Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ta...]]

I just don’t know what to do, probably b/c having such awful withdrawal today on top of lack of sleep and cannot think straight. Im scared to make a mistake or make things worse since they feel so bad right now. Im trying to think back even a month ago when I was taking a midday and before bed dose. Falling asleep not the issue, but maybe was getting 4hrs instead of 2. Heart palps and anxiety were still happening, mornings were still awful. My eyes look so terrible Im scared to even cry anymore. I need to figure out what to do- just once a day pm or back to 2x day. Forgot about metabolites.

Do I need to accept insomnia for indefinite future? Is it safe to go on like this? Sometimes I just want to go cold turkey and get this over with but from everything I read that is a terrible idea. Have you known anyone who has done at home private detox with success? Im sorry Im so messy today

[[Mo...]]

Taper,

Would you be willing to try the liquid prescription?  To make it easier to taper and split the dose?  How long were you planning to taper these last mgs?  I'm so sorry that you are suffering, especially after such short term use.  I can understand so much of where you are at.  Lack of sleep on it's own is enough to make one have a really hard time.  Good news is that lack of sleep is not unsafe on it's own and eventually, it should get better for you over time.  You have probably already tried some of the things to aid in sleep naturally (warm baths, no computer) but if not, maybe those would help.  I would NOT recommend a detox, though, if you can avoid.  I can only say that if it were me, I would be trying to break up the dose again to see if that helped.  If not, I would perhaps ask for a beta blocker for the heart palps and to help sleep.  If that didn't work, I would perhaps start looking at some of the over the counter things, like Unisom.  This is just me - some people want nothing and I can understand that too. 

 

Pamster,

We constantly learn from each other!  Thanks for all you do here!!

[[Je...]]

kitsune556,

Thanks for the response. I followed the Ashton crossover schedule and was off of Klonopin after 5 weeks.

Regards.

Jetson

[[ta...]]

Momof7babes

Thank you for your support. Pamster, you always as well. Im very proficient with the scale and feel comfy using it until the end. I just have a number I reduce from (anywhere from .004-.001) I was hoping to finish these last 2.5mg in 3 months, best case scenario. Not sure if that even possible considering how badly I feel today. Im so discouraged. Maybe I will try back split dose or at least move it to night. I cannot thank you enough. Im so freaking scared on these bad days.

[Guest [bl...]]

Hi Hoops!

 

I am trying to take off 0.1 mgs when I feel ok. I don’t look at the calendar or anything, just do it based off how I feel. I am at 0.24 mgs today and feel pretty good so will go down to 0.23mgs tonight. I am able to do this with liquid that I have compounded. Let me know if you have any more questions! Happy to help and hope everyone else is doing well

[[4G...]]

tapersupport, I see you say that you are trying to cut 2.5mg in 3 months. I am trying to cut 3.5mg in almost four months because of what the doctor has told me. She will not prescribe after that. Fortunately, I have saved up over 250mg of Valium because I cut to 4mg and didn't tell her, so she was giving me these for quite a long time. So I am seeing that as my cushion.

 

I was wondering if you wanted to compare notes as we went along, as we are in a similar situation.

Gilly xx

[[Gr...]]

Tapersupport,

 

I am going to share something that helped me and if it doesn't help you, feel free to throw it out! I know that what helps one person doesn't necessarily help another. But for me what has helped is that my psychiatrist has helped me to understand that I have a really high desire for certainty, and that in order for me to get through this taper I have to learn how to embrace a certain level of uncertainty. That advice has been really helpful but also has been really challenging for me as well. I am a highly anxious person, and I like to be really certain that I am making the "right decisions". So I will analyze over and over and try to figure out what the best path is. But one thing I'm learning with this taper is that unfortunately there is just no way to know what the right path is. I mean, we can get information and educate ourselves and listen to people who have experienced it, but at the end of the day we have no way of knowing how a certain decision is going to work out. So at some point we just decide to try something and see what happens. Knowing that it's not a permanent course and that adjustments can be constantly made based on what we learn from our decisions. So, in your case for example, what I would suggest is that you could try to switch your dose to the PM and see what happens. If it seems to work out well, then keep it. If it doesn't work out, then try splitting your doses again like they were and see what happens then. I guess I just want you to feel less worried about your decision and know that it's okay to try things and see how they work. If you're like me, you might get stuck in indecision for so long that it makes everything worse. And I also empathize with you about how much harder it is to make decisions when you're feeling awful. I am like you in that if I don't get sleep I feel absolutely terrible and have an even harder time thinking clearly and making decisions. Anyways, I hope that helps. I wish you the best.

 

Grace

[[Pa...]]

Tapersupport,

 

I am going to share something that helped me and if it doesn't help you, feel free to throw it out! I know that what helps one person doesn't necessarily help another. But for me what has helped is that my psychiatrist has helped me to understand that I have a really high desire for certainty, and that in order for me to get through this taper I have to learn how to embrace a certain level of uncertainty. That advice has been really helpful but also has been really challenging for me as well. I am a highly anxious person, and I like to be really certain that I am making the "right decisions". So I will analyze over and over and try to figure out what the best path is. But one thing I'm learning with this taper is that unfortunately there is just no way to know what the right path is. I mean, we can get information and educate ourselves and listen to people who have experienced it, but at the end of the day we have no way of knowing how a certain decision is going to work out. So at some point we just decide to try something and see what happens. Knowing that it's not a permanent course and that adjustments can be constantly made based on what we learn from our decisions. So, in your case for example, what I would suggest is that you could try to switch your dose to the PM and see what happens. If it seems to work out well, then keep it. If it doesn't work out, then try splitting your doses again like they were and see what happens then. I guess I just want you to feel less worried about your decision and know that it's okay to try things and see how they work. If you're like me, you might get stuck in indecision for so long that it makes everything worse. And I also empathize with you about how much harder it is to make decisions when you're feeling awful. I am like you in that if I don't get sleep I feel absolutely terrible and have an even harder time thinking clearly and making decisions. Anyways, I hope that helps. I wish you the best.

 

Grace

 

Thanks for sharing this, I hope you don't mind but I plan to steal parts of it and pass it off as my own, its such great advice. 

[[ta...]]

Thank y’all so very much. Of COURSE I appreciate and savor all the advice anyone has. Gilly would be fine sharing notes. Grace, you are so right. I decided to just leave it for now and feel fine with that (for now). Since Im 3 weeks into consolidated dose, that is long enough to stick with it. My intuitive feeling is Im going to have a paradoxical effect in PM and will still wake up like did on split doses.

What Im realizing today is that whether I do a cut OR microtaper, Im getting hit like crazy with waves of w/d days. Horrible Sat, ok yesterday, terrible today. At least point does it even matter how I go down if the reactions are so bad either way? It is days like today that I feel like the v trying to kill me on it, trying to kill mr getting off it, and if were to try some alternative detox method the other meds would kill me. I gotta get off these 2.5mg, and Im seeing no light. Trying a Benzo w/d coach on Wed.

[[jo...]]

Momof7babes, or anyone else who had dosed 3xdaily using both pills and liquid during their taper.

 

Momof7.

I noticed in your signature that before you switched to all liquid valium you were dosing 3 x a day using pills and liquid. May I ask what was your dosing schedule and how did you divide the pills and liquid up during the three doses?

 

I ask because after my Dr. updosed me to 6mg daily after my 1st failed attempt to taper, he changed me from dosing 2x a day to 3x a day (2mg morning, 2mg afternoon and 2mg evening...all pills as of now). When I was dosing twice a day, I tapered using pills and homebrew liquid made from pills using the vodka-water method and tried to keep both daily doses a equal as possible within 1mg of each other. I always only used 1mg in liquid form and the rest in pill form. I am still stabilizing on the 6mg, but hope to be tapering again soon. I tried to switch over to Rx liquid just for the convenience, but after about 2-3 weeks of taking it is when I had my fallout. I guess my body didn't like the Rx liquid form of valium, so I am planning on going back to the homebrew when I start tapering again. Right now my mind is having difficulty devising a taper plan which consist of 3xdaily dosing using both pills and liquid. Any insight or suggestions from your experience with pills and liquid, or anyone else, would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks to all for the support and I am getting close to climbing back on that taper horse again, hopefully with better results this time.

JoJo

[[Mo...]]

Hi Jojo,

Yeah, I believe I tapered .5mg at a time at that point on each dose.  There are various ways you really could do it.  You could just taper one dose down by .5mg and then the next and then the final dose.  This is what I do now but I just do it by .1mg.  It helps me more with my math because I have everything on a spreadsheet and I cross it off.  If I recall how I did it at where you are..... Dose 1 would be 1mg in pill (1/2 a pill one day and then the other half the next), the other 1mg in liquid, which I would then decrease down to .5 over a period of time.  Meanwhile, I would keep the other 2 doses at 2 mg in pill.  After Dose 1 gets to 1.5 mg, then I would work on cutting the next dose so here's how it would go.  Dose 1 - 1mg pill, .5mg liquid; Dose 2 - 1mg pill (other half), 1mg liquid (decreasing over time); Dose 3 - 2mg pill.  Then I would work on cutting Dose 3. The doses are uneven but I didn't notice it.  In order to get used to more liquid over time, I would also slowly switch out more pill to liquid in a similar sort of fashion until I was at all liquid on 3mg.  I honestly just found the liquid to be better for me but I know that's not the case with some.

[[jo...]]

Hi Jojo,

Yeah, I believe I tapered .5mg at a time at that point on each dose.  There are various ways you really could do it.  You could just taper one dose down by .5mg and then the next and then the final dose.  This is what I do now but I just do it by .1mg.  It helps me more with my math because I have everything on a spreadsheet and I cross it off.  If I recall how I did it at where you are..... Dose 1 would be 1mg in pill (1/2 a pill one day and then the other half the next), the other 1mg in liquid, which I would then decrease down to .5 over a period of time.  Meanwhile, I would keep the other 2 doses at 2 mg in pill.  After Dose 1 gets to 1.5 mg, then I would work on cutting the next dose so here's how it would go.  Dose 1 - 1mg pill, .5mg liquid; Dose 2 - 1mg pill (other half), 1mg liquid (decreasing over time); Dose 3 - 2mg pill.  Then I would work on cutting Dose 3. The doses are uneven but I didn't notice it.  In order to get used to more liquid over time, I would also slowly switch out more pill to liquid in a similar sort of fashion until I was at all liquid on 3mg.  I honestly just found the liquid to be better for me but I know that's not the case with some.

Thanks for the reply Momof7.

That sounds like a pretty good taper plan using pills and liquid. I would like to go back to 2xdaily dosing just for the convenience, but I realize that may not be possible even though some say twice a day valium is all that is needed because of the long half life. I have fallen into the trap that so many other have of watching the clock for my next dose, because I sometimes have interdose w/d now at 3xdaily, where I never had them at 2xdaily (strange)

 

I wish the Rx liquid would have worked for me, it would have made thing a lot easier in mixing dosing solutions. I have went over and over it in my head and looked back through my notes to see what I could have done wrong when I tried to switch to Rx liquid, but I could not find any mistakes. The weird thing is that I was at 3.4mg, I believe, when I only switched out the .4mg of the dose to Rx liquid while still taking the rest of the dose in pills and even held there for a while. But all hell broke loose anyway, which put me in the situation I find myself now. Who knows, it may not have been the Rx liquid at all, but something that had been building for a while and finally exploded.

 

I am at week 6 of holding at 6mg a day and I am feeling better. I am eager to start tapering again, but I am also afraid to start too soon. It's hard for me to convince myself of when I am ready to taper again, because of fear of another crash. I am just in a place of indecision right now, which is mostly driven by fear.

Thanks you again for all your support with this group,

Jo

[[ho...]]

Hi BB’s-  I know I just disappeared....I came back last night and posted somewhere else and lurked here ( went back to catch up) and got pulled away.

 

I finally got my liquid V and did my second dose last night.  All is ok for now.  I have been holding at 10, and at first in the hold I was feeling much better.  And I guess over all the benzo flu did not return, but I still don’t feel good.  Most days I am still on the couch and do very little.  It is so frustrating. 

 

The plan is to do the liquid for another 3 nights and then begin my micro taper....I already don’t feel well, so I am just going to proceed.  If I get really bad again, I will just hold again.

 

I’m going to try and stay more engaged for my mental health....I find myself withdrawing, and I know that isn’t good.

 

Marie

[[Pa...]]

I’m going to try and stay more engaged for my mental health....I find myself withdrawing, and I know that isn’t good.

 

Marie

Good for you for recognizing what was happening and taking steps to combat it. 

[[ho...]]

Pamster - Thank you    I do recognize it....I recognize a lot of things....it’s about taking action now.

[[Wo...]]

Hey,

 

I hope I'm posting on the right place. I'm wondering if anyone tried to crossover to valium at a higher dose (30mg) and didn't manage it bit then tried again later at a lower dose and had more success?

 

I tired the Ashton crossover from 3mg Lorazepam last May and failed miserably. I took my time but became incredibly depressed and suicidal so went back to 3mg Lorazepam.

 

I have recently hit the 1mg mark after following a Daily liquid micro taper. It's been tough but bearable. But not I feel absolutely crappy. The withdrawals are hitting hard and I am almost immobile. I am considering crossing over to valium again.

 

Has anyone had a similar experience? I currently dose 3 times a day. How would the crossover work out to valium?

 

Thanks in advance for reading

xxx

[[ki...]]

Working, I crossed over from 1 mg Klonopin to 20 mg Valium and found it very depressing and sedating, but as I tapered down it lessened significantly. I tapered down from 20 to 8 mg in 4-5 months and by then the depression was very minimal. It might be worth looking into. I would encourage you to hold your dose of Ativan at 1 mg for a little while first so you can hopefully stabilize and make the crossover more easily.

[[ho...]]

Hi - I also had a horrible C/O to 20 mg of V, but I did not follow the Ashton protocol so I think I caused a lot of my own hell.  I remember laying there wanting to die ( I wasn’t suicidal, but I was ok if I didn’t wake up  :'() but then I kept thinking about my kids and my partner and family and that I knew it had to get better at some point.....and it did.

 

I agree with the holding for a while to stabilize since you’re already feeling so bad.  Then do the C/O very slowly......all you can do is “try”. 

 

Marie 

[[ra...]]

Hullo- (am new to BB and this forum so forgive please if this post is out of place).

I'm to start a taper with cross over using Ashton's schedule as a guide from 1.5 daily clonazepam to diazepam and then taper from there. My question is about depression that I've read accompanies diazepam but CAN diminish. Can anyone here tell me their experience with this? thanks, Rascal

[[Ma...]]

Hullo- (am new to BB and this forum so forgive please if this post is out of place).

I'm to start a taper with cross over using Ashton's schedule as a guide from 1.5 daily clonazepam to diazepam and then taper from there. My question is about depression that I've read accompanies diazepam but CAN diminish. Can anyone here tell me their experience with this? thanks, Rascal

 

I didn't really have depression, it really sedated me though and took a long while before that went away.  I do know lots of people it has caused depression though, some came through that pretty quickly, others didn't.  Everyone reacts differently.  Some more people will be on to tell you their story.  Sometimes on the weekend, it can be slow.  Good luck!!

 

[[ra...]]

thanks for your reply (it's also helpful to hear weekends can be slow- had no idea!). When you say the sedation lasted a long time, do you mean hours, weeks, or is it hard to quantify?  Rascal

[[Ma...]]

thanks for your reply (it's also helpful to hear weekends can be slow- had no idea!). When you say the sedation lasted a long time, do you mean hours, weeks, or is it hard to quantify?  Rascal

 

No, the sedation was months for me.  I could hardly hold my head up.  Part of it was my fault for tapering too fast.  My best advice to everyone, is start out slow, if you feel well, you can always speed up.  . Valium is different than most benzo's.  It has 3 metabolites, all with different half lives. 

1.  Muscles 2. Sleep 3. Anxiety.....so give your brain and central nervous system an opportunity to stabilize before moving forward.  You won't know how you are going to do until you try.  Everything about benzo's is different for most of us.  Some people adapt to Valium quickly, others struggle.  That's why I recommend starting slow.   

[[ho...]]

thanks for your reply (it's also helpful to hear weekends can be slow- had no idea!). When you say the sedation lasted a long time, do you mean hours, weeks, or is it hard to quantify?  Rascal

 

 

Hi -  I didn’t have any sedation from it...and I didn’t get depression either.  I just got severe w/d SX from c/o too fast.  But once I started to stabilize it was ok.  I have recently been on a hold (today is day 27) and I am feeling pretty good.  I don’t find the V sedating at all.  I will resume my taper tonight with DLMT.

 

Marie

[[jo...]]

Looking for help or opinions to a question??

 

Yesterday started the 7th week since I hit the BIG WALL and was up dosed by my Dr. to 6mg a day from 3.32mg a day. I am starting to feel a little better, but not quite yet stabilized...or I should say not feeling as well as I did before the crash. I have decided to hold and give it a bit more time before I start tapering again.

 

When I first started tapering at 15mg, I only dosed twice a day evenly for the first 18 months that I tapered down to the 3.32mg. I really never had any problems or inter dose w/d while dosing twice a day until I hit the wall. When my Dr. upped my dose to 6mg 7 weeks ago, he switched me to three x a day even dosing (2mg, 2mg, and 2mg). He just wanted to try it for a few weeks, but said after that he would leave it up to me if I dosed 2 or 3 times daily depending on what I felt was best. Well I have been dosing 3x daily since the up-dose to 6mg over weeks weeks ago, and I really don't feel much better and my daily sedation feels like it did from all the way back at beginning when I was taking 15mg a day and could barley hold my head up. I'm sure some of you remember that sedating feeling before it got better as we got lower on our daily doses.

 

I'm curious if the new extreme sedation could be due to dosing 3x daily instead of twice daily like I had gotten use to for 18 months. I wouldn't think it would be from up-dosing less than 3mg, but I just don't know?? I would like to try to go back to splitting my dose evenly to twice a day like I originally did to see if it would help my overall daily s/x and the new terrible sedation that has came back so strongly, but at the same time I am also frightened that it could make thing worse again. That was a living hell I just came out of and I don't want to go back any sooner than I have to. I know some of you dose 3x a day or more, and others feel that twice a day is sufficient due to the long half life of valium as I did.

 

So there is my story, dilemma, and questions.

What are your opinions and suggestions, because I am lost right now and afraid to move forward without a plan. I thought I had a good taper plan that was working until it all came crashing down suddenly one day and now everyday is filled with fear of making another unknown mistake. I am just so indecisive now???

As always, I am so grateful for the support of this group. I wouldn't have made it this far without your help.

Jo

 

 

[[ho...]]

Hi Jo-  I only dose once a day and that is at nights.  I started out twice a day and removed my daytime dose first.  Now I am just reducing my night time dose.  I never had the sedating feeling during the daytime, but that was just me.

 

I hope you can find what will work best for you 

 

Marie