Repeating how this is a matter of others wanting to feel superior isn't doing anything to prove your case. Matter of fact it shows how the focus of your concern is on you, not on other benzo victims.

 

Please explain specifically how attempts to distance from the term addiction can result in harm.

[[Fi...]]

"Please explain specifically how attempts to distance from the term addiction can result in harm."

 

You tempt me to try, but it's pointless, and the boss of me (me) refuses to let me take the time.  I would have to go into the specifics of various stories--mostly people NOT on the board, I would re-emphasize--and it's clear you've already made up your mind about this.  I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Hopefully this doesn't devolve any further than it already has because I think it is a good discussion to have and I hope more people in the benzo community who haven't thought much about it start to see how important this topic is.

 

 

Please explain specifically how attempts to distance from the term addiction can result in harm.

 

I agree.......it is an important topic because in my opinion it is the reason why

Ashton's work has not been officially acknowledged.

 

Wish we had someone from the medical community to join the discussion.....

or even Colin's opinion would be interesting.

 

[[Mo...]]

 

I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

FG and arguing ? I don't know where you're coming from.......

but boy are you confused and wrong, so sorry couldn't resist,

no insult but a fact.

[[ka...]]

Honestly, most of us on BB are trying to get out of this hell, and could not care less what term is used to describe the horror which is benzo dependence or addiction or whatever. Most of us are here to share our stories, get advice on tapering and eventually heal and get back to living, hopefully having learned how to better cope with whatever base line condition caused us to seek "help" in the first place. If you have the time to argue about symantics on this site, then maybe it is time to go out and do some living.

[[Mo...]]

 

If you have the time to argue about symantics on this site, then maybe it is time to go out and do some living.

 

I'm sorry but you don't understand.....it is a serious topic in regards to get

acknowledgement for our suffering, which can take years compared to

Heroin ''addiction'' etc.

[[ka...]]

Are you serious? Do you really think by arguing  on BB you or I are going to get any acknowledgement for our suffering? My own family who I talk to daily do not understand  or acknowledge my suffering, even though they have seen me several times in a state of absolute insanity.  You might as well start posting on Facebook if you want acknowledgement, you might  get more "likes". I have developed severe chronic Tinnitus after my initial C/t which I have had now for eight months, it never stops and I am only 34. Don't even try to lecture me on suffering or that I don't get it. Seriously, nobody cares about our suffering, regardless of what you want to call it. Do you care about the thousands of innocent civilians  dying in Syria everyday? People only care about  what personally affects them.

[[Mo...]]

Are you serious? Do you really think by arguing  on BB you or I are going to get any acknowledgement for our suffering? My own family who I talk to daily do not understand  or acknowledge my suffering, even though they have seen me several times in a state of absolute insanity.  You might as well start posting on Facebook if you want acknowledgement, you might  get more "likes". I have developed severe chronic Tinnitus after my initial C/t which I have had now for eight months, it never stops and I am only 34. Don't even try to lecture me on suffering or that I don't get it. Seriously, nobody cares about our suffering, regardless of what you want to call it. Do you care about the thousands of innocent civilians  dying in Syria everyday? People only care about  what personally affects them.

[[wh...]]

Anyone who had a taper (or attempts to get off their prescribed benzo) that landed them in the ER (which results in a trip to psych unit) where they force you into a rapid detox, knows exactly why it matters.

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Numerous of law suits have been lost due to the wrong medical terminology......

[[Fl...]]

You tempt me to try, but it's pointless, and the boss of me (me) refuses to let me take the time.  I would have to go into the specifics of various stories--mostly people NOT on the board, I would re-emphasize--and it's clear you've already made up your mind about this.  I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

I am not interested in arguing either. I am interested in hearing you back up the point you are trying to make. Based upon what you have written the only conclusion I can reach is that you are not concerned about people who have neurological damage from benzos, you are concerned about yourself and how other people with the addiction label are perceived. If there is something I am missing I would love to hear it.

[[Fl...]]

Honestly, most of us on BB are trying to get out of this hell, and could not care less what term is used to describe the horror which is benzo dependence or addiction or whatever.

 

That's the thing. For those of us who are off the drug and there is essentially no "help" for (other than time, of course) the terminology is used has fewer consequences. But if you care about the benzo cause as a whole it matters a great deal. Please read the links I posted. This problem will continue as long as there is confusion and it is selfish of us to perpetuate ignorance that will undoubtedly cause more people to fall victim to this madness.

[[ka...]]

I too have landed in the Psych Ward twice. Had no previous mental health issues other than anxiety before I was committed due to what I now know was severe Ativan withdrawal symptoms.  I had no idea at the time and even the Psychiatrists at the Psych Ward, plus my private Psychiatrist do not until this day acknowledge that my symptoms were/are causes by benzo withdrawal.  There is no recourse  as the drug is legal in NZ and the amount prescribed was within "recommended dosage" guidelines. Thus, nobody cares what we call it, all I can say is thank goodness for BB, saved my life as it convinced me I was not crazy, but does not change the fact that the outside world does not care, and arguing  about symantics with your fellow BB members will not change or fix anything. Thus, go do some living, that is my eventual goal.

[[Fi...]]

FG--this is not about me at all.  During my ordeal I was treated as a person with "merely physical dependence" and also as a drug-seeking addict.  Neither helped.  Nothing would heal me but time.  And I do care very much for all the people who stumbled into this hell-hole; that's why I'm hoping the book I plan to publish soon will help get the word out. It illustrates exactly how a person can become addicted by her doctors.  I sympathize with people like Kallie--those are the stories that outrage me the most--and I agree with her that arguing this here is pointless.

 

I made a big mistake expressing myself about this yesterday.  I broke my own rule for myself to try to save my writing energy for my book.  It's very bad for healing, because trying to explain my point of view only to be called names and have my motives questioned is just subjecting myself to the worst sort of negative energy.

 

I would recommend again for you the book You Are the Placebo for ideas on how to tell yourself a more positive story that might facilitate healing.  Subjecting one's brain to the fight or flight chemicals aroused by arguing on BB is a horrid Rx for anybody!

[[Fr...]]

I can respond with my own personal experience. Why I prefer not to be called an addict. Chemically dependent works fine with me, I'm well aware I cannot function without the drugs in my system, at least now. However, I was prescribed them. . . and never abused them. Not once. I have never taken a quarter of a pill more than I was allotted for the day.

 

I have been to detox. I have been to the psychiatric unit of a hospital. It becomes a problem when you are being taken off medications, feeling ill as can be, wanting to do nothing other than rest in the bed. . . and you are informed that you must adhere to the strict schedule of therapy provided for people who are abusing substances, or dealing with the grief of losing your addiction etc. Which is all fine and well. Until they tell you that if you don't go to these meetings that your insurance won't cover their part.

 

I'll echo the sentiments of others that nobody on here could give half a crap about what anyone else calls them, addict whatever. . . we're all facing a much bigger challenge. It is when doctors, treatment centers and the like don't distinguish between the two, and one group is forced into a category where they don't belong that it becomes to be an issue. If you were diabetic, and went to the hospital for medication management and you were forced into an AA meeting or your insurance covered it; I imagine it'd be a completely different story.

 

Addicts aren't nasty people, they have often been some of the nicest people I have ever met. I was also once "addicted" to alcohol, though it was more binge drinking. I don't mind saying I'm an alcoholic. . . But since I didn't need intervention to quit, beyond a week stint in jail. . . I'd prefer the term problem drinker. I realized it was a problem and quit.

 

Which brings me to question why you care AT ALL, what people prefer to be called? I don't agree with getting butthurt if someone calls you this or that, it's the internet you shouldn't care all that much. But why call anyone something they don't call themselves? I don't see any effect on the outcome of their withdrawal.